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Was there any point in wasting money on counsel- #923175
11/15/17 04:43 PM
11/15/17 04:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 863
Uk
T
Tonytough Offline OP
ba da bing
Tonytough  Offline OP
ba da bing
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 863
Uk
Other than Gotti sr’s 4th trial, can u name any other fixed trials. And when I say fixed, as in the court/ judge was going out their way to secure a conviction and ensure an “unfair” trial

Take Gotti for example, they bounced his lawyers Cutler/ Shargel pre trial. that was telling in itself for what was to come. Sammy flipped and prior to that, the Cirelli tapes were played so both Gotti, Sammy & possibly Frankie knew they were doomed from the get go. Later on witnesses were “bounced”, ie tape experts were not allowed to testify for defence and they only allowed a tax accountant.

In John Jr’s book he said he was in charge of paying the lawyers and his dad spent 2milllion- 1 mil was what was Albert Kreiger charged and another mil was spent on investigators

I know one would say your fighting for your life here and of course it makes sense to spend on lawyers BUT like I said above, the trial was fixed from start. Whether it was a 1k lawyer or 1m lawyer, the result was predetermined

Wouldn’t it be better to save your 2 million which was a lot of money 20 yrs ago.

Re: Was there any point in wasting money on counsel- [Re: Tonytough] #923178
11/15/17 06:45 PM
11/15/17 06:45 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,371
L
Lou_Para Online content
Underboss
Lou_Para  Online Content
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Posts: 1,371
I wouldn't say it was an unfair trial,but when Capone was convicted of Income Tax evasion,the judge gave him 11 years.
That sentence was way out of line for the crime. I would say that this was a chance for the Gov't to punish him for at least some of the other crimes that they couldn't prove.

Re: Was there any point in wasting money on counsel- [Re: Lou_Para] #923246
11/16/17 11:42 PM
11/16/17 11:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,505
AZ
The whole system of criminal trial law is tilted toward the prosecution. You know the story: They don't want trials. If you agree to take a plea bargain, your sentence is reduced. If you assert your right to a trial, they throw the book at you. In the city where I live, a defendant, after indictment but before a trial, is called before the judge who will actually hear the case and hand down the sentence. The judge will explain to the defendant what kind of sentence he'd be looking at if he took a plea vs. what that judge "might" hand down if he went to trial and were convicted. Pretty intimidating, don't you think?

Not that I have any sympathy for Gotti--he got an acquittal in one of his big felony trials by bribing a juror.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Was there any point in wasting money on counsel- [Re: Tonytough] #923248
11/17/17 01:25 AM
11/17/17 01:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 905
blueracing347 Offline
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blueracing347  Offline
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Posts: 905
Not a fan of the Gotti's, but they went after jr four times bc of mistrials and he eventually took the plea deal. Now you have this asshole from NJ gets a mistrial and they're thinking of not going back to trial. The whole system is rigged. If you can buy a juror and change a witnesses mind more power to you.

Re: Was there any point in wasting money on counsel- [Re: Tonytough] #923257
11/17/17 05:34 AM
11/17/17 05:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 905
blueracing347 Offline
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blueracing347  Offline
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Posts: 905
Also, I love when you're innocent and the cops tell you to tell it to the judge. Telling things to the judge usually requires a lawyer which costs money. Minorities aren't the only ones getting Fucked by the law.

Re: Was there any point in wasting money on counsel- [Re: Tonytough] #923262
11/17/17 08:58 AM
11/17/17 08:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
Ted Offline
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Ted  Offline
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Posts: 1,113
For the amount of money Gotti paid in retainer fees, you better believe he is going to use him at every trial. Also if your going to rig a trial, it's better to have a lawyer you trust by your side.


"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
Re: Was there any point in wasting money on counsel- [Re: Turnbull] #923276
11/17/17 01:16 PM
11/17/17 01:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 889
North Jersey
ItalianIrishMix Offline
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ItalianIrishMix  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 889
North Jersey
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
The whole system of criminal trial law is tilted toward the prosecution. You know the story: They don't want trials. If you agree to take a plea bargain, your sentence is reduced. If you assert your right to a trial, they throw the book at you. In the city where I live, a defendant, after indictment but before a trial, is called before the judge who will actually hear the case and hand down the sentence. The judge will explain to the defendant what kind of sentence he'd be looking at if he took a plea vs. what that judge "might" hand down if he went to trial and were convicted. Pretty intimidating, don't you think?

Not that I have any sympathy for Gotti--he got an acquittal in one of his big felony trials by bribing a juror.


Imagine what chaos there would be if EVERYONE at a local court said NOT GUILTY, let's all dance at trials?

Re: Was there any point in wasting money on counsel- [Re: Tonytough] #923405
11/19/17 12:16 AM
11/19/17 12:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 865
M
MightyDR Offline
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MightyDR  Offline
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Posts: 865
The smart move, since they had him talking about murder on tape, would be to plead guilty. But Gotti had a huge ego and was apparently against guilty pleas at that time. So if you're going to fight those kind of charges at trial, you would need a great lawyer and that usually costs lots of money.

Re: Was there any point in wasting money on counsel- [Re: Tonytough] #923408
11/19/17 08:46 AM
11/19/17 08:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians
Moe_Tilden  Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
He got to a juror, he threatened other jurors families, he got to a witness (Romuel Piecyk). How the hell was he hard done by? They had him dead to rights. It's not their fault he had no tact or subtlety.



I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.

Moderated by  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

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