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Timeline? #901072
12/08/16 10:57 PM
12/08/16 10:57 PM
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JackieAprile Offline OP
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I'm wondering if there's a definite timeline for the first two GF II movies?

As I've seen it:

1901: Antonio Andolini, his wife, and son Paolo, are all murdered in succession either by or on the orders of local gangland Don Ciccio in Corleone, Sicily. Vito Andolini, the younger son of Antonio, narrowly escapes his own murder and flees to America, and there is renamed Vito Corleone.

1917: By this time, Vito is married to Carmela, and has a son named Santino. He loses his job working in the shop of friend Genco Abbadando father due to local neighborhood boss Don Fanucci, and becomes involved in organized crime through Peter Clemenza to make extra money. He witnesses Fanucci menacing a young woman around this time.

1920: Vito and Carmela have had two more sons, Fredo and Michael. Fredo is a sickly boy; Michael is an infant born earlier that year. Vito's status as a rising star in the underworld attracts the attention of Fanucci, who attempts to extort and intimidate him. His partners, Clemenza and Salvatore Tessio, wish to avoid trouble by paying Fanucci in full, but Vito insists that he can convince Fanucci to accept a smaller payment by making him "an offer he won't refuse". During the Feast of San Rocco in August 1920, he stalks Fanucci to his apartment and shoots him dead and becomes the new neighborhood Boss.

Mid 1920s: Vito, now a respected and rising Mafia Boss, opens Genco Pura Olive Oil Company with his criminal associates as partners, as a front for his illegal activities. It is around this time he partners with a young hood named Hyman Roth to import illegal liquor during the height of Prohibition, further increasing his power, wealth and prestige.

1922: Vito takes his family, which now includes a daughter named Constanzia, on a trip to Sicily. Ostensibly, this is a family vacation; Vito however, intends to not only expand his empire overseas, but also settle old scores. With the help of a defector from Don Ciccio's camp named Tomassino, he avenges his mother, father, and brother by stabbing Ciccio to death. In the fight, Tomassino is wounded and crippled. However, the two remain lifelong friends and business partners, allowing Genco Olive Oil to become a multinational business; at the same time, Tomassino takes over Ciccio's territory and becomes a trusted and loyal Corleone Family ally.

1932-1933: A war involving Al Capone, Maranzano, and other rival gangsters results in the wounding of Vito. New Corleone muscle, Luca Brasi, helps end the war by murdering Vito's enemies. The war is settled with the murder of Maranzano, his empire absorbed into Vito's own, and Vito organizes the Commission, to help regulate La Cosa Nostra. He is at this time the most powerful gangster in America.

Sal Tessio, and Pete Clemenza are his Capos; Genco is his Consigliere; and Frank Pentangelli is one of his higher level Soldieri. Vito adopts orphan Tom Hagen into the Family, raising the boy as his own son, at the request of Santino. Santino begins to join the family business at this point.

December 7th 1941: Michael Corleone enlists in the Marines on Vito's birthday, much to the disappointment of his family. Santino introduces his sister Connie to a friend and associate of his named Carlo Rizzi.

Early 1940s - Michael meets and begins dating Kay Adams while attending Dartmouth College.

1944-1945: Genco is diagnosed with cancer and his health fails. Hagen is made interim Consigliere, much to the disdain of the other NY Families. By this point, Santino is acting as Underboss of the Family.

August 1945: Michael returns from military service to attend his sister Connie's wedding to Carlo Rizzi. By this time, Willie Cicci and Paulie Gatto are Enforcers in the family under Clemenza.

September 1945: Virgil Solozzo, a "young Turk" gangster and heroin producer, obstenstively backed by the rival Tattaglia Family, meets with Vito and the Administration of the Corleone Family hoping to establish a business relationship wherein the Corleone Family will help Solozzo distribute heroin and offer their political protection over his operations in return for control of the business and a large chunk of the profits. Santino openly expresses interest in the deal, much to Vito's disapproval; and Vito ultimately turns Solozzo down, seeing the drug business as potentially a threat to his Family's own businesses. It isn't known yet, but Emilio Barzini, a rival of Vito's and Boss of the second most powerful crime Family in the country, is secretly backing Solozzo and using him as a front for his own interests. Smelling a rat, Vito sends Luca Brazi to act as a spy on the Tattaglia people under the pretext that he is unhappy with Vito's leadership.

December 1945: Luca Brasi is murdered by Bruno Tattaglia. Vito Corleone, on the orders of Barzini, betrayed by Paulie Gatto, is ambushed and nearly assassinated. He lingers in critical condition. At the same time, Tom Hagen is taken hostage by Virgil Solozzo to attempt to force the Family into cutting a deal. Vito survives, much to the chagrin of Solozzo and Barzini.

Sonny becomes Acting Boss of the
Family.

Clemenza protege Rocco Lampone is inducted into the family after murdering Family traitor Paulie Gatto.

Michael joins the Family after his jaw is busted by police Captain Mark McClusky, who, acting on the orders of Solozzo, whose payroll he is on, removes security from Vito's hospital room - in the hopes of pulling off a second, successful assassination attempt.

January 1946: Michael assassinates McClusky and Solozzo for the Family, and is sent into hiding in Sicily. Fredo is sent to Vegas under the protection of one of the Family's Western allies.

1947-1948: The War between the Tattaglia and Corleone Family drags on, the Corleone Family bumping off Tattaglia second-in-command Bruno (son of Boss Philip Tattaglia) while Vito slowly recuperates. Enforcer Willie Cicci is bumped up to Soldieri during this time. The power of both Families declines as the War allows for both the Barzini Family and non-Italian gangs to grab hold of their gambling rackets. The War is locked in stalemate. The police crack down on the underworld's vice rackets.

1947-1948: While in Sicily, Michael meets and falls in love with Appolonia Vitelli, and courts her. They are married a short time after.

1948: Hoping to end the War, and cripple the Corleone Family permanently, the Barzini Family, with the assistance of turncoat Carlo Rizzi (embittered by being beat up by Sonny and being kept out of the Family's inner circle), set up and brutally gun down Sonny.

Vito rises out his sick bed and takes back control of the Family, and organizes a peace summit. Meanwhile, in Sicily, a botched assassination attempt by the Barzini Family on Michael results in the car bomb death of his wife, Appolonia.

Vito and Barzini organize a summit which include all of nationwide Bosses of La Cosa Nostra. Barzini presides over this summit, ostensibly as the neutral peacemaker, which only serves to enhance his status as the new leader of the Underworld. A peace deal between the Tattaglia and Corleone Families is reached, in which the Corleone Family will lend its political power to support and cover the nation-wide traffic in Heroin for the other Families, in exchange for a return to peace and resumption of the status quo. Vito hinges his deal on the clear command that his son Michael be allowed to return safely to the US.

1950: Michael returns to the US, his name cleared in the Solozzo and McClusky murders, and he begins to be trained by his father to take over the Family, and he is introduced to his father's many political contacts.

Father and son begin to devise revenge on Barzini, Tattaglia and their supporters, and also begin to develop the plan to relocate the Family to Nevada. Outwardly, the Family will appear weak, while secretly creating new regimes.

Around this time, ex-policeman Al Neri is cultivated to replace Luca Brazi, and serves as Michael's personal Soldier and chief enforcer along with Rocco Lampone.

Fall 1951: Michael reunites with Kay Adams, and promises her that the Corleone Family will be "completely legitimate" within the next five years. They are married not long after.

1952: Michael and Kay have their first child, Anthony.

1953: Michael and Kay have a daughter, Mary.

1954: By now, plans to move to Nevada within the next year are cemented.

Vito retires as Don of the Corleone Family and semi-retires, acting as the Family's de Facto Consigliere, while Tom Hagen is removed as Consigeliere and also from the criminal end of the Family. He remains the Family lawyer. Michael becomes Acting Boss of the Family.

Meanwhile, the Family's seemingly passive stance has allowed the Barzini people to chisel away at Family Territory, and Capo Salvatore Tessio and Pete Clemenza chafe under Michael's leadership. Tessio is the more notably distressed of the two. They are ordered simply to be patient.

Michael meets with Moe Greene, the head of the Las Vegas underworld and an important underworld figure, who has been instructing and also belittling and abusing Fredo. Michael attempts to buy Greene out of the shares of his hotels and casinos. Greene rebuffs Michael, saying the Corleone Family is finished.

Spring 1955: Michael continues to be instructed by Vito, who warns him that Barzini will move against him soon, and that there is a traitor in the Family. Vito predicts that this traitor will set up Michael's murder by acting as a mediator in the Cold War between Barzini and Michael, setting up a meeting between the two and guarantee ring Michael's safety.

June 1955: Vito dies of a heart attack, aged 63, while playing with his grandson, Anthony.

At his funeral, Tessio reveals himself as the Family traitor by informing Michael that he is going to set up a meeting between Barzini and Michael at his territory in Brooklyn, promising Michael's safety.

July 1955 - Michael serves as Godfather to Connie's son, Michael. The same morning, on his orders, Emilio Barzini, Philip Tattaglia, Carmine Cuneo (Boss of the Bronx based Cuneo Family, the third most powerful in the nation), Victor Stracci (Boss of the Staten Island based Family bearing his name), and Moe Greene are all simultaneously assassinated.

Al Neri kills Barzini; Rocco Lampone kills Tattaglia; Willie Cicci kills Cuneo; and Pete Clemenza kills Stracci.

Later that morning, Sal Tessio is taken to be executed by Willie Cicci, among others, under the supervision of Tom Hagen.

That afternoon, after confessing to Michael that he set up Sonny to be killed, Carlo Rizzi is executed by Pete Clemenza.

It is likely Tessio's territory is split between Al Neri and Rocco Lampone, who are elevated to Caporegime. Control over Moe Greene's casinos is absorbed by the Family, as is much of the territory of the other Five Families.

The Corleone Family is now the most powerful in the country, if not the world.

August 1955: The sale of the properties in New York, and the move to Nevada are almost complete. Michael allows Clemenza to retain his position as Capo and act as the family's representative in New York after the move, while Neri and Lampone will act as the Family's Capos in Nevada.

Connie hysterically confronts Michael and accuses him of murdering Carlo, which he denies both to her and to Kay. Michael is officially made Boss of the Corleone Family, his ascension officially approved by Family Capos Clemenza, Lampone and Neri.

Last edited by JackieAprile; 12/08/16 11:38 PM.
Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #901076
12/08/16 11:29 PM
12/08/16 11:29 PM
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JackieAprile Offline OP
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Circa 1956-1958: The Eastern Corleone Family becomes embroiled in a territorial conflict with the Rosato Brothers, possibly renegade Corleone soldiers, who are secretly backed by Miami based crime lord, Hyman Roth. Peter Clemenza dies and is replaced as New York Capo by longtime family soldier, Frankie "Five Angels" Pentangelli. The hostility between the Rosato's and Eastern Corleone Family becomes more hostile; the Rosato Brothers begin taking hostages by early 1958.

Spring 1958: The Corleone Family is officially established in Nevada. Michael and Hyman Roth enter into negotiations via Roth's messenger Johnny Ola for the Corleone Family to take control over some of Roth's casinos, and also to begin a lucrative business partnership in Cuba. While Roth is outwardly supportive, he does not wish to share power, and plots Michael's murder. Fredo is courted by Johnny Ola and seduced with the promise of independent power if he will give Ola and Roth some information. He is supposedly informed that this information will simply make the negotiations between Roth and Michael go smoother.

During negotiations to gain a hotel in Nevada, owned by Meyer Klingman (an associate of Roth's), Turnbull an affiliate of Nevada Senator Pat Geary. Turnbull is approached by Tom Hagen, who a arranges a meeting with Senator Geary concerning the gaming licence for the hotel and casino.


May 1958: Michael's son, Anthony, receives Holy Communion. By this time, Kay is pregnant with their third child.

Michael meets with Johnny Ola to discuss the transfer of some casinos to Corleone Control; he also meets with Senator Geary to discuss the transfer of the casino and hotel as well as the fees for the gaming license. Geary rebuffs Michael and insults Michael, his family, and Italian-Americans.

Michael meets also with Frank Pentagelli and his second in command, Willie Cicci, who bitterly complain about Michael's inaction against the Rosato's. Michael orders Frankie to make peace with the Rosato's, and he is warned by Frankie about doing business with Hyman Roth.

That night, Michael is nearly assassinated in his bedroom. The gunmen are mysteriously killed before they can be found and questioned.

Michael turns over control of the Family to Tom, and goes to Miami to meet with Hyman Roth. He claims to Roth that he will take care of Pentangelli; that he knows Pentangelli was behind the assassination attempt. Meanwhile, he goes to New York and tells Pentangelli that he knows Roth was behind the attempt, but orders Pentangelli to do nothing and make peace with the Rosato Brothers.

Winter 1958: Michael travels to Havana with his brother Fredo, to discuss Roth and Michael's takeover of Cuba. Roth, Michael, and several of their partners travel to Havana to discuss their future Cuban business prospects under the cooperative government of Fulgencio Batista; Michael becomes reluctant after reconsidering the viability of the ongoing Cuban Revolution.

December 31st, 1958/January 1st, 1959: Michael attempts to have Roth and Roth's right-hand man Johnny Ola killed by his bodyguard, but Roth survives when Michael's bodyguard is discovered and shot by police. Michael accuses his brother Fredo of betrayal after Fredo inadvertently reveals that he'd met with Ola previously. Batista abruptly abdicates due to rebel advances; during the ensuing chaos, Michael, Fredo, and Roth separately escape to the United States.

Back home in Lake Tahoe, Michael learns that his wife Kay has miscarried their child.

Meanwhile, during what is meant to be a peace meeting with the Rosatos, Frank Pentangelli and Willie Cicci are nearly killed by the Rosatos and are taken into custody by the police and are arrested on a variety of (likely trumped up) charges. They are convinced Michael betrayed them, and are convinced to cooperate with the Feds and testify against him.

1959: Michael is put under investigation by a Senate Committee. One of the Senators is under the control of Roth, who is using the hearings to cripple Michael as a legitimate businessman and thus destroy his power in Las Vegas. The Committee trots out Willie Cicci as an informant, who names Michael as he head of the most powerful organized crime family in America and describes his role as a button man and claims to have received orders to kill for Michael Corleone, but cannot directly implicate Michael in any crimes. Appearing at a later hearing in the winter, Michael denies all charges.

The Senate Committee then brings forward Frank Pentangelli, who the Committee is certain will directly implicate Michael. Michael appears in court with Pentangelli's brother. Upon seeing his brother, Pentangelli recants his sworn confession, and claims not to have ever been part of any "Corleone Family"; claiming only to have been a legitimate business partner of his father, Vito, in the olive oil trade. The case against Michael collapses. Pentangelli is put into witness protection.

Winter 1959: Michael's marriage to Kay collapses when she reveals her miscarriage was actually an abortion, done to spite Michael. She is exiled from the Compound, and is denied access to their children. She is seemingly cut out of all aspects of their lives.

1960: Fredo reluctantly returns home to Nevada, an exile within the Family. He confesses to having betrayed the Family to Roth and is exiled from the Family Compound. Connie begs Michael to forgive Fredo.

Carmela Corleone, widow of Vito and mother of Michael and Fredo, dies, and during the funeral, Michael publicly makes peace with Fredo, while plotting his murder.

At the same time, Michael, Neri, and Lampone plot the murder of Hyman Roth, who has been denied sanctuary and political asylum by multiple countries. Tom Hagen is ordered to convince Pentangelli to commit suicide for his betrayal.

Hyman Roth is assassinated by Rocco Lampone, who is himself killed by the FBI.

Hagen persuades Pentangelli to commit suicide, with the promise that his family will be taken care of if he does.

Fredo is taken on a boat ride with Al Neri, and executed, his body dumped into the lake near the Corleone Compound.

Fall 1968: Many years later, Michael is seen sitting alone, his mind flashing back to December 7th, 1941, when he announced to the Family (including the now dead Sonny, Tessio, Carlo, and Fredo) his intention to join the Marines against his Father's wishes, and ruminates on his personal downfall as a man, despite being the most powerful Mob boss in the country.

Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #901082
12/09/16 01:00 AM
12/09/16 01:00 AM
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mustachepete Offline
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All just guesses:

I think that Tom's adoption occurred around age 11 and that he's the same age as Sonny, so it would be in the mid-1920s.

I think the Maranzano war takes place a few years before the "colonial war" in which Vito is wounded by the Irish gang. I think the latter occurs around 1936, and that Sonny joins the Family in between those two events.

The Epic version of the film mentions Rocco ' s secret regime, so I think Rocco had his own group and Neri took over Tessio's. I don't think there's any reason to think that Tessio's old territory was run semi - independently after Tessio was killed.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #901106
12/09/16 11:28 AM
12/09/16 11:28 AM
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olivant Offline
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Yes Pete, as the novel states, Lampone and Clemenza were the family capos and Neri was sent to take command of Tessio's regime. However, Neri ended up in charge of security at the Corleone hotels in Nevada. Tessio's territory was probably given to Lampone since he did not have a territory.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Timeline? [Re: olivant] #901385
12/11/16 09:18 PM
12/11/16 09:18 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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Timelines are fun, but frustrating because we have to deal with three movies that span a century, plus changes of character and sloppy writing. You've got the approximate dates right when the movies make clear when a particular scene occurred. But, I believe Michael was in Sicily much less time than you suppose--four years is far too long for a Mob war.

I constructed this timeline for Michael's Sicilian sojourn based strictly on the novel, which also suffers from sloppy writing but at least doesn't have a century to cover:

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...true#Post580389

Last edited by Turnbull; 12/11/16 11:05 PM.

Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #901387
12/11/16 09:57 PM
12/11/16 09:57 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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TB, fix that link so I can check it out. I too think Mike was in Sicily not much more than a year.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Timeline? [Re: olivant] #901395
12/11/16 11:06 PM
12/11/16 11:06 PM
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Posts: 19,487
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Turnbull Offline
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Timeline fixed above.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #901401
12/11/16 11:52 PM
12/11/16 11:52 PM
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olivant Offline
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Here's what dictates the entire timeline for me.

Vito is shot just before Christmas 1945. Sonny brings him home the following February, 1946. Vito has to rise from his sick bed to take command of the family after Sonny's murder. Now, if we push Sonny's murder into 1947, that means that Vito was in his sick bed for around 12 months. That seems implausible to me.

I believe that Sonny was murdered in late spring or early summer, 1946. The Don's meeting took place during the summer, 1946. But, as the novel states, it was to be almost a year before Vito could bring Michael back. So, Michael is back by summer or so, 1947. He meets up with Kay during fall/winter 1948 (leaves on the ground and winter coats; "I've been back a year; longer than that I think."). The massacre takes place in 1950/51.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Timeline? [Re: olivant] #901430
12/12/16 08:25 AM
12/12/16 08:25 AM
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JCrusher Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Here's what dictates the entire timeline for me.

Vito is shot just before Christmas 1945. Sonny brings him home the following February, 1946. Vito has to rise from his sick bed to take command of the family after Sonny's murder. Now, if we push Sonny's murder into 1947, that means that Vito was in his sick bed for around 12 months. That seems implausible to me.

I believe that Sonny was murdered in late spring or early summer, 1946. The Don's meeting took place during the summer, 1946. But, as the novel states, it was to be almost a year before Vito could bring Michael back. So, Michael is back by summer or so, 1947. He meets up with Kay during fall/winter 1948 (leaves on the ground and winter coats; "I've been back a year; longer than that I think."). The massacre takes place in 1950/51.

The massacre took place in 1955 in the film

Re: Timeline? [Re: JCrusher] #901488
12/12/16 04:23 PM
12/12/16 04:23 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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Yes, it's true that the massacre occurs in 1955--in the film. The novel doesn't state a date for the massacre. I believe that 1955 would be way too far in the future to be realistic. Michael would have been back in the US, understudying Vito, for eight or nine years before he finally took over. And, Vito and Michael were deliberately acting weak, the other families would have totally plundered the Corleones' holdings over that length of time.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Timeline? [Re: Turnbull] #901910
12/16/16 01:20 AM
12/16/16 01:20 AM
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JackieAprile Offline OP
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JackieAprile  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Yes, it's true that the massacre occurs in 1955--in the film. The novel doesn't state a date for the massacre. I believe that 1955 would be way too far in the future to be realistic. Michael would have been back in the US, understudying Vito, for eight or nine years before he finally took over. And, Vito and Michael were deliberately acting weak, the other families would have totally plundered the Corleones' holdings over that length of time.


In the novel, Vito's death occurs roughly ten years after Connie's wedding (pg. 409):

"It was nearly ten years since there had been such a celebration of people in this house, nearly ten years since the wedding of Constanzia Corleone and Carlo Rizzi."

This passage occurs after Vito's funeral, and before his burial.

Also, it says that it had been "more than a year" since Bonasera had accepted the Don's help when Tom called needing his services.

Also, it says Vito is 60 years old at the time of the "Peace Conference" on page 290.

Also, it took "nearly another year" to bring Michael home from Sicily. So, by the time he gets back, Vito is 61.

Now, one thing, Lucy's dialogue with Jules in the book indicates that Sonny died in 1947. Because it is said that a year had passed since his death when she started seeing Jules. They're talking about sex and refer to fellatio, and he says "Nice girls don't do that. Manly men don't do that. Even int he year 1948."

So the books timeline is probably:

August 1945 - Connie's wedding. This is stated outright, late August 1945.

Christmas 1945 - Vito shot.

1946-1947: Don Corleone lingers in recovery

1947: Sonny is killed.

1947 or 1948 - Peace Summit.

1948 or 1949: Michael returns home

1953-1954: The death of Vito

1955: The Massacre

1956: Move to Nevada. It says in the book that "for twelve months [after the Massacre], Michael divided his time equally between his headquarters at the Long Beach Mall, and his new home in Las Vegas. But at the end of that year, he decided to close out the New York operation and sell the houses and property."

Note - the meeting in which Tessio vents about Barzini's people chewing at his territory occurs after Vito's death in the book, before his burial. He vents to Michael. It appears that the Family's weakness was due more to Vito dying, as Tessio says Barzini had already opened up two new books in the last day in his territory. Also, Michael asks Pete and Sal to stay int he family for a "year", maybe less, and then they can form their own families if they want.

Note also that Connie had reconciled with her brother by this point, and that she was remarried to an Italian man who worked for the Corleone Family as a secretary.

So, I think the novels and film follow the same rough timeline. Coppola just decided to push Vito's death forward to 1955 rather than 1953 or 1954.





Last edited by JackieAprile; 12/16/16 01:21 AM.
Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #902514
12/22/16 07:26 PM
12/22/16 07:26 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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The Godfather Part II start in the fall of 1958 according to the script. It must have been an exceptionally warm October at Lake Tahoe because you see some people swimming. Filming the Lake Tahoe party started in early October as well, and unlike in the movie, the actors had to wear thermal underwear because of the cold.

According to Coppola's notes a young Vito returned to Sicily in 1922 (the movie trailer says 1921).

I've also seen some pages of the recently released The Godfather Notebook and Coppola indeed states that Sonny's death is in 1946. However, he also states that Michael returns in 1950 and that the massacre is in 1955, which we already knew based on Vito's tombstone.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Timeline? [Re: Sonny_Black] #902552
12/22/16 11:25 PM
12/22/16 11:25 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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There goes FFC contributing to the confusion:

Immediately after Sonny died in 1946 (which I believe), Vito, as we saw, told Tom, "This war ends now," and to arrange a meeting with the heads of the Families. The novel says it took a year after Vito arranged the peace at that meeting for Michael to have returned to America--putting his return in 1947, not 1950. And, if it were 1950, Vito--sick, dispirited, trying to look weak--would have had to run the family by himself for four years, if there was anything left of his family, since the others would have taken advantage of his weakness and taken everything.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Timeline? [Re: Turnbull] #902553
12/22/16 11:33 PM
12/22/16 11:33 PM
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olivant Offline
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Exactly TB.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Timeline? [Re: Turnbull] #903289
12/31/16 06:36 PM
12/31/16 06:36 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Originally Posted By: Turnbull
There goes FFC contributing to the confusion:

Immediately after Sonny died in 1946 (which I believe), Vito, as we saw, told Tom, "This war ends now," and to arrange a meeting with the heads of the Families. The novel says it took a year after Vito arranged the peace at that meeting for Michael to have returned to America--putting his return in 1947, not 1950. And, if it were 1950, Vito--sick, dispirited, trying to look weak--would have had to run the family by himself for four years, if there was anything left of his family, since the others would have taken advantage of his weakness and taken everything.


Which is why it's better to put Sonny's death in 1948 so the timeline overall makes more sense.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #903354
01/01/17 02:13 PM
01/01/17 02:13 PM
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olivant Offline
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Well, if making it better is the criteria, then 1948 is better. However, that being the year, it means that Vito returns to the mall in February 1946, remains in his sickbed 10 months of 1946, all of 1947, and several months of 1948 before rising to resume command of the family. That's a long time.

As TB does, I believe that Sonny was murdered in the spring or early summer of 1946 and the Dons' meeting took place that summer.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Timeline? [Re: olivant] #903357
01/01/17 02:30 PM
01/01/17 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Well, if making it better is the criteria, then 1948 is better. However, that being the year, it means that Vito returns to the mall in February 1946, remains in his sickbed 10 months of 1946, all of 1947, and several months of 1948 before rising to resume command of the family. That's a long time.

As TB does, I believe that Sonny was murdered in the spring or early summer of 1946 and the Dons' meeting took place that summer.


It would have been summer 1946 at the very earliest as Puzo hinself writes in the novel that Sonny went on the offensive during spring and sumner.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #950607
08/18/18 06:26 AM
08/18/18 06:26 AM
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Quiet_Doms Offline
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So after Vito goes into semi retirement and Michael is named the Acting Boss, who is the Underboss?

Re: Timeline? [Re: Quiet_Doms] #950780
08/19/18 09:50 PM
08/19/18 09:50 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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Clemenza and Tessio were the underbosses, as before. Vito was consigliere, as Michael said to Tom when he told him, "You're out, Tom."


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #950882
08/20/18 09:35 PM
08/20/18 09:35 PM
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jace Offline
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I found this info on Reddit. One thing off regarding the timeline in the movie is when Vito is shot at the fruit stand. It is supposed to be just before Christmas of 1945 However when Vito is shopping. A poster is visible on the wall behind him and the fruit vendor. It advertises a fight between Jake LaMotta and Tommy Bell. That fight took place in March of 1947, 2 years and 3 months later. I found this info on Reddit.

It throws the timeline out of balance. It is also a bit ironic that Vito would later be played by De Niro as a young man, De Niro would later play La Motta in the film Raging Bull.

Last edited by jace; 08/20/18 09:36 PM.
Re: Timeline? [Re: jace] #950883
08/20/18 09:51 PM
08/20/18 09:51 PM
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SC Offline
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Originally Posted by jace
I found this info on Reddit. One thing off regarding the timeline in the movie is when Vito is shot at the fruit stand. It is supposed to be just before Christmas of 1945 However when Vito is shopping. A poster is visible on the wall behind him and the fruit vendor. It advertises a fight between Jake LaMotta and Tommy Bell. That fight took place in March of 1947, 2 years and 3 months later. I found this info on Reddit.



LaMotta and Bell met three times in the ring. Their second fight was January 11, 1946. That would be in line for the poster in the scene (three weeks before the shooting).

FWIW - All three bouts were held in Madison Square Garden and LaMotta won all three by unanimous decision.

And further to Vito's shooting, it took place either Friday, December 21 OR Saturday, December 22, 1946. The back page of the Daily News that reported Vito was shot had the sports headline about Janiro beating Zavala. That match took place on 12/21/46. (Janiro was a decent middleweight who fought Jake LaMotta - remember from "Raging Bull" Vicki LaMotta said he was good looking and it drove Jake wild).


.
Re: Timeline? [Re: SC] #950884
08/20/18 10:11 PM
08/20/18 10:11 PM
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olivant Offline
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Quite true SC.

Although it has nothing to do with the GF film, those fighters back then fought an incredible number of fights and within a relatively short amount of time. LaMotta may have led the pack. I think they'd make mincemeat out of today's fighters.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Timeline? [Re: JackieAprile] #950888
08/20/18 10:36 PM
08/20/18 10:36 PM
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jace Offline
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Great info SC, that clears it up. I mistaken thought they had made a goof. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Re: Timeline? [Re: olivant] #950982
08/21/18 11:39 PM
08/21/18 11:39 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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Originally Posted by olivant

those fighters back then fought an incredible number of fights and within a relatively short amount of time.

...and got paid a lot less, and kept a lot less. The Mob ran the fights in those days.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.

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