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Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? #763150
02/12/14 09:35 AM
02/12/14 09:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
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Cajunland
LaLouisiane Offline OP
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LaLouisiane  Offline OP
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Hey guys, with the recent busts going on in NY and Italy, it got me to thinking:

Has Italian Law Enforcement ever tried to infiltrate any of the mafia groups the way the FBI did with Joe Pistone AKA Donnie Bracso or Jack Garcia?

Would it be too difficult/dangerous given these groups do tend to be more secretive and violent? Lack of funds? Lack of willingness of agents to go undercover? Thanks for your responses in advance!

Last edited by LaLouisiane; 02/12/14 11:12 AM.

"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: LaLouisiane] #763175
02/12/14 12:56 PM
02/12/14 12:56 PM
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slumpy Offline
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My best guess (emphasis on guess) is that infiltration has been tried infrequently and probably ruled too risky. Italy's mafia related corruption is much more systemic than America's. Shit, italy has prime ministers under investigation for rubbing elbows with the mafia.

I'm not sure that infiltration is really the primary use for undercover police work though, more often it's used specifically to catch people in the act of committing a crime without entrapping them.

If you want to look into it deeper, I'd suggest reading up on Guardia di Finanza, which I BELIEVE is the police agency that typically deals with the Mafia. You might find the answer to what you're looking for there.

You could also try reading up the Carabinieri because I *think* they were responsible for a lot of the mafia dealings back before the Giovanni Falcone hit. They might have attempted some infiltration work, but again, I can't say with any certainty.

I did a quick google search for "itaian police undercover" but didn't come up with anything definitive. to me, that says that there probably haven't been many meaningful infiltrations, such as with the Pistone operation.

As a university alumn I still have access to all kinds of scholarly journals, I'll do some further research when I get home from the office. Hopefully I can find something more, because now I'm curious.

Last edited by slumpy; 02/12/14 01:03 PM.
Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: slumpy] #763176
02/12/14 01:13 PM
02/12/14 01:13 PM
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LaLouisiane Offline OP
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Where did you graduate from man?


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: LaLouisiane] #763179
02/12/14 01:32 PM
02/12/14 01:32 PM
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slumpy Offline
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slumpy  Offline
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University of Winnipeg, I have a general arts BA with a major in history and a minor in sociology/anthropology.

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: LaLouisiane] #763182
02/12/14 01:54 PM
02/12/14 01:54 PM
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LaLouisiane Offline OP
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Ohh cool man Louisiana State University here Poli Sci and International Relations


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: LaLouisiane] #763184
02/12/14 01:59 PM
02/12/14 01:59 PM
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slumpy Offline
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Kind of in the same realm of study. I always wanted to get into poli-sci but my school had such limited space and those classes tended to fill up first day of registration.

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: LaLouisiane] #763211
02/12/14 04:08 PM
02/12/14 04:08 PM
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LaLouisiane Offline OP
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I haven't been able to find any cases. I thought some of the posters like Carmela or Strax would have better insight on if they ever tried an undercover.

Anyways I was googling myself to end ends of internet and came across this. Pretty interesting:

https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/defa...ssessment_0.pdf


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: LaLouisiane] #763212
02/12/14 04:09 PM
02/12/14 04:09 PM
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LaLouisiane Offline OP
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"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: slumpy] #763256
02/12/14 06:26 PM
02/12/14 06:26 PM
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Ted Offline
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Originally Posted By: slumpy
University of Winnipeg, I have a general arts BA with a major in history and a minor in sociology/anthropology.

I use to live in Winnipeg before moving to the USA.


"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: slumpy] #763264
02/12/14 06:44 PM
02/12/14 06:44 PM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: slumpy
My best guess (emphasis on guess) is that infiltration has been tried infrequently and probably ruled too risky. Italy's mafia related corruption is much more systemic than America's. Shit, italy has prime ministers under investigation for rubbing elbows with the mafia.

I'm not sure that infiltration is really the primary use for undercover police work though, more often it's used specifically to catch people in the act of committing a crime without entrapping them.

If you want to look into it deeper, I'd suggest reading up on Guardia di Finanza, which I BELIEVE is the police agency that typically deals with the Mafia. You might find the answer to what you're looking for there.

You could also try reading up the Carabinieri because I *think* they were responsible for a lot of the mafia dealings back before the Giovanni Falcone hit. They might have attempted some infiltration work, but again, I can't say with any certainty.

I did a quick google search for "itaian police undercover" but didn't come up with anything definitive. to me, that says that there probably haven't been many meaningful infiltrations, such as with the Pistone operation.

As a university alumn I still have access to all kinds of scholarly journals, I'll do some further research when I get home from the office. Hopefully I can find something more, because now I'm curious.


Guardia di Finanza is dealing with anything that has to do with big money, finances (finanza)

Direzione Nazionale Antimafia is where any undercover agents would come from. They are anti-mafia on a national level.

A lot of mafia blitzes are performed by Squadra Mobile, with special units being brought in for high profile arrests, usually for fugitives, breaking into their hideouts, etc.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: carmela] #763288
02/12/14 09:24 PM
02/12/14 09:24 PM
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"Guardia di Finanza is dealing with anything that has to do with big money, finances (finanza)

Direzione Nazionale Antimafia is where any undercover agents would come from. They are anti-mafia on a national level.

A lot of mafia blitzes are performed by Squadra Mobile, with special units being brought in for high profile arrests, usually for fugitives, breaking into their hideouts, etc."

I know that in the NYPD they have special units for organized crime in the city and the state of NY does too. Do you know if any Italian cities or states have their own mafia investigation agencies or are they generally viewed as being in the pocket of local organized crime?

Re: Has Italian LE ever had a Pistone type operation? [Re: LaLouisiane] #763377
02/13/14 12:48 PM
02/13/14 12:48 PM
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slumpy Offline
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Thanks for clearing that up Carmela. smile


edit: p.s. did some further research in the journal catalogues, pretty much came up with nothing. You would think there would be a lot more info since Canada/US/Italian law enforcement typically share information and techniques on the regular.

Last edited by slumpy; 02/13/14 12:50 PM.

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