http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/...igan-republican

PSNI: Provisional IRA leadership did not sanction Kevin McGuigan murder
Head of Police Service of Northern Ireland says PIRA still exists as organisation and individual members were involved in killing of former republican prisoner.

The Provisional IRA still exists as an organisation but its leadership did not sanction the murder of former republican prisoner Kevin McGuigan, according to Northern Ireland’s chief constable.

The head of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, George Hamilton, confirmed that individual PIRA members were involved in killing McGuigan.

Hamilton’s confirmation on Saturday that “some PIRA organisational infrastructure continues to exist” will pile further pressure on unionist politicians to pull out of the power-sharing devolved government with Sinn Féin.

In 2005 the PIRA announced publicly through former prisoner Séanna Walsh that it was disbanding its military structures. It was assumed that the organisation had gone out of existence – something which appeared at odds with the chief constable’s assessment.

“We assess that in common with the majority of Northern Ireland paramilitary groups from the period of the conflict, some of the PIRA structure from the 1990s remains broadly in place, although its purpose has radically changed since this period,” Hamilton said.

With the Northern Ireland executive in danger of collapse over allegations the PIRA is still active and killing people, the chief constable held a press conference at PSNI headquarters in Belfast to outline police thinking on the McGuigan murder.

The ex-IRA assassin’s family and republican sources in Belfast insist the PIRA leadership in the city gave the go-ahead to kill McGuigan. PIRA members believed McGuigan was responsible for murdering Gerard “Jock” Davison in May. They killed McGuigan 11 days ago in revenge for the Davison murder.

The PSNI chief constable insisted the PIRA’s organisational structure was there primarily for “promoting a peaceful political republican agenda”.

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However, he said: “Some current Provisional IRA and former members continue to engage in a range of criminal activity and occasional violence in the interest of personal gain or personal agendas.”

Hamilton declined to answer questions if any senior PIRA members connected to the McGuigan murder had links to Sinn Féin’s leadership. He also refused to discuss if any of individual PIRA members with knowledge of the killing once held senior command positions in the organisation.

He said: “We have no information to suggest that violence, as seen in the murder of Kevin McGuigan, was sanctioned or directed at a senior level in the republican movement.”

The chief constable rejected suggestions that the PSNI had come under political pressure in determining that the PIRA leadership did not sanction or organise the killing in the Short Strand district on 12 August.

Gregory Campbell, the Democratic Unionist MP for East Derry,has warned that “there can be no question of devolution continuing” if there is a proven link between McGuigan’s murder and any reconstituted PIRA command structure.

But Sinn Féin president, Gerry Adams, denied the PIRA had been behind the killing and instead chose to attack those who suggested the organisation had carried out McGuigan’s murder. Adams criticised those who had “opportunistically and cynically seized” on the murder to “undermine Sinn Féin’s mandate and the peace process”.

During the chief constable’s press conference, he attempted to link the murder to a group called Action Against Drugs, which he said not only included PIRA members but also ordinary criminals and dissident republicans opposed to the peace process. However a source close to the New IRA told the Guardian that anti-ceasefire republicans played no part in killing Kevin McGuigan.

One man with one-time close links to PIRA and Sinn Féin has been remanded in custody over the possession of a Glock automatic pistol that was discovered at a house in west Belfast during police searches connected to the McGuigan murder investigation.

Why do we have 3 constant threads on an organised crime forum which seems to pay tribute to terrorists?


Truly pathetic!

This is what Irish Catholics have to put up with from Protestant loyalists in Ireland. In the year 2015.

Are you suffering from mental health problems?


Yet again we can all post crap to suit our point of view, firstly there is no such thing as 'catholics' you mean Roman Catholics?

The FACT that the republican movement killed many Roman Catholics seems to be lost on the rabid nuts who really have no idea of the real history they profess to love!

Including the fact that the Irish state shot 77 IRA men during the civil war compared to the 24 shot by the British, so yet again the truth is something different to the republican lies.....

Also there is no such country as Ireland, the 1921 partition led to the free state and NORTHERN IRELAND

Yet again I suggest if there is any admin on this page they deal with the promotion of terrorism on here and we just stick to organised crime posts ???

Saying those threads pay tribute to terrorists is like saying the rest of the threads here pay tribute to organized criminals. abc123 could probably pursue legal action for what you're saying. So shut up.

The LVF, UVF, UDA and other Protestant loyalist terrorist organizations have killed many Protestants. What on earth are you babbling about?

It's one country, the island of Ireland.

Again, before you start falsely saying that people are sympathizing with terrorists and cause trouble for yourself, I would, kindly, ask you to refrain from making an ass out of yourself any more than you already have.

At least the provisional IRA target drug dealers and not children, like Protestant terrorist organizations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinn_brothers%27_killings

Protestant loyalists burn three children to death.

Edit: Just looked through the threads you refer to and they also have posts about loyalist terrorists and terror groups.

All terrorists are scum, all terrorists are cowards, all terrorists kill and murder innocent people.

Those who try and make them out to be otherwise are filth.


This has NOTHING to do with an organised crime forum.


Simple enough for you!!!!!!!!

I completely agree with you RE: terrorists.

And come to think of it this thread is unnecessary - but the fact is they resemble an organised crime faction more so than a terrorist group these days.

And the other threads you refer to deal with Irish organized crime, not terrorism, so it's hard to decipher what you are so crotchety about.

And I reiterate again, how is anyone glorifying crime or terrorism of any kind on this forum?

But in Ireland many terrorists and former terrorists have gone into drug business, they interact with gangsters, kill them or take contracts from them, or put out contracts to gangsters to kill other gangsters etc. I mean, all those terrorist organizations are part of the organized crime scene. Pat Nee from the Boston Irish mob had contact with the IRA too I think.

Precisely.

Eastern European gangs are of more concern to them than the British monarchy these days.

I would rather not have these arguments as I enjoy this forum, could I ask that people understand there are people who don't need this to be honest.

If you must could I respectfully ask that it's just kept on the Irish thread although not sure why there are 3 when it's just all the same stuff.

Again could I ask that you delete this thread and post it in the Irish thread ?

I would be grateful

Former leader of the Protestant terrorist group the U.D.A., James "Doris Day" Gray, left his son to die in agony in Bangkok, Thailand after bringing him to a drugs and hookers party with transsexual Thai prostitutes.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/imported/coward-gray-cowered-as-son-died-in-agony-28219468.html

These are the kinds of people making lives hell for law abiding Irish Catholics and Protestants.

Lot of sick fucks on all sides, Gerry Adams covered up for child abuse by his brother on his niece


Can point score against each other all day long, this is pointless though!

You know what I find ironic about the prevalence of hate crimes towards the Polish community and the Chinese community in the North of Ireland? The people responsible for the hate crimes are overwhelmingly Protestant and/or Loyalist.

It's not even their country and they are telling other ethnic groups to get out.

The idiots can't even get the Irish flag right. They burn more Italy and Ivory Coast flags on the 12th of July than they do Irish ones.

Idiots...

If you say so!



Dear oh dear.....

You don't even live on the island of Ireland. I have done. I am in a more authoritative position than you are.

I come from generations of Ulster folk, lost 3 members of my family to sectarian murderous terrorist scum.

Known lots of others who were murdered, so please do not lecture me!!!!

What do you have to say about three children burned to death for no other reason other than they were Catholic - even though their mother converted to Protestantism to try and avoid the sectarianism and racism?

What do you have to say about the defenceless unarmed men, women and children shot down by British armed forces on Bloody Sunday?

Don't lecture me, British.

Most Irish people just want to get on with their lives. It's the other side who can't and won't let it go.

Hence the 12th July parades, burning effigies and Irish flags on bonfires, marching through Catholic neighborhoods singing sectarian songs, intimidating schoolchildren and writing "Kill All Taigs" on their children's foreheads (seriously).

http://www.thejournal.ie/psni-investigating-girl-with-kill-all-taigs-paint-1570811-Jul2014/

Hate breeding hate.

Loyalist terrorists or IRA terrorists, what's the difference from the moral point of view? I mean, when the Colombo war between Persico and Orena broke out, who would you people be rooting for? It's scumbags against scumbags. The martyrs and heroes in this story are the killed civilians, both Protestants and Catholics.

I understand that for whoever lives or lived in Britain or Ireland it may also be a political matter, but morally I fail to see any difference between all those terrorist groups, no matter what political ideology they use to cover up their crimes.

I think Dwalin should have the final word as neither of us can put it any better than that TBH.

I agree. Both sides in Northern Ireland have dirty hands.

I see what you did there.

Some person on this thread who never reads the Irish OC ? but is never off the Irish threads WHAT A JOKE.

THERE is a number of threads on shooting hits taking place in Canada they are never on the same thread about Canada are they ?

Any posts from Ireland is from the MSM and are what is in the news at the time.

There's a reason why the Pope didn't visit the U.S. until the sixties.

Did you know official Catholic doctrine towards Protestants described them as heretics and therefore should be burned at the stake until 1959?

Of course the Church hadn't been practicing that policy for years but it was still there nonetheless.

Anti-Catholic sentiment in the United States and England stems from years of threats and abuse from the Church and majority Catholic countries. Think of Spain trying to invade England in 1588, or King Louis XIV revoking the Edict of Nantes putting thousands of Huguenot Protestants at risk. Many immigrants to the United States were persecuted Protestants from Germany.

Obviously both sides have committed atrocities towards the other. No one side is innocent, but anti Catholic sentiment is not without its roots from very bloody times.

Moe you have to realize that much.

Is there any truth to the rumour that Loyalist and Republican gangs are working with each other in the fuel laundering rackets in Northern Ireland?

Also what's the current status of the RIRA in the south, are they still extorting Dublin drug gangs or did that all stop when Alan Ryan was killed?

http://www.herald.ie/news/suspect-in-bmx...s-31481164.html

Suspect in BMX shooting paying 'protection money' to dissidents.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gar...a-31496291.html

Gardai are following the 'money trail' linked to IRA.

Garda Commissioner Noirín O'Sullivan has assured the Government the force will continue to "follow the money trail" linked to former Provisional IRA members who are involved in criminality.

Ms O'Sullivan was called to Government Buildings to brief Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Tánaiste Joan Burton amid growing concern over claims from the PSNI that the PIRA still exists.
Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald and Foreign Affairs Minister Charlie Flanagan also attended the meeting, ahead of their crunch talks with the Secretary of State to Northern Ireland, Theresa Villiers.
Ms O'Sullivan and Ms Fitzgerald also met on Monday to discuss the fallout from the Provo controversy ahead of the meeting with the Taoiseach.
Well-placed sources said the Commissioner yesterday briefed Mr Kenny and his Cabinet colleagues on ongoing Garda operations relating to former members of the terrorist organisation.
It was pointed out that the Criminal Assets Bureau (CAB) have a number of cases before the Special Criminal Courts involving former members of the Provisional IRA.
"We outlined the success we had with CAB in targeting people who had associations with PIRA and who, since the peace process, are involved in criminality - there have been significant successes in this area," a source told the Irish Independent.
The source added: "These guys have been involved in criminality for a long time. They are well used to channelling funds through different accounts, different companies and different fronts. The difficulty is following that money trail."
An Garda Síochána's work on cracking down on dissident republicans was also highlighted during the meeting.
Discussions between gardaí and the PSNI on the murder of Kevin McGuigan in Belfast was also raised.
After the meeting, Mr Kenny said it was clear from the PSNI's views that IRA members remained involved in criminality - but not terrorist activity.
He also attacked Sinn Féin by referring to the use of "safe houses" by members of the republican movement to cover up sexual abuse.
Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams hit back at the Taoiseach and warned him not to "play politics" with the murders of Mr McGuigan and Gerard 'Jock' Davison.
Mr Flanagan raised the possibility of bringing back the Independent Monitoring Commission to Northern Ireland after meeting with Ms Villiers, who also supported the proposal.
Irish Independent

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cab...ity-351162.html

CAB to give overview of republican criminal activity.

The Criminal Assets Bureau (CAB) is to supply an updated analysis of republican criminal activity to the high-level Garda assessment on the status of the Provisional IRA.

CAB will provide a report on organised crime gangs operated by members and associates of the IRA and an assessment of where the tens of millions of euro earned by it is going.

The development comes as Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald again questioned where the profits earned by republican gangs end up.

Last week, she requested a “fresh assessment” by gardaí into the status of IRA activities following PSNI statements that members were suspected of involvement in the murder of former IRA prisoner John McGuigan.

Security sources said CAB assessments to date have not found evidence of the IRA’s continuing existence as a criminal organisation. CAB has targeted current and former IRA figures, some of whom head organised gangs earning tens of millions of euro from fuel laundering and cigarette smuggling.

Agency experts attempt to follow the “money trail”, much of which goes abroad.

They try to estimate how much goes to the crime gang, how much goes to dissident republicans and, if any, how much goes to the IRA.

Senior sources confirmed that CAB will provide an updated report for the new assessment.

As part of Operation Loft, targeting IRA figure Thomas ‘Slab’ Murphy in 2013, an estimated €1.1m was frozen in bank accounts by CAB.

In July 2014, Leonard Hardy, an IRA bomber, was convicted of failing to pay tax returns valued at €280,000. He is repaying CAB almost €500,000 based on earnings from cigarette smuggling.

Last January, he and his wife Donna, also a former IRA member, were arrested in Spain in an operation resulting in the seizure of €5.5m.

Meanwhile, former head of the Garda Special Branch Kevin Donohoe said: “There is no doubt republican activity and criminality is thriving, but it’s a long way from that to saying the Provisional IRA is operating in southern Ireland.”

Based on his time as chief superintendent of the Special Detective Unit, between 2009 and 2013, he said the “Provisional IRA didn’t, and doesn’t, exist, as it did previously”.

How do you mean? The protestants have been living in Ireland for generations. It's not like they just came over six months ago.

(btw ABC, I read everything you post on this stuff, thanks a bunch man)

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ira-was-most-ruthless-killing-6399424

RA 'was the most ruthless killing machine in the western world', Northern Assembly told.

Democratic Unionist peer Lord Maurice Morrow spoke the words during a debate on the killing of Kevin McGuigan in Belfast.

The IRA was the most ruthless killing machine in the western world, the Assembly has been told.

Members debated the killing of Kevin McGuigan in Belfast by members of the Provisional IRA last month.

Democratic Unionist peer Lord Maurice Morrow said the organisation had been responsible for four murders since the ceasefires which were supposed to have ended the decades-long conflict in Northern Ireland.

"No one needs any reminding of the ruthlessness of the Provisional IRA, the most ruthless killing machine in the whole of the western world."

He said now was a "watershed" moment for Northern Ireland.

He was debating a motion on the killings of Mr McGuigan and Jock Davison in the Stormont Assembly.

"This is not the first murder, this is four of recent times excluding those that have gone before that."

Others he connected to the IRA included the killings of Robert McCartney in 2005 and Paul Quinn in 2007.

Ulster Unionist Mike Nesbitt said his members would not be voting in the Assembly debate.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) has said the IRA still exists but Sinn Fein has said it went away a decade ago.

Mr Nesbitt said: "Sinn Fein and the PSNI need to be on the same page about the condition of the IRA in 2015 otherwise there is no confidence, there is no trust, there is no credibility."

Senior Sinn Fein member Gerry Kelly said it was a pseudo-crisis manufactured by political unionism and that the IRA left the stage in 2005 and was not coming back.

"Whosoever was involved in those killings, whatever connection they may claim to Irish republicanism, they are criminals who have been involved in murder."