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Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: CabriniGreen] #847341
06/22/15 02:04 PM
06/22/15 02:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
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ht2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo

I personally have concluded that Joe Adonis was a supervisor (Capo) of narcotics trafficking in the NY docks, and later also in Italy after he was deported. I don't have a lot of proof. Drug capos are special capos. They are very rich, and they answer directly to the boss.


Sounds like you've drawn conclusions without a premise or any evidence at all. Maybe you are mixing him up with T.Bender? After his deportation to Italy there were rumors of his involvement in drug trade but I've never seen anything in the way of concrete proof. Does Vizzini's book say anything about it?

Originally Posted By: CabriniGreen
Agreed Alfa,Ive read Adonis smuggled dope in Ford Motors across country...


Where did you read this? I don't think he would risk a legitimate business doing something this stupid. In the US he was heavy into gambling and other rackets but I've never seen him connected to drugs. Rumors surfaced some years after his deportation.

Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: ht2] #847368
06/22/15 04:56 PM
06/22/15 04:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo Offline
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Alfa Romeo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: ht2
Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo

I personally have concluded that Joe Adonis was a supervisor (Capo) of narcotics trafficking in the NY docks, and later also in Italy after he was deported. I don't have a lot of proof. Drug capos are special capos. They are very rich, and they answer directly to the boss.


Sounds like you've drawn conclusions without a premise or any evidence at all. Maybe you are mixing him up with T.Bender? After his deportation to Italy there were rumors of his involvement in drug trade but I've never seen anything in the way of concrete proof. Does Vizzini's book say anything about it?



No, it doesn't come from Vizzini. It is an inference made from the fact that Adonis functioned as a Capo on the New York docks. The main thing happening on the docks was not union racketeering, nor was it hijacking of freight merchandise. The main thing happening on the docks, and still might be happening, is trafficking. Understand the Octopus. It is all one. "Satan cannot be divided against Satan." Trafficking is an international affair with several organized crime groups coordinating together. Government is involved. And the unions that run the docks on *both* shores are infiltrated by organized crime to facilitate the movement of weight by water. On this side is Cosa Nostra and maybe CIA operating through the Manhattan and Brooklyn docks and the labor unions that occupy them. That is the Luciano Family and the Mangano Family, respectively. Giuseppe Antonio Doto was a member of the Luciano Family... working the docks. On the other coast was L'Unione Corse controlling the docks in Marseille through the labor unions and having possible asisstance from French intelligence. This is what Luciano was a part of, what Carlo Gambino was a part of, and what I and the Italian authorities of the time believe Adonis was part of.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: Alfa Romeo] #847379
06/22/15 05:48 PM
06/22/15 05:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
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ht2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo

No, it doesn't come from Vizzini. It is an inference made from the fact that Adonis functioned as a Capo on the New York docks. The main thing happening on the docks was not union racketeering, nor was it hijacking of freight merchandise. The main thing happening on the docks, and still might be happening, is trafficking. Understand the Octopus. It is all one. "Satan cannot be divided against Satan."


According to his biography he may have headed up the Broadway Mob during prohibition. I haven't seen anything in his bio that says he was a Capo on NY docks, although he was closely linked to Anastasia in Brooklyn. When he lived in Brooklyn he was a political fixer in the local Democratic party. I've seen him linked to gambling, cigarette vending and extortion activity but never narcotics. Any drug activity was probably compartmentalized and controlled to specific people. During prohibition the big cash cow for OC was illegal alcohol.

Valachi said during his 30 year career as a Luciano/Genovese soldier he never got involved in drugs or "junk" as he called it, until about 25 years of living that life. If you consider that he belonged to Bender's crew, this is very significant. When he was found dealing, a big fuss was made and things began to change and the attitude toward narcotics loosened up, especially when Costello was pushed aside.


Last edited by ht2; 06/22/15 06:17 PM.
Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: ht2] #847386
06/22/15 07:24 PM
06/22/15 07:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo Offline
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I use the term Capo loosely. Even Adonis' mafia rank and exact position is a matter of debate.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: ht2] #847422
06/23/15 02:15 AM
06/23/15 02:15 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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CabriniGreen Offline
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Chicago
The Strenght Of The Wolf, A History Of America's War On Drugs, there is some fascinating shit in this book. There is a theory in the book that says Bugsy getting hit had nothing to do with Vegas, and might have been a result of him trying to muscle an intelligence network protected narcotics ring out of the west coast supplied via Mexico, with links to south-east asian communist? I gotta check the exact text. But yeah, they say Bugsys death, shot with an army carbine, was always caracterized as very "ungangster-like". More like a military, special ops kind of hit, they go on to say in the book that a lot of MOB HITS AFTER LIKE 1945 OR 47, WERE NOT;i THINK THIS EXPLAINS THE BLANKET DENIAL OF NARCOTICS TRAFFICKING, THESE TOP GUYS KNOW IF THEY TALK THE OSS,(EVENTUALLY CIA)WILL COME A CALLIN, AND THESE GUYS ARE DIFFERENT, THEY WILL SUICIDE YOU OR SOME SHIT. THINK THE SCENE IN GOOD SHEPARD WHEN MATT DAMON TALKS WITH THE OLD SCHOOL MOB GUY AND THE GUY SAYS, "YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES IM AFRAID OF, YOU START THE REAL WARS".... BUT YEAH, THIS BOOK IS ALL ABOUT THE FBN (PREDECCESOR OF THE DEA)UNRAVELLING DRUG NETWORKS, AND BEING THRWARTED BY THE INTELLIGENCE SERVICES AN THE COMPLICIT GOVERNMENT, SCARY READ....

Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: Dazzlin_Vinny_D] #847423
06/23/15 02:19 AM
06/23/15 02:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein Offline
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SonnyBlackstein  Offline
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Umm ... Huh?


MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: ht2] #847424
06/23/15 02:23 AM
06/23/15 02:23 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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CabriniGreen Offline
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Chicago
Risk a legitimate business? I dont want to sound patronizing but you sound painfully naive. This is Jimmy Hoffa Detroit we are talking about. Gaetano Badalamenti I believe was moving shit through this city, via Wndsor,there was a guy John Priziola? And a Quasarano, big time dealers. Joe Adonis provided Ford with labor peace, dont tell me that sounds farfetched to you with everything we know about thte time period. And Junior Soprano was right about heroin, " Back in the 50s it was raining cash, every one it thier mom was gettin rich off of dealin h". This is hard to accept, why exactly????

Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: Dazzlin_Vinny_D] #847426
06/23/15 02:25 AM
06/23/15 02:25 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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CabriniGreen Offline
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I also read the Joe Adonis thing in Mafia Summit i believe...

Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: Dazzlin_Vinny_D] #847428
06/23/15 03:39 AM
06/23/15 03:39 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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CabriniGreen Offline
Underboss
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Underboss
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Chicago
And again, its no coincidence they had the Detroit Boss stand up and talk in the Godfather...

Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: SonnyBlackstein] #847430
06/23/15 03:49 AM
06/23/15 03:49 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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CabriniGreen Offline
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
umm Yeah, Dude, yall should read up some more, do ya googles lol...

Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: Alfa Romeo] #847434
06/23/15 05:55 AM
06/23/15 05:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 441
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mickey2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
Originally Posted By: ht2
Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo

I personally have concluded that Joe Adonis was a supervisor (Capo) of narcotics trafficking in the NY docks, and later also in Italy after he was deported. I don't have a lot of proof. Drug capos are special capos. They are very rich, and they answer directly to the boss.


Sounds like you've drawn conclusions without a premise or any evidence at all. Maybe you are mixing him up with T.Bender? After his deportation to Italy there were rumors of his involvement in drug trade but I've never seen anything in the way of concrete proof. Does Vizzini's book say anything about it?



No, it doesn't come from Vizzini. It is an inference made from the fact that Adonis functioned as a Capo on the New York docks. The main thing happening on the docks was not union racketeering, nor was it hijacking of freight merchandise. The main thing happening on the docks, and still might be happening, is trafficking. Understand the Octopus. It is all one. "Satan cannot be divided against Satan." Trafficking is an international affair with several organized crime groups coordinating together. Government is involved. And the unions that run the docks on *both* shores are infiltrated by organized crime to facilitate the movement of weight by water. On this side is Cosa Nostra and maybe CIA operating through the Manhattan and Brooklyn docks and the labor unions that occupy them. That is the Luciano Family and the Mangano Family, respectively. Giuseppe Antonio Doto was a member of the Luciano Family... working the docks. On the other coast was L'Unione Corse controlling the docks in Marseille through the labor unions and having possible asisstance from French intelligence. This is what Luciano was a part of, what Carlo Gambino was a part of, and what I and the Italian authorities of the time believe Adonis was part of.


CIA was founded in '47, so i don't think at all they were in any kind involved. Besides, the mob would've never knowingly worked with the govt back then. The Castro hits are an entirely different matter. But I agree to your octopus metaphor, i guess you read Sterling's book? She's a bit quick and loose in her conclusions in my mind. Anyways, Adonis was '56 deported and the international sicily-marseille-newyork drug connection was created in late '57, so if, Adonis was only in local, small scale drug trafficking locally on the docks involved. that would be my bet.

Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: CabriniGreen] #847490
06/23/15 02:24 PM
06/23/15 02:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
H
ht2 Offline
Capo
ht2  Offline
H
Capo
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Posts: 368
Originally Posted By: CabriniGreen
Risk a legitimate business? I dont want to sound patronizing but you sound painfully naive. This is Jimmy Hoffa Detroit we are talking about. Gaetano Badalamenti I believe was moving shit through this city, via Wndsor,there was a guy John Priziola? And a Quasarano, big time dealers. Joe Adonis provided Ford with labor peace, dont tell me that sounds farfetched to you with everything we know about thte time period. And Junior Soprano was right about heroin, " Back in the 50s it was raining cash, every one it thier mom was gettin rich off of dealin h". This is hard to accept, why exactly????


What I meant was too much negative attention would cause Ford motor to give him the boot, which is what happened. I believe one of the reasons Adonis was upset with Kefauver hearings was that at all the negative publicity would cause him to give up his legitimate holding in NJ. He most likely needed it to justify his income to the IRS. I asked you where you read your info and you give me a quote from Junior Soprano?

Last edited by ht2; 06/23/15 02:49 PM.
Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: mickey2] #850066
07/07/15 04:17 AM
07/07/15 04:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo Offline
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Alfa Romeo  Offline
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Posts: 1,442
Originally Posted By: mickey2
Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
Originally Posted By: ht2
Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo

I personally have concluded that Joe Adonis was a supervisor (Capo) of narcotics trafficking in the NY docks, and later also in Italy after he was deported. I don't have a lot of proof. Drug capos are special capos. They are very rich, and they answer directly to the boss.


Sounds like you've drawn conclusions without a premise or any evidence at all. Maybe you are mixing him up with T.Bender? After his deportation to Italy there were rumors of his involvement in drug trade but I've never seen anything in the way of concrete proof. Does Vizzini's book say anything about it?



No, it doesn't come from Vizzini. It is an inference made from the fact that Adonis functioned as a Capo on the New York docks. The main thing happening on the docks was not union racketeering, nor was it hijacking of freight merchandise. The main thing happening on the docks, and still might be happening, is trafficking. Understand the Octopus. It is all one. "Satan cannot be divided against Satan." Trafficking is an international affair with several organized crime groups coordinating together. Government is involved. And the unions that run the docks on *both* shores are infiltrated by organized crime to facilitate the movement of weight by water. On this side is Cosa Nostra and maybe CIA operating through the Manhattan and Brooklyn docks and the labor unions that occupy them. That is the Luciano Family and the Mangano Family, respectively. Giuseppe Antonio Doto was a member of the Luciano Family... working the docks. On the other coast was L'Unione Corse controlling the docks in Marseille through the labor unions and having possible asisstance from French intelligence. This is what Luciano was a part of, what Carlo Gambino was a part of, and what I and the Italian authorities of the time believe Adonis was part of.


CIA was founded in '47, so i don't think at all they were in any kind involved. Besides, the mob would've never knowingly worked with the govt back then. The Castro hits are an entirely different matter. But I agree to your octopus metaphor, i guess you read Sterling's book? She's a bit quick and loose in her conclusions in my mind. Anyways, Adonis was '56 deported and the international sicily-marseille-newyork drug connection was created in late '57, so if, Adonis was only in local, small scale drug trafficking locally on the docks involved. that would be my bet.


Please forgive the belated reply. I am literally back from a vacation.

You've made a very good observation about OSS being formed in 47, whilst Lucky Luciano was exonerated/deported in 46. But the intelligence community is still there, in the form of Naval Intelligence [which somehow or another advocated on Lucky's behalf to get him exonerated from prison]. Being as there is almost limitless information out there connecting the CIA with trafficking, I would say that Luciano and Co. probably had to cross paths with the OSS/CIA at some point in some mutually beneficial way.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: Dwalin2011] #850075
07/07/15 06:23 AM
07/07/15 06:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 150
Belette Offline
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Belette  Offline
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Posts: 150
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo

You know what, I am really not sure. I read somewhere that Luciano's presence in Italy had a lot to do with the very formation of the Cupola, the Sicilian Commission. I checked the unreliable Wikipedia in regards to your comment, and it says that 1965 was the first time the Cupola became known to the public, not when it began. Does anyone here have an earlier date for it's origin?

I am not sure when it was created, but it surely existed before the Ciaculli massacre in 1963 and the mafia war that started around that time. It was temporarily disbanded after the police crackdowns and the Cupola members being placed on the wanted list. Salvatore Greco was the first chairman. However, this is the provincial Palermo Cupola. As for the Regional Commission which included representatives of all provinces, I am not sure whether it existed before the 60s. Im sure though in some book (maybe the one based on Antonino Carderone's testimony), it was said there have already been a representative of the whole region, somebody named Andrea Fazio from Trapani.
Unfortunately, I don't remember all the details, I don't own many of the books, have to check in libraries again.


Tommaso Buschetta testified that he became friends with Luciano in Italy in the 50's and Luciano described to him the purpose of the commission in America.In 1957 he met Bonanno in Sicily and further discussed the idea of forming a Sicilian version of it. He says he also discussed it with a couple of other Americans, maybe Carlo and Paolo Gambino since he seemed to know them well and met them many times in Italy. He says he then convinced the Sicilian bosses to create the Cupola somewhat based on the American counterpart, although different in many ways.

You can read the whole testimony on 25 Years After Valachi.

Last edited by Belette; 07/07/15 06:24 AM.
Re: Don Carlo v. Lucky [Re: Dazzlin_Vinny_D] #855978
08/14/15 08:23 AM
08/14/15 08:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 186
D
donplugconnected Offline
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although luciano created the modern day mafia he did hand(forcefully) over to carlo gambino. gambino maneuvered much better than luciano and did it stylishly also had much more brain than luciano(he always had meyer,castello to help him) carlo didn't have those ppl which makes it that much more respectable. carlo gambino managed to hold power much longer than luciano did too so yea CG for the win.


ma tongue hold life my belt hold death.
make em bite the dust when they hit the floor.
4-5 to there chest us folk from gangsterbb aint playing.
we smoke everyone in this b word like a hookah now.
stupid steve hit the corner shooting.
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