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Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863780
10/19/15 05:03 PM
10/19/15 05:03 PM
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fergie Offline OP
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A gun is designed to kill other humans that's why idiots shouldn't be able to handle them, a knife generally isn't...ones that are, are illegal in any case

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863782
10/19/15 05:30 PM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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So the millions of responsible gun owners out there that have never harmed anyone and never will should not have guns even though criminals will still be able to get guns?

Is that what you want?

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863790
10/19/15 06:06 PM
10/19/15 06:06 PM
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fergie Offline OP
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You seem to think crime against innocent people will increase if guns are made illegal, I don't see where that comes from?

Untrained civilians shouldn't have guns, simple as that. They're more likely to shoot themselves than a burglar if the situation happened

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863793
10/19/15 06:11 PM
10/19/15 06:11 PM
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Well logically, if innocent NON-criminal gun owners turn in their guns and criminals are left to carry guns, how are innocent people supposed to fight back against armed criminals?

Secondly, the main benefit of having an armed community of law abiding citizens owning and carrying guns is the deterrent factor, not the amount of times you wind up actually having to shoot somebody.

Last edited by SoCalGangs; 10/19/15 06:11 PM.
Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863798
10/19/15 06:23 PM
10/19/15 06:23 PM
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fergie Offline OP
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Fight back against armed criminals? You make it sound like the wild west...rarely do any shoot outs occur I would imagine. If someone breaks into your house, firstly you'd be lucky to find your gun, secondly, he's no doubt far more willing to use it than you and, knowing that homeowners are regularly armed, no doubt leads to more getting shot. I don't have a gun and feel perfectly safe...whys that? Because the likelyhood of an armed housebreaker is extremely low-simply because the UK hasn't upped the anti with gun ownership because of some archaic, irrelevant law.

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863804
10/19/15 06:39 PM
10/19/15 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: fergie
Untrained civilians shouldn't have guns, simple as that. They're more likely to shoot themselves than a burglar if the situation happened

this is the type of cookie cutter response that i've come to expect from those who project their own irrational fears and lack of knowledge onto those who they disagree with. just because you aren't comfortable with firearms doesn't mean that others aren't, we have 100 million gun owners here, many of whom are former law enforcement, military, or just grew up with guns and are more than comfortable with their operation. crime has been on a steady decline here in america for decades while the number of guns as well as concealed carry permits has been on a steady rise. the info is out there if you're interested, but knowing how the media in our country portrays gun owners for the most part i'd imagine the impression you get over there is that it's impossible to leave your house here without getting gunned down so stick with the narrative the suites you!

at the end of the day be glad you live in a country where self defense is illegal, i'll be glad i don't. why waste any time trying to preach to AMERICANS on an AMERICAN message board where most of the members are AMERICANS how they should live? how would it go over if i was on a BRITISH message board and did the same?

this pretty much says it all right here, you guys have been totally neutered over there and instead of fighting back, you stick your collective heads in the sand and shit on a still somewhat free country where people are allowed to protect themselves. these next few decades in europe are going to be very interesting, i have a feeling those who harp on our 2nd amendment being outdated are going to have a much different view when achmed gets serious! lol

"The only fully legal self defence product at the moment is a rape alarm."

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q589.htm

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863808
10/19/15 06:48 PM
10/19/15 06:48 PM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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People can, and do defend themselves against home invaders. Not everyone that breaks into your home has a gun either, sometimes they are unarmed or have a knife.
Better to be armed than risk having someone hurt you or your family.
Having a firearm doesn't help or fix every situation but it puts the odds in your favor.

And the most important thing to remember in all this is the deterrent factor. Criminals would rather not hassle breaking into homes where the likelyhood of the victims are armed is high.

Just like mass shooters would rather find a gun free zone where they can murder at will, unchallenged, at least until the guys with guns show up( police).

Last edited by SoCalGangs; 10/19/15 06:50 PM.
Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863810
10/19/15 06:53 PM
10/19/15 06:53 PM
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fergie Offline OP
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You miss the point though, I don't need a gun to feel safe...you seem to though! There's no real threat of gun attacks in the UK...because guns are basically illegal. And as for untrained firearm owners...I've posted the figures before about accidental shootings every year and they are outrageous.

As for posting on a US board...I couldn't care less if you posted on a UK board...if you're offended in anyway because somebody outwith your town has an opinion, tough shit! What's the problem?

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863813
10/19/15 06:58 PM
10/19/15 06:58 PM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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You live in the UK. I grew up in the gang capital of the US.

Even if somebody doesn't approach me with a gun, it's actually fairly common to be approached or threatened with a knife. I rather be legally able to defend myself with a gun than have to fight off a guy with a knife.

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863814
10/19/15 07:03 PM
10/19/15 07:03 PM
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fergie Offline OP
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Well your getting your way....if everybody's got guns there's a chance you'll get a good old fashioned shoot out.

Hopefully you don't draw first, make a mistake and shoot an unarmed guy...you'll be passed around the penetentiary like a peace pipe in no time!

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863816
10/19/15 07:10 PM
10/19/15 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: fergie
guns are basically illegal.

serious question here, how familiar are you with your own laws? i highly doubt you are even a fraction as knowledgeable on them as i am and i don't even live there. examples of uk legal firearms under a section 1 firearms certificate...

ruger 10-22 semi-automatic rifle chambered in .22lr with 25 round bx-25 magazine...



various saiga-12 12 gauge shotguns with detachabke box magazines, as long as the barrel is 24 inches its perfectly legal...



savage model 111 chambered in .338 lapua which is very similar to the gun used to make the longest confirmed kill in history at over 1.6 miles, which funny enough is held by a brit. there might be some cosmetic restrictions as far as muzzle breaks are concerned, but otherwise this rifle is perfectly legal...



one of the many silly long-barrled pistols which along with black powder and certain historical models, are perfectly legal "handguns" in the uk, although regular modern designs are allowed in both the isle of man as well as northern ireland...



It's either blue cheese with wings or go fuck yer mudda!
Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863818
10/19/15 07:14 PM
10/19/15 07:14 PM
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All need to be locked up securely and can be inspected at any time. Also, the actual application process for a gun license is far more rigorous than other countries.

Guns are owned here for target shooting at gun clubs and that's basically it. You don't have Joe public sitting around with 13 guns in their bedroom....

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863819
10/19/15 07:19 PM
10/19/15 07:19 PM
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fergie Offline OP
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I'm not sure what your point is? If you think uk citizens walk about freely with weapons, you obviously don't know much about UK gun law.

I could possibly enquire about a bow and arrow...I'm sure there's some law from the middle ages that would allow me to shoot peasants in the street

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863824
10/19/15 08:19 PM
10/19/15 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: fergie
All need to be locked up securely and can be inspected at any time. Also, the actual application process for a gun license is far more rigorous than other countries.

Guns are owned here for target shooting at gun clubs and that's basically it. You don't have Joe public sitting around with 13 guns in their bedroom....


Lol what does having a law saying that the firearm must be locked up securely have to do with a criminal minded person deciding to use the gun for a crime??

I live in California and we have a similar law. Guns inside the home are supposed be unloaded and locked securely and separate from the ammo.
Brilliant law that stops gang bangers in South Central Los Angeles from shooting at one another.....or not.

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863877
10/20/15 02:21 PM
10/20/15 02:21 PM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/

"The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world and the highest per capita rate of firearm related murders of all developed countries"...

Not entirley sure what else to say...unless the majority of murders are in self defense smile. More guns=more violence...

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863881
10/20/15 03:24 PM
10/20/15 03:24 PM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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But notice how these comparisons always use these bogus term of "developed countries." Which allows you to cherry pick which countries count and don't count. Which is another way of avoiding any other variable besides gun ownership.

It also compares the entire US to many other countries of different sizes in populations and cultures.
If you broke down the US by states or even cities, you'd get a far different picture.

If you think Utah and California are the same, you're wrong.
And if you think Norway and Los Angeles are the same than you're surely mistaken.
We have more in common with Mexico than Europe in many ways.

Please read this:

https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-comparing-us-murder-rates-developed-countries

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863883
10/20/15 03:26 PM
10/20/15 03:26 PM
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There is no sense in even trying to explain anything FF, all she is going to come back with is "we're gun toting hillbillies" blah blah blah. Just another Brit that thinks they are better than us out here drawing guns and pointing them at each other every day just begging to shoot each other. rolleyes

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863891
10/20/15 04:33 PM
10/20/15 04:33 PM
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Not at all Dixie...every other civilised country thinks it's madness that there's so many shootings and massacres but still nothing is done. The macho need to "defend" yourself with a fully automatic weapon against some perceived threat is strange as well...all because of some 200 year old constitutional amendment that was written by guys who owned slaves.

The US is a great country but it's obviously a subject which difficult for you all to agree amongst yourselves with, never mind someone from another country! I suppose if everyone in my street/town owned a gun, Id probably feel the need to have one as well...but it'd hardly reduce the chance of catching a bullet at some point

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863962
10/20/15 11:27 PM
10/20/15 11:27 PM
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The two cities with the highest murder rates--Washington DC and Chicago--were those in which it was impossible for law-abiding citizens to own handguns. The Supreme Court, in two decisions aimed at both cities, finally established that gun ownership is an individual, as well as communal, right.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863967
10/20/15 11:35 PM
10/20/15 11:35 PM
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NYC will be right up to them soon under our mayor


only the unloved hate
Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863969
10/20/15 11:41 PM
10/20/15 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: fergie
The US is a great country but it's obviously a subject which difficult for you all to agree amongst yourselves with, never mind someone from another country!


How is that? It seems most to all Americans on this board agree. It's just you screaming in two different threads about how bad and ignorant we are. I also refuse to fuss with someone who does NOT live here about our laws. You wouldn't understand where we come from nor how we think and why we think that way.

As for your machine gun comment it is actually pretty rare for most Americans to own machine guns. Matter of fact I don't even think I KNOW anyone that owns a machine gun and here in the South EVERYONE owns a gun, but according to you we all have to have one right? rolleyes

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863970
10/20/15 11:57 PM
10/20/15 11:57 PM
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Good ole USA
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Originally Posted By: fergie
Not at all Dixie...every other civilised country thinks it's madness that there's so many shootings and massacres but still nothing is done. The macho need to "defend" yourself with a fully automatic weapon against some perceived threat is strange as well...all because of some 200 year old constitutional amendment that was written by guys who owned slaves.

The US is a great country but it's obviously a subject which difficult for you all to agree amongst yourselves with, never mind someone from another country! I suppose if everyone in my street/town owned a gun, Id probably feel the need to have one as well...but it'd hardly reduce the chance of catching a bullet at some point


Oh fuck off.

Seriously, the last we need is some jerkass telling us how "uncivilized" we are because we believe in the right to bear arms.

You miss one key concept in all this: context. Our Constitution is unlike any other on this earth, provides for checks and balances between the executive, legislative and judicial.

And just for the record, not every Founding Father owned slaves, nor did all condone slavery. The only reason it was allowed to continue was to compromise the Southern delegates.

You also fail to realize they lived in a time where black people were not considered the same as whites. Unfortunate but that's how it was back then. You really think the rights and standards of black African slaves were a priority in 1787?

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863990
10/21/15 03:43 AM
10/21/15 03:43 AM
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fergie Offline OP
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1). I said every OTHER civilised country...the obvious inference there is that the US is also civilised...of course it is! Your just degenerating the discussion
2). It does provide checks and balances but it is over 200 years old and parts are not particularly relevant now
3) I know not every founding father did own slaves or indeed agree with slavery, but some did...the point being, their thoughts and actions were based on an entirely different outlook of the world
4). The need to defend your home against marauding hordes, the plague, lynching slaves, hangings, shootings..."its just the way it was back then"...EXACTLY...so change things to suit todays society and drop the what is now a quasi-macho "right to bear arms"- it's not worth the shootings and massacres on your tv every other day and it is obviously more strict gun control would address this.

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #863991
10/21/15 03:57 AM
10/21/15 03:57 AM
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Im not sure all people on the board do agree...they probably realise they'll get shouted down and accused of all sorts of shit...so it takes an outsider to call it as it is.

Instead of the macho bullshit "how dare he preach to us", why not even consider the other side of the debate? Its not happened once.

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #864083
10/21/15 09:00 PM
10/21/15 09:00 PM
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And fergie, lets turn the clock back for a look at sanitary sewers...what? there weren't' any!? I have to wipe my ass with my hand!? Showers were considered unhealthy up until the 1890s. I'd like my steak without maggots please. What's a dentist? Please pass the Cialis. Walk to school? How many miles? Turn the light on, its' dark in here.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #864099
10/22/15 01:49 AM
10/22/15 01:49 AM
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I don't mind a debate, but I won't continue if my arguments and points are not specifically addressed.

I don't have an issue with trying to see another point of view but all this talk about turning back the clock and the constitution being written in a time when slavery was still in existence doesn't really address any argument or refute anything specifically.

Speaking for myself, my support of citizen gun ownership or the freedom and ability of people to own firearms if they choose to isn't based in the US constitution, or what the founders of the government wanted. Although I'm glade the 2nd amendment exists because it has helped stop the state from restricting our ability to own guns.
But I support gun ownership because I don't support any law or restriction on human liberty. If it reduces freedom than I'm against it. I know people in the UK and other European countries roll their eyes at this talk and that's fine. I put a high value on freedom and human liberty.
There's nothing old or ancient about human freedom. Freedom of choice is a new concept in human history.

Re: Gun Law [Re: SoCalGangs] #864106
10/22/15 07:05 AM
10/22/15 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: SoCalGangs

But I support gun ownership because I don't support any law or restriction on human liberty. If it reduces freedom than I'm against it. I know people in the UK and other European countries roll their eyes at this talk and that's fine. I put a high value on freedom and human liberty.


Agree with this 100%.

This may be a moot point but, if people roll over and allow special interest groups and left wing media to do what they want with the Constitution how soon until other rights are taken away? When Christianity is banned? When it is illegal to say you don't support gay rights? Not being able to speak out against the government? Eventually we will run out of rights to be taken away from us.


"Rights aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges. That's all we've ever had in this country, is a bill of temporary privileges. And if you read the news even badly, you know that every year the list gets shorter and shorter. You see all, sooner or later. Sooner or later, the people in this country are gonna realize the government does not give a fuck about them! The government doesn't care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. It simply does not give a fuck about you! It's interested in its own power. That's the only thing. Keeping it and expanding it wherever possible."- George Carlin


The Dude: And, you know, he's got emotional problems, man.
Walter Sobchak: You mean... beyond pacifism?


Walter Sobchak: This guy f*cking walks. I've never been so sure of anything in my entire life
Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #864110
10/22/15 07:38 AM
10/22/15 07:38 AM
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Lets draw a line under it, keep your guns...just think before you use them though otherwise that 300lb cellmate might have a new bitch for a few years - then it'll only be condoms and relaxation techniques youll have for self defence smile

Re: Gun Law [Re: fergie] #864112
10/22/15 08:53 AM
10/22/15 08:53 AM
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What happened to the good Moslem guys that cut the English cops head off in England a while back?


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Re: Gun Law [Re: thedudeabides87] #864118
10/22/15 11:21 AM
10/22/15 11:21 AM
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Past caring, then hang a left
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Originally Posted By: thedudeabides87


"Rights aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges. That's all we've ever had in this country, is a bill of temporary privileges. And if you read the news even badly, you know that every year the list gets shorter and shorter. You see all, sooner or later. Sooner or later, the people in this country are gonna realize the government does not give a fuck about them! The government doesn't care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. It simply does not give a fuck about you! It's interested in its own power. That's the only thing. Keeping it and expanding it wherever possible."- George Carlin


Carlin also referred to gun enthusiasts as 'dickless' and said that they were 'missing chromosomes and should be thrown screaming from helicopters'

http://youtu.be/TPDuYXGAuBw





Now, as far as even having a national conversation on gun control in the US goes, Dan Hodges summed it all up nicely:

In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.



In the interest of full disclosure- I own guns, 30 of them. Everything from a Sako .22 to a Zanotti 12 gauge. My husband hunts and I was raised in a family that did as well. Not one of these guns would likely help me defend my home, because like any truly responsible gun owner they are kept unloaded and locked in a gun safe. By the time I could get one out and load it, I'd likely already be a victim.

My grandfather was a longtime NRA member who was NY state's rapid fire rifle shooting champion for many years. He was a certified instructor who taught hundreds of people how to shoot. He resigned from the NRA in the late 70s when he felt that it had gone from being primarily a sporting organization to a completely political one.

There are many people like us who own and use guns and don't oppose strict regulations or controls. Owning guns carries with it a heavy responsibility. Not everyone that wants regulation wants a total ban. But no rational person can look at what's going on here and not recognize that there is a problem in this country.

Last edited by helenwheels; 10/22/15 11:41 AM.

All God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?



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