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Which mobsters inherited their power? #915200
06/13/17 05:48 AM
06/13/17 05:48 AM
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Tonytough Offline OP
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Everyone including the public & fellow wiseguys loved to shitt on Gotti Jr for inheriting his position as acting boss or even when he was made captain at a young age thanks to his father

Which other mobsters were given the "power" without earning it?

Big Paul obviously comes to mind due to Carlo

Vinnie Butch Carao took over his father's crew right?

Trafficante's dad was a mobster

Raymond Patriarca's son

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915201
06/13/17 06:06 AM
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I wouldn't put Big Paul in that category, but will put Tommy Gambino, son of Carlo Gambino in the list. Hmm, Raymond Patriarca Jr actually earned his strips.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915202
06/13/17 06:11 AM
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Between Father and Son, Trafficante Jr. might have been the heavier guy....
He was official, actually I think Luchesse kinda " Mentor-Trained" him...

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #915204
06/13/17 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
I wouldn't put Big Paul in that category, but will put Tommy Gambino, son of Carlo Gambino in the list. Hmm, Raymond Patriarca Jr actually earned his strips.


Paul Castellano's men, and a lot of guys in the NY mob in general, sure didn't feel that way. The same goes for Patriarca jr, he wasn't respected at all. Gravano even testified that a faction of the New England mob came to NY with complaints that he wasn't qualified to be boss and was given his position and they wanted to depose him.


FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915205
06/13/17 06:58 AM
06/13/17 06:58 AM
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Allie Persico

And other relatives in the blood and mob family.


Cackling like a banty Rooster.

I love this," "I just love this."
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915213
06/13/17 11:29 AM
06/13/17 11:29 AM
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Lol @ Raymond Patriarca Jr earned his stripes.

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #915214
06/13/17 12:17 PM
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Correct about Paul, his family was here before carlo and were all cosa nostra already

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915218
06/13/17 01:40 PM
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Wouldn't almost the entire Detroit family since they're almost all related one way or another fall into this category? Also seems to me that most of the higher ups fall into this one way or another, I guess it depends on your how you define the question.

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: majicrat] #915224
06/13/17 02:18 PM
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That's pretty spot on Majicrat.

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915228
06/13/17 02:26 PM
06/13/17 02:26 PM
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Thanks Don Cheech. BTW how have you been since its been a while? Good I hope, busy I'm sure. Things are busy here. Email me.

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915251
06/13/17 08:02 PM
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Tonytough Offline OP
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Ok who earned their power without their father/ relatives

Michael Franzese? He was put into the life thanks to Sonny but Sonny was away and Mike started making waves

Ahh how did we forget- Bill Bonanno comes to mind. His father wanted him as consigliere which caused the Banana split thanks to Gaspar

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915343
06/14/17 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tonytough
Ok who earned their power without their father/ relatives

Michael Franzese? He was put into the life thanks to Sonny but Sonny was away and Mike started making waves

Ahh how did we forget- Bill Bonanno comes to mind. His father wanted him as consigliere which caused the Banana split thanks to Gaspar


Michael Franzese took over his father's crew when he went away, or at least started initially getting involved because his father was away. No way he wouldve survived that long if Sonny wasn't so powerful under Persico.

Ironically, one could make an argument that Carlo Gambino and Joe Bonanno were powerful because of their families. They were both from mafia royalty in Sicily, so they immediately had respect when they came to the states.

John Gotti is someone who had no family connections and rose in power simply due to brute force and his charisma. Horrible boss, but he still got powerful on his own. Carmine Persico was the same way, from a middle class family with no mob ties if I remember correctly.

Like George A said: "Never make a poor man the boss." Maybe that's why Gambino and Bonanno were so respected for so long, because they already came from mafia backgrounds, had decent money, and weren't petty street thugs. Then again, it didnt help Castellano in the longrun.


"It wasn't very good parsley to begin with, and then the cat went and peed on it." -Sicilian proverb
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915349
06/14/17 09:04 PM
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From the moment Capone stepped 1 foot in Chicago he was being groomed to be the boss... Did create Jr earn his stripes???


"McGurn likes you, so I make you. So you are now one of us, if you fuck up, we take it out on McGurn. He is your sponsor. Fuck up, it's his ass. You work in his crew, he is your capo."
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915350
06/14/17 09:12 PM
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Crea jr


"McGurn likes you, so I make you. So you are now one of us, if you fuck up, we take it out on McGurn. He is your sponsor. Fuck up, it's his ass. You work in his crew, he is your capo."
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915365
06/14/17 11:54 PM
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Reading Franzese'so book, I'm not sure it's correct to say his father "put' him in the life.

His father was a top enforcer, a HITTER, an extortionist type.


Franzese's talent was that he got crooked businessmen to do business with him. Forget the gas tax scam. Look at the container repair company he made when his father was locked up. 40-50k a month I think. Car dealerships, Union work, organizing sweetheart deals. Maybe he got some of his entertainment clout from his Dad, I know Sonny was into porn.

Even his sports agency seemed like a smart idea...

MONEY, put Franzese in the life, also, I thought he had his own crew? At one point in the book, he and his father were both capis, I think...

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915366
06/15/17 12:03 AM
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In fact, and I feel like people REALLY overlook this, but Michael's father, to prove to the mob how "loyal" he was, was perfectly willing to let his son get killed, because he made TOO MUCH MONEY, I mean, what else did he do? To Michael this was like, the ULTIMATE betrayal. It's the same feeling I get from dudes in the hood who put their own corrupted self image before common sense, who will put the well being of a gang above Thier own kids, or girlfirend or family...



Michael's perspective was that his father should have been willing to go to war, his money plus his Father's clout? Little Vic got powerful because of an alliance with Gotti, but one of the main reasons for the alliance was they were into the gas tax scam together.This racket increased his power to the point where he felt he could challenge the boss. If Little Vic could go to war, then what the fuck right?


I feel like a lot of people don't understand he ONLY joined the mafia, to prove to his dad he was really his son, really a FRANZESE. I don't know if my yall get the pressure behind that.
I know growing up there was tremendous pressure to be a "REAL DORSEY", aka a fuck in gangster, and this was coming from everyone from my uncles, to my mother, to my fuck in GRANDMOTHER, LOL

There are "crime families" then there are CRIME FAMILIES....

Last edited by CabriniGreen; 06/15/17 12:06 AM.
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915367
06/15/17 12:09 AM
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Basically, I don't Franzese should a ratted, I think he should a did what Little Vic did....

Take that gas racket, cut some key guys in, to build your power base. I think in that Chin book, CHIN SPECIFICALLY tried to take Franzese under his wing...hold up let me find it...ah, I'm away from my tablet with all my books on it, later I'll post an excerpt.

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915368
06/15/17 12:11 AM
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Capone earned his spot with blood, nepotism wasn't going to get you shit in Chicago during that time period..

Last edited by CabriniGreen; 06/15/17 12:11 AM.
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915369
06/15/17 12:24 AM
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@STUBBS


I think by the time Persico took power (from behind bars, Im pretty sure him and Sonny were locked up at the same time period) Sonny was out of the picture really.

Also, the vacuum Sonny LEFT, is what created the opening for Persico to take over. Sonny was going to be boss if that bank robbery thing doesn't happen.

See I don't think it's correct to say all his power came from his father. Even in his book, Franzese admits his power came from earning, and guys being TOTALLY dependent on the lifestyle he provided. They didn't FEAR FRANZESE,THEY FEARED LOSING THE COMFORTABLE LIFESTYLE HE PROVIDED.


Look how he got started, with car dealerships. Like just making a successful business. Not a sportsbook, or something like that. Even his loan sharking at the flea markets. It wasn't based on force, it was based on the fact that these people needed to refill inventory and arent very cash heavy up front. So just smart business intincts are what made him attractive to the mob, and the fact he kept making more and more money... is what had him moving up. When his father got out of jail, he couldn't even meet with people, and KEPT getting violated. How could he be responsible for Frazese's rackets?

It's like saying Scarof jr. couldn't make a buck without his dad, but he made a TON AFTER his dad got locked up right?

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Serpiente] #915371
06/15/17 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: Serpiente
Allie Persico

And other relatives in the blood and mob family.


Good call serp the Persicos are the first family that came to mind when discussing nepotism


"No, no, you aint alrite Spyder you got alotta fuckin problems"
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915379
06/15/17 05:37 AM
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Tonytough Offline OP
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Absolutely- Sonny would have let Michael get whacked

But I think it was more so to do with the fact higher ups thought he wasn't sharing enough

It's quite funny how Michael talked himself out of being hit by bringing up more potential deals he had lined up/ and how the bosses would make even more money with him alive.

These greaseballs are so damn greedy lol, that's one reason why Black Pete was deathly protected by Vincent.

As for Michael and Sonny making a powerplay, hmm interesting. Perhaps they could have considering Sonny's stature and Michael's money

But there was a lot of Persico loyalists not to mention blood relatives

It's not as easy as clipping Big Paulie for example and only having to
worry about his most loyal underling Bilotti or his one mobbed up dress making nephew blinkey

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: CabriniGreen] #915390
06/15/17 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: CabriniGreen
@STUBBS


I think by the time Persico took power (from behind bars, Im pretty sure him and Sonny were locked up at the same time period) Sonny was out of the picture really.

Also, the vacuum Sonny LEFT, is what created the opening for Persico to take over. Sonny was going to be boss if that bank robbery thing doesn't happen.

See I don't think it's correct to say all his power came from his father. Even in his book, Franzese admits his power came from earning, and guys being TOTALLY dependent on the lifestyle he provided. They didn't FEAR FRANZESE,THEY FEARED LOSING THE COMFORTABLE LIFESTYLE HE PROVIDED.


Look how he got started, with car dealerships. Like just making a successful business. Not a sportsbook, or something like that. Even his loan sharking at the flea markets. It wasn't based on force, it was based on the fact that these people needed to refill inventory and arent very cash heavy up front. So just smart business intincts are what made him attractive to the mob, and the fact he kept making more and more money... is what had him moving up. When his father got out of jail, he couldn't even meet with people, and KEPT getting violated. How could he be responsible for Frazese's rackets?

It's like saying Scarof jr. couldn't make a buck without his dad, but he made a TON AFTER his dad got locked up right?


Always appreciate your posts and insight Cabrini! I wasn't implying that Michael Franzese inherited everything from his father. I was saying he wasn't some nobody when he joined the mob, his father was nearly the boss like you said.

Regardless of the falling out Michael and Sonny had for a while, Michael would've had a lot of respect based on his name alone ot of fear and respect for his father. He was a smart guy and made a lot of money, and probably would've been successful without his father's name, but he still had a last name that carried weight.

It'd be the same if his name was Michael Dellacroce and joined the Gambinos in the seventies. He could be the best earner in the world, but he's still going to have a certain level of respect based off of his name alone.

Kudos to him for not coasting on his name and expecting respect out of nothing. Perhaps its not about your name it's what you do with it.

P.S. Which Franzese book do you recommend?


"It wasn't very good parsley to begin with, and then the cat went and peed on it." -Sicilian proverb
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Stubbs] #915424
06/15/17 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: Stubbs
Originally Posted By: Tonytough
Ok who earned their power without their father/ relatives

Michael Franzese? He was put into the life thanks to Sonny but Sonny was away and Mike started making waves

Ahh how did we forget- Bill Bonanno comes to mind. His father wanted him as consigliere which caused the Banana split thanks to Gaspar


Michael Franzese took over his father's crew when he went away, or at least started initially getting involved because his father was away. No way he wouldve survived that long if Sonny wasn't so powerful under Persico.

Ironically, one could make an argument that Carlo Gambino and Joe Bonanno were powerful because of their families. They were both from mafia royalty in Sicily, so they immediately had respect when they came to the states.

John Gotti is someone who had no family connections and rose in power simply due to brute force and his charisma. Horrible boss, but he still got powerful on his own. Carmine Persico was the same way, from a middle class family with no mob ties if I remember correctly.

Like George A said: "Never make a poor man the boss." Maybe that's why Gambino and Bonanno were so respected for so long, because they already came from mafia backgrounds, had decent money, and weren't petty street thugs. Then again, it didnt help Castellano in the longrun.

Michael Franzese was a incredible earner so that definetly helps rise your stature in the mob. Yes his father definetly helped BUT his father also never went out of his way to help him when he needed it. Franzese told a story about how the bosses were suspicious that he wasn't kicking enough of his earnings and was becoming too powerful and Sonny basically didn't lift a finger to help his son.


Carlo and Joe had ties but basically just to get their foot in the door. Both were very smart and obviously had long reigns and didn't end up in jail or murdered so they were successful.

John Gotti was basically a moron who was lucky that neil Dellacroce had some kind of liking to him and helped him rise through the ranks.(which was probably neil's biggest mistake in his mob career} Also lets not pretend Gotti took over by himself. Without Gravano and Decicco Gotti wouldn't have even gotten close to being boss.

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915447
06/16/17 04:54 AM
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Here's a little excerpt from the Chin book.....


Gigante arrived for a short stay on March 9, 1982. The next year he checked himself in on April 20. He stopped back in, yet again, on May 7, 1983. In each case Gigante showed the same symptoms, received the usual treatment and headed back to the Village. There was one difference: The FBI was now waiting outside, along with the Chin’s driver. Within hours of his departure on May 23, 1983, Gigante was back in the company of Dominick “Baldy Dom” Canterino, Frank Condo, Vito Palmieri (the Chin’s driver) and other Genovese associates. It was like a trip to Lourdes, and then it was business as usual. As was a 1983 meeting with an up-and-coming Colombo capo who became a moneymaking Mob machine before his thirty-fifth birthday.

The 1980s


In 2014, on a fall weekend morning in New Jersey, Michael Franzese shook hands with a steady stream of guests inside an industrial park in tiny Totowa, a town where the dead (one hundred thousand in five cemeteries) outnumbered the living (ten thousand residents). Franzese was dressed casually but neatly, with a fashionable hint of stubble.


He was here to show his new movie, From Godfather to God The Father, a tale of redemption that the born-again Colombo capo hoped would save a few souls.


Things were far different three decades earlier, in the 1980s, when Franzese, conspiring with the Russian Mob, conjured a massive scam to circumvent federal and state taxes by peddling bootleg gasoline in several states. His personal take in the rip-off was estimated at somewhere in the area of $ 2 million a week, and his rise through the family ranks was meteoric. By one account, he became the Mafia’s most prolific earner since Al Capone. Franzese drove a Cadillac El Dorado, took to the seas in a yacht and flew through the skies on a private jet. He even opened a Florida moviemaking business, Miami Gold. A 1986 Fortune magazine piece ranked Franzese at number eighteen on its list of the nation’s fifty biggest Mafia bosses.


On the other hand, they listed the long-deposed Salerno at number one, while slotting the Chin one spot behind Franzese at number nineteen. Franzese came with an impeccable Mob pedigree: The gangster’s dad was the legendary Sonny Franzese, who adopted the boy as an infant and raised the child as his own.


In an oft-repeated bit of lore, Sonny was behind bars in 1974 when he heard that a Colombo soldier was hitting on his wife. The body of suitor Carmine Scialo was found buried in a cellar, a garrote around his neck and his severed genitals stuffed in his mouth.



The elder Franzese, who was a pal of Roulette Records’ McCalla, hoped his boy would become a doctor. Instead, Michael followed him directly into the family business. His skills at making huge amounts of cash soon earned the younger Franzese a true 1980s nickname: “the Yuppie Don.”


His dad was an old-school guy, with a standing reservation at the Copacabana in Manhattan. Guests at his table included Sammy Davis Jr. and Bobby Darin. Michael became a made man in the 1970s, and he quickly ascended through the ranks to become a captain.




It was the gasoline scam that led Gigante to reach out for Franzese. Genovese capo Fritzy Giovanelli, one of the Chin’s most trusted capos, was dispatched to arrange the sit-down. “Every family wanted a piece of the gas business,” Franzese recounted. “When I first realized what I had in 1978, 1979, I told [Colombo boss] ‘Junior’ Persico that I would show him more money than he had ever seen before.” Other families, including the Gambinos and the Luccheses, made efforts to muscle their way into the illicit gas operation, so Franzese was unsure what to make of this summons to Sullivan Street.

“The word among all of us was that no one—made guy or not—was allowed to meet with Chin, unless he sent for you, or someone who he trusted very much would first vouch for you, qualify the reason for you to meet, and then be there when you met,” said Franzese.


“In my case Chin asked to meet with me. Fritzy told me Chin wanted to meet with me about the gas business.” From the rip-off’s inception, Franzese was insistent that the profits should remain for the Colombos only. He braced himself for an overture from the Chin, angling for a slice of the lucrative petroleum pie.


He was instead pleasantly surprised. Gigante, as befitting an elder statesman, wanted only to meet with the rising star and offer any needed assistance for the operation. He was more father figure than cutthroat boss to the up-and-coming gangster.


“Chin did not try to grab a piece from me,” Franzese recounted. “In fact, he told me if anyone bothered me, to let him know and he would help. I believe we would have done business eventually, but we were both having issues at the time and it was best not for us to be seen together.


(I feel compelled to point out, this is kinda consistent with Chin not really being that heavy handed with money, and letting Capos actually BE CAPOS...)


” Franzese recalled several subsequent meetings, all at the Chin’s request and all down in the Village. Whenever Gigante called, he always found time to answer.

“My father told me early on that Chin was the real power behind the Genovese family,” he recounted. “In general, that was the word on the street. My dad was happy when Chin asked me to meet with and told me to stay close to him.

(Maybe the kid, didn't listen to his dad enough??? Something to think about....)



“My personal conversations with Chin were all good. I know he commanded a load of respect on the street. I knew he was feared. I know how he treated me. I believed him to be a very good boss.” Franzese also knew the Genovese boss to be absolutely lucid and deeply involved with his family’s business, although he couldn’t help but notice Gigante’s robe and slippers.


“A dapper dresser, he was not,” said an admiring Franzese. “However, I always said that in order to play crazy so well for so long, and at the same time run a very powerful operation with pretty much of an iron fist, you had to be a bit crazy—no other way to pull that off, in my view. I know I couldn’t have done it.”




Franzese insisted that he never knew Chin or the Genovese family to handle any of the drug trade. The Colombo capo also knew enough to make sure he kept his mouth shut about any dealings with Gigante—or even mentioned his name. “For sure,” said Franzese. “We knew he was serious about it. To me, that was very smart. More guys got into trouble, with names being dropped on surveillance equipment, than you can imagine. Chin was smart in that regard.”


Franzese left the Mob behind in 1989, signing a cooperation agreement with the feds. With the help of his wife, he improbably turned to God and launched a new career, where he often referred to his old one as a tale of redemption. His name would later surface as a potential witness against the Chin, although he never took the stand against Gigante.

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915448
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CabriniGreen Offline
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@ Stubbs

The Yuppie Don book is pretty good, though it's clear he leaves a lot out too....

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915591
06/18/17 03:49 AM
06/18/17 03:49 AM
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Thanks for posting all of that CabriniGreen. The Genovese family did eventually get involved with gasoline bootlegging with Daniel Pagano BTW.

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915599
06/18/17 07:26 AM
06/18/17 07:26 AM
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In his book, Franzese said the first mobster to muscle in was Genovese soldier, Joe "Joe Glitz" Galizia. He was supposedly very powerful, often going over his capos head' answering direct to Chin ( Chin seemed to do this with the BIGGEST earners, just an observation.....)

It was actually one of his underlings fault, Lawrence Iorrizo, he smacked a guy named Shelly Levine I think, who was big in gas bootlegging and Franzese was trying to get him to be under him. But his underling throws his weight around, smacked the guy, he ran to the Genovese, and as a courtesy, they asked Michael to help them get started....



I think after he died, an Franzese was locked up, there was a mob panel that controlled it, Vic Orena got the Gambinos on it, they put in Anthony Morelli, the Genovese added Pagano, Casso represented the Luchesses, of course this was the exclusion period for the Bonnanos, the Massino era, so no one for them...

Last edited by CabriniGreen; 06/18/17 07:33 AM.
Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915600
06/18/17 07:35 AM
06/18/17 07:35 AM
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But I think, nah... Franzese actually COULDA been much bigger than he was, but like a lot,of the smarter, RICHER mob guys, he didn't really give a shit about mafia politics so much as earning....

Re: Which mobsters inherited their power? [Re: Tonytough] #915601
06/18/17 07:41 AM
06/18/17 07:41 AM
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The Inzerillos, actually probably a good number of the Europe based clans...


I would say Salvie Teasta, but as far as power, he earned every much as he inherited, I would say....

Lots of times it's the opposite, like the Pappadios, or Tomasulos.


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