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Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851419
07/14/15 06:54 PM
07/14/15 06:54 PM
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Faithful what Lincoln said has everything to do with this, you all act like the CSA was the only country at the time that supported slavery, yet slaves were held under the American flag FOR YEARS and still was when the Southern states started secession.

Even the great Lincoln that many people claim saved the black race said black people were not on the same level as whites. I'm not saying this mind you, I'm telling you what was said then. If this was just about slavery only, then why didn't Lincoln bring it up right away when he was elected?

Basically my point is why is there no outcry over the stars and bars? After all we owned slaves for many years under that flag and LONG before the CSA was started. Where is the outcry there? Why are we only going after one flag?

I'll long say and continue to say that if you are not from the South, or grew up in the South, then you have no idea what that flag REALLY means to people here. I've seen white and black fly it for years and never have I used the flag or seen it and thought "slavery or racism". Only people with an agenda see something wrong with it. I don't want to hear the KKK shit or the AB shit because we are all educated enough (except one or two) to know that the flag was chosen by the idiots to push their cause.

But I want to hear from everyone that is calling the flag racist and the fact slaves were owned under it as to why there is no outrage on the American flag that killed innocent Indians and pushed them from their land and even owned and beaten slaves under it as well???

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Alfa Romeo] #851433
07/14/15 08:20 PM
07/14/15 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
Yes, the value system was the same Binnie, but people change...and countries evolve. The North descended from the Mayflower just like the South did, but they evolved.

I would even go so far as to say that the South may have shared all but one value in common with the original 13 colonies (half located in the North East btw), and that was the South's willingness to break up the Union to make a point. One of the main values of the original founders was the importance of maintaining the Union.

Now we all here might disagree on what that point was, whether it was the right to hold onto their enslaved captives, or something else.


Really not trying to pick a fight, but the north had a larger population and was mostly industrialized, meaning they didn't need slavery unlike the south which was more rural and into agriculture. If you are going to feed the entire nation which is mainly where produce was coming from at the time, you need the manpower to harvest thousands of acres of land. NOT trying to defend slavery just pointing out the facts.


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851438
07/14/15 09:11 PM
07/14/15 09:11 PM
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A major difference between the CSA and the USA is that the CSA was formed for the perpetuation of slavery. That's it. The USA was formed for freedom from tyranny. Yes, many people owned slaves when the USA was formed, including the first president and some of the writers of the Constitution and Declaration. However, as Lincoln, and even more significant, Frederick Douglass, pointed out, the Declaration contained the seeds of freedom that helped fuel the abolition of slavery. Douglass appealed to assertions of natural rights and freedoms in the Declaration as the basis (along with God and reason) to end slavery. He called for those rights to apply to everyone and not just white citizens. I suggest that everyone read Douglass's Independence Day speech given in 1852 -- thirteen years before slavery was finally banned.
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/douglassjuly4.html

To respond to your statements, specifically:
1. I never said or acted like the CSA was the only country to have slavery. Slavery has existed all over the world for thousands of years. Those other countries that had slavery, however, have nothing to do with any Confederate flag. Even the designer of the flag, William T. Thompson, called it "the white man's flag." The battle flag actually became the basis for the SECOND official CSA flag in 1863.
2. As I wrote earlier, what Lincoln said isn't relevant since the Southern slave states started leaving the Union BEFORE he was sworn in as President AND the CSA was formed for the perpetuation of slavery. The USA was not formed for the perpetuation of slavery. In fact, there are items in the Constitution that put limits on slavery, such as the ban on importing slaves in 1808 and the 3/5 of a person clause (it wasn't to deny the personhood of black slaves, it was because the Southern states wanted their black slaves to count for purposes of representation while they denied them the right to vote, the opponents said that if they couldn't vote then why should they count as citizens? The result was a compromise).
3. Well, some people are going after the Stars and Bars. The difference is, however, that the USA realized its wrong and tried to fix the problem, but the CSA didn't think that the problem of slavery was wrong or a problem and formed because it liked anti-black racism and slavery.
4. Okay, we'll ignore the KKK and AB for this point. I will agree with you that many white people and some black people don't see racism in the flag. However, go along with me on this one...try to look at it from the point of view who only saw the bad side of the flag.

First, remember that the flag was created by CSA people and the CSA, like it or not, only existed to keep slavery and racism going. After the Civil War, veterans of the CSA started using the battle flag in their get-togethers. (I know that most CSA soldiers did NOT own slaves, but they still fought for a government that existed because of racism and slavery.)

Second, remember that the CSA battle flag was used by the Dixiecrats in 1948. The Dixiecrats wanted the continuation of racist Jim Crow laws and if they didn't support lynching, couldn't care less when it happened. Remember too, there are plenty of people still alive today who were alive in 1948. They're old, but they shared their stories with their children and grandchildren.

Third, remember that Georgia and Mississippi changed their state flags to include the CSA battle flag after the 1954 school integration ruling (Brown v Board of Education). For them, the battle flag was a protest against integration. They wanted to keep black children in poor, inferior schools. There are even more people alive today who were there when those states changed their flags in 1956. So the flag represented a continuation of Jim Crow laws in the South.

Fourth, most Jim Crow laws were only officially ended in 1964 with the second Civil Rights Act. I was a year old when it passed, so there are plenty of people still around who remember Jim Crow laws. Less than a month before I was born, Birmingham, Alabama mayor Theophilus Eugene "Bull" Connor ordered police to use firehoses and dogs to attack CHILDREN who were peacefully protesting Jim Crow laws. Prior to this, Connor closed down all public parks rather than integrate them. The attack on the children was televised all over the country and it made viewers see with their own eyes the brutality of Jim Crow. It was so bad that even the citizens of Birmingham voted Bull Connor out of office less than two weeks later. Even then, the last Jim Crow-style law, against interracial marriage, was not struck down until 1967.

Fifth, I know I said I would leave out the KKK, but it's relevant here. In the 1950s and 1960s the KKK was active in the South and KILLED PEOPLE. They weren't just a bunch of nutjobs, but were dangerous. And yes, the flag was associated with them too. Recall I what I wrote about the Jim Crow laws being overturned in 1964 and 1967. Separate from that, white attitudes didn't change overnight. Anti-black racism was still dominant and the KKK at that time included police officers, lawyers, judges and mayors. Today it may be limited to a bunch of losers, but back then it had people with power. That's why when people were lynched, like Emmett Till, nobody was prosecuted. I urge you to read up on Jim Crow and how it controlled all aspects of black life in the South.

The point of all this: try to put yourself in the shoes of those who do see it as a symbol of slavery and racism. Try to imagine their experiences. After you do that, see if those who are against the flag are just a bunch of left-wingers with an agenda. Don't forget that the previous conservative Republican governor of South Carolina, David Beasley called for removing the flag in 1998. He wasn't re-elected.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Faithful1] #851497
07/15/15 09:44 AM
07/15/15 09:44 AM
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@Faithful

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/douglassjuly4.html

Good read thanks for sharing


The Dude: And, you know, he's got emotional problems, man.
Walter Sobchak: You mean... beyond pacifism?


Walter Sobchak: This guy f*cking walks. I've never been so sure of anything in my entire life
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851533
07/15/15 01:04 PM
07/15/15 01:04 PM
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the confederate flag ain't even your states flag so why so much anger?

just go to the gas station and buy a confederate flag or wash the one u already own

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851579
07/15/15 06:45 PM
07/15/15 06:45 PM
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I respectfully disagree with the above statements about the CSA. The southern states seceded due to economic strangulation by the the industrial north....it had nothing to do with slavery whatsoever. And in all honesty, Lincoln only "used" slavery as an issue in order to create havoc in the south.
Furthermore, if we're going to say the the confederate flag is a symbol of hate and should be banned, then let's immediately get rid of all white sheets.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: dixiemafia] #851595
07/15/15 07:29 PM
07/15/15 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
Faithful what Lincoln said has everything to do with this, you all act like the CSA was the only country at the time that supported slavery, yet slaves were held under the American flag FOR YEARS and still was when the Southern states started secession.

Even the great Lincoln that many people claim saved the black race said black people were not on the same level as whites. I'm not saying this mind you, I'm telling you what was said then. If this was just about slavery only, then why didn't Lincoln bring it up right away when he was elected?

Basically my point is why is there no outcry over the stars and bars? After all we owned slaves for many years under that flag and LONG before the CSA was started. Where is the outcry there? Why are we only going after one flag?

I'll long say and continue to say that if you are not from the South, or grew up in the South, then you have no idea what that flag REALLY means to people here. I've seen white and black fly it for years and never have I used the flag or seen it and thought "slavery or racism". Only people with an agenda see something wrong with it. I don't want to hear the KKK shit or the AB shit because we are all educated enough (except one or two) to know that the flag was chosen by the idiots to push their cause.

But I want to hear from everyone that is calling the flag racist and the fact slaves were owned under it as to why there is no outrage on the American flag that killed innocent Indians and pushed them from their land and even owned and beaten slaves under it as well???


yes, you are absolutely right, the American flag has more blood on it than the confederate flag has ever had.

slavery was as vicious or more vicious under the first 15 presidents as it ever was anywhere, franklin pierce sent the army to boston to bring back a runaway slave, making sure he would stay a slave forever, that was under the American flag.

Andrew Jackson marched thousands of Indians to their death in the march of tears, all under the American flag.

George washingtons wife gave a slave away to her niece, the slave never saw her family again as long as she lived.
what about wounded knee where Indians were slaughtered, under the American flag.
the point being they were both wrong, but, the confederate flag was no worse than the American flag.

all the blood, and wrongdoing has been hidden under the American flag with myths, and undeserved memorials, if you take down the confederate flag, take down the American flag as well.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: oldschool3] #851614
07/15/15 08:43 PM
07/15/15 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: oldschool3
I respectfully disagree with the above statements about the CSA. The southern states seceded due to economic strangulation by the the industrial north....it had nothing to do with slavery whatsoever. And in all honesty, Lincoln only "used" slavery as an issue in order to create havoc in the south.
Furthermore, if we're going to say the the confederate flag is a symbol of hate and should be banned, then let's immediately get rid of all white sheets.


Did you read the links I provided from the Confederate states themselves? They all say it did have something to do with slavery. In fact they say the CSA had a lot to do with slavery. This isn't my word on it, it's their words on it.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851620
07/15/15 09:56 PM
07/15/15 09:56 PM
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How did a racist murdering black people at a church suddenly made white people give a shit about the Confederate flag?

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #851629
07/15/15 10:27 PM
07/15/15 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
How did a racist murdering black people at a church suddenly made white people give a shit about the Confederate flag?



Who says white people suddenly gave a shit about the Confederate flag?

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Faithful1] #851634
07/15/15 10:56 PM
07/15/15 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Faithful1
Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
How did a racist murdering black people at a church suddenly made white people give a shit about the Confederate flag?



Who says white people suddenly gave a shit about the Confederate flag?


6 months ago you wouldn't have the Dems and Repubs in the House of Representatives fighting over flying that rag in federal parks/cemetaries. And since most members of Congress are white...

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #851635
07/15/15 11:14 PM
07/15/15 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
Originally Posted By: Faithful1
Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
How did a racist murdering black people at a church suddenly made white people give a shit about the Confederate flag?



Who says white people suddenly gave a shit about the Confederate flag?


6 months ago you wouldn't have the Dems and Repubs in the House of Representatives fighting over flying that rag in federal parks/cemetaries. And since most members of Congress are white...


Guess you didn't notice the part where I wrote: Don't forget that the previous conservative Republican governor of South Carolina, David Beasley called for removing the flag in 1998.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Faithful1] #851637
07/16/15 12:13 AM
07/16/15 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Faithful1

Guess you didn't notice the part where I wrote: Don't forget that the previous conservative Republican governor of South Carolina, David Beasley called for removing the flag in 1998.


You didn't refute my point at all. Not one bit. You should try to read what I write next time.

All I'm saying is that this topic wasn't even on the friggin agenda months ago, now it's a cause that each side is animated by. It's really crazy how a massacre happens then very shortly afterwards that flag gets removed from the S.C. capitol grounds and people stop selling flag and DUKES OF HAZZARD gets pulled from TV...what the fuck?

Those flags will go back on sale in 6 months or so once this debate fades away in favor of another event that stirs up debate on a whole other issue. The General Lee will come back to TV.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851639
07/16/15 12:50 AM
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If it was on the agenda 17 years ago, then yeah, it does refute your point. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 52 and I've seen it go on the agenda many times.

The reason for the current agenda is clear. The NAACP has had a boycott against South Carolina since it put up the flag in 1990 and for the reasons I explained is hurtful to many African Americans, especially those who lived through Jim Crow. Because that punk who murdered those people in a Bible study in church posted himself with the Confederate flag it gave ammunition to that cause. Governor Nikki Haley saw doing this as an opportunity to outreach and for healing, and both Republican senators agreed, as well as most members of state's congress. They only sought to remove it from government property.

To me it's a separate issue if someone wants to have it privately; it's a right whether or not anyone else has an issue with it. The BlackLivesMatters crowd and anarchists like to push things too far. It helps that they are financially backed by billionaire George Soros, who funds every anti-American cause. It's only the extremists who try to force businesses to ban all uses of the flag, even for collectors. They are well-funded and well-organized, not just with protesting but MoveOn.org (another Soros-funded group) does massive emailing campaigns to get them to bend to their will.

As for "The Dukes of Hazard" going back on TV, it may depend on which party wins the presidency. Even then, this country is moving in very leftward turn which may mean that "Dukes" will never return to TV. I'm surprised they haven't tried to get "All in the Family" or "The Jeffersons" taken off the air yet, but they may soon enough.

And to those who say that people should go after the American flag too, like I said, here they are: http://www.illwriteit.com/nocturnus-libertus-launches-campaign-to-defecate-on-us-flag/

Last edited by Faithful1; 07/16/15 12:58 AM.
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: dixiemafia] #851762
07/17/15 02:41 AM
07/17/15 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
Even the great Lincoln that many people claim saved the black race said black people were not on the same level as whites.


Yes that was said on his part. But he was a politician. Do we really know the intent of his words in speaking that way during a time when America was filled with concentration camps and extrajudicial executions? The atmosphere back then was paranoia. Many people passed for white, and might have pretended to be racist, when in fact neither representation on their part was true. Many people were part Indian, like Elvis Presley, who was a half breed.

Take a look at this photo...

Jacob Lincoln

The man above was Abraham Lincoln's 1st cousin. Does that look like a white man? I am not so sure it does.

Look at this one...

The President's Brother, Wesley Enlow

The photo above is of President Lincoln's brother. Does that look like a white man? Not to me it doesn't.

So I don't read too much into the President's racist comments. The main point was that he freed the slaves.

Is Barack Obama the first Black President? I am not so sure about that either.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Alfa Romeo] #851779
07/17/15 10:37 AM
07/17/15 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
Even the great Lincoln that many people claim saved the black race said black people were not on the same level as whites.


Yes that was said on his part. But he was a politician. Do we really know the intent of his words in speaking that way during a time when America was filled with concentration camps and extrajudicial executions? The atmosphere back then was paranoia. Many people passed for white, and might have pretended to be racist, when in fact neither representation on their part was true. Many people were part Indian, like Elvis Presley, who was a half breed.

Take a look at this photo...

Jacob Lincoln

The man above was Abraham Lincoln's 1st cousin. Does that look like a white man? I am not so sure it does.

Look at this one...

The President's Brother, Wesley Enlow

The photo above is of President Lincoln's brother. Does that look like a white man? Not to me it doesn't.

So I don't read too much into the President's racist comments. The main point was that he freed the slaves.

Is Barack Obama the first Black President? I am not so sure about that either.

They both look white to me.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851820
07/17/15 05:07 PM
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Both the Lincoln relatives look white to me too. White in the sense of Caucasian. Elvis was 1/16 Cherokee, not half.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Faithful1] #851835
07/17/15 08:27 PM
07/17/15 08:27 PM
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And let me add, when Lincoln was running for President, he was mocked for having racial ambiguity. His opponents were running ads depicting him as a monkey in some cases. When you research Lincoln and his whole log cabin story, you find that some things are actually murky.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Faithful1] #851836
07/17/15 08:38 PM
07/17/15 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Faithful1
Both the Lincoln relatives look white to me too. White in the sense of Caucasian. Elvis was 1/16 Cherokee, not half.


I know you do your due dilligence Faithful so I will cede you that one. Elvis does look unusual though, with his large teeth structure and large black eyebrows and high cheekbones. To be 1/16th cherokee is not unusual for any white OR black American. But most white people don't look like Elvis. I do believe he might have dyed his hair black, not sure about that though. But to all other intents and purposes, he resembles an Indian [more-so than what is commonplace].


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Alfa Romeo] #851837
07/17/15 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
And let me add, when Lincoln was running for President, he was mocked for having racial ambiguity. His opponents were running ads depicting him as a monkey in some cases. When you research Lincoln and his whole log cabin story, you find that some things are actually murky.


yes, I agree. a lot of things about about Lincoln, are murky. his legacy is wrapped up in myths, he was never against slavery he told the southern generals at one point in the war, if you surrender you can keep your slaves for forty years.

he doesn't sound like the great freedom fighter his myth makes him out to be. he was indeed a butcher.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851875
07/18/15 06:37 AM
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Faithful...you make some great points, but beware of revisionist history and who exactly is writing on behalf of the CSA...slavery was nothing more than a blip on the radar screen in the 1860's, as far as the Civil War was concerned....and again, this whole controversy with the Confed. flag is so phony...its all symbolism over substance. Our society is always on the search for anything that can possibly "offend" anybody or any group, its completely out of control...this is just the latest example in a long line of "offenses."
Its gotten to the point where individuals are unable to even voice an opinion that is not agreeable to the left...if you do, you can bet that the forced, compulsory apology is soon to follow.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: oldschool3] #851955
07/18/15 07:34 PM
07/18/15 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: oldschool3
Faithful...you make some great points, but beware of revisionist history and who exactly is writing on behalf of the CSA...slavery was nothing more than a blip on the radar screen in the 1860's, as far as the Civil War was concerned....and again, this whole controversy with the Confed. flag is so phony...its all symbolism over substance. Our society is always on the search for anything that can possibly "offend" anybody or any group, its completely out of control...this is just the latest example in a long line of "offenses."
Its gotten to the point where individuals are unable to even voice an opinion that is not agreeable to the left...if you do, you can bet that the forced, compulsory apology is soon to follow.


oldschool, what more can Faithful do besides provide accredited documentation? He did all he could. Now someone denies that and then turn around and call it revisionist. That's bananas, and it's what is wrong with American discourse. We can't have a productive political discussion because everyone is denying and claiming the other guy is making it all up. Just understand one thing, secession or a breaking up of the Union, is very dangerous. I know I sometimes speak in riddles. If translation services are needed, just let me know.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851979
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@Alfa Romeo - Thanks

@oldschool3 - For the CSA material I used the CSA's own official documents. I didn't cite any historians, revisionist or otherwise, just the official documents and I provided links so any poster can read for him or herself. When I do research I try as much as I can to examine the original documents. I do consult what historians have to say, but I don't take then for their words on anything. That's one thing that I learned while researching the Mafia, and we know how much mythmaking occurs there. There is a lot of debate on the CSA, but when one examines its own documents everything is pretty cut and dry.

As for the symbolism issue...yes, it is symbolism, but symbols mean things and they have histories behind them. Symbols didn't develop out of thin air. In this case we can't, in my opinion, ignore the meaning of the Confederate symbols when they went hand-in-hand with slavery, racism, Jim Crow, lynching and the Klan. This doesn't mean that for those whom the flag means Southern pride are racists. I never said that, but this is one of those times and one of those objects that they have to consider what it means to those who experienced Jim Crow, and whose parents and grandparents experienced that and the other things I mentioned. Racism and discrimination didn't end with slavery. It continued for another hundred years.

I also want to make clear that this doesn't mean I'm advocating white guilt, as in the sense that if a person has white skin he or she should be ashamed and feel guilty for the acts of one's possible ancestors. Many people didn't have American ancestors that went back that far but are children or grandchildren of immigrants and had nothing to do with slavery or Jim Crow. More than that, for those who do have ancestors going back to slaveholders, children are not responsible for the evils that their ancestors did. After all, slavery and all types of other evils existed throughout history all over the world. Nor do I advocate this far-left "check your privilege" meme going all over college campuses that tries to impose white guilt and actually makes racists out of non-whites who push that on whites. It's exchanging one type of racism for another.

Ideally, it would be great if race became irrelevant and unimportant, and it may actually happen in the future. Being obese used to be a sign of wealth, but now it's a sign of gluttony and poor health, so that's one aspect of physical appearance that changed over time, and how people view color will change too. We ought to be past it already as a society, but instead certain quarters want to keep it for their own agendas.

My agenda is that we realize that there are certain things that are greatly offensive to certain people FOR GOOD REASONS, and that we can at least try to avoid offending them so we can be at peace. This is one thing where there is documented history behind it and it's not something that has no basis in reality. There's a reason why a rally was held FOR the flag by the KKK in South Carolina today; what role did they play in this issue? Answer: A Big Role. Remember, it was the Dixiecrats, who stood for the preservation of Jim Crow, that really brought the flag back. The Klan started promoting the flag after that. When it was raised on statehouses, it was as an act of defiance to attempts to bring down Jim Crow, like school integration in 1954. Now the Klan is relegated to a relatively small bunch of losers, but the one issue that they are fighting for today is complaining about the Confederate battle flag being removed from the SC state capital. Really, at this point, what does one need to understand that the flag is not a symbol to celebrate?

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #851997
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I, too, have read the CSA website and have somehow come to a different conclusion than you have Faith (no disrespect, just a different take). The statements on their own site is consistent with the historical record, namely that the war was over states' rights and not slavery. Merely google "was slavery the cause of the Civil War?"....not to mention everything that I've read from HS thru college and since.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #852057
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The question is, which states' right were they talking about? Which right were they defending?

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: fergie] #852223
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faithful. I do think the tenth amendment spells out the rights of the states, never forget its the states that make the union, the unions doesn't make the states.

I have always thought that the north never tried Jefferson davis because the south were right in their legal argument that they entered the union voluntarily, and they had a right to leave it legally.

the confederate states were fighting for the right to make their own laws, without government interference.

the right to make the states soverign, as they were during the articles of confederation.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Footreads] #852300
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he's not mentally ill. he's just racist.


"Now, that plane goes to Miami."
"That's right. That's where I want it met."
Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: Faithful1] #852490
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Originally Posted By: Faithful1
The question is, which states' right were they talking about? Which right were they defending?


That's a great question Faith....there were many states' rights issues at the time and slavery was definitely one of them, but at the same time, not the driving issue of the day.

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: oldschool3] #852510
07/22/15 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: oldschool3
Originally Posted By: Faithful1
The question is, which states' right were they talking about? Which right were they defending?


That's a great question Faith....there were many states' rights issues at the time and slavery was definitely one of them, but at the same time, not the driving issue of the day.



slavery was the driving issue of everyday of the civi war

the confederate flag represents a flag that wanted slavery

can't get around that

Re: The Confederate Flag - should it stay or go? [Re: cookcounty] #852512
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ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty
slavery was the driving issue of everyday of the civi war

the confederate flag represents a flag that wanted slavery

can't get around that


Stupid ass posts like this is the reason why I wanted to stay out of this.

For your info there Mr. Sharpton, what were the U.S. soldiers fighting for? They were not fighting for your kind because most owned your kind as well.

Can't get around that!

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