Facing life imprisonment without the possibility of parole and unless you have blood family members in the life there are simply no disadvantages of flipping, in witness protection you won't get hit and you can start a new life.

There is probably numerous wiseguys collecting evidence right now for "insurance purposes" so they got something to give to the feds in a cooperation deal if they are ever facing serious time.

I know in that life being a rat is totally humiliating and too disgraceful for some to flip BUT omerta died with Massino and that dude was old school.

For most of the top guys like Nigro and Tommy Shots it is unthinkable but what about the lowly soldier that nobody gives a fuck about...those ones are doing life and are now the forgotten...nobody remembers them....or gives a fuck about them if they do remember.

So back to my question: What is the point of being a standup guy nowadays?

In one sentence you say Omertà died with Massino and then you follow it up referencing Nigro and Shots.

The facts are most guys take the pinch.

Even Soldiers (think Nicodemo).

WHY they do it is the question. Rolling still isn't a dream. It means you've lost your whole life up to that point. Now granted it's better than a life bid, but it's no walk in the park either.
Look at how many guys drop out of the WPP.

So whilst the motive to flip is still there it's not completely one sided.

Saying omerta being dead is a bit of an exaggeration on my part.

Guys drop out of the WPP because it is very restrictive and the chances of getting whacked are very slim at best anyway.

I person who would post this question would never be trusted especially by someone with a paranoid personality. They might let you do something if they actually thought you would do it, but you will never do another because you won't be around after it. Then they will get someone new there is always someone new to take your place

You're born with a loyalty gene or you aren't. It can't be taught. It has to be instinctual. And most of these guys have it.

The overwhelming majority of wiseguys DON'T flip, even in a weakened 21st Century LCN. And the other thing is, you only read about the rats. You rarely read about a local soldier or even an occasional skipper when they take a plea of 7 to 10 and go away quietly. Not unless you're a local, like myself, Bronx and few other guys, or a mob groupie who reads every single press release (and I'm not mocking that, I've always commended our researchers here).

You either have it or you don't. You understand it or you don't.

Yes, and that can be said about almost everything Mafia related. Guys who don´t get it and can´t grasp what it is all about, ask stupid questions and draw ridicolous conclusions. And there has been a lot of this lately.

Neo=Wilson?

Well put.

This is something I've been saying for years every time somebody says something about "everybody flipping nowadays." It may seem that way, because the media focuses so much on them and because most of those who have flipped have come in the last 25 years, but compared to the ones who haven't flipped over the same time period, the number of actually very small.

Only standup guys will keep making money in a life of crime with other standup guys till they die.

Those were the days my Friend, I thought they would never end. They did - Damn it!

Now that they are doing less murders, there will be less life sentences handed down, less reason for people to flip.

Very well said.

I'm thinking this crazy muthafucking Isis will having the feds of the t
Lcns ass. This July 4 weekend them old and new guys will be cooking out scheming well the feds will be watching for Muslims crazies. watching CNN these guys are making there own country in Iraq. Then hilerary comes in as next pres and she'll run amok.

To answer the question the point of being standup is everything. Everything being trusted to make money till the end.

Older guys believe in the oath. The life is their RELIGON ! They don't RAT ! Do the time and hold their water. What is the ratio of guys who flipped born pre 1960 as to guys born post 1960 ?

Lets not get into an era argument, the old timers weren't facing RICO or big offensives by the feds.

No way of knowing if some of the old timers would have flipped or not.

He's only here to stir the pot. He's been here before.

November 12th, bad for your health. Good luck at trial, DickNose.

do you think Wenjue Liu will be a standup guy, or will he fold faster than the south vientamese army in 1975?

#hello grateford

Nah, Jack's the rat. Five-year adjournment on these charges? He already cut a deal. Guaranteed.

Hey jack good luck getting ass raped by some big black dude in prison. Maybe it won't happen but you certainly deserve it

The guy was obvious for two days now,asking q about the west side and stuff..I thought Pb that you were leading him on.

I was smarter in my crib than he is at thirty. I knew it was him from his first post, and so did everyone at BHF, where, as you know, he's no longer allowed to post. And it's much more difficult to sneak back there than it is here, so I'd like to let him know that everyone wishes him the worst come November .

This guy is a piece of work really,hes real determened.F idiot.Didnt see that on the other place just here.

Neo is the one giving HK problems? PB I tried to PM you, but you no longer are accepting PM. I apologize to the J Geoff and mods if this was inappropriate of me to ask that question here.

He's also BROOKLYN2NASSAU. And he was warned to stay out of my posts, yet he just posted nonsense in the Angelo Prisco thread to get a rise out of me. Childish scumbag that he is.

<sigh> What's the point of a thread like this nowadays?

Sorry, Maybe I am just getting a tad frustrated over the sentiment i have been getting on this board as of late of the assumption most mob guys, or the majority of wiseguys, are rats. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

Now to your points PB....you are correct...you got it or you don't. And this just isn't for mob guys, it is in general.

Two your second point, this is something we have agreed on in the past and you know my feelings on it, so I don't need to expound further.

You're Aces with me, Blackjack. You know that. The guy who started this thread is DickNose's latest incarnation. Enough said.

I can't. I get too many nuts coming back to taunt me. But I'll open it tomorrow and send you a pm. Then you reply, and when we're done with our exchange I'll lock it back up.

That guy again? Geez. I didn't even think of that. I can't keep up with some of these guys I don't know how theyy have the time to do it.

It makes sense now though looking back on some of his posts

My NZ ip addresses (both desktop & mobile) do not match any other accounts on this forum.

I am not DickNose or anyone else.

I'm just a curious mob watcher and have been for years but never in the forums until now. Before this forum it was only Jerry's column, wikipedia and articles to fan my interest.

ME - not multi-accounter.