adamrski

i read it in an article about the todaro's doing a good job of putting the family back together again in upstate n.y.

Interesting. Sorry, I'm just a bit skeptical of that particular claim. That would be like a small family in Binghamton in the mid 90s and I can't quite bring myself to accept that. Doesn't really fit with everything else. Because weren't they saying about ten years later that the Buffalo family only had 20-30 members total in New York?

again keep in mind that all 11 may not have been active. my guess is the majority of them were retired or semi retired at the time, but the FBI did identify them as made members. remember you are made for life................or death.

I don't agree with this for the most part. Do you not recall that Joe Bonanno was a founding member of Lucky Luciano's "Commission" post the Castellamarese war? This is fact. He was the youngest boss to ever head a family, especially in the midst of the jungle that NY's underworld was at the time. He was basically Maranzano's second in command towards the end of that conflict. He wasn't placed on the Commission simply because Maranzano said so, Bonanno was an accomplished guy in his own right. And in many ways Maggadino was jealous of his younger cousin, because despite bringing him to the US, and basically giving him a crew out right, which consisted of Willie Moretti, Bonanno simply surpassed him in power, this didn't take long to occur, according to Bonanno's own words.


Either way, they were both powers at the time you're speaking of, so trying to argue whom was more powerful than the other and who got a commission seat because of whom, is ridiculous. And at no point do I think the Buffalo family had 200 made guys. Buffalo was a powerful family at one point, however the fact is they never surpassed ANY of the NY families in terms of power at any point in time. And some NY families didn't even cap 200 made members.


And Buffalo is dead. There is simply NOTHING GOING ON. I really wish people would kill these rumors, like Todaro Jr putting ANYTHING back together. It's not happening.

I'll say this, it's silly to assume they woulda made Bonnano a boss cause he was Maggadinos cousin.

It's equally silly to assume they woulda made Maggadino a boss just cause he was Bonnanos cousin.

Cause them being cousins doesn't put money in anyone's pocket. They were BOTH LEGIT, Maggadino, cause of his families history in Sicily. They wiped out the Bucellatos, I think. Bonnano made his bones in the war, under Maranzano, plus he came from a mafia family anyway.

But at this point, he wasn't like rich yet. He didn't control any huge rackets he could cut people in on, ( in his book, he declines an offer for a piece of the Garment Center, so not to be beholden to Lucky..) He's a Youngster.

Like, a guy like Luciano was rich, guys like Maggadino and Bonnano were MAFIA.. Bonnano got a seat cause they didn't want to war with him, basically. He coulda kept it going after Maranzano got hit, all the La Marese guys woulda did whatever he told em, but HE wasn't happy with Maranzano either. You could say him being closer to Luciano's age, having similar interest, was a great factor too.

I really don't know why people get hung up on the made guys. ANY numbers from the sixties have to be taken with a grain of salt. The FBI didn't really know shit. They were playing catch up with all their black bag ops, the FBN were guys who knew what was up. All the FBIs numbers seem inflated at that time. Plus you gotta factor in the publicity component, how law enforcement exaggerates and shit.

Like I said in a previous post, if the Gambinos and Genovese could have 500-600 guys, Buffalo coulda had 200. But if we use common sense and see the numbers are basically kinda tripled, that woulda put Buffalo at about 60-70.
Those sixties numbers are goofy...

magaddino and bonanno both came from sicilian mafia royalty. both were heavyweights in their own right. there are those who believed that magaddino was the top castelammarese, not maranzano. that could have been true, but don stefano was wily enuf, and smart enuf to stay on the outskirts of the fray.

remember magaddino was the leader of the good killers, and very well connected in the u.s. and sicily. that catapulted him to being made the buffalo boss in 1922, while bonanno was only 17 at that time. magaddino didnt need bonanno to be made boss. i also think bonanno didnt need magaddino to become a boss. bonaano was well respected among the castelammarese in n.y.

my belief is the familys were larger in the 40's, 50's, and 60's than most believe. in the book honor thy father bill bonanno stated that the bonanno family had 400 members in 1965, and were considered to be one of the smaller n.y. families. in the early 1960's the FBI estimated 2700 made men in n.y./n.j. personally i think that was a reasonable assessment. as italians were the largest ethnic group in the area during the 40's thru 60's time frame.

i continue to allege the buffalo family had 200 made menders during the time frame i pointed out. my guess is if you go back to the 1930's and 1940's the buffalo family probably had more than 200 members.

Are you talking about Willie Moretti the underboss of the Genoveses based in New Jersey?

I'm one of those who also believe those numbers are exaggerated. I think the families' numbers in New York in the 1950s were probably similar to the numbers of the 1980s when the families had replenished their numbers after the books were re-opened in 1976.

I think Buffalo may have had close to 100 members at their height, but probably closer to 75 or as few as 60. It was a midsized family similar to Detroit and Philly.

I wonder since Magaddino was named boss whether Buffalo had a large Castellammarese community that was of influence in his election?

Yes, in Bonannos book he says the first guy he was introduced to was Willie Moretti. And that Moretti, I believe was the one whom picked him up from the airport and showed the ropes for a while before he got established in NY basically.


Bonannos father, and his ancestors were also a part of the Maggadino clan in Sicily and participated in the Buccellato War, and basically contributed to some of the murders of their guys. So Bonanno also had that going for him just as Maggadino did. Maggadino was the leader of the Good Killers, which was basically the US version of the Maggadino clan whose mission was to wipe out the remaining Buccellato's whom made it to America and their allies. They succeeded for the most part, so Maggadino could've very well carried considerable weight based on that as well.

willie moretti was dispatched by stefano magaddino to florida to get joe bonanno and their mutual cousin peter magaddino out of hock from customs officials .

willie moretti at the time was a member of the magaddino family, and was located here in niagara falls n.y. moretti lived in niagara falls from about 1923 thru approx 1927 then moved on to new jersey and was a member of the luciano/costello /genovese family.

This page of mary ferrell'site on some made men names in the 1960s

OTHER NAMES

to answer your question, yes buffalo did have a large castelammarese community during magaddino's reign. as did binghamton n.y., and detroit mich. the largest castelammarese group was in brooklyn.

Im the book Fatal Hour: The Assassination of President Kennedy by Organized Crime of Bob Berkeley is said that in the 1960s the Magaddino had 300 "members" so I think that the numbers included also the associates.

I'm still trying to find which thread it was, but there was a link to the Mary Ferrell docs, in it they had the Gambinos at 1000 members. That was when I said, " okay, the Feds were playing catch up still"... If you had the standard ten made guys per crew, you are talking about a hundred capos. I've heard as many as thirty for the Gambinos, but a hundred???!!!!

(It's something that inadvertently gives credence to the Gambinos selling memberships' but that another thread...)


If that's true, then sure, Buffalo coulda have two or even three hundred guys. It woulda still meant the Gambinos were five times bigger. And if you think the Gambinos were about 300, then the same rate of like 5-1 could apply, and that would have Buffalo at 60 guys. So to me either way, 200 or 60 are plausible, but I think the smaller number more likely.

But it's compelling, the MAFIA WAS STRONG AS HELL DURING THIS PERIOD. Think about it, the Yakuza ( the organization most similar to the Sicilian mafia, to me) could support 10-15 or 20 thousand guys. At the height of mafia power, I certainly think they coulda supported 2700 guys....mThe UNIONS alone might have been able to support 2000 guys, I dunno. It's an interesting question, the numbers of made guys during that period.

CabriniGreen I think that at the beginings the Fbi due the lack of informants inflationated the numbers didnt make a divisione between made members and italian associates,because until the 1970s the mob prefered to had more italians as associates and not all members. The fbi thinked that all people with a italian surname was a soldiers so the 1000 gambino made men.

Yeah, I think LeeCoppola wrote pretty much the same thing in '98. Here is the link:
The Withered Arm-1998

Interesting I never knew Joe Scalise was in Buffalo I wonder which boss sent him there

LOL--I think that Chicago Mobster was called "Withererhand."

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/...b213760-bb91-11ee-97e0-535453324230.html

Pharaoh's case isn't the first that linked an Outlaws leader to a witness' death///// Federal prosecutors have focused most of their charges on Gerace, the Pharaoh’s owner who is Ermin’s boss there.

Gerace is the nephew of Joseph A. Todaro, owner of La Nova Pizza, who federal prosecutors and agents have accused of running the Buffalo Mafia.

Real interesting read, there is definitely something still going on in Buffalo. I'm not sure how long a smaller outfit can last though.

I think Buffalo will do all right. The Hamilton Mafia have become stronger so one will compliment the other. Some experts have said that the Ndrangheta may help revive some American CN families and there is plenty of Ndrangheta on the Canadian side. We will see if it happens.

https://torontosun.com/news/world/h...s-a-dead-ex-stripper-outlaws-and-the-mob

HUNTER: Buffalo trial has alleged dirty cops, a dead ex-stripper, Outlaws and the Mob