I wasn't implying that he was pro gun, or at least I wasn't trying to imply that. I was using the quote (I like what he says, though I don't 100% agree with everything he believes or anyone for that matter) in reference to the point I was trying to get across, obviously failing to do so. Apologies for the confusion

@ foot...they are in jail forever, rightly so...not sure what that has to do with guns though. Lee Rigby was a soldier, on leave as far as I'm aware, certainly not on duty. He was run over then they got to him while he was unconscious. If he was carrying a weapon they no doubt would have took the weapon and shot at the armed response team that turned up...common sense in their eyes, no?

@ Helen, well put...hunting and sport is one thing, accidently bumping into somebody who thinks he's Clint Eastwood is another, and there are many examples. People with guns for "self defence" must, by definition, keep their firearms accessible and loaded at all times. That's not very reassuring...

A bit of a light hearted take on things from Bill Burr...

http://youtu.be/9_Q4wtuxGto

No need for you to apologize Dude. I probably wasn't clear myself so no harm meant.




I believe that there's a world of difference between regular gun owners and what I like to call gun fetishists, or ammosexuals. There's a specific culture here in the US with the second type. They seem to have fantasies that life is a movie and they're John McClane.

This type often will state they need the guns as a defense against the government. Which kind of makes me piss myself laughing. Are hand guns and rifles are supposed to take out MBTs, fighter jets and on and on. This isn’t Iraq or Afghanistan. There aren’t thousands of spare RPGs and artillery rounds for IEDs lying around. Do they think that since there’s X millions of gun owners in this country we can count on most or some hefty percentage of them to rise up spontaneously against the Evil Dictator’s government.

And what would be the signal or the trigger to do so? Who’s going to be in charge? It’s a big country, and folks are scattered everywhere. The few that are organized probably have nearly as many informers as members.




Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. Like Fergie said upthread there are people here that think differently and dont speak up because they have no interest in being told to fuck off, or be screamed at. I'm open for any real discussion on any topic, but have no interest in people just spewing insults, that's not dialogue, it's a circle jerk.

I love him. One of my favorite comedians.

Hellen in this world no one is perfectly safe even in their own homes.

Better not having them if they are locked away in the house.

If I am stupid enough to open the door when a stranger knocks I always have some kind of weapon on me.

Even if the UPS truck stops and the guy is in Uniform with a box.

Why would I do that because I heard of someone who got killed by a guy dress like a UpS guy who drove up in a UPS truck.

I would never kill an animal. I like animals one of my knick names is animal. If I felt in danger by an animal I would rather use a baseball bat on him.

On the guys in jail forever. No chance they will kill a prison guard inside or hurt one bad?

These guys will never get out, there's probably a reasonable chance they would carry out another attack in prison, but Im sure itll be managed appropriately. They are fanatics and did nothing to help their cause...still doesn't mean we all need to get a gun...imagine you took a shot and killed a kid behind them by mistake and they ran off? How would you feel then?

You don't need to answer your door armed all the time! If somebody is determined to execute you on your doorstep, that's the way your going out man, just accept it and leave the gun in the cupboard. Youll blow some poor door salesmans head off one day because he reached for a price list! Then what happens? Yes...you guessed it, you're grabbing your ankles every night in a romantically lit prison cell for your new boyfriend!

It must be very tense at Foots house on Halloween. Doorbell rings...

Trick or treat!

Where's my gat?



God love you Foots, don't ever change

I don't answer the door on Halloween. Neither does my neighbor. My kids come to visit they call first. I don't like surprises.

I guess you missed it some guy in Sweden cut 12 people up with a knife. It's not news worthy in the US.here about it merry old England?

On shooting someone far away. Bad eye sight I need to get real close prefer when standing right behind them next best right in front of them after I pull them inside.

Not newsworthy? I've seen it all over the news today, and the web too. But it was 4 people in the news stories I saw, 2 dead, 2 injured.

A loony with gun would have been able to kill many more.


Sweden doesn't ban guns, hunting is very popular there. they do highly regulate them though.

Real funny there but that still isn't saying much.


The vast majority of legal gun owners are responsible, have never hurt anyone and never will.

Knives and knife attacks I think are fairly common in most european countries, in fact, flick knives are legal, at least in Poland. I was a Krav Maga teacher for a long time and happened to train there for a few weeks at one point, some of the knives that people can carry were entirely designed to maim people...

there's definitely a culture of gun enthusiasts out there. But those aren't the people causing most of the crime and commiting all the murders.

Socal, you are dead right, most gun owners in the US are responsible and I definitely accept that, but that's only by law of averages. The fact is that the constitutional right produces an unacceptable amount of needless fatalities and level of threat which it isn't acceptable to ignore. Im not preaching or saying ban all guns, Im saying make it extremely difficult to own one. Ensure those that want to own a gun should jump through a fair amount of hoops before they can get it. No one should be able to wander around armed, unless they have a specific duty to do so.

How would you feel if rootin, tootin Footreads shot your relative in the face next week because he/she knocked on his door dressed as He-Man?

Of course those people aren't. But the lack of control and restrictions are what allow the heavy flow of illegal guns to get into the hands of the people that are committing those murders.

People will often bring up NY or Chicago as examples of places with tough gun laws that still manage to have enormous amounts of gun violence. But those guns start out legal. They're bought in areas with little control and driven into those cities to be sold on the black market. Neither of those places has border guards and its not hard to get guns purchased in other places with very lax control into the cities. Tougher regulations would help with that. It won't make it non existent of course, but it will help.

Helen, glad you're posting about this, you make far better points than I can...

Thanks. I truly appreciate that.

Edited to add:

I think there are a few common sense things we can do that would allow guns and still greatly reduce some of the issues.

Require a license for every firearm, close the private sale loopholes, and make safe storage a law.

People often use cars as an analogy, as in 'cars kill people but we don't ban them'. We do require insurance on cars though, and you have to prove you can drive to get a license, and you can't sell a car without a government involved title transfer. Those aren't bad ideas for firearms.

But how can you then shoot a stranger at your door? See, I mentioned it earlier with the macho thing, people, mainly guys obviously, don't want you locking up their guns, its like locking up their cock and you get an equivalent response.

The problem is, theres been guys "waving their cocks" legally for 200 odd years on whats now become an archaic "right". Like a lot of good things, the minority will ruin it for the majority but In this case the majority don't even want a compromise (ie tighter control), so they will lose it all one way or another - either through tighter control or more harsh judgements/penalties when they fuck up and shoot somebody innocent. The start will be trespassing laws Ill bet...

look what you wrote here, perhaps the definition of a compromise is different in scotland than america because over here it means that both sides bring things to the table that they're willing to concede, not one side dictating to the other what is still allowed! what is is that the pro-gun control side is willing to give up, because for the life of me i can't ever remember even a single concession ever being offered other than telling us that we get to keep some of the stuff that we already have. that isn't a compromise at all coming from the point of view that we only lose, we don't gain a thing! let me educate you, perhaps something along these lines...

you want some type of universal backround check, whatever the hell that even means, start off by defining it! you want vast mental health evaluation, we want the right to carry in all 50 states! you want an end to private sales? we want the end of the nfa and all the bullshit paperwork and tax stamps required to own suppressors, sbr's, sbs's, select fire ect. until you're willing to bring something to the table other than kindly allowing us poor peasants to keep a portion of our current rights, kindly fuck right off!

While that sounds nice and reasonable, I fail to see how any of that stops a crazy person from entering a gun free zone such as a school and shooting up the place or gang members from using guns to shoot each other .

Having lisences for cars never stopped drive by shootings.
When you get a car lisence, the idea is that you prove you know basic safety and rules of the road.
Most people aren't worried about people not knowing how to properly use guns safety. It is a concern and accidents do happen, but that isn't the main issue.
The issue is malicious intent.

When I bought my handgun, I had to take a short multiple choice test and perform a visual test showing how to safely handle the handgun. Then was given the handgun permit. But that's here in California. Then I had to wait about 10 days and have a background check.
The thing is, I still don't see how any of that stops bad people from doing bad things.

The one point that I think is valid is that guns can be moved to bad areas and cities from areas with less restriction on guns and less crime.
Which is why I have a bit more respect for those that argue against all gun ownership everywhere. Because in order to hurt the firearm black market you'd have to ban all guns and destroy hundreds of millions of guns. And then MAYBE, that will have some sort of effect. I don't know.
I would fight against that tooth and nail, but it makes more sense than these annoying ass laws California keeps passing that ultimately just makes things harder on legal gun owners that aren't criminals. Magazine capacity restrictions, ammo restrictions, conceal carry restrictions, storage restrictions, fees, and on and on. And for what? So criminals can continue doing what they do.

Five, innocent people are being killed every other day by people who honestly didn't mean to do it. You want to stop that, or at least work towards reducing it surely. So you need to compromise. Its not about the government just wanting to take away your rights, ffs and its not about "concessions". Its about common sense. I know your annoyed because I don't live in the US (although Im over there frequently and have family in Boston) and I understand that, but you must see how things are at the moment and wonder why gun crime is through the roof in the US? Its not linked to every man and woman being able to own a gun?

Cut the bravado, cut the macho bullshit and deal with the issue, you know another sandy hook is around the corner, yet you are willing to do fuck all about it just because its your "right".. Your the one who will never compromise and thats the pity I have for you for you and the people who will get killed as a result...crazy

SoCal...a short multiple choice and eyesight test and then you get a gun??...5 year olds do the same and get a certificate to serve milk for fucks sake. Were you not concerned, worried? I suppose fear breeds fear, they've got a knife, so i need a knife, they've got a gun so I need a gun...

pretty much sums things up as far as i'm concerned! i'm done debating people who are so willing to give up the rights of others under a guise of safety and their own interpretation of "common sense"! enjoy relying on and conceding rights to a government who doesn't give a frenchman's fuck about the safety of you or your family!

Well, I only mentioned it because of the comparison with car lisences. Getting a car lisence wasn't all that hard either. Multiple choice questions followed by a short drive showing you know basic rules of the road or whatever.

Let me clear this up. It wasn't an eye sight test. It's a test where you show you can handle the firearm safely. Meaning you know how to check if it's loaded and unloaded, you don't point it at anyone or hold your finger in the trigger guard while handling it and all that basic stuff.

I won't pretend it was hard. It wasn't. Anyone with minimal experience using guns will pass it. But why would I be worried? I had been handling guns much longer before I bought my own. Most people don't just show up and buy a gun with zero experience.

I didn't mean worried personally about passing the test, I meant the realisation that it was easy, you'd ask yourself "how many idiots have guns if its this easy". Don't compare it with cars, c'mon....Footreads is gonna blow your head off if you turn up at his house, he's legal and he says he'll do it..he's not saying he's going to run over the next pedestrian he doesn't like the look of in his car. There's thousands of people who do own funs and feel the same way as Foots..law of averages...

Five, what about the safety of your family when some half blind Clint Eastwood mofo shoots somebody you know (god forbid) by mistake? Still worth it? Or you shoot somebody in the heat of the moment and you made the wrong decision? How do you deal with that, emotionally, financially etc etc? You're carrying a weapon that will definitely kill someone just by a twitch of your finger. Untrained, your a liability, believe me I know.

By that, I mean I'm trained how to use firearms, not that Ive lost a family member through guns...for the record

Why would it worry me?

How many times have I posted that the vast majority of legal gun owners are not a threat in any way.

How many times has it been pointed out that crime overall has declined in America while gun ownership and conceal carrying has increased?

You talk as if all kinds of regular citizens are showing up to gun shops, buying guns and running around shooting people for any reason or they're all shooting themselves on accident.
That's not the case except in a tiny amount of cases.

Arguing to take away guns is a good way to avoid having to think hard and work hard at figuring out the real problems behind violence and murders that do take place.

1) I agree, its the minority, but its a HUGE minority considering the numbers involved.
2) entirely debatably, neither of us can prove beyond a doubt. However I CAN prove innocent people are dying needlessly
3) most aren't, those that shoot themselves by accident i would put down to natural selection...stupid is as stupid does. However, YOU gave them the license.
4) helen hit the nail on the head earlier...if guns are easier to get hold of legally, they are easier to get hold of illegally, basically (apologies if Im summarising incorrectly Helen).

But again, Im cool if you want to keep your guns, grab your dick and feel secure..I'm telling you though, you'll find it more difficult year by year through stricter control, stiffer penalties and media pressure. The government wont just disregard your right, but theres ways to get round it over time. The NRA will be as popular as the KKK in a few years-its an observation, so don't go crazy!