Or were the Gotti/Gravano faction simply a bunch of overly greedy punks with no foresight who should've been whacked?

I ask because you look at Paul's tenure, and all the power Carlo had left to him only became greater under Paul. The Gambinos were doing business as far away as the Middle East with the car theft operation; under Paul they had basically become a multinational criminal empire. Paul was also able to neutralize the Westies - who had given the Families a headache in the 70s - and make them into vassals who did his dirty work. I look at Paul as something akin to a Roman Emperor.

Every issue that dogged his tenure can directly be traced back to the Bergin Crew. If Willy Boy Johnson wasn't a rat, the Feds wouldn't have gotten the layout to Angiee Ruggiero's home; If they didn't get access to his home, no bug which detailed the layout of Paul's home; No Angie bug, no Paul bug; no 1985 tape crisis; and Paul possibly escapes the Commission trial. All of his problems stemmed back to that one crew.

And Gravano? Gravano was a greedy fuck who whacked out all his friends just so he could take their businesses, who never did any time in the can and who ratted as soon as he faced a prison sentence.

While they still exist, the Gambinos have never truly recovered from the Gotti/Gravano regime, and OC as a whole has never recovered from Gravano's defection.

So in retrospect, was Paul really that bad of a Boss?

He made some good moves and of course understood business, but I would still say he wasn't a very good boss. The fact that he was so greedy and out of touch with the streets that Gotti etc felt they could get away with having him killed says a lot.

Yes, the Gambinos made a lot of money under Castellano. But, according to Kurins and O'Brien in "Boss of Bosses," Paul lacked the one quality absolutely vital to a "good" Don--the respect of his people. He wasn't respected because:
--He almost never went into the streets to meet with his people. They had to come to his home in Staten Island--and not many were invited.
--He cut deals with other families that his people felt were giving away their business.
--He involved himself in petty details and small amounts of money that should have been left to underlings.
--He didn't show up at Neil Dellacroce's wake or funeral, which members of Neal's crew took as a sign of disrespect.
--He carried on openly with his Colombian housemaid, Gloria Olarte, under the same roof where his wife lived.
--After the Commission case was filed, other Dons believed that he'd turn rat rather than spend the rest of his life in prison, away from Gloria.
And, most important:
--He was stingy with money, refusing to share generously with underlings. If you want to look for a source of Mob violence, just follow the money.

So paul become boss in dec 76to dec85 im guessing he personly inducted 100guys? Maybe half of them still alive. They would probaly say he was a good boss. Sammy the bull really made him look like a shity boss in his autobiography. But look at sammy turning a drug kingpin in the wpp. Its insane his word is bad right? Dude killed his wifes brother thats some lowlife to the bottom shit. I wonder how she forgave him or his kids.

Yeah but look where going out in the streets got Gotti. LCN was a secret organization. The Boss is the Boss; you come to him. He doesn't come to you. It looks weak. That said, he shouldn't have had the "White House."



This goes back to his "nation building". Short term would it have hurt? Yeah. But he was building connections for the future to make the Families stronger and tighter. Which would've maximized growth in the long run.



Such as?



He was under indictment for being a member of an alleged criminal conspiracy. Showing up at a wake for a guy with a long rap sheet and standing with guys who have known reputations as killers along with even longer rap sheets doesn't look good for his upcoming trial. In any other circumstance, it'd be unforgivable, but the Commission trial was unprecedented.



That was wrong. No justifying that.



They had no proof. Couldn't the finger of potential rathood be leveled at any of the other Dons awaiting trial? They were all old men who would've died in jail.



How was he stingy exactly?

One rule for Gigante, another for Castellano.

Gigante kept himself isolated and didn't meet low-level soldiers either.

Nobody shits on him for it.

Its different Moe. Gigante isolated himself and acted like crazy for dont go to jail,Castellano thinked that he is a Ceo not a mob boss,plus he dont made much time in prison. For the dellacroce wake I think that you the boss must show respect to the underboss, big Paul was so scared by the prison that prefered avoid the wake and for this was more hated by the street soldiers.

@ JackieAprile

He had Gambino capo Frank Piccolo killed as a favour to the Genovese family. Now this might endear the Genovese to Castellano, but shows the soldiers in the Gambinos that they are disposable. Also, according to Gravano, Castellano arranged a lot of construction deals with the Genovese to benefit him personally and the not the family.

There are instances, according to Gravano, in which Castellano held "mini Commission meetings" over small time problems in the construction business.

Gravano also recalls a time when Castellano stiffed him for $40,000 in a construction deal. Donnie Shacks and Gerry Lang were caught on tape complaining about how Castellano stiffed them over $50,000 in a construction deal. Corallo and Avellino also criticized him on tape.

Truthfully Paul did the right things as boss. He valued white collar crimes, he stayed in the shadows ,and he was vere selective of who he would elevate to certain positions. His issue was greed. I think if Paul stayed at the usual 10% cut then his soldiers wouldn't have been as pissed.

Jcrusher Paul hate demeo but made him because the money he made and for the westies alliance. Castellano would made everybody bring him more $$$$$.

That's exactly what I meant. Yes he didn't like Demo but Demeo was a tremendous earner so of course he had to induct him.

One mistake Paul made was imagining that he and Tommy Bilotti could run a mob as big as the Gambinos...after Carlo had two underbosses.

Paul should have kept that structure. He was supposed to have two underbosses, each with their own crew, keeping every captain in check.

In addition to that, he should have moved with a bodyguard who was not his underboss. By using your underboss as your bodyguard, you make it easy for an enemy to take both of you out at one time in one place.

Paul just wasn't thinking in terms of military strategy.

Sammy Gravano is a rat scum bag, but the thing about him killing his brother-in-law is misconstrued. Nicky Scibetta was a junkie. Paul approved him being whacked and don't tell Sammy. Frankie DeCicco sought permission to tell Sammy that Nicky was gonna be whacked. Sammy didn't fight it, but he had no say in the ordeal nor did he participate in any way. He wasn't dying with Nicky. The mere fact that he "knew" it was going to happen beforehand made him complicit and counted as 1 of his 19 murders. Sammy only pulled the trigger in 1 murder. He set up a lot of them but Louie Milito was the real hitter that did a lot of his heavy lifting.

He was a million times better than Gotti

there wasnt a big unrest in his family after he was killed. so yeah he probably was a bad boss if nobody cared

Sammy Gravano is a rat scum bag, but the thing about him killing his brother-in-law is misconstrued. Nicky Scibetta was a junkie. Paul approved him being whacked and don't tell Sammy. Frankie DeCicco sought permission to tell Sammy that Nicky was gonna be whacked. Sammy didn't fight it, but he had no say in the ordeal nor did he participate in any way. He wasn't dying with Nicky. The mere fact that he "knew" it was going to happen beforehand made him complicit and counted as 1 of his 19 murders. Sammy only pulled the trigger in 1 murder. He set up a lot of them but Louie Milito was the real hitter that did a lot of his heavy lifting.[/quote]

I believe that’s the real reason why Sammy had Louie whacked. He was no slouch himself but from all accounts Milito was no joke.