This is a question for Toodoped or anyother experts on the Chicago outfit.How did Tony Accardo leap frog Tony Capiezo when they joined the outfit especially since Capiezo was older and outranked him when they were both in the circus cafe gang?

Thats one helluva question which brings out the most confusing time period 1930s regarding the Outfits hirearchy. Both Capezio and Accardo belonged to the Elmwood Park crew and I personally believe that neither of them were at the top of the group during that decade. It couldve been someone else such as Frank Maritote or maybe even Vincent Benevento or possibly even Lawrence Mangano, the so-called king of the west side and onetime capo of Taylor St since the Outfit was known for sharing many territories. But Im positive that during the 1940s when Maritote went to jail and Mangano got himself killed, C Fischetti (top boss of a ruling panel at the time) and Capezio (member of that same ruling panel) groomed Accardo for the top position. How that happened I really cant tell. Maybe Accardo was more of a business type rather than Capezio or maybe the oldtimer wanted to stay in the shadows. Im.not sure if you kow this but I personally believe that during the early 50s or after the meat scandal, Capezio replaced Accardo as chief executive under Campagna and Ricca

I am by no means an expert on any of the families, especially The Outfit.....Seems like they have so many mini bosses.

Only theory I can add is since Capone was the top dog in the early 30's, maybe the Joe Batters incident earned him favor with the boss, which allowed an undeserved cut to the front of the line. I also do not believe that once a boss steps down, that he still doesn't hold sway in certain decisions. Capone didn't lose his mind/life till the 40's.

How the heck did Thomas Bilotti go from driver to Underboss? LOL

They always had a top boss and beneath him there was the whole known hirearchy boss underboss capos. The capos in Chicago controlled larger territories than the usual and they also acted as overseers in different territories or cities. Some of them werent even capos but instead simple overseers of certain areas. After the 1940s there were two top bosses who by law enforcement were considered as semi-retired bosses who took the advising role. When Ricca died in 1972 they were back to just one. Also the top bosses were often reffered to by their underlings as The Man or The Old Man

Capezio was an enforcer, while Accardo was an earner and leader. That's how Accardo leap-frogged him. Capezio was in charge of the Outfit's hits and enforcement wings even into the 1950s before his death in 55.

Capezio was the boss from 1952 until his sudden death in 1955, then Accardo was brought back until 1957 when their underboss Giancana took over

I'm telling you guy's, the 40's have a lot of open ended questions,one of the fetchetti brothers spent a lot of time with Capone in Miami in the 40's

Yeah and thats because C Fischetti was the top boss of a ruling panel at the time and he had to take care of Capone's "leftover" interests because most of the up and coming members from the organization didn't care about it

Or did Capone pick him to be the acting boss until everything got settled

Pls think about it with a clear mind...Capone became a problem for the secretive Mafia and it is explained by a couple of associates, usually former aldermen, and I think that we talked about this and i even sent you some files...just to remind you, there was one convo between Humphreys and Battaglia i think where the Hump says something like "When Al used to ran us" and then he explains about the new generation coming and forgeting about the rules. Humphreys was refering to Giancana who was made during the late 1930s before going to jail. He also explains to Battaglia on how the days of Al were great and if you think about it, Battaglia was made somewhere around the mid 1930s, previous of Giancana, which means that the Hump was talking about the early 1930s. Now, if Al still held some influence from prison, the evidence say that it was very little, if not only for his leftover interests and taking care of his family. Proof for that is the cancellation of the deal by Giancana years later. On top of that, when Al went to jail, by the late 1930s the Capone brothers lost their huge interests in Chicago.

Toodoped, I have an great amount of respect for you and I know I'm driving you guy's crazy with my Capone theory, but I really believe it to be true. Ralph didn't loose power until after Capone's death. I believe ralph tooked care of all of Al's business. When Ricca would visit al in Florida he would speak to al and talk business with Ralph in the next room, because that house was always being watched by the FBI, speaking of the FBI,they knew al was still active but couldn't prove, they interviews everyone in that house and nobody spilled the beans. There's interviews by his nephews that said when al would sneak away to his resort, that they once walked in on a meeting al and Ralph was having with the outfit, not to mention that Ralph was the money man in that Hollywood scandal back in the 40's, he was an unindicted conspirator.

I think that ive told you before that im not making fun of your theory but all need is hard evidence from associates or members who said something regarding the situation not relatives who were in diapers at the time. Ive sent you wiretapped convos and fbi reports, give me something in that kind of form and then ill say bless you

Also how do you explain the dividation of Cicero by the late 1930s which was allegedly Capones old stronhold. It was divided on north and south Cicero with Ralph Maddox and Heeney on the south and Campagna Volpe and Giancana on the north. This is another evidence that the West Side took over and there was no.more Capone. This is the Mafia we're talking about so dont get carried away by loyalty and obidience...the family thing began when Capone was out of jail which can probably explain Riccas or Guziks visits at his home. Story goes that Ralph refused to give any cash since both Matty and Als son were a real problem

Ralph refused to give any cash to who?

To Al's son.....read Humphrey's convos which I've sent you, everything is in there...looks like the Hump was the only one left who had real respect towards Al's family and always pushed for financial backup...search for Humps convos on the MF site, youll find many of your questions being already answered

In the name of honestly, I haven't combed through all of the documents you sent me, it was a lot. But in fairness, I will not make another comment on this subject until I have completed my readings

Thank you and again, dont forget that your theory is quite possible since other ppl asked me the same thing but simply there are not enough evidences

Great conversation. Thanks Toodoped for your insight. Yea those times were very confusing. I see why the outfit and the genovese families were very close. With both organiztions u had a hard time identifying who was in charge

If you ask me, the most confusing period regarding the Outfit starts from 1992 onward

Why is that time frame confusing to you? The nose was running the show

Well the Nose mightve been the top boss from 1997 but who was before that and who were the chief executives and under bosses, thats another whole confusion

Villain is right, the nineties is very confusing. DiFronzo may have stepped back as early as his exit from prison in 1994. John Monteleone was identified by the FBI as the boss in the mid-nineties.

OK, I've just got finished reading the links you previously sent me and I walked away with 3 observations:
1. Nowhere in the links did it rule out Capone being involved in the outfit in some capacity before he died
2. It appears Murray Humphrey's had a position similar to a street boss at that point and time
3. Giacanna was never the top man in Chicago, they gaved him a lot of wiggle room but he always answered to them
P.s. when al was released from Alcatraz Ralph, the fischetti's and the outfit sent him money constantly because they still viewed him as the boss (whether active or inactive) after he died, no one felt forced to take care of his family, sonny should have joined the outfit

You only see, what you like to see or in other words, what you believe in...

1. Here's at least one doc regarding Dan Serritella, former First Ward boss from 1930 until 1942, the exact period which we need to clear this nonsense. Now, Serritella wasnt some kind of mere associate or anything, but instead he hung around with the big leagues and some of the old newspaper writers considered him a member of the OLD Capone mob. The keyword here is "Old" which is also used in the document. Dont get confused by the words "Capone activities" which obviously means highly lucrative illegal activities. Now, Serritella was obviously not a member of the Mafia, but instead he was a quite close and long time and also quite useful associate, and when faced with the feds, he was telling truth because he cared for the votes which he brought. On top of that, Serritella is neither of Capone's family members, or in other words, the guy was there and he wasn't wearing diapers when he talked about this, nor he ever wrote a book about it. Here's the doc...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=142083&relPageId=23&search=accardo_capezio

Now, the feds were doing this investigation to find out on who led the Outfit or as they used to call it at the time, "the OLD Capone Mob", since Ricca and Campagna were in jail and Nitto was dead. So if you read the doc carefully, Serritella is talking about "committee meetings" which obviously occurred prior to 1946, which can be explained with a so-called ruling panel which included the Fischettis, Capezio, Humphreys and Guzik as older members and Accardo as the one being groomed for the chief executive position, which can be explained with this doc...and yeah, this was before Capones death and after his release but it obviously occurred because the main fellas were still in jail...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=139724&relPageId=51&search=accardo_capezio

So my point is that there was no Ralph Capone, nor John Capone in the top leadership at the time. There was once during the early 1930's or before Al went to jail, Ralph was given control to their stronghold which was the whole lucrative Cicero area. And I'll ask you again, how do you explain the separation of the Cicero area during the late 1930's which was one of the main reasons for bringing Giancana into the Mafia? I don't need docs for that because you can search for yourself on the MF site. This was the same year when Capone was released from Alcatraz and sent to another jail and paroled that same year, and at the same time Campagna sponsored Giancana who was probably made by Ricca and after that a ruling panel which lasted until the bosses' release and Capones death. Who made Battaglia previous of Giancana then? Al was in prison at the time. On top of that, this was the time when everybody was around Riccas, Campagnas and D'Andreas imprisonment and everyone around the country was busting their asses for their early release. Even the NY Mob allegedly was giving everything for the early release which really occurred in 1947. Why did none of the guys did the same thing for Al? Why when Ricca and the guy were out, suddenly Ralph and DeGeorge were sent to Wisconsin? And dont be fooled regarding Ralph collecting the cash for the early release. No sir, the guys who did it were Maddox, Humphreys, Heeney and Accardo, which can explain Accardos fast rise to the top. And on top of that this was befor Capones death. If he was the boss, he wouldve simply place anyone at the top and do not care about the guys in prison. You can also read about the early release on the MF site.

2. Humphreys headed the First Ward and was an advisor or problem solver and always had the last ok on the union stuff until his death. Theres one doc which confirms that...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...eys_last%20word

3. Giancana was the top boss at one time or should I say from 1959 until 1961, meaning chief executive and also top boss. Ricca was in jail at the time and Accardo was also having tax problems which almost landed him in jail forever and again brought him into the huge spotlight. In fact Accardos problems started way back from 1952. There were even some of Riccas and Accardos old associates getting pushed out of the business on Giancanas orders during that same period. Another proof that it was a dog eat dog world. I think that this is also documented on the MF site.

P.S. Nobody denies that they still had respect for Al or his family, or at least until Giancana took over. After that there was no more Capones and even Rocco Fischetti slowly began loosing his territory because he owed a lot of money, besides owning that huge land on the North and Northwest areas which later went under Les Kruse, Prio and Rocky Potenza or Giancana since Rocky was his guy. Capones empire began to crumble when the Outfits stronghold was transfered during the mid or late 1930s from the Cicero area to Taylor St, which in fact was another possibly older stronghold for the old Camorra and part from the old Mafia, or something mixed, which I believe later all was mainly represented by Ricca for quite a long period.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95316&relPageId=7&search=ricca_mafia

Plus or in addition, Giancana was charged for booze tax violations in the spring of 1939 and was sentenced to prison in October that same year and Al was paroled in November. So, Giancana was allegedly sponsored by Campagna for membership or in other words, he was made before going to prison. Now, you have to think about on who was the present or "free on the streets" top guy who received or gave the "ok" on Campagna's proposal for Giancana's entrance in the Outfit? Or even earlier memberships for that matter such as Battaglia's or even Fratto's?

Hey pal, maybe you can help me...john ragen spilled the beans to the FBI about the leadership of the Chicago mafia in the 40's,he ran a bookmaking service.I'm trying desperately to get my hands on the transcripts but I'm finding it next to impossible, maybe you will have better luck

I dont have the original transcripts but when I was writing my Lenny Patrick article, I read many of Ragen's statements and I beleieve that one of those was that Guzik, Humphreys and Accardo were the top leadership at the time. And the main current problem is that the Chicago Tribune Archives are no longer free.