Interesting that you bring up white collar crime. One change in our country that I have noticed is that these days everyone from the judges to the man on the street seem to have a permissive attitude toward white collar crime. Everybody wants to lynch beggars who steal a few hundred dollars of copper pipe from an abandoned building scheduled to be demolished, but steal hundreds of hard working people's retirements and no one bats an eyelash.

Exactly. People don't like small timers cause no one likes a loser. If you're gonna steal, you gotta steal big. Look at the price fixing case against American and Japanese car parts companies last year. The skimmed something like 1.6 billion dollars over a few years that, ultimately, came from consumers. Do you think they'll get sentences llonger Than a guy who holds up a gas station? There are probably libertarians out there who don't even think price fixing is a crime. White collar stuff beats dealing drugs any day.

I would assume that under a two party system, the politics of crime probably waffle semi-frequently. I think, one of the major downfalls, is the idea that all people can fit into one of two political philosophies when the truth is, even people who are partisan and align themselves with one particular party do not necessarily agree with the litany of "republican" or "democratic" dogma.

So, yeah, wouldn't surprise me if it was Democrat for a couple decades, then republican, etc. It probably really depends on who they stand to gain the most (or lose the least) from.

I think it's an interesting incongruity.

Democratic policies create an environment more appealing to OC with more opportunity for corruption (eg unions, govt program's) etc but Ironically (and credit to getthesenets) mafia ethos/attitude would I suspect be quite republican. That is, minimal taxation, regulation, free enterprise etc.

So whilst the mafia prefers liberal institutions it is only for the opportunity to corrupt them. Democratic policies are preferable, but only because it affords the opportunity for abuse.

So, whilst the democrats is the obvious answer, it is an interesting paradox deserving of a more in depth response.

Again, getthesenets deserves recognition for raising an interesting and valid perspective.

Even socially, Republicanism tends to hold true to its "old fashioned" perspectives, as is mafia culture.

That statement isn't true. I'm a union member in Philly and my father is a union official and on the democratic committee in New Jersey. They were all backing the Democratic Party.

If your a union member the Republican Party is a terrible for your livelihood. I grew up a democrat and live by the motto build union buy American.

F the republicans. Terrible in my opinion.

It's not a valid prospective, because there is nobody in the universe actually proposing doing away with the basic laws that protect individuals from assault, theft, breach of contract, and fraud. Richard Epstein has written about it- these are the basic prerequisites to a civil society and a functioning market. What the mafia does (fraud, antitrust, force) has been recognized since the 1700s (Adam Smith talked about it) to be both dangerous to markets and not to be accepted by government that attempt to foster free enterprise.

It's like saying democrats are pro-choice, and therefore want mandatory abortion. It's nonsense and its moronic nonsense at that.

Even the night watchmen state of the 1800s, which can be said to be the most libertarian, the most minimal, the chief role of government is to protect individuals against force and fraud via various various civil service, prisons, the executive, the judiciary.

Now you talk as if questioning federal regulation in kind and scale now is paramount to effectively approving of mafia busines deals. This especially rich considering the fact that the government is double the size it was during the Clinton administration and the Code of Federal Regulation has gone from several thousand pages to 180,000+ over the past several decades. In fact when they asked the Congressional Research Service to compile basic crimes under the federal code and applicable regulation- they reported there are so many it is impossible to track them all.

If anything plethora of business reg help the Mafia, because it makes legitimate business hard to form and capitalize. The Mafia, by its nature, don't follow the law to begin with. Black market and corruption look more lucrative under high regulatory environments, and especially markets that feature state mandated monopolies. The windows fixing case could not have happened in a right-to-work state not giving out massive government grants.

Perhaps I did not explain myself well.

I was simply pointing out an interesting paradox that the mafia thrives moreso in a left orientated political sphere not out of support but quite the opposite, for opportunity for abuse.

Regards mafia political orientation I see vastly more commonality with a right ethos than a left.

When was the last time you heard a wiseguy happy for a tax increase.
Or even paid tax to begin with?

The Irony being that they thrive better in an environment contrary to their probable beliefs.

Hence the paradox.

No, you just watched David Chase's moronic Sopranos portrayal of mobsters as republicans and think its even close to reality.

Let me say this again, I never found a single republican mobster. There was a colombo that was suggested to be one, but I can't tell whether he has actually been in the life for the last 20 years. Those that register, and felons can in New York, are all democrats. And they are for very simple business and criminal justice reasons. Again, it also makes sense in the context of 7 in 10 felons being democrats. This tells us nothing about which party posits the correct public policy solutions. I think neither do. But they are just the facts.

The attempt to make up more "just-so stories", unverifiable and unfalsifiable narrative explanation of facts that don't exist is a worthless exercise.

What the fuck are you rambling about? Are you a phd or some shit

Well I guess I stand corrected.

(And my online dictionary hates you )

(And easy on the Sopranos Nick, James isn't even cold! )

Yea such a shame he died. R.I.P. Big guy

We and others here could argue over theory all day long. But I think the original question was in more real life, practical terms. And there shouldn't be any question about that.

Nothing wrong with exploring an interesting facet to the question Ivy.

And keep in mind 99% of everything on this website is theory.

Republicans let the waste management companies get away with more dumping, so I'd say it's a toss up

Mobsters usually go with whoever will help them the most and harass them the least

It isn't just David Chase. I think a lot of those guys are Republican these days...its not the 50's anymore

Also they are extorting money and not reporting all their taxes so I'm sure they are registering democrat so they can play broke and get that damn IRS off their asses...

good point IVY league

I don't mind if people branch out to historical Mafia/Government ties anyways it may give us more insight but yh definitely democrat anyways republicans probably hate the mafia cause they somehow ruin the lives of the 1% when guys like John Gotti portray themselves that way

I was thinking in real life practical terms.

If someone wrote..ok...mafia members come from a certain demographic (socio economic, religion, American region)and their voting patterns would tend to mirror other members of that demographic, I could buy buy that.

Other than that....every post is just another person's opinion.

We're dealing with speculation in every thread here. Every post is ALWAYS just another persons opinion.

I think there are about three reasons for this

-I'm not sure that many people can honestly understand some of the white collar crimes and may view them as victim-less crimes. A street crime is pretty simple to understand and involves the taking of a physical object People have short attention spans.
A crude ponzi acheme is easy to understand and there are identifiable victims. Harder to get people to see insider trading or junk bond fraud as clear outright crimes.

-Class. White collar crimes are associated with well educated and wealthy people..street crimes associated with poor and uneducated people. People aspire to be wealthy and think that relating to the wealthy somehow helps them.(Mental placebo)

I disagree just like your handle it comes down to having N*ts?

@Sonny

Yeah, that's the way I thought things worked here. State your opinion, corroborate and then another person can either agree or challenge your points and then back up their stance with points of their own.

====


@LittleNicky

I thought I would come back to this thread and read you apologizing to me like a man after you jumped to conclusions, but I won't hold my breath.

It's NETS.....as in NJ NETS....as in since the team is leaving..Brooklyn can get these nets.


But, you're saying Bernie Madoff had N*ts?

Sorry for jumping into the conversation late. I'm an independent too, but there's a wide range among us. Anyway, I have to dispute what you wrote about the Republicans wanting "no government regulation of business." That's closer to a libertarian position, but even the libertarians would have some regulation, such as regulation against fraud. The Republicans are not against ALL regulation, but are against OPPRESSIVE regulation and OVER REGULATION. So what you wrote was not only an exaggeration, but a straw man fallacy. It's a false caricature of what they believe. I'd like to know the source for this bogus claim that they want no regulation of any kind at all. Less regulation is not the same as zero regulation.

On the Mafia being capitalist, I would disagree with that too. How is the Mafia in any sense free market? Lying, deception, fraud, cheating, threatening, bullying, robbing and murdering are not capitalist. Having a criminal street tax is free market? Aren't Republicans known for wanting to lower taxes? This in itself contradicts your claim.

Admittingly, I have seen libertarian defenses of loan sharking. I could see a legal basis for a version of high interest loans without the violence. They do serve a purpose and normally people freely take the loans knowing the risk. Pay-Day Loans are a type of high interest loan that is legal and doesn't use violence when debts are not paid. However, criminal violence is never capitalist or free market.

In a free market there have to be a rational and moral set of rules that people/the market follows. Theft is an example of breaking this set of rules, whether it's an owner shorting her employees or an employee stealing property. Some have called Socialism theft since it involves the government confiscating the earnings (in an excessive way) of a worker in a way that is not morally justified. For the government to force a business to pay a lazy unproductive employee the same as hard-working one is not only unfair, it is coercive and it devalues the labor being done. Soon the hard-working employee will realize that it does not pay to be productive, so overall production decreases as incentive is taken away. Likewise, when the Mafia takes over a business the incentive of the coerced owner decreases and the company will collapse.

Again, I have to wonder where these straw men are coming from. If you want to know what a political party really believes, read its platform. For economics, I suggest starting with The Fortune Encyclopedia of Economics.

Pointless rhetoric. What party or political theory is in favour of OPPRESSIVE and OVER REGULATION?

You may as well say the republicans stand for good things and are against bad.



None of these things are Democrat either. None of these things are ANY political philosophy.




A street Tax is no Tax at all. It is simple extortion.
The purpose of Tax is to maintain public infrastructure, services, the military etc. The Mafia's 'Tax' serves zero public service and is no more a tax than in name. So this doesn't contradict any claim whatsoever.



Nor is it a political philosophy.



A free market SIMPLY and ONLY means the the economics of supply and demand determine market forces.
It has nothing to do with rationale and certainly any moral set of rules.

When I say "real life, practical terms," I mean actual history. The politicians in New York, New Jersey, Chicago, and elsewhere who have been caught up with the mob in the past have been overwhelmingly Democrats.

I can't believe this thread is still going, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway. Being that there's not much collusion going on between wiseguys and politicians today, you have to go all the way back.

It was the mob's political connections back in the '30s and '40s which allowed them to become the powerhouse they eventually became. It's the very reason no start-up ethnic crime group today can ever match what they accomplished: You just can't buy that kind of political protection in today's world.

And if you're going to talk about that time period, it begins and ends with Frank Costello and the crooked Tammany Hall Democrats. Now I'm sure that Republican judges and politicians took bribes, too. But Costello's bread and butter was his political allies in the Democratic party. It's no contest.