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Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? #825744
01/26/15 02:51 AM
01/26/15 02:51 AM
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Posts: 863
Uk
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Tonytough Offline OP
ba da bing
Tonytough  Offline OP
ba da bing
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Underboss
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Posts: 863
Uk
with Paul alive, obviously he had the boss's ear & a lot of say in that regard, especially after Neil died when he was promoted to underboss

But let's just say without Paul in the picture, ie Paul was whacked & Tommy wasn't present. What kind of power did he yield without Paul around. Did he have a big crew? Seems like he spent most of his time with Paul & only met the capos or soldiers to pass on orders. I know him & his brother were both real tough guys but in the mob that doesn't stand for much when your against numbers , guns & money.

Now in comparison, Gotti without Neil had considerable influence & a big crew. Plus he was able to get other crews & important figures within the family to listen to him.

Edit- another example could be Massino & Vitale, without big Joey, Sal had no real power apart from the title of underboss/ whereas Gas Pipe as Vic's underboss was very powerful in his own right

Last edited by Tonytough; 01/26/15 02:54 AM.
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825775
01/26/15 08:06 AM
01/26/15 08:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo Offline
Underboss
Alfa Romeo  Offline
Underboss
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Posts: 1,442
Here's the problem I see with someone like Bilotti:

He was described as Big Paul's body guard and driver.

If you are an Underboss, you need to be out on the street runnin sh--.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Bilotti was just as out of touch as Big Paul.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825778
01/26/15 08:25 AM
01/26/15 08:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,282
B
bigboy Offline
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bigboy  Offline
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Agree with Alfa Romeo above, plus I have heard Bilotti described as being quite dumb. I think he was probably OK as a driver but not much more than that.

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825789
01/26/15 09:20 AM
01/26/15 09:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 494
N.E. Philly/Florida
PhillyMob Offline
Capo
PhillyMob  Offline
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Posts: 494
N.E. Philly/Florida
Agree with all above statements. I really don't think you would of heard much of him without big Paul in the picture. Sparks is what really made his name known.


"My uncle(Nicky Scarfo) always told me, you have to use your brains in this thing, and you always have to use the gun." -"crazy" Phil Leonetti-
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: PhillyMob] #825790
01/26/15 09:26 AM
01/26/15 09:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 18
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ThreeTomatos Offline
Wiseguy
ThreeTomatos  Offline
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Wiseguy
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Originally Posted By: PhillyMob
Agree with all above statements. I really don't think you would of heard much of him without big Paul in the picture. Sparks is what really made his name known.


His brother Joe was well-known and feared.

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: ThreeTomatos] #825793
01/26/15 09:30 AM
01/26/15 09:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 494
N.E. Philly/Florida
PhillyMob Offline
Capo
PhillyMob  Offline
Capo
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Posts: 494
N.E. Philly/Florida
Originally Posted By: ThreeTomatos
Originally Posted By: PhillyMob
Agree with all above statements. I really don't think you would of heard much of him without big Paul in the picture. Sparks is what really made his name known.


His brother Joe was well-known and feared.


His brother joe was a capo correct?


"My uncle(Nicky Scarfo) always told me, you have to use your brains in this thing, and you always have to use the gun." -"crazy" Phil Leonetti-
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825797
01/26/15 09:49 AM
01/26/15 09:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 582
T
TonyBoy117 Offline
Underboss
TonyBoy117  Offline
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I believe Joe Bilotti is/was always a soldier, I've read he was under Carmine Sciandria and has a million kids

Last edited by TonyBoy117; 01/26/15 12:11 PM.
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825803
01/26/15 10:21 AM
01/26/15 10:21 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
alexandarns Offline
Underboss
alexandarns  Offline
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Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
Think there was a 3rd brother,James Bilotti.Don't know if he was connected.

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825813
01/26/15 11:26 AM
01/26/15 11:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians
Moe_Tilden  Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Joseph died in 2006. James is indeed the third brother.

All Bilotti brothers had 9 children each.

The brothers came up in the crew of Michael D'Alessio.

It's all here.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/OBITUARIES/2008-10/1223119580

Lots of interesting info to flesh out the Bilotti back story like the following:

"In one incident, Tommy Bilotti knocked out Colombo associate Robert Pate, whose brother was Colombo solider (and future stoolpigeon) John Pate".


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825814
01/26/15 11:36 AM
01/26/15 11:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians
Moe_Tilden  Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
"Thomas had a physically large mouth full of crooked teeth and piggish eyes that were too close together. This suggests that Thomas suffered from Fetal alcohol syndrome which is a disorder or permanent birth defects that occur in women when they consume alcohol during pregnancy. The alcohol can also damage neurons and brain structures, and cause physical, mental and behavioral problems. which is caused from the narrowing of the palpebral fissures. It also creates an array of primary cognitive and functional disabilities including impulsive behavior, attention defecits and poor cause-effect reasoning which Thomas displayed signs of. One of the physical telltale signs of fetal alcohol syndrome is that the eyes may seem visually too close together. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agent Joseph O'Brien would state that Thomas was unfortunate to not "escape the telltale signs of inbreeding- the piggish eyes, the sloping brow, the blotched skin that went with hypertension that made Thomas and other mobsters into caricatures of thuggishness".

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome would explain a few of the the stories about him.

"With his first wife Catherine he fathered a severely autistic son and namesake, Thomas C. Bilotti born on March 30, 1974 who was institutionalized when he reached the age of a toddler. Thomas was said to have loved his son dearly and visited him regularly, though he never spoke of him publicly. His son and namesake Thomas C. Bilotti passed away on September 16, 2003 in Port Jefferson, New York at the age of twenty-nine".

I found that quite sad. Everything about that article was pretty sad actually. A depressing read.


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825817
01/26/15 11:40 AM
01/26/15 11:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians
Moe_Tilden  Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/01/nyregion/prosecutors-tell-of-colombo-family-murder-plot.html

Joe Bilotti was indicted in an early 1990's loansharking case as per this article:

Five others, accused of links to the Gambino crime family, were indicted on separate loansharking charges and were released on $250,000 bail each.

"The other defendants were Joseph Bilotti, 58, of Staten Island; Vincent D'Antoni, 48, of Staten Island; Joseph Seggio, 54, of Brooklyn; Peter Sgarlato, 56, of Edison, N.J., and Michael Murdocco, 48, of Staten Island".




I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825818
01/26/15 11:46 AM
01/26/15 11:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 68
RedBullets Offline
Button
RedBullets  Offline
Button
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Posts: 68
I wouldn't say so. He wasn't respected much at all. Especially when Castellano gave him a crew. I'm willing to bet, that if Castellano got killed somehow and Bilotti didn't die beside him, they still would have went after Bilotti. Even if he would have tried to yield like Tommy Gambino.

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Moe_Tilden] #825833
01/26/15 01:56 PM
01/26/15 01:56 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
alexandarns Offline
Underboss
alexandarns  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
Joseph died in 2006. James is indeed the third brother.

All Bilotti brothers had 9 children each.

The brothers came up in the crew of Michael D'Alessio.

It's all here.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/OBITUARIES/2008-10/1223119580

Lots of interesting info to flesh out the Bilotti back story like the following:

"In one incident, Tommy Bilotti knocked out Colombo associate Robert Pate, whose brother was Colombo solider (and future stoolpigeon) John Pate".


Who were those D alessio brothers?Havent found anything on them

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825836
01/26/15 02:08 PM
01/26/15 02:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians
Moe_Tilden  Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
No. The Bilotti brothers came up in D'Alessio's crew.


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Moe_Tilden] #825840
01/26/15 02:14 PM
01/26/15 02:14 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
alexandarns Offline
Underboss
alexandarns  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
No. The Bilotti brothers came up in D'Alessio's crew.


Yeah there were three brothers,i guess they were close with debrizzi or related,i dont know.I thinkThey were from Joe Riccobonos crew or something to do with him.HK will clear it up when he comes online,he probably knows.

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: alexandarns] #825859
01/26/15 03:50 PM
01/26/15 03:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 837
BarrettM Offline
Underboss
BarrettM  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 837
IIRC he put a debtors dick in his mouth in order to humiliate him

Not sure who should be more humiliated by that

no homo but in the mafioso underworld thats just cray

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: BarrettM] #825918
01/27/15 04:56 AM
01/27/15 04:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,094
Cajunland
LaLouisiane Offline
Cajun Mafia
LaLouisiane  Offline
Cajun Mafia
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,094
Cajunland
Originally Posted By: BarrettM
IIRC he put a debtors dick in his mouth in order to humiliate him


Hey Barrett, just wanted to clarify on this story because I honestly have no idea about it: He took the debtors dick and put it in his mouth? Or his and put it in the debtors mouth? If it was the first, I think it backfired on the humiliation part. panic lol

Got that quote thing under wraps now man!


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: LaLouisiane] #825919
01/27/15 05:34 AM
01/27/15 05:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 155
Downtown NYC
D
downtown Offline
Made Member
downtown  Offline
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Made Member
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Posts: 155
Downtown NYC
Tommy "Ryan" Eboli had said year's ago that the "Gambino " Family is a full of degenerates, inbreeding and cousin's getting married.
Originally Posted By: LaLouisiane
Originally Posted By: BarrettM
IIRC he put a debtors dick in his mouth in order to humiliate him


Hey Barrett, just wanted to clarify on this story because I honestly have no idea about it: He took the debtors dick and put it in his mouth? Or his and put it in the debtors mouth? If it was the first, I think it backfired on the humiliation part. panic lol

Got that quote thing under wraps now man!


wise old owl sat on a oak , the more he heard the less he spoke , the less he spoke the more he heard , wasn't that a wise ole bird.
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825920
01/27/15 05:54 AM
01/27/15 05:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians
Moe_Tilden  Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
The story you refer to is in the link I posted. Read it. It's a good read.


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: alexandarns] #825927
01/27/15 06:53 AM
01/27/15 06:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles Offline
Underboss
HairyKnuckles  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
Originally Posted By: alexandarns
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
No. The Bilotti brothers came up in D'Alessio's crew.


Yeah there were three brothers,i guess they were close with debrizzi or related,i dont know.I thinkThey were from Joe Riccobonos crew or something to do with him.HK will clear it up when he comes online,he probably knows.


I´m not sure who the Bilottis were under during their early career, but when they were made in the late 1970s, they were under Jimmy Brown. Castellano made Tommy Bilotti a captain of his own crew around 1981 and some Failla soldiers (among them his brother and the DeCiccos) went with him.


[Linked Image]
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #825930
01/27/15 07:09 AM
01/27/15 07:09 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
alexandarns Offline
Underboss
alexandarns  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: alexandarns
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
No. The Bilotti brothers came up in D'Alessio's crew.


Yeah there were three brothers,i guess they were close with debrizzi or related,i dont know.I thinkThey were from Joe Riccobonos crew or something to do with him.HK will clear it up when he comes online,he probably knows.


I´m not sure who the Bilottis were under during their early career, but when they were made in the late 1970s, they were under Jimmy Brown. Castellano made Tommy Bilotti a captain of his own crew around 1981 and some Failla soldiers (among them his brother and the DeCiccos) went with him.


Frankie Decicco went under Tommy Bilotti in 81??Paul must of been out of his mind,putting a guy like Decicco under Bilotti.He should have put Tommy bilotti and HIS brothers under Frank in 81.He deserved it and he had the age,46 years old was ideal to become a capo.Who were the other guys under bilotti?

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: alexandarns] #825945
01/27/15 09:48 AM
01/27/15 09:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 173
dominic_calabrese Offline
Made Member
dominic_calabrese  Offline
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Posts: 173
My understanding is that during the later years of Castellano's reign, most family business was run by a 4-man panel of Thomas Gambino, Daniel Marino, Jmmy Brown Failla, and Thomas Bilotti.

Bilotti may not have been particularly clever, but the other three were

Moreover, Castellano supposedly made it known that he wanted Tommy Gambino to be his successor

Therefore, even though Bilotti was promoted to Underboss, it was never the plan to make him boss

A few questions spring to mind:

(1) If the rank-and-file thought that Castellano had gotten his position only through nepotism, would not the same resentment have existed against Tommy Gambino? And yet Tommy Gambino seems to have been a very popular and therefore powerful figure

(2) Even if Castellano were out-of-touch with the street, and supposedly unaware of Gotti's machinations against him, would not such street-savvy figures as Marino and Failla have known the danger?

(3) The hypocrisy of the Gotti accusing the Castellano faction of nepotism, and then making and promoting John Jr at such a young age, and seeing to it that John Jr and Peter Gotti ruled the family after his imprisonment . . . .

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: alexandarns] #825949
01/27/15 10:17 AM
01/27/15 10:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 173
dominic_calabrese Offline
Made Member
dominic_calabrese  Offline
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Posts: 173
Originally Posted By: alexandarns
Frankie Decicco went under Tommy Bilotti in 81??Paul must of been out of his mind,putting a guy like Decicco under Bilotti.


I think DeCicco was a capo. Castellano thought highly of him

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825951
01/27/15 10:27 AM
01/27/15 10:27 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 778
Castellammare del Golfo
Malandrino Offline
Underboss
Malandrino  Offline
Underboss
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Posts: 778
Castellammare del Golfo
Forget about Gotti's and Sammy's justifications and excuses for whacking Paul. Paul was greedy, John was ambitious. He was put in a kill or be killed position. That's it.

There have been much worse bosses than Paul who haven't been shot like dogs on the street.


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825957
01/27/15 12:11 PM
01/27/15 12:11 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,845
cheech Offline
Underboss
cheech  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,845


When Interpol?
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Malandrino] #825980
01/27/15 02:26 PM
01/27/15 02:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Binnie_Coll Offline
Underboss
Binnie_Coll  Offline
Underboss
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Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Originally Posted By: Malandrino
Forget about Gotti's and Sammy's justifications and excuses for whacking Paul. Paul was greedy, John was ambitious. He was put in a kill or be killed position. That's it.

There have been much worse bosses than Paul who haven't been shot like dogs on the street.


mal, you're absolutely right! with gotti it was kill, or be killed, it was him or paul castellano.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825983
01/27/15 02:38 PM
01/27/15 02:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 59
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Tommydesimone44 Offline
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Tommydesimone44  Offline
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Very good point I agree as well.. No chance Gotti was gonna sit back and let Castellano take him and his crew out.. Fuck the rules, anyone in that life with brains and balls (which I do think Gotti had) would have done the same thing.

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tommydesimone44] #825985
01/27/15 02:57 PM
01/27/15 02:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Binnie_Coll Offline
Underboss
Binnie_Coll  Offline
Underboss
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far, northwest
Originally Posted By: Tommydesimone44
Very good point I agree as well.. No chance Gotti was gonna sit back and let Castellano take him and his crew out.. Fuck the rules, anyone in that life with brains and balls (which I do think Gotti had) would have done the same thing.


yup, well said!



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825986
01/27/15 02:58 PM
01/27/15 02:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 59
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Tommydesimone44 Offline
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Moe, great read thanks.. One thing, Bilotti having the bartender perform oral sex on him in front of the patrons? That sounds a little off Mafia protocol ya think?

Re: Did Tommy Bilotti have any real power? [Re: Tonytough] #825987
01/27/15 03:02 PM
01/27/15 03:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 884
Hudson County NJ
D
DB Offline
Underboss
DB  Offline
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Underboss
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Hudson County NJ
What would be interesting IMO is if Paul made Gambino as his underboss would Gotti of whacked Tommy Gambino too

Gotti was forced to kill Paul otherwise him , Gene and Ang would have been whacked so regardless of who was underboss Paul was going .

However as dumb as Gotti could of been ( I consider it more of his proud/ stubbornness to be a gangster persona than being dumb ) I doubt Gambino would have been touched . Gotti was smart enough to know killing a Gambino was probably a death wish whether it be by his own family or the Chin .

I also wonder if Paul made Gotti his underboss , would it have save his life ? Or rather save the life of living behind bars the rest of his life .

Regardless Paul did right by his sons I believe , putting them in critical a industry to NYC where they could receive help from CN while keeping them on the outside to prevent the constant watch by LE. My guess is his sons are millionaires today , but probably still kick up

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