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Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #942324
06/04/18 01:02 PM
06/04/18 01:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
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TheKillingJoke Offline
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Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well?
I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.

Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.

Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #942339
06/04/18 03:00 PM
06/04/18 03:00 PM
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Yes, Peter van Dijk was born at a trailer camp in Tilburg, but he grew up in Zuid-Limburg.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Kampers ? [Re: TheKillingJoke] #942343
06/04/18 03:22 PM
06/04/18 03:22 PM
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Hollander Offline
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Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.


True and historically there was always a fair amount of Dutch Jews involved in organized crime.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #942353
06/04/18 03:59 PM
06/04/18 03:59 PM
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TheKillingJoke Offline
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Never knew Van Dijk was actually from Tilburg.
Henk Ebben from Schiedam is from the settled community, right?

Re: Kampers ? [Re: TheKillingJoke] #942357
06/04/18 04:12 PM
06/04/18 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Never knew Van Dijk was actually from Tilburg.
Henk Ebben from Schiedam is from the settled community, right?


I think so, many of those guys grew up in working-class neighborhoods called volkswijken.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #942392
06/05/18 12:10 AM
06/05/18 12:10 AM
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Posts: 124
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Jeremythejew Offline
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basically like brad Pitt in the movie SNATCH

Re: Kampers ? [Re: TheKillingJoke] #942537
06/06/18 12:12 PM
06/06/18 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well?
I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.

Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.


I wonder why that is so . After all one can point to the ( still lasting ) marginalization of certain segments of the British Isle's indigenous lower/working class as a main factor for the existence of so many indigenous British organized crime groups , however I'm not aware of a similar phenomenon with respect to the settled Dutch lower/working class .

If anything the Netherlands was always ( and I imagine still is ) a more tolerant/less socially stratified society than the UK , which makes the large amount of settled Dutch gangsters seem a bit puzzling to me .

I suppose one can bring up the fact of the Netherlands being an important smuggling center though ...


Last edited by 2a; 06/20/18 03:35 PM.
Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #942605
06/06/18 07:34 PM
06/06/18 07:34 PM
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Hollander Offline
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Yes Dutch organized crime (penoze) originated in working class neighbourhoods like the Jordaan in Amsterdam, Crooswijk in Rotterdam or Schilderswijk in The Hague. But also on the country side in the south, who are more rural.

Last edited by Hollander; 06/06/18 07:37 PM.

"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Kampers ? [Re: Jeremythejew] #942636
06/07/18 05:00 AM
06/07/18 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremythejew
basically like brad Pitt in the movie SNATCH


Haha.

Now many are settled, but in the nineteenth century the so-called 'travelers' or 'wanderers' still move from hotel to guest house or from barn to haystack. It is not until the middle of the century that caravans arrive so that the family and the furniture can go along.
There have always been people roaming the country.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #942643
06/07/18 08:45 AM
06/07/18 08:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
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TheKillingJoke Offline
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Originally Posted by 2a
Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well?
I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.

Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.


I wonder why that is so . After all one can point to the ( still lasting ) marginalization of certain segments of the British Isle's indigenous lower/working class as a main factor for the existence of so many indigenous British organized crime groups , however I'm not aware of a similar phenomenon with respect to the settled Dutch lower/working class .

If anything the Netherlands was always ( and I imagine still is ) a more tolerant/less socially stratified society than the UK , why makes the large amount of settled Dutch gangsters seem a bit puzzling to me .

I suppose one can bring up the fact of the Netherlands being an important smuggling center though ...



While there's definitely not the abrasive "us vs. them" mentality going on with the indigenous Dutch working class community as there is with the British, I feel there are also quite a bit of parallels between the British and the Dutch in this regard. There definitely is noticeable poverty and a lot of the "pastime activities" are remarkably similar (both love a bit of football hooliganism for instance). Also historically, as with the British, the Dutch always loved to trade.
Another thing is that a more "organized" form of crime already existed in these countries way back; the Dutch "penoze" tradition goes back a couple of hundred years and reasonably organized gangs were formed in the British Isles as soon as large town settlements were being built. This is something most other Western European countries never really had. Though I'm not sure how much I can count "tradition" as a factor, because for instance Germany used to have the "ringvereine" yet over there indigenous OC (if you don't count the occasional German biker) has been dead ever since.

Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #942671
06/07/18 05:52 PM
06/07/18 05:52 PM
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The old penoze is almost dead in the cities, but many sons still follow in the father's footsteps. Like the sons of Henk Ebben, Cornelis Steenbergen, Piet Schneider, Greg Remmers, Henk Rommy etc..


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Kampers ? [Re: TheKillingJoke] #942691
06/07/18 08:06 PM
06/07/18 08:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke


There definitely is noticeable poverty and a lot of the "pastime activities" are remarkably similar (both love a bit of football hooliganism for instance). Also historically, as with the British, the Dutch always loved to trade.


I agree the British and Dutch are also seafaring people.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Kampers ? [Re: TheKillingJoke] #942747
06/08/18 11:20 AM
06/08/18 11:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 246
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Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Originally Posted by 2a
Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well?
I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.

Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.


I wonder why that is so . After all one can point to the ( still lasting ) marginalization of certain segments of the British Isle's indigenous lower/working class as a main factor for the existence of so many indigenous British organized crime groups , however I'm not aware of a similar phenomenon with respect to the settled Dutch lower/working class .

If anything the Netherlands was always ( and I imagine still is ) a more tolerant/less socially stratified society than the UK , why makes the large amount of settled Dutch gangsters seem a bit puzzling to me .

I suppose one can bring up the fact of the Netherlands being an important smuggling center though ...



While there's definitely not the abrasive "us vs. them" mentality going on with the indigenous Dutch working class community as there is with the British, I feel there are also quite a bit of parallels between the British and the Dutch in this regard. There definitely is noticeable poverty and a lot of the "pastime activities" are remarkably similar (both love a bit of football hooliganism for instance). Also historically, as with the British, the Dutch always loved to trade.
Another thing is that a more "organized" form of crime already existed in these countries way back; the Dutch "penoze" tradition goes back a couple of hundred years and reasonably organized gangs were formed in the British Isles as soon as large town settlements were being built. This is something most other Western European countries never really had. Though I'm not sure how much I can count "tradition" as a factor, because for instance Germany used to have the "ringvereine" yet over there indigenous OC (if you don't count the occasional German biker) has been dead ever since.

Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Originally Posted by 2a
Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
Is "Dikke Peter" a traveller as well?
I always assumed he was just a local Limburg guy who made it big in the underworld. Nevertheless, the guy really isn't one to be crossed.

Even though "kampers" play a very prominent role, traditional OC in the Netherlands isn't really limited to them. There's lots of Dutch from the settled community involved in organized crime as well. I'd wager to say that next to the UK (England and Scotland) and Ireland, the Netherlands is one of the rare northwestern European countries that breeds a ton of indigenous outfits that are involved in the underworld on a large international scale.


I wonder why that is so . After all one can point to the ( still lasting ) marginalization of certain segments of the British Isle's indigenous lower/working class as a main factor for the existence of so many indigenous British organized crime groups , however I'm not aware of a similar phenomenon with respect to the settled Dutch lower/working class .

If anything the Netherlands was always ( and I imagine still is ) a more tolerant/less socially stratified society than the UK , why makes the large amount of settled Dutch gangsters seem a bit puzzling to me .

I suppose one can bring up the fact of the Netherlands being an important smuggling center though ...



While there's definitely not the abrasive "us vs. them" mentality going on with the indigenous Dutch working class community as there is with the British, I feel there are also quite a bit of parallels between the British and the Dutch in this regard. There definitely is noticeable poverty and a lot of the "pastime activities" are remarkably similar (both love a bit of football hooliganism for instance). Also historically, as with the British, the Dutch always loved to trade.
Another thing is that a more "organized" form of crime already existed in these countries way back; the Dutch "penoze" tradition goes back a couple of hundred years and reasonably organized gangs were formed in the British Isles as soon as large town settlements were being built. This is something most other Western European countries never really had. Though I'm not sure how much I can count "tradition" as a factor, because for instance Germany used to have the "ringvereine" yet over there indigenous OC (if you don't count the occasional German biker) has been dead ever since.


Yes the factor of having a merchant tradition should not be overlooked . Would you say the Netherlands has a higher percentage of indigenous residents living in poor marginalized neighborhoods than Germany by the way ?

Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #943029
06/10/18 02:11 PM
06/10/18 02:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,078
TheKillingJoke Offline
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@2a

Traditionally yes, but as of recent years the poverty rate of Germany has increased to the point that it has eclipsed the Netherlands'. I think the poverty rate in Germany is about 15% nowadays, which is more than the one of for instance Albania.

In Germany it seems to be that a lot of people from a foreign background are living below the poverty line, even though honestly I don't know how accurate this is. For instance you got extended Lebanese families with thousands of members of which the majority are reportedly living in extreme poverty (and many of them admittedly do live in small bedroom-sized apartments somewhere in a Berlin or NRW working class neighborhood) while actually those dudes have a truckload of money.

It's the same with the Netherlands. Any "kamper" is registered as "poor", despite the fact that some of them are able to wipe clean their ass with €500 banknotes if they want to. You got Moroccan or Curaçaoan guys living in council flats despite the fact that they are actually filthy rich.

It's all hard to tell sometimes.

Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #943203
06/11/18 01:35 PM
06/11/18 01:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
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Gallinari Offline
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Wiseguy
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Long Live The Rooster.

@ SC, disappointed in you that you had to stoop to name calling. But youre the boss. Feel bad for you too now.

@ Loscalzo, your nonsense about Tampa still holds no weight and Ive been vindicated many times over.

All the best to Nickle, Bensonhurst, Cabrini, and Giacomo. Keep up the good posts in my absence

Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #943400
06/12/18 10:25 AM
06/12/18 10:25 AM
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Posts: 44
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Wiseguy
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This Rooster asshole is an idiot. SC when does he finally get banned? I dont understand, does he have unlimited IP addresses??

Last edited by Gopher; 06/12/18 10:28 AM.
Re: Kampers ? [Re: TheKillingJoke] #944124
06/18/18 01:19 PM
06/18/18 01:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 246
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Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
@2a

Traditionally yes, but as of recent years the poverty rate of Germany has increased to the point that it has eclipsed the Netherlands'. I think the poverty rate in Germany is about 15% nowadays, which is more than the one of for instance Albania.

In Germany it seems to be that a lot of people from a foreign background are living below the poverty line, even though honestly I don't know how accurate this is. For instance you got extended Lebanese families with thousands of members of which the majority are reportedly living in extreme poverty (and many of them admittedly do live in small bedroom-sized apartments somewhere in a Berlin or NRW working class neighborhood) while actually those dudes have a truckload of money.

It's the same with the Netherlands. Any "kamper" is registered as "poor", despite the fact that some of them are able to wipe clean their ass with €500 banknotes if they want to. You got Moroccan or Curaçaoan guys living in council flats despite the fact that they are actually filthy rich.

It's all hard to tell sometimes.


Yup that often seems to be the case the world over , especially when it comes to criminals ...

I hope I'm not tiring you with all these questions , but are there any good English language books about the Dutch underworld that you'd recommend ? There seems to be a dearth of said material , which is why I'm asking .

Anyways thanks again for all the information .

Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #944214
06/19/18 04:59 PM
06/19/18 04:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
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TheKillingJoke Offline
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Originally Posted by 2a
Originally Posted by TheKillingJoke
@2a

Traditionally yes, but as of recent years the poverty rate of Germany has increased to the point that it has eclipsed the Netherlands'. I think the poverty rate in Germany is about 15% nowadays, which is more than the one of for instance Albania.

In Germany it seems to be that a lot of people from a foreign background are living below the poverty line, even though honestly I don't know how accurate this is. For instance you got extended Lebanese families with thousands of members of which the majority are reportedly living in extreme poverty (and many of them admittedly do live in small bedroom-sized apartments somewhere in a Berlin or NRW working class neighborhood) while actually those dudes have a truckload of money.

It's the same with the Netherlands. Any "kamper" is registered as "poor", despite the fact that some of them are able to wipe clean their ass with €500 banknotes if they want to. You got Moroccan or Curaçaoan guys living in council flats despite the fact that they are actually filthy rich.

It's all hard to tell sometimes.


Yup that often seems to be the case the world over , especially when it comes to criminals ...

I hope I'm not tiring you with all these questions , but are there any good English language books about the Dutch underworld that you'd recommend ? There seems to be a dearth of said material , which is why I'm asking .

Anyways thanks again for all the information .


No problem! I live in a Dutch border region so I've seen all types of stuff happening haha.

I don't really know about any English language books about the Dutch underworld tbh. There's a few works in Dutch, though it's mostly based upon the "big name" underworld figures.

Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #945146
06/27/18 11:02 AM
06/27/18 11:02 AM
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Hollander Offline
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For the District Court in Breda, the prosecutor claimed 14 years in prison for manslaughter against the former Rotterdam drug lord Kobus Lorsé (73) for the murder of his son-in-law John Wassink (45). Justice thinks that Lorsé shot dead Wassink in July 2014.
That would have happened on the grounds of the car company in Roosendaal where Wassink lived in his caravan. The body of Wassink was packed on July 28 in a blue sail found in the Markkanaal near Breda. Blood traces have been found in the bedroom and on the side of a mattress Lorsé's DNA. Lorsé denies involvement in the murder and points the accusing finger towards a business partner of Wassink, who in his opinion is also responsible for the disappearance of the Belgian Jelle Leemans.

Last edited by Hollander; 06/27/18 11:04 AM.

"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Kampers ? [Re: 2a] #946433
07/11/18 05:45 PM
07/11/18 05:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
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Hollander Offline
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In Breda, the court sentenced Kobus Lorsé (73) to 12 years in prison for the shooting of his son-in-law John Wassink, in the summer of 2014. The Public Prosecutor had demanded 14 years against the Rotterdam ex-drug lord.

https://www.crimesite.nl/kobus-lorse-12-jaar-voor-doodschieten-schoonzoon/


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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