Something that never seemed right to me, was when Kay first met Michael's family at Connie's wedding. As Mike and Kay were eating their lasagna, Mike told her the story of how his father got Johnny Fontane out of his contract. He truthfully told her, in no uncertain terms, exactly what his father and Luca Brasi did. At this point in the film, Kay was the straight laced New England, non Italian school teacher. I think its safe to assume that, at the most, she heard of "gangsters", but was never really exposed to them. My question is, why did she still stay with Michael? Sure he said "That's my family, Kay. It's not me." Did she really think the fruit fell that far from the tree?

She was naive and in love. You put two and two together.

Hmmmmm....in love? Yes. Naive? After Michael told her the story about the gun to the head? Goes beyond being naive....

Naive as in she believed him when he said the famous line: "That's my family, Kay, that's not me." She believed that because she was in love, no other reason.

Totally agree. That is the only logical answer and reason. Besides if she went for the exit, Mario Puzo would have had to create another love interest for Mike.

My point is that I just don't think it would have happened in the real world, given Kay's background. Of course like the great Alfred Hitchcock used to say, "its only a movie".

Welcome back, Johnny. Long time passing... Two things:
First, Kay never really fit into the family in GF. Michael has to drag her into the family photo. We see her with Vito exactly twice: Once in the family photo at Connie's wedding, the other at Vito's burial. In a deleted scene after Connie's wedding, as Michael and Vito are waiting for the car to take them to Genco's deathbed, Vito says, "Did your American girlfriend get home alright?" Inferred serious disapproval.

Secpnd, what did Kay really expect of Michael? OK, it wasn't (and still isn't) unusual for people of one background to be attracted to people of completely different backgrounds. And, since Kay apparently met Michael in college, and he went right into the Armed Forces after Pearl Harbor, she had no up-front reason to doubt Michael when he said, "That's my family, Kay--it's not me."

The more interesting part happens later, when Kay finds out that Michael really is part of the family. Michael tells her so when he woos her in New Hampshire. And, we see it at the end, when Clemenza kisses "Don Corleone's" hand and Neri closes the office door on her. In II, she sticks with him even when it's obvious that he's the biggest Mafioso in America (until the Tahoe shooting finally turns her).

Years ago, we had a few threads on Kay and her expectations. Some said it's common for wives to think they can change their husbands. What do you think?

Just my opinion, of course, but I think the "That's my family, Kay. It's not me." exchange has a strong sexual component to it, almost as if Michael is making his move and seeing if Kay will stop him.

You have the line in Goodfellas where Henry gives Karen a gun to hide and she says, "I gotta admit - it turned me on," and I think Kay is the same way.

Thanks Turnbull for the welcome. I had to have arrangements made to have me return safely and cleared of all false charges against me.

All great points, especially about her not really being accepted by Vito. Yes, many times opposites do attract. I just found it a little unusual for Kay and her background to be attracted a to crime family. Its not like the Corleones were low lever number writers of loan sharks. She was introduced with the story of how Vito got Brasi to get Johnny released from his contract, with the band leader.

I don't think she really thought she could change Mike. I think it was more of a situation where she liked the "perks" that was given her, due to the income Mike had with his "business". Like other wives she just turned a blind eye to what was going on.

To me,though, she didn't fit into the mold of other mob wives such as in Goodfellas.

Sounds reasonable to me. Quite possibly with her conservative New England background, she wanted to walk on the wild side.

I'm also of opinion that she didn't think she could change him per se, but, because she was in love, she A) believed Michael when he says it's his family and not him and B) when he convinces her that in X number of years he'll turn the family legit.

She wanted to believe those things, and as it goes, women in love often do believe the most ridiculous shit.

Remember that Michael and Kay's relationship was pretty well advanced by that point, and Michael has apparently shielded Kay from pretty much all details about his Family. (She doesn't even know Tom Hagen's backstory, and that actually makes Vito look good.)

So, when he tells her "that's my family, Kay, that's not me," she has every reason to believe him - she's known him for a long time and it really wasn't him at that point.

There's a deleted scene in a hotel room that sheds light on Michael and Kay's early relationship. They are supposed to go to the Mall, and they hatch a scheme to pretend they're still in New Hampshire to get out of it.

It shows Michael's reluctance to mix Kay with his family and also shows a playful side of Michael that we never really see again.

I think Kay was always hoping to get that Michael back.

Very astute analysis, LW. You're right: that playful side of Michael in the deleted scene was never seen again. Really too bad: It showed what Michael could have been if he had stuck with, "It's my family, Kay--it's not me."

Turnbull, you bring up an interesting question. Did Mike meet Kay in college? Since I believe he is supposed to have gone to Dartmouth, which is located in New Hampshire, which makes it very feasible. Was she also a student or one of the local girls?

I am trying to visualize a time line as to when Mike went to college and when he enlisted in the Marines. Did he enlist before going to college, or the other way around. How old would Mike have been in December in 1941?

Got to love the Internet. Found all my questions answered. I will now share with everyone:




Gender Male
Born 1920[1][2]
Hell's Kitchen, New York, U.S.
Died 1997[3]
Bagheria, Sicily, Italy
Affiliation Corleone family
Title(s) Don, The Godfather


Michael.
Born in 1920, to Vito and Carmela Corleone, Michael was deeply loved by his father, even prompting Vito to murder blackmailer Don Fanucci so he could support Michael and the rest of his family. He became a bright and handsome young man, and of all of Vito Corleone's children, Michael was said to be most like him in terms of intelligence, personality, and cunning.


Michael and Kay

Michael at his sister Connie's wedding.
Michael initially wanted nothing to do with the Corleone's "family business", and enrolled at Dartmouth College in order to escape any potential involvement in crime. In truth, his father never wanted Michael to be involved in the family's criminal enterprise, and actually hoped he'd go into politics. After the United States' entry into World War II in 1941, he enlisted in the Marines (training under Sergeant Bradshaw) and fought in the Pacific, even though his father had expended great effort to wrangle a deferment for him. For his bravery in battle, Michael was awarded the Navy Cross, he was also featured in Life magazine in 1944. Michael was discharged as a Captain to recover from wounds- along with friend Hank Vogelsong - in 1945 (unbeknownst to him, the doctor treating him had been bribed by his father to exaggerate his injury in order to send him home). Returning to Dartmouth, he met a young teaching student, Kay Adams; the two fell in love. He assured Kay on numerous occasions that he wanted a more normal life, and wanted nothing at all to do with the Mafia.

I'm pretty sure that Dartmouth had no female students in 1945. I've assumed that Kay went to one of the "Seven Sisters" (or equivalent) schools that groomed wives for the Ivy students of the era. I also assume that she met him as a younger student after he returned from the war - otherwise she would have finished school while he was in the service.

Kay is 4 years younger then Mike. Kay was born to Thornton Adams, a Baptist pastor from New Hampshire, and his wife Agnes Adams. An excellent student, she was admitted to Dartmouth and met Michael in 1945 while studying education there. Though they believed their affair to be a secret, Kay's concerned parents had read some of her mail and discovered the truth.

As a non-Italian, she was somewhat of an outsider from the beginning and symbolized Michael's initial desire to live a more Americanized life, in contrast to the Corleone family's criminal enterprises. She attended Connie's wedding with Michael, and most of the guests thought her to be somewhat more free-spirited than they'd come to expect from an unmarried woman. Kay was taken aback when Michael told her how his father helped Johnny Fontane's career by threatening to kill his manager, but Michael assured her "that's my family Kay, not me".

Right you are...Dartmouth became coeducational in 1972, when women joined men in pursuit of the A.B. degree.

Is it common for wives to think they can change their husbands? Uh, that would be a big "yeah".

In fact it happens so often, it could be termed the irresistible force (wife) vs. the immovable object (husband). In the case of Michael and Kay, the dynamics are a little more nuanced than that, as rather than actively resisting the change that his wife wishes to see in him, Michael is making at least a token effort to change himself (I believe so anyway). The drama, and the tension, comes in his inability to reconcile two irreconcilable imperatives: a) the desire to go legit and be the kind of upstanding man whom Kay can respect and admire, and b) the desire to take care of the family business...and take care of the family.

~ Q

And the Don was right in his disapproval. Vito knew that an old school Italian wife would never disapprove, at least openly, of having a husband who would live that kind of life. Mama Corleone never questioned Vito about his business. Appolonia never questioned Michael about his business. American Kay was nothing more than a continuing thorn in Michael's side as far as the family business went.

Bottom line....Kay thought that she could change Michael and at the same time Michael thought that he could change her. Both were fooling themselves.

Ah, yes. You and I (and many others) discussed that very important point years ago on this board. It's a big subtheme in the Trilogy: how unrealistic expectations, all around,lead to tragedy.

A couple of things:

1) I've always wondered what possessed Michael to tell her that story in the first place. That's a private, family story that implicates his father in crime - and he's telling it to an outsider? I get that she's his girlfriend...but still.

2) It was common in those days for Italians to hold great disdain for their sons marrying non-Italians. When my paternal grandparents (grandfather Italian, grandmother Irish) were dating in the late 1940s, his father used to refer to her as "Irish" - he would say, "Hey, Irish" when he saw her. When they got married in 1953, the women in the neighborhood came to my great grandmother - his mother - dressed in black and were pouring their sympathy to her - as if her son had died rather than gotten married. I can imagine Vito, as such, being even older than my great grandparents, probably thought his son an embarrassment for dating a non-Italian.

It made for a good scene near the beginning (note the expression on Kay's face), and a good opportunity to introduce us to how Vito got things done in his world. The novel states that Michael was trying to gradually introduce Kay to his family background--she'd have to know those things sooner or later.

In what GF version did Kay light the candles?

In a lead-in to GFII that didn't appear in the theatrical release, Kay is seen lighting candles in church, I believe with her head covered. As you know, in the novel, Kay takes vows in the Catholic Church, much to Michael's disappointment--he wanted his kids to be more "American." But, Kay was following Mama's example: praying daily so "he don't go down there."