The Castellano Gotti Thread has got me wondering. Who has done the most harm/damage to their family or the mob generally?
I think I'd have to go for Joe Bonnano. He himself claimed at the beginning of the sixties The Bonnano's were the tightest most loyal family. By the end of it they had been split and at war and Bonnano himself had lost the family.
Add to this deciding to write a book about his life. Which got him in a huge pile of shit and has been claimed to be the basis/ inspiration for the Commission case.

Amuso and Casso

Carmine persico not relinquishing power of the colombos

Nicky scarfo aswel

I think vito genovese is a hell of a candidate if not the winner. Without him valachi would've never flipped and the mob would maybe still have a good 10-20 years before the feds and/or the public figured out the whole hierarchy and whos who of the mob

difficult question at all. It were many circumstances and i do not believe giacomoD that it would have take like 10-20 until the first big rat... it was just a matter of time, could have happen anytime. Think
nr. 1 is def. Gotti Sr.. For all the Press interest and bringing the mob into the public interest
Nr 2 should been tied between c. persico|casso/amuso|for nearly destroying each of there family.
nr. 3 maybe Frank calabrese jr. for the near of extinction what was left of the outfit.
nr 4 scarfo sr.

The guy who did the real damage in family secrets was Nick. Frank Jr only put his dad away but Nick was responsible for putting Lombardo, Marcello, Schiro, and everyone else away.

But many people on here think Family Secrets put Chicago close to extinction for some reason. Marcello was a HUGE loss but everybody else who was put away were either shelved (Calabrese) or retired (Lombardo, Schiro). It was very overhyped by both the media and FBI.

yeah but frank jr. had his influence on his uncle. i dont think nick would've flipped without frank jr

Francis Ford Coppola.

He made the image so admirable, you can't help but be disappointed when you see the real thing. Hence making it easy to rat .

the first and second rats in the massino family destroy them. think it was frank coppa he was in jail for extortion and got indicted again for the parking lot schem they had going, he would have got another 2 yrs tagged on his sentence and Richard shellack head or what ever his name was. the 1 2 punch flipped sal vitale and the rest is history. is massino already showing his face around nyc.

Yeah coppa was the first guy to flip and canterella was the guy who was taped by Barry Weinberg . To be honest u can trace all the troubles the bonnanos had bak to Weinberg

All of the people you guys have mentioned have significantly contributed to the fall of the mafia but I am surprised that no one has mentioned Gotti. He angered the FBI so much they were determined to "Stop" organized crime. Yeah, him and all the informers

i have gotti on my #1

#1 Gotti Sr
#2 Carmine Persico
#3 Amuso & Casso
#4 Joe Valachi
#5 Paul Castellano

Gotti for courting the limelight, Sammy the Bull for flipping, Angie Ruggiero for his big mouth (and for being the only mobster who never dressed well, LOL), Valachi for flipping back in the day, Joey Pistone for the successful infiltration...

Gotti only hastened the process. Don't forget, the Commission case indictments were handed down while Paul was still alive.

What I'm trying to say is, Gotti didn't help, and he certainly provoked the Feds into moving a little more zealously against the Gambinos. But between RICO, Giualiani and everything else, the Feds would have eventually done just as much damage to a Mafia without John Gotti, as it did to the Mafia with John Gotti.

eventually. but i srsly doubt it. remember: the gambino's had no heat at all from the commission case, PC and Dellacroce were both dead. so all i wanna say is, if PC had have been replaced with an actual smart guy, the feds would've done real minor dmg to the gambinos

I don't think any boss or family was the reason LCN isn't what is used to be. Like I said in the Castellano/Gotti thread, I think Gotti actually helped the families prosper into the 21 century. He not only was a role model for Italian gangsters, but for gangsters and from all different races. Think of how many rappers use Gotti in their stage name or in their lyrics. There is only a few other gangsters that have that kind of name recognition. Gotti, Capone, Pablo Escobar, maybe Chapo Guzman?

The main reason for their decline, is that Italian Americans (Irish and Jews, too) have assimilated into a higher social economical status. Wikipedia says that in 1990, "more than 65% of Italian Americans were managerial, professional, or white-collar workers." Think of what the percentage would be today. Most Italians don't live in the hood anymore, and in NYC, thanks to gentrification, neighborhoods that used to be low-income are now some of the most expensive real estate in the country. Most Italians in America live on the East coast, the most wealthy part of the country.

Another reason, is that LCN is actually a fairly small gang. Most of the members were actually families. Part of the reason they are so publicized and romanticized, among other things, is the fact they pretty much created the model for modern gangs. By the '70s, other groups were expanding the on the platform they created and taking it to the next level. Since then, they haven't been able to keep up with these more young violent gangs.

Thanks to Nixon declaring "War on Drugs," and Reagan expanding it to an unprecedented level, we now have more prisoners the any country in the world. This gave rise to prison gangs and a prison culture. LCN was scared of prison for the most part. That was the main reason they killed anyone. The goal was to make money and stay out of the can. These days, kids want to go to prison. Its like going to college for them. You can't be in most gangs if you have done time.

Are you sure of that? I thought Castellano was recorded talking about a whole bunch of sensitive mob info, especially once the found out the correct place to place the bug. I remember reading that the feds discovered people in the mob they never knew about because of those taps. I also thought the learned a lot of the workings of the concrete club.

They also found out that the Gambinos had a monopoly on blow up wee wees.

Salvatore Contorno, and Greg Scarpa Sr.

Greg Scarpa is someone who would have a lot to answer for. To be honest I've never read much about him. But I saw a documentary about the Commission case recently. One of the cops was indicating he got massive cooperation from him for not much pressure. The cop was saying they got from Scarpa the idea where to place the Castellano bug the one in Tony ducks Jag and the Ruggerio one.

Nicky scarfo he used kids that weren't ready for what he forced them to do mainly murders that would have never been sanctioned by Ange

maybe they weren't ready because they didn't really want to carry out the hit?

Maybe but again many of them were young guys in their early twenties they were just kids. Bruno ran a respected organization based on making money not headlines scarfo absolutely destroyed it because he was a homicidal maniac and forced these young guys to commit his murders.

Bonanno had other families influencing events to undermine his power. Bonanno wasn't perfect but there are many other mafioso who have done far worse damage to their family. My vote is Amuso and Casso, a case could be made for Gravano also.

Robert Blakely

Haha nice

For mobster: Nicky Scarfo over Gravano for sure and Vic and Gas only due to the sheer size of philly family.

For feds: Robert Blakey because one way or another there would have been a Donnie Brasco come along at some point.

Amuso/Casso, Scarfo, these guys practically forced the hands of their guys to cooperate against them thinking - or knowing - they'd inevitably be ordered clipped

I would say that Amuso/Casso yes I agree. If someone had the balls to clip Scarfo they would of been much better off...