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A question for Italian Americans and Irish America #929024
02/10/18 01:09 PM
02/10/18 01:09 PM
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sbhc Offline OP
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Why do these people hold on to their heritage so strongly. People 4 or 5 generations deep still saying that they're Irish or Italian?

I'm from Ireland and Irish Americans are laughed at over here, we call them Plastic Paddys. The come over here talking about their families and their homeland. For instace my last name is O'Connor and I had a yank woman ove here one day telling that we're related because she had the same surname.

I've heard that deep generation Italian Americans are known as wonderbread wops in the States.

Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929030
02/10/18 02:08 PM
02/10/18 02:08 PM
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No. Virginia
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I think you're generalizing about people on both sides of the Atlantic. You might find it more productive to identify and work on your own shortcomings, instead of the faults of stereotypes you carry around in your head.

Last edited by mustachepete; 02/10/18 02:09 PM.

"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: mustachepete] #929034
02/10/18 02:34 PM
02/10/18 02:34 PM
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sbhc Offline OP
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No that's what people think in Ireland.

I'm sure that real Italians also laugh their arses about 3rd and fourth gen Italian Americans in the States.


You're Americans, be proud of that, it's a great country.

Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929037
02/10/18 02:39 PM
02/10/18 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mustachepete
I think you're generalizing about people on both sides of the Atlantic. You might find it more productive to identify and work on your own shortcomings, instead of the faults of stereotypes you carry around in your head.


Very well said.


Originally Posted by sbhc
No that's what people think in Ireland.

I'm sure that real Italians also laugh their arses about 3rd and fourth gen Italian Americans in the States.


You're Americans, be proud of that, it's a great country.


Thank you.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929038
02/10/18 03:09 PM
02/10/18 03:09 PM
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n.e.philly
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Originally Posted by sbhc
No that's what people think in Ireland.

I'm sure that real Italians also laugh their arses about 3rd and fourth gen Italian Americans in the States.


You're Americans, be proud of that, it's a great country.

I asked u in another thread, maybe u did not see it..but my parents r from Donegal & Mayo,, where are u from that these "KNACKERS' were originated from??


I didn't want to leave blood on your carpet...
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929042
02/10/18 03:31 PM
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I cant speak for the irish but i do know there are countless people who try and claim they are Italian when in fact they are not.
There is something about being italian that is very alluring to many people. Its a great heritage as far as history, food, wine, theater, inventions, architecture, clothing, the people themselves, and the country itself is beautiful. I never heard one guy claim he was polish when he wasnt. Lol

Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: mustachepete] #929044
02/10/18 03:38 PM
02/10/18 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mustachepete
I think you're generalizing about people on both sides of the Atlantic. You might find it more productive to identify and work on your own shortcomings, instead of the faults of stereotypes you carry around in your head.


I agree.

I'm 2nd generation Italian and very proud of that. Growing up in Pittsburgh I learned some Italian, but as an adult I've taught myself even more Italian. I even changed my last name back to the original Italian spelling.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929046
02/10/18 03:43 PM
02/10/18 03:43 PM
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There are a lot of Italians who want to be black.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: OakAsFan] #929088
02/10/18 09:40 PM
02/10/18 09:40 PM
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America is a nation of immigrants, but it was always a country that valued and emphasized assimilation. Into the Sixties most Americans de-emphasized their ethnic backgrounds--even Americanizing their last names to avoid being labeled Italian, Irish, Jewish, etc. Look at Hollywood movies from the beginnings into the Sixties--all the actors and actresses used "all-American" names.

The civil rights movement in the Sixties started the trend toward identifying, and emphasizing, national and/or ethnic origin, and taking pride in it. Started with blacks, then became a national trend.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929092
02/10/18 09:55 PM
02/10/18 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sbhc
Why do these people hold on to their heritage so strongly. People 4 or 5 generations deep still saying that they're Irish or Italian?

I'm from Ireland and Irish Americans are laughed at over here, we call them Plastic Paddys. The come over here talking about their families and their homeland. For instace my last name is O'Connor and I had a yank woman ove here one day telling that we're related because she had the same surname.

I've heard that deep generation Italian Americans are known as wonderbread wops in the States.


I am not even a hundred percent Italian my dear departed father was not Italian. So why do I consider myself Italian. Come from an Italian neighborhood here. Italian Harlem had no friends who were not Italian. I guess that’s why.


only the unloved hate
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929095
02/10/18 11:11 PM
02/10/18 11:11 PM
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Where did assimilation get black people? Segregation in the south, housing discrimination, district redlining in the north. It wasn't until black people began to identify as black first, American second, that they got federal laws passed making racial discrimination illegal nationwide.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: OakAsFan] #929097
02/10/18 11:29 PM
02/10/18 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Where did assimilation get black people? Segregation in the south, housing discrimination, district redlining in the north. It wasn't until black people began to identify as black first, American second, that they got federal laws passed making racial discrimination illegal nationwide.


Federal civil rights acts of 1866, 1870, and 1875 as well as the 14th Amendment in 1868.

Last edited by olivant; 02/10/18 11:31 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929098
02/10/18 11:32 PM
02/10/18 11:32 PM
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Those laws weren't enough, Olivant. Segregation and housing discrimination was rampant through the early 1960s.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929103
02/11/18 12:49 AM
02/11/18 12:49 AM
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“It wasn't until black people began to identify as black first, American second, that they got federal laws passed making racial discrimination illegal nationwide.”

By now they should be declaring themselves american first and black second. I would imagine a lot of blacks would be offended by your statement. Particularly those that educated themselves and made better lives for their families as well as those that serve in our armed forces. Claiming they are black first is basically inflicting segregation on themselves.

Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: Belmont] #929104
02/11/18 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Belmont
By now they should be declaring themselves american first and black second.


You mean, now that we have a president who believes there should be due process for men accused of abusing women, but not for black suspects like the Central Park 5, who Trump to this day believes are guilty despite their convictions being overturned? This is probably a time for black Americans to be even more vigilant, along with anyone else who isn't a conservative white male.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929134
02/11/18 12:11 PM
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There are more than enough laws on the books to protect those from discrimination. The black comminity needs to step up as a whole and fix their own self inflicted issues that are 99% of the reason for their low standing on the economic and social totem pole. The chinese come from extremely poor area’s in china and come here with nothing yet their children thrive and their neighborhoods are very safe.
The issues within the black community have nothing to do with president trump making a comment. The sooner people admit the truth and take action, the sooner the black community can lift itself up. Its not going to ever happen without blaming themselves first.

Last edited by Belmont; 02/11/18 12:16 PM.
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929136
02/11/18 12:26 PM
02/11/18 12:26 PM
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There are more red haired people in Scotland, England and Wales than there is in Ireland but guess what country gets the pejorative stereotype?

Prince Harry and Margaret Thatcher have red hair for fuck sake. Name one Irish celebrity apart from the Gleeson acting family who have red hair.

"Black Irish"

There are the same amount of people with dark hair in Ireland as there is in the UK, Scandinavia, Germany, Netherlands, Austria and the Slavic countries. There is significantly more in France but that's because they've had centuries of immigration and intermarrying between Spaniards, Africans etc. - so a dumb colloquialism.

"Scotch Irish"

What people who emigrated to America from Ulster are called for some reason. They're just Irish not Scottish. If they're "Scotch Irish" then Gerard Butler and Sean Connery are "Irish Scottish" since they have Irish ancestry and George Harrison, Paul McCartney and John Lennon are "Irish English" since they have Irish ancestry - so another dumb colloquialism.

It's amazing how much racist slang still remains to this day; "Paddywagon", "Black Irish" etc. etc.

Rant over.


In my thoughts, I use the technique of positive visualization.
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929142
02/11/18 01:52 PM
02/11/18 01:52 PM
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There is certainly an issue with self reliance and accountability in this country. This is why poor white people need to address the problems in their community, like joblessness and opiate addiction. They're waiting on President Trump to come flying in with a cape. They have to do it themselves. They have to stop using opiates. They have to take any job they can get, not just wait for the next lucrative construction job or plum office job to land on their lap. They have to stop blaming immigrants, who are taking those less than desirable jobs, because they understand that you have to start somewhere. They have to compete with the immigrants, which won't be easy, because immigrants have been raised with a better work ethic and sense of responsibility than them. They need to grab themselves by the bootstraps. Donald Trump does not care about them. He only used them to get into the white house. They have to do it themselves.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: Moe_Tilden] #929147
02/11/18 02:08 PM
02/11/18 02:08 PM
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n.e.philly
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Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
There are more red haired people in Scotland, England and Wales than there is in Ireland but guess what country gets the pejorative stereotype?

Prince Harry and Margaret Thatcher have red hair for fuck sake. Name one Irish celebrity apart from the Gleeson acting family who have red hair.

"Black Irish"

There are the same amount of people with dark hair in Ireland as there is in the UK, Scandinavia, Germany, Netherlands, Austria and the Slavic countries. There is significantly more in France but that's because they've had centuries of immigration and intermarrying between Spaniards, Africans etc. - so a dumb colloquialism.

"Scotch Irish"

What people who emigrated to America from Ulster are called for some reason. They're just Irish not Scottish. If they're "Scotch Irish" then Gerard Butler and Sean Connery are "Irish Scottish" since they have Irish ancestry and George Harrison, Paul McCartney and John Lennon are "Irish English" since they have Irish ancestry - so another dumb colloquialism.

It's amazing how much racist slang still remains to this day; "Paddywagon", "Black Irish" etc. etc.

Rant over.


Maureen O Hara..


I didn't want to leave blood on your carpet...
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929149
02/11/18 02:31 PM
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Gimme a break Oakasfan.. lets be real. Where is all the violent crime in the poor white neighborhoods? It doesnt exist.
The majority of poor whites actually work and actively seek work thus attmepting to make their lives better. Your comparison is nonsensical and without merit which you already know.

Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929153
02/11/18 02:58 PM
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Unemployment and "underemployment" are problems in the white community. Trump made this a major part of his campaign, especially on stops in the rust belt. A lot of these poor white people voted for Trump thinking that he cares about them, when he obviously doesn't. Trump cares about his family, his wealthy friends, and obviously, Russia. To add insult to injury, a lot of these poor whites have taken to opiates, and now Trump is promising to address this issue, which he won't. Poor whites have to take accountability for their own behavior, and improve their own lives. They're waiting on Trump to "make America great again". That train's never coming.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929172
02/11/18 05:46 PM
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Trump is helping the rust belt in a big way and he has only been in office for a year. They had a democratic congresswoman .on tv from Ohio yesterday and she called Nacy Pelosi’s assertions that the trump tax plan isnt helping the middle class ridiculous and untrue. She also took offense of Pelosi and the democratic elite saying the 1000 dollar bonuses given by many companies is a small amount. She said $1000 is a lot of money in Ohio although maybe its not much in SanFransisco where Pelosi lives. This lady is a democrat. Goes to show that pelosi doesnt have a clue, not to mention Maxime Watters who is nothing more than a wannabe entertainer.
This guy is creating a lot of middle class jobs in the rust belt and raising wages. This guy is a machine for everyone both black and white.

Last edited by Belmont; 02/11/18 05:48 PM.
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929179
02/11/18 06:46 PM
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Donald Trump has not created one single middle class job, and never will.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: OakAsFan] #929305
02/12/18 11:21 PM
02/12/18 11:21 PM
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n.e.philly
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Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Donald Trump has not created one single middle class job, and never will.

Oak...ur a good guy,but w/no disrespect,,where I live in N.E. Philly ,there are more job openings than ever,,my 22 yr. old cousin, w/ a little side training from me has secured a good union job as a butcher in a KOSHER meat shop that is very lucrative w/ benefits & that has been around for many yrs. Kosher meats is no joke, as there are a lot of restrictions,He had 2 take prelimanary classes as well....Now ,if that is not mid class ,,I dont know what is..$32.00 an hour isnt bad.


I didn't want to leave blood on your carpet...
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929366
02/13/18 02:19 PM
02/13/18 02:19 PM
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The Italian Stallionette Offline
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My family and relatives were ALL proud of our heritage. It's been very special to all of us, knowing where we came from, and our family's history. My father, tho came here very young, was born in Trapani, Sicily and both sets of grandparents born/raised in Sicily. We were brought up and raised to have pride in our heritage. Some times I think about by grandparents/father coming to America and imagine how scary it must have been, not knowing the language, coming to a strange land. It took much courage. As a matter of fact, every time I see the scene from GFII with young Vito on the ship passing Statue of Liberty, and I see the looks of fear, awe on the passengers faces, I always assume that could be my grandparents/father at the time they came.

FWIW, years ago I found and ordered the ship manifests of my grandparents/father from 1921 on Ellis Island site. Their ship was named the "Regina Italia." Yea, I'm proud of my heritage. It's a part of me.



TIS


"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK

"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon

Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: The Italian Stallionette] #929370
02/13/18 02:32 PM
02/13/18 02:32 PM
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olivant Offline
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TIS, to reiterate a phrase from my college years: Right On!


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: OakAsFan] #929374
02/13/18 02:58 PM
02/13/18 02:58 PM
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Footreads Offline
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Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Donald Trump has not created one single middle class job, and never will.



President does not creat jobs puting tax laws in place that promote new jobs and middle class jobs does that. He has done that like crazy.

Right now the intrastructure money and workinfpg with the private sector will be creating middle class jobs for thousands. The training done by the private sector, community colleges in building.

The only thing they can teach is not fearing high places and breaking their behind heavy lifting 12 hours a day 6 or 7 days aweek



only the unloved hate
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: olivant] #929376
02/13/18 03:08 PM
02/13/18 03:08 PM
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The Italian Stallionette Offline
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Originally Posted by olivant
TIS, to reiterate a phrase from my college years: Right On!



AND far out and groovy!!!!! LOL How ya doing Oli???



TIS


"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK

"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon

Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: sbhc] #929377
02/13/18 03:13 PM
02/13/18 03:13 PM
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A lot of immigrants changed their names when they got here in order to get work easier. My best friends father changed his name Guglielmo to Williams.

My father’s father a non Italian changed his name from a German name to an Americanized name.

The worst was when my soccer club changed their name from the Brooklyn Italians to the Brooklyn dodgers. Then we won another open cup and people still don’t know we won it under a different name.


only the unloved hate
Re: A question for Italian Americans and Irish America [Re: The Italian Stallionette] #929381
02/13/18 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by The Italian Stallionette
Originally Posted by olivant
TIS, to reiterate a phrase from my college years: Right On!



AND far out and groovy!!!!! LOL How ya doing Oli???



TIS


Pretty good TIS. You know, as has been already lamented, you and I and so many of the ancient Board members don't post much anymore. I guess I always will when the spirit moves me, but it's just not like the halcion days of a just a few years ago.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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