I was just wondering.... It seems like the mafia has gone the none violent route because violence it causes too much heat.... my question is this:
Do you think that will ultimately be their downfall? In a world of crime where there is no justice system, violence or the threat of violence seems to be the only way to enforce your will.... but without that do you think the mob will eventually lose grounds to other groups who are more willing to back up their will with violence?


just a thought. (btw if my spelling is off dont slam me - english is my 2. language :))

It's a Catch 22 topic because without the violence they're not as feared. But it's also what's allowing them to survive.

And they don't have to hurt everyone. Because even if they're only hurting, say, one guy a year. No one wants to be that one guy.

The threat of violence is enough. It always has been.

yeah thats what makes it kinda interresting - the thread about the drug ring in nj and long island made me think, because those guys clearly where too trigger happy, but compared to other oc groups they are almost non violent, but the question is if they will be muzzled out by those other groups because of it.

ya over the past century they have established their reputation for violence, so now more or less they can just coast off their reputation.

like pizza said its a catch 22, if a guy owes you money of course you want him to pay you back but you don't want the guy so scared that if he can't pay you back that he'd rather run to the cops then take a beating. thats why sometimes you hear off a guy who can't pay his gambling debts simply getting caught off rather then someone go after him with a baseball bat.

the thing is those other groups have little to nothing to do with the mob and their rackets, there are a lot of violent gangs in ny and nj but that doesn't necessarily mean their in competition with each other. why should the italians care what the blacks, hispanics, or the chinese are doing? its not like back when the italians controlled the wholesale drug market in NY, if they were to try to do that again yeah maybe they might be in competition with some cartels and yeah the superior violence of the cartels would put the italians at a disadvantage. but today thats not really the case anymore. there was big talk about the russains overtaking the italians, then it was the albanians and thats all it was, talk. next it will be who ever else comes along.

Exactly. That's the media for you.

The truth is, another ethnic group will never have the same circumstances to exploit that the Italian American mob had back in the '30s, so they'll never be able to get that foothold.

From Prohibition to a clueless FBI to everything else. It was the perfect storm, and it just can't happen today.

The mafia also controlled unions, pension funds, casino's, cops, and judges. Can you imagine some black gang member trying to take over a union..lol how bout a black gang infiltrating a pension fund. We would see dinosaurs roaming the earth and talking before that would ever happen, and thats if they even knew what a pension fund was.
As for violence, most successful, long lasting wiseguys use it as a last resort.

So your saying the Mob pretty much turned into businessmen these days?

Violence brings trumped up charges creates more informants and results in heavy jail sentences. On the other hand, there's still mob violence but it's not reported but because more then likely the victim was doing something illegal or operating in a grey area, not paying their taxes etc etc...

That's how the mob survived for so long, by using violence only as a last resort. That's why Luciano and them created the commission, to avoid all those killings and all the mayhem that goes with it. When you go to war, you attract the attention of the government and the media on you, and above all you can't earn !! They are still using violence when they have to, but the time when the bodies were dropping in the streets are over, because it brings useless heat, fear among the ranks, and jeopardizes business.

yeah thats true but what im wondering is if that is gonna be the demise of their power also....

No because if they have to kill a guy, if it's the last resort, they'll still do it today. But maybe they'll kill him with more cautiousness. No bodies on the street, no bodies at all, just disappearances.

This has been mentioned before. But when a known OC figure just disappears, it creates just as much heat as if they found the body. And when's the last time you heard of a high profile mob guy disappearing? It's been sixteen years since Ralphie Coppola vanished.

The mob is surviving because they've curbed the murders (and disappearances ). If there was a mob war today, like, say, the Colombo war on the early '90s, the Feds would turn it on like a light switch.

The mob is only as strong as the government allows them to be. If they keep the status quo, they'll be around for some time to come. But if bodies start dropping again, the Feds will turn it up to the point where the harassment of John Gotti will look like it was run by a team of ACLU lawyers.

Ralphie's missing, I thought he was retired and staying in the Florida Everglades... most of him anyway.