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Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? #775571
05/04/14 10:31 AM
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cornuto_e_contento Offline OP
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Why do mainland Northern and Southern Italians hate Sicilians?

I have been reading in biographies about Southern mainland Italian businessmen who had a heritage that is from either Calabria or Campania, or Naples, and even a lot further north such as Venice and Tuscany where they said that Sicilians are "bad", "dirty", "not to be trusted", "not like us", or other nonsense that's bigoted and they would hurt or kill people who were Sicilian.

I have been told by Italian friends that mainland Italians from both the North, Central, and South on the mainland of Italy do not like Sicilians. Why is that?

To me as someone who is Hispanic it is puzzling since we do not hate other people from different countries who are also Hispanic. We just find the slang terms for words used in other countries to be different or odd but it's not hate, bigotry, or prejudice for people in those other countries. In Mexico if we want to say something is cool in slang we will say "Que padre!" but in other Latin American countries they say, "Que chévere!" in Spain they have a slang term for cool that is very offensive and I will not write it here.

I found the below link which I copied the text of into this thread.

http://www.usaonrace.com/sticky-wicket-questions/2313/why-are-italians-prejudiced-against-sicilians


Why do Italians appear to be prejudiced against Sicilians?


~Puzzled in Poughkeepsie


Dear Puzzled,


It is puzzling, isn’t it? Most Americans consider Sicilians to be Italians, so how can prejudice exist between people who live in different regions of the same country? Although this prejudice is considered by many to be more historical than contemporary, you will find that an ample number of Sicilian families who believe it still exists.


As a Sicilian-American woman in my mid-50’s, I can remember my grandmother’s childhood warning to me to always say I was Italian, not Sicilian, because if others knew I was Sicilian they would be mean to me. She based her instruction on the fact that the Italian women in our neighborhood wouldn’t eat the food she prepared for the parish potlucks because they believed that Sicilians were dirty, and food cooked in their kitchens was somehow contaminated. The memories of her warnings flooded back to me in 1996 when I made a batch of Sicilian fried green tomatoes for a neighbor man who had helped my husband change a flat tire soon after we moved into an ethnic neighborhood in Akron, Ohio. The man’s wife turned me away at the door, letting me know that Mr. Scarpetti would not like anything that I cooked.


There are a number of reasons that Italians might feel they are superior to Sicilians. Sicily has been an impoverished region since being robbed of its National Treasury in 1860 when it was occupied by the Italian Army. During the occupation, the factories of the region were disassembled and relocated to Northern Italy. Without a manufacturing base, the island was forced of olives, lemons, almonds, oranges, and grapes for economic survival.


Unfortunately, due to erupting volcanoes many of the regions crops were buried under lava, thereby forcing a wave of immigration to America.


Along with poverty, the heritage of Sicilians also assaulted their reputation. In 831 AD the Moors, dark-skinned Arabs, entered and dominated Palermo, and other major cities on the island. The Moorish reign lasted for 230 years. During that time there was much racial mixing that occurred. As a result, Northern Italians tend to look upon Sicilians as people of color.


If being perceived as poor, dirty, and being treated inferior because of race isn’t enough, Sicilians are also suspected of being criminals. La Cosa Nostra, or the Mafia, was born in Palermo in the mid 19th Century. Still today, some areas of Sicily are not under the full control of the legal government, but are run by the Mafia. The belief that all Sicilian families, whether they live in the U.S. or in their native land, must be in some way related to the mob, continues to live on in the thinking of some.


During the early 1900s, a wave of Italian and Sicilian immigrants entered the U.S. There was a cost to admission though, because the immigrant had to declare the amount of money they were bringing with them into the country. Those without funds were turned away. The average Northern Italian’s declaration was $23.53 while Sicilian’s averaged only $8.67. Those without funds were known to attempt to sneak into the country without proper documentation.


Immigrants without papers became known by their initials “WOP.” The terms Wop, Dago (refers to dirty), and Guinea (derived from “Guinea Negro”) were labels assigned to Sicilians because of their dark complexion by those who considered themselves to be Anglos, such as Northern Italians. Most recently, with the advent of the television show Jersey Shore, other ethnic slurs for both Italians and Sicilians have re-entered the American lexicon.


Goombah (a thug or Mafioso), and Guido or Guidette (Northern term referring to Italians who try to portray a mafia mentality) are once Sicilian and Italian heritage.


Discrimination in any form has never made much sense to me, so it is difficult to say exactly why some Italians might want to carry a bias against Sicilians, other than the fact that they were historically conditioned to do so. It is always difficult to justify the oppression of a group of people unless you can find a few reasons to feel as though you are superior to them, and I am certain the Italians have their reasons.



Sources:


http://www.italiamerica.org/id49.htm
http://www.gentracer.com/history.html


- See more at: http://www.usaonrace.com/sticky-wicket-q...h.PC8p0MLg.dpuf

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775574
05/04/14 10:42 AM
05/04/14 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: cornuto_e_contento
To me as someone who is Hispanic it is puzzling since we do not hate other people from different countries who are also Hispanic.

I don't know about that, Cornuto. Here in the Bronx there's quite a bit of animosity between the Dominicans and the Puerto Ricans. Between the Mexicans and Puerto Ricans as well.

When Trinidad fought DeLaHoya back in the '90s, the Mexicans and Puerto Ricans were at each other here like cats and dogs. There were lots of arrests and near riots on the night of the fight.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775577
05/04/14 10:52 AM
05/04/14 10:52 AM
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dixiemafia Offline
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It's really not that puzzling to me even though I don't know shit about Italy or Sicily.

For example:

Here in the South say here in Alabama, we consider Mississippi a dumber bunch than us. Idiots per say. Just like I'm sure LaLouisiane considers Mississippi or Arkansas the same way we do Mississippi. Even though there is not a whole lot of difference (there is some) in the states, it's just the way we think. Even though we are Southerners and will stand up for the South at times, we hate each other any other time.

Just think about it. Pizza are y'all the same way? Like do you consider folks on Long Island stuck up or anything like that?

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: dixiemafia] #775582
05/04/14 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
Pizza are y'all the same way? Like do you consider folks on Long Island stuck up or anything like that?

Well, maybe the women whistle whistle .

Remember Janice, Chandler's nasal girlfriend on "Friends"?

Talk about a stereotyped group of broads! lol lol

And I'm joking, of course. But the Italian American and Jewish women on Long Island do tend to have high hair and talk through their noses lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775595
05/04/14 11:17 AM
05/04/14 11:17 AM
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I thought it was because Italians in the northern industrial cities were richer and looked down on southern Italians?


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775607
05/04/14 11:52 AM
05/04/14 11:52 AM
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carmela Offline
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This is ridiculous. Italians do not hate sicilians and vice versa. I've been in Sicily plenty times in August when mainlanders come down to vacation in Sicily. There is no animosity.

What I have seen, is Sicilians coming over to the US, and sticking with their own kind. And by their own kind, I mean other immigrants, not sicilian-americans.
They don't trust anyone as a rule, though. Not even each other.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: carmela] #775610
05/04/14 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: carmela
This is ridiculous. Italians do not hate sicilians and vice versa. I've been in Sicily plenty times in August when mainlanders come down to vacation in Sicily. There is no animosity.

clap clap clap clap

Oh, and by the way, that's the definitive answer.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775613
05/04/14 12:23 PM
05/04/14 12:23 PM
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Moe_Tilden Offline
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But Carmela, maybe they hate each other the other 11 months of the year.

*Cowers*


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: carmela] #775616
05/04/14 12:33 PM
05/04/14 12:33 PM
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LuanKuci Offline
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Originally Posted By: carmela
This is ridiculous. Italians do not hate sicilians and vice versa. I've been in Sicily plenty times in August when mainlanders come down to vacation in Sicily. There is no animosity.


exactly


Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
I thought it was because Italians in the northern industrial cities were richer and looked down on southern Italians?


northern italian regions were as poor, if not even poorer, than most southern ones during the great emigration years (1860 - 1930).

1876 - 1900, 5 millions, mostly Northerns
1900 - 1915, 9 millions, North/South tied
1915 - 1945, 4 millions, slightly more Northerns than Southerns
1945 - 1976, 5 millions, mostly Southerns (high numbers flock to Norther Italy)
1976 - 2000, 3 millions, slightly more Southerns than Northerns
2000 - ongoing, 780 thousands, North/South tied

since the formation of Italy as a united country in 1861, roughly 30 million italians moved elsewhere, which is half of its current population of 60 million.
Basically, if one counts all siblings born abroad to italian immigrants, there are more "italians" outside of italy than on italian soil.

out of all Italian regions, the one that has seen more of its residents move out is Veneto.




sources: ISTAT, Fondazione Migrantes, Fondazione Agnelli, Museo dell'Emigrazione, Fondazione Altreitalie, Fare Geo Informazioni, Memorie Grandi Migrazioni, M.E.M Museo del Mare di Genova

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775617
05/04/14 12:45 PM
05/04/14 12:45 PM
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LittleNicky Offline
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Better yet why does this troll cornuto_e_contento still get responses


Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison.
I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate...
for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: carmela] #775626
05/04/14 02:04 PM
05/04/14 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: carmela
What I have seen, is Sicilians coming over to the US, and sticking with their own kind. And by their own kind, I mean other immigrants, not sicilian-americans.
They don't trust anyone as a rule, though. Not even each other.


That is being smart though when you think about it. If I moved to Sicily I'd want to be around other Americans just to feel somewhat safe. I wouldn't trust the bastards further than I could throw them and I'm not saying Sicily is dangerous but that is what would make me feel safer than just plowing through town not knowing what is what.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775724
05/05/14 05:02 AM
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m2w Offline
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northern italians hate the southerner, not just sicilians but calabrians and especially neapolitans also
that's coz of the big immigrations from south to north started in the 50s

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775727
05/05/14 05:36 AM
05/05/14 05:36 AM
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Footreads Offline
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I think it could be because northern Italians our better looking then Sicilians.


only the unloved hate
Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: m2w] #775740
05/05/14 06:10 AM
05/05/14 06:10 AM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: m2w
northern italians hate the southerner, not just sicilians but calabrians and especially neapolitans also
that's coz of the big immigrations from south to north started in the 50s


Come on, that's not true and you know it. Is that the way that you feel toward sicilians? I mean they make remarks about one another, referring to each other by not so nice names, they think their own food is better, etc etc, but this outright hate, I don't see it.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: carmela] #775755
05/05/14 06:51 AM
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m2w Offline
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Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: m2w
northern italians hate the southerner, not just sicilians but calabrians and especially neapolitans also
that's coz of the big immigrations from south to north started in the 50s


Come on, that's not true and you know it. Is that the way that you feel toward sicilians? I mean they make remarks about one another, referring to each other by not so nice names, they think their own food is better, etc etc, but this outright hate, I don't see it.


not like the past but still in some northern places yes

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: m2w] #775761
05/05/14 07:13 AM
05/05/14 07:13 AM
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USICILIANU Offline
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It is true that in the North some close-minded people will see southerners as lazy, criminals, peasants, ecc. but less than in the past.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775762
05/05/14 07:18 AM
05/05/14 07:18 AM
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m2w Offline
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yes, less than the past, but still today there are several southerners living in the north especially in the biggest cities like milan or turin

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775820
05/05/14 11:43 AM
05/05/14 11:43 AM
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HuronSocialAthletic Offline
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Honestly what is a Sicilian? The seafaring Iberian tribal folk of old has been deluded beyond recognition at this point. I'm Sicilian, but what am I really? I Have much more in common with a Tunisian than with a motherfucking Tuscan.

Everyone from the Normands to the Berbers have occupied & pillaged Sicily.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: HuronSocialAthletic] #775822
05/05/14 11:45 AM
05/05/14 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: HuronSocialAthletic
Honestly what is a Sicilian? The seafaring Iberian tribal folk of old has been deluded beyond recognition at this point. I'm Sicilian, but what am I really? I Have much more in common with a Tunisian than with a motherfucking Tuscan.

Everyone from the Normands to the Berbers have occupied & pillaged Sicily.

Relax. You're from Chicago lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: pizzaboy] #775824
05/05/14 11:46 AM
05/05/14 11:46 AM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: HuronSocialAthletic
Honestly what is a Sicilian? The seafaring Iberian tribal folk of old has been deluded beyond recognition at this point. I'm Sicilian, but what am I really? I Have much more in common with a Tunisian than with a motherfucking Tuscan.

Everyone from the Normands to the Berbers have occupied & pillaged Sicily.

Relax. You're from Chicago lol.


yeah exactly!


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775832
05/05/14 11:53 AM
05/05/14 11:53 AM
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HuronSocialAthletic Offline
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Well right. Regardless, anyone that clings to some type of 'ooga booga' caveman tribal 'im from such & such and I have proof!' aesthetic needs a reality check. Especially if you're claiming an area like Sicily, an island that has been raped & pillaged & shat on so many times over it's borderline comical

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: HuronSocialAthletic] #775833
05/05/14 11:54 AM
05/05/14 11:54 AM
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Originally Posted By: HuronSocialAthletic
Well right. Regardless, anyone that clings to some type of 'ooga booga' caveman tribal 'im from such & such and I have proof!' aesthetic needs a reality check. Especially if you're claiming an area like Sicily, an island that has been raped & pillaged & shat on so many times over it's borderline comical


Whatever rant you're on about now, who cares. Point is, you're born in america, you're american.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775837
05/05/14 12:01 PM
05/05/14 12:01 PM
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HuronSocialAthletic Offline
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I'm not anything besides human. I'm not laying claim to any area. America is a nation compiled of European outcast colonies anyways. Honestly the fact that we still need to identify with race & territory in today's day & age is sad & sickening

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775838
05/05/14 12:02 PM
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cornuto_e_contento Offline OP
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I have met Sicilian American people who look very Iberian or Spanish; but then I read about how people from what's now Valencia in Spain went there.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: HuronSocialAthletic] #775840
05/05/14 12:05 PM
05/05/14 12:05 PM
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Originally Posted By: HuronSocialAthletic
I'm not anything besides human. I'm not laying claim to any area. America is a nation compiled of European outcast colonies anyways. Honestly the fact that we still need to identify with race & territory in today's day & age is sad & sickening


Fair enough, my fellow human. I was just going by your reply a couple posts up where you said, "I'm sicilian, but what am I really?" I hate riddles.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775844
05/05/14 12:09 PM
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HuronSocialAthletic Offline
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The climate there also attributes to the collective skin tone in certain areas. But regardless, Sicily is a legendary dumping ground for surrounding empires. It's a hodgepodge.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: carmela] #775845
05/05/14 12:11 PM
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HuronSocialAthletic Offline
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Gotchya smile

Humans unite.

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775847
05/05/14 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: cornuto_e_contento
I have met Sicilian American people who look very Iberian or Spanish; but then I read about how people from what's now Valencia in Spain went there.


There was a union between Aragon and the kingdom of Naples (which included sicily) in the late 1400s. It was later part of the spanish empire/Habsburg Monarchy. So there is a decent amount of spanish blood in addition to the berber, norman, french, german, greek, etc etc. Might have among the most diverse blood lines on earth.


Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison.
I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate...
for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: LittleNicky] #775851
05/05/14 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
Originally Posted By: cornuto_e_contento
I have met Sicilian American people who look very Iberian or Spanish; but then I read about how people from what's now Valencia in Spain went there.


There was a union between Aragon and the kingdom of Naples (which included sicily) in the late 1400s. It was later part of the spanish empire/Habsburg Monarchy. So there is a decent amount of spanish blood in addition to the berber, norman, french, german, greek, etc etc. Might have among the most diverse blood lines on earth.


OK I meant long before that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicani

The Sicani are thought to be the oldest inhabitants of Sicily with a recorded name. The Greek historian Thucydides[1] claimed they immigrated from the Iberian Peninsula (perhaps Valencia)

Re: Why do mainland Italians hate Sicilians? [Re: cornuto_e_contento] #775863
05/05/14 02:39 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,531
Greg scarpa whose family was from the high north didn't have a problem getting made into a family of Sicilians in1951 profaci was around way before gambino was a boss. and scarpa new him and his brothers I don't think it was that big a problem in nyc. he tells this all to his FBI friends.

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