What everyone else said. I am not too up on my NYC CN knowledge, but I know in DEAL WITH THE DEVIL, it was stated that Vic Orena was made solely on his ability to earn and that he never killed anyone. I don't know the veracity of that claim though.

I honestly don't think Orena ordered anyone hit. As far as DWtD is concerned Scarpa was fomenting the war by hitting whoever he could, making look like Orena was had battle plans. I do believe on Scarpa's death bed he admitted that Orena killed no one and that a lame brain Federal Judge dismissed Scarpa's word as another ploy… Orena's kids claim that they NEVER even kept fire arms in the house until all that shit went down, and even then, the guns they did have were all 12 g. that they had for hunting.

DWtD even puts forth that Scarpa even was behind the "hit" that Little Linda got in the middle of. How many times in history does a van full of hitters miss hitting anyone entirely??

Fuck Moe_Tilden makes me chuckle

He was once a made man in America's most dangerous crime family. A hired killer. A stone cold gangster. They said he could not be rehabilitated.

*Close up of priest collar and several tawdry gold chains* *Gunshots*

Until he became a priest.

Now one man faces a battle between good and evil. The sins of his past and the redemption of tomorrow.

Orena: Mafia Priest

in theaters September 28.

While we agree on the part that (especially today) there are many made members who never pulled the trigger, are there many members who really were never involved in murders in any way, not even as one who helped planning it, or provided the guns, or was the getaway driver, or at least was informed about it and didn't do anything to prevent it?

Jerry Angiulo is probably the most known example of a mafioso who was made because of money making skills, not violence, yet he was involved in at least 3 hits (Rocco DiSeglio, Joe Barboza, Angelo Patrizzi).

Pasquale "Pat the Cat" Spriito wasn't killed precisely for the fact he didn't want to kill and tried to compensate it with making more money, but nevertheless did participate in Dominick DeVito's murder.

Vito Cascio Ferro said before dying in prison said he never killed anyone, EXCEPT for Joe Petrosino.

Vincent Falcone who was killed by Scarfo: from most descriptions he seems more like just a crooked businessman that a killer, yet he helped Leonetti to kill Louis DeMarco.

Only Frank D'Alfonso, also whacked by Scarfo seems not to have killed anyone, but was he a made member?

One of the nice things about being a Mafia Don is that you get to make the rules for your family. One of the Don's prerogatives is qualifications for being made, and that may or may not include having killed someone. As Ivy said, probably no man would be made whom the Don didn't think would kill on orders, but that's a practical matter, not written in any "rulebook" (which doesn't exist anyway).

If memory serves, Fat Vinny Teresa, in his book, "My Life in the Mafia," said that Patriarca didn't have a ceremony for made men, complete with the finger-pricking, burning saint's card, kisses on cheeks, etc.--the stuff of legend that most people think is universal in Mafia families. "They just called you to the Office and told you that you were in," he said.

I turned down soilder and capo at the age of 17 it was 1 and 3 on a contract

I just couldnt do it

Capo at 17, wow you must have been good..