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Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... #777573
05/14/14 03:11 AM
05/14/14 03:11 AM
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Hi,

I ask myself: If Capone would stay in New York and not go to Chicago, would he become a Boss of a Family in New York too?

What do you think?

Last edited by DBCooper; 05/14/14 03:14 AM.

Sorry for bad english, I am not a native american, I hope you forgive me wink
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777577
05/14/14 04:29 AM
05/14/14 04:29 AM
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Capone went to Chicago to work with a relative. He was trusted because he was blood. So he had his ear.

I think if Capone stayed in Brooklyn he would have been a soldier and could have become a lot higher then that. He had balls and he had ambition, and he would do anything or he may have got killed before he could become somebody high up.

You should ask a guy named John Binder. You can find him on Facebook . He is an Capone/ chicago outfit expert wrote at least one book on it. He used to be on the history Chanel. He hand an Internet name at one time of Westside jack.

Want real answers ask John.


only the unloved hate
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: Footreads] #777580
05/14/14 04:52 AM
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Had Capone stayed, he definitely would not have rose as fast as he did in Chicago. Remember that in the 1920's, you still had to be full bloodied Sicilian in order to join any New York Mafia family. Capone was a Neapolitan descendant, so he wouldn't have been qualified to join (at least until they loosened the rules). I read somewhere that there were Cammora offshoots in New York at the time. But those groups are more linked by blood so unless Capone was related to someone in there, he probably was barred from joining them too.

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777581
05/14/14 04:58 AM
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Costello was Calabrian and Genovese was Neapolitan. All of the bosses were Sicilian and families like the Bonannos and the Profacis were almost entirely composed of them but the rest of the families had members from mainland Italy. I think at the very least, Capone would have been a capo in some family, probably Luciano's.

Last edited by Snakes; 05/14/14 04:59 AM.

"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: Footreads] #777593
05/14/14 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: Footreads
Capone went to Chicago to work with a relative. He was trusted because he was blood. So he had his ear.

I think if Capone stayed in Brooklyn he would have been a soldier and could have become a lot higher then that. He had balls and he had ambition, and he would do anything or he may have got killed before he could become somebody high up.

You should ask a guy named John Binder. You can find him on Facebook . He is an Capone/ chicago outfit expert wrote at least one book on it. He used to be on the history Chanel. He hand an Internet name at one time of Westside jack.

Want real answers ask John.



Hi, oh thank you very much. I asked him on FB. smile


Sorry for bad english, I am not a native american, I hope you forgive me wink
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777809
05/15/14 03:12 AM
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I think that Capone and Torrio wouldve go with Luciano...as Snakes said


He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777813
05/15/14 03:33 AM
05/15/14 03:33 AM
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Capone become Outfit boss in 1925 at the age of 26,because Johnny Torrio isn't tought enought to the gangwar. If Capone and Torrio would had remained in New York,Torio will became a capo for his brain,Capone was smart but also too violent,will be a soldier under Luciano,and maybe a capo,maybe not with Luciano,but maybe under Genovese 'cause both had the same violent temper, and if Capone wasn't go to Alcatraz, maybe he wouldn't die stoned by syphilis.

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777825
05/15/14 06:08 AM
05/15/14 06:08 AM
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I don't think Capone would've joined Luciano due to his connections to Frankie Yale. And Luciano was working under Masseria. He would have ended up under Maranzano and probably washed up under Joseph Profaci and become a very powerfull Colombo gangster. And if he did stay in New York, he probably wouldn't have died of syphilis, maybe not even get convicted on tax evasion and certainly not be sentenced to 11 years.


The whole thing is how strong you are and how much power you got and how fucking mean you are—that's what makes you rise in the mob. Every day's a fucking struggle, because you don't know who's looking to knock you off, especially when you become a captain or boss. Every day, somebody's looking to dispose of you and take your position. You always got to be on your toes. Every fucking day is a scam day to keep your power and position."
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777851
05/15/14 07:40 AM
05/15/14 07:40 AM
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Capone was close to Yale before their falling out.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: Snakes] #777861
05/15/14 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: Snakes
Capone was close to Yale before their falling out.


By falling out you mean Yale ending up dead in his car with multible tommy-gun bullet wounds?

Machinegun Jack (Vincent Gibaldi) was an awesome killer!


The whole thing is how strong you are and how much power you got and how fucking mean you are—that's what makes you rise in the mob. Every day's a fucking struggle, because you don't know who's looking to knock you off, especially when you become a captain or boss. Every day, somebody's looking to dispose of you and take your position. You always got to be on your toes. Every fucking day is a scam day to keep your power and position."
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777862
05/15/14 08:17 AM
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Vincent cole used the tommy gun when he invented the drive by


only the unloved hate
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: Footreads] #777866
05/15/14 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: Footreads
Vincent cole used the tommy gun when he invented the drive by


But Gibaldi killed Yale, Cole didn't.


The whole thing is how strong you are and how much power you got and how fucking mean you are—that's what makes you rise in the mob. Every day's a fucking struggle, because you don't know who's looking to knock you off, especially when you become a captain or boss. Every day, somebody's looking to dispose of you and take your position. You always got to be on your toes. Every fucking day is a scam day to keep your power and position."
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: HenryHauglad] #777871
05/15/14 08:31 AM
05/15/14 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: HenryHauglad
Originally Posted By: Snakes
Capone was close to Yale before their falling out.


By falling out you mean Yale ending up dead in his car with multible tommy-gun bullet wounds?

Machinegun Jack (Vincent Gibaldi) was an awesome killer!


Well, one thing leads to another.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777910
05/15/14 09:43 AM
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Hard to say, because in NY there is a lot of concurrence beetween the bosses. Plus Capone was just a bootlegger, he had other businesses I know but I don't know if he had a lot of influence of the local unions like the bosses in NY did. He was more a classic gangster than a mafia guy.

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777930
05/15/14 10:58 AM
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I suppose that as long as he was Torrio's protege he would have made it fairly far up the totem pole.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #777984
05/15/14 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: DBCooper
Originally Posted By: Footreads
Capone went to Chicago to work with a relative. He was trusted because he was blood. So he had his ear.

I think if Capone stayed in Brooklyn he would have been a soldier and could have become a lot higher then that. He had balls and he had ambition, and he would do anything or he may have got killed before he could become somebody high up.

You should ask a guy named John Binder. You can find him on Facebook . He is an Capone/ chicago outfit expert wrote at least one book on it. He used to be on the history Chanel. He hand an Internet name at one time of Westside jack.

Want real answers ask John.



Hi, oh thank you very much. I asked him on FB. smile

please let us know his repsonse

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #778101
05/15/14 07:44 PM
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In NYC I don't think he would have been a boss, too many guys for him to rise above for that spot , capo I'm sure he woulda made no problem

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: RollinBones] #778133
05/15/14 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: RollinBones
Originally Posted By: DBCooper
Originally Posted By: Footreads
Capone went to Chicago to work with a relative. He was trusted because he was blood. So he had his ear.

I think if Capone stayed in Brooklyn he would have been a soldier and could have become a lot higher then that. He had balls and he had ambition, and he would do anything or he may have got killed before he could become somebody high up.

You should ask a guy named John Binder. You can find him on Facebook . He is an Capone/ chicago outfit expert wrote at least one book on it. He used to be on the history Chanel. He hand an Internet name at one time of Westside jack.

Want real answers ask John.



Hi, oh thank you very much. I asked him on FB. smile

please let us know his repsonse


Hi, I think his answer is not a secret:
...
Hard to say. Quite often, just like in the corporate world, there is luck and circumstances involved. If Colosimo had not been killed and Torrio wounded so that he stepped aside, Capone might never have become boss in Chicago. And if he stayed in New York, who knows what would have happened there.
...


Sorry for bad english, I am not a native american, I hope you forgive me wink
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #778137
05/15/14 10:38 PM
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I think had he stayed in NYC he would have been killed.

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #778145
05/16/14 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: cornuto_e_contento
I think had he stayed in NYC he would have been killed.


Yeah. He was way too cocky and media friendly to last in a city like NY, especially in those days.

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #778181
05/16/14 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: cornuto_e_contento
I think had he stayed in NYC he would have been killed.


Was he not run out of New York in the first place.

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #778210
05/16/14 06:50 AM
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Yes he fled because Irish gangsters were stronger then he crossed paths a few times with them one slashed his face with a blade that gave him his famous scar, Yale organised him working for torrio in Chicago

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DonMega1888] #790019
07/17/14 09:04 PM
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True. Didnt he go to Chicago because he caused tensions and he was a liability? Thats why the Jewish mob sent Bugsy out, not because he was smart but because he was a problem

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: Snakes] #790058
07/18/14 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: Snakes
Costello was Calabrian and Genovese was Neapolitan. All of the bosses were Sicilian and families like the Bonannos and the Profacis were almost entirely composed of them but the rest of the families had members from mainland Italy. I think at the very least, Capone would have been a capo in some family, probably Luciano's.


Anastasia was also Calabrian

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: dominic_calabrese] #790114
07/18/14 10:02 AM
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Capone fled to Chicago because he had to. Police were after him for two murders, and an Irish gang, the White Handers, were hunting him for beating up one of their members. He probably would have been killed or gone to prison had he remained in NY.

Keep in mind that Torrio was no more than a well-connected ward heeler in Brooklyn before he moved to Chicago. There was far more opportunity for non-Sicilians like Torrio and Capone in Chicago than in NY at that time. The Outfit under Torrio and Capone wasn't a Mafia family, and included quite a few well-placed members who weren't even Italian.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: Turnbull] #790124
07/18/14 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Capone fled to Chicago because he had to. Police were after him for two murders, and an Irish gang, the White Handers, were hunting him for beating up one of their members. He probably would have been killed or gone to prison had he remained in NY.

Keep in mind that Torrio was no more than a well-connected ward heeler in Brooklyn before he moved to Chicago. There was far more opportunity for non-Sicilians like Torrio and Capone in Chicago than in NY at that time. The Outfit under Torrio and Capone wasn't a Mafia family, and included quite a few well-placed members who weren't even Italian.


I don't understand. Could someone clarify?

Wayne Johnson says the same in his book about the Outfit not being a Mafia family under Torrio and Capone. But it was considered a Mafia family under Ricca, Accardo and Giancana. Why ? Ricca, Accardo and Giancana included non-Italians such as Murray Humphreys and Gus Alex.

Last edited by GaryMartin; 07/18/14 05:03 PM.
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: GaryMartin] #790253
07/19/14 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: GaryMartin
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Capone fled to Chicago because he had to. Police were after him for two murders, and an Irish gang, the White Handers, were hunting him for beating up one of their members. He probably would have been killed or gone to prison had he remained in NY.

Keep in mind that Torrio was no more than a well-connected ward heeler in Brooklyn before he moved to Chicago. There was far more opportunity for non-Sicilians like Torrio and Capone in Chicago than in NY at that time. The Outfit under Torrio and Capone wasn't a Mafia family, and included quite a few well-placed members who weren't even Italian.


I don't understand. Could someone clarify?

Wayne Johnson says the same in his book about the Outfit not being a Mafia family under Torrio and Capone. But it was considered a Mafia family under Ricca, Accardo and Giancana. Why ? Ricca, Accardo and Giancana included non-Italians such as Murray Humphreys and Gus Alex.


The Capone organization was more like a gang.When Nitti and Ricca came to power,it was the Camorra crime syndicate(Al was also a Neapolitan).Accardo,Giancana,Aiuppa and so on...its the Mafia.The Outfit always had non-Italians included as made members,no matter what people say.And also no pricking finger ceremonies included...not until the 70's I think


He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: DBCooper] #790256
07/19/14 08:01 AM
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Capone had a friend from Italian Harlem his name was Agile. I might have missed spelled it. When I was a kid he was already an old man. I liked him he was a grand father kind of a guy to me.

He went to Chicago with Capone. He came back to Harlem before Capone went to Florida. He is the guy that vouched for me to get that 1000 dollar loan from that shy I told you about.

He loved to gamble. When he was not gambling in the gambling house he would get a blow jobs from some of the whores who worked in the place. He would go to the hotels in mid town and try to pick up young women. Talk about and old guy who in his head he was a twenty year old.

He would have definately known for sure who killed Big Jim. Hell maybe he did it.

My friend Johnnie also knew him. I mentioned to him he should write a book about that guy.

He was the oldest of 18 children. Mother kept putting them out with no way to afford them.

Here is how they handled that in the old days. She put him in an orphanage they had them in those days. Until he was old enough to work to help the family. She did the same with all the other kids that she had.

When he made some money. He started to get his other brothers and sisters out of the place.

He had bought NYC taxi medellians when they were ten dollars a piece. He had 150 of them give or take. Later sold them for 150 thousand a piece made a lot of money. They are maybe a million a piece now a rediculas amount of money.

He also owned other small businesses.


only the unloved hate
Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: Toodoped] #790263
07/19/14 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: Toodoped
Originally Posted By: GaryMartin
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Capone fled to Chicago because he had to. Police were after him for two murders, and an Irish gang, the White Handers, were hunting him for beating up one of their members. He probably would have been killed or gone to prison had he remained in NY.

Keep in mind that Torrio was no more than a well-connected ward heeler in Brooklyn before he moved to Chicago. There was far more opportunity for non-Sicilians like Torrio and Capone in Chicago than in NY at that time. The Outfit under Torrio and Capone wasn't a Mafia family, and included quite a few well-placed members who weren't even Italian.


I don't understand. Could someone clarify?

Wayne Johnson says the same in his book about the Outfit not being a Mafia family under Torrio and Capone. But it was considered a Mafia family under Ricca, Accardo and Giancana. Why ? Ricca, Accardo and Giancana includied non-Italians such as Murray

Humphreys and Gus Alex.


The Capone organization was more like a gang.When Nitti and Ricca came to power,it was the Camorra crime syndicate(Al was also a Neapolitan).Accardo,Giancana,Aiuppa and so on...its the Mafia.The Outfit always had non-Italians included as made members,no matter what people say.And also no pricking finger ceremonies included...not until the 70's I think


Thanks Toodoped.

Re: Would Al Capone became a New York Boss if... [Re: GaryMartin] #790271
07/19/14 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: GaryMartin
Originally Posted By: Toodoped
Originally Posted By: GaryMartin
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Capone fled to Chicago because he had to. Police were after him for two murders, and an Irish gang, the White Handers, were hunting him for beating up one of their members. He probably would have been killed or gone to prison had he remained in NY.

Keep in mind that Torrio was no more than a well-connected ward heeler in Brooklyn before he moved to Chicago. There was far more opportunity for non-Sicilians like Torrio and Capone in Chicago than in NY at that time. The Outfit under Torrio and Capone wasn't a Mafia family, and included quite a few well-placed members who weren't even Italian.


I don't understand. Could someone clarify?

Wayne Johnson says the same in his book about the Outfit not being a Mafia family under Torrio and Capone. But it was considered a Mafia family under Ricca, Accardo and Giancana. Why ? Ricca, Accardo and Giancana includied non-Italians such as Murray

Humphreys and Gus Alex.


The Capone organization was more like a gang.When Nitti and Ricca came to power,it was the Camorra crime syndicate(Al was also a Neapolitan).Accardo,Giancana,Aiuppa and so on...its the Mafia.The Outfit always had non-Italians included as made members,no matter what people say.And also no pricking finger ceremonies included...not until the 70's I think


Thanks Toodoped.


No problem GaryMartin.The thing is Accardo and Giancana never considered themselves as "the Mafia".They grew up mostly with non-sicilians or non-italians and none of them ever went to Sicily.They didnt have much respect for the old sicilian bosses like the Aiellos or the Gennas.

Turnbull is right,back in the days there was far more opportunities in the underworld for non-Sicilians in Chicago than in NY.So thats why the old Outfit always had a non-sicilian bosses like Torrio,Capone,Nitti,Fischetti's,Ricca...


He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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