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Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: Jimmy_Two_Times] #755562
12/26/13 10:38 AM
12/26/13 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jimmy_Two_Times
RIP Vito... so in the modern day and age where mob bosses die in jail or of unnatural causes, this brings up a question...

Does the board think that there will be another mob boss dying of natural causes while outside of prison? If so, which one?


Tocco,DiFronzo have the good odds.


From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: Dellacroce] #755605
12/26/13 03:02 PM
12/26/13 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dellacroce
Originally Posted By: domwoods74
I read a few of the rizzuto soldiers including Vito were made members of the bonnano family though . Will the bonnanos still not have a claim on these guys considering there made into that family ?? If there making the kind of money people r saying there making , surly the bonnanos would be after a slice of the pie ??

during the 1990s the Montreal crew had a total of about 20 made guys and they were all considered members of the bonnano family. according to Sal Vitale, the last time there was a tribute payment from montreal to new york was in 1999. I believe they stopped kicking up after George from Canada was murdered.


Even then you gotta believe that they only kicked in any tributes was because Rizzuto and Sciascia were close. Not sure what Massino was thinking by clipping Sciascia at the time but he lost the most powerful branch in his family because of it.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #755609
12/26/13 04:19 PM
12/26/13 04:19 PM
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It seems a common mistake many people make on these forums is equating the Rizzutos with Montreal organized crime. And this leads to them thinking the Rizzutos are the "most powerful Mafia family in North America," "more powerful than any NY family," etc.

Lee Lamothe said the Rizzutos can't be thought of as a "family" or "crew," in the sense those terms are used in the U.S. There is an inner circle of blood relatives - Rizzutos, Mannos, Ragusas, Rendas, etc. - some of who have been made into the American LCN, others not. Lamothe said there was originally a "core" of about 20 members (the original Bonanno crew in Montreal). Later on, this was close to the number (18-20) that Sal Vitale cited when he testified about the Bonanno crew there.

Beyond this, there is what Lamothe called the "Rizzuto Criminal Organization." But he said this included various individuals and groups, including 'Ndrangheta clans, American LCN members, generic Italian drug trafficking groups, etc. So already we're talking about something that extends beyond the Rizzutos themselves and getting into the larger organized crime scene in Montreal. And, stretching out further, this also included others - "white collar crooks, Natives, Chinese, bikers, etc."

Lamothe also said the Rizzuto organization had no pyramid structure like we see in American LCN families. Though they were the most influential, neither Nick or Vito Rizzuto were the leaders of organized crime in Montreal. But people on these forums have often made it out to be that way. And when it comes to comparisons, they're basically comparing Montreal OC to a single family in the U.S. A better comparison would be Montreal OC vs. New York OC. And New York dwarfs Montreal in any number of ways.


Last edited by IvyLeague; 12/26/13 04:38 PM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: SonnyBlackstein] #755617
12/26/13 04:53 PM
12/26/13 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
@Sonny_Black: I honestly can't see why my point is so hard to understand. I'll attempt to clarify.

ALL I'm saying is that Montreal is neither under Bonnano control and that there is ZERO evidence that it is under Gambino control.

I posted such to quell any rumours which may start from Strax's quote from the RD.

It is simply baseless speculation from NY posters who think the world revolves around them. And that if Montreal is not under Bonnano control they simply must be under another NY families command because the thought of independence is apparently inconceivable.

What is so terribly hard about that. There is no trolling but simple logic. I do not think Montreal is the centre of the universe and nor do I think it's under any NY family.

I hope this clarifies my point.


I understand your point very well, that was not the point. It was about your interpretation of my statement. Anyway, it isn't important.

I agree that the evidence available to us of the Gambinos controlling Montreal is little to none. But the poster who said this is not from New York and he has proven to have very valuable insight. He has made predictions that have turned out to be accurate before, so he deserves some credit. There is however solid evidence of the Gambinos maintaining a close relationship with the Sicilians in Canada. As of today maybe even more than the Bonannos. They may not control Montreal, but it is 99% fact and 1 % speculation that they do business with each other.

I've suggested some time ago on this forum that the Gambinos may have been much more active in Canada than previously thought.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: IvyLeague] #755620
12/26/13 05:02 PM
12/26/13 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
It seems a common mistake many people make on these forums is equating the Rizzutos with Montreal organized crime. And this leads to them thinking the Rizzutos are the "most powerful Mafia family in North America," "more powerful than any NY family," etc.

Lee Lamothe said the Rizzutos can't be thought of as a "family" or "crew," in the sense those terms are used in the U.S. There is an inner circle of blood relatives - Rizzutos, Mannos, Ragusas, Rendas, etc. - some of who have been made into the American LCN, others not. Lamothe said there was originally a "core" of about 20 members (the original Bonanno crew in Montreal). Later on, this was close to the number (18-20) that Sal Vitale cited when he testified about the Bonanno crew there.

Beyond this, there is what Lamothe called the "Rizzuto Criminal Organization." But he said this included various individuals and groups, including 'Ndrangheta clans, American LCN members, etc. So already we're talking about something that extends beyond the Rizzutos themselves and getting into the larger organized crime scene in Montreal. And, stretching out further, this also included others - "white collar crooks, Natives, Chinese, bikers, etc."

Lamothe also said the Rizzuto organization had no pyramid structure like we see in American LCN families. Though they were the most influential, neither Nick or Vito Rizzuto were the leaders of organized crime in Montreal. But people on these forums have often made it out to be that way. And when it comes to comparisons, they're basically comparing Montreal OC to a single family in the U.S. A better comparison would be Montreal OC vs. New York OC. And New York dwarfs Montreal in any number of ways.



A better comparison to the Montreal Mob structure would be the Chicago Outfit. It historically started off as the Cotroni family and eventually ended up being the Rizzuto family because of the top faction in charge. But to me they're built a lot like the Outfit in the sense that there are different factions and a lot of non-Italian influential associates.

For this reason, when one speaks of the Montreal Mob, it's really one family split into different crews and factions. In NYC it's obviously different since you have separate families. So in a sense, you're correct to say that OC in NYC is certainly bigger than that of Montreal when you add all the families in New York. But lets not forget that NYC is a North American giant in comparison to Montreal, and it seems quite logical that you're going to have more groups operating there.

As for the Montreal Mob being the most powerful family in North America, this is logical based on the fact that they operate in a country that is very lenient along with having very deep international connections. I also mentioned that the Siderno Group operating out of Toronto are probably the only other rival to Montreal in terms of such power due to the same luxuries.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: IvyLeague] #755621
12/26/13 05:08 PM
12/26/13 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Lamothe also said the Rizzuto organization had no pyramid structure like we see in American LCN families.


I believe Lamothe stated that the Montreal Mafia as a whole has no pyramid structure. The Montreal police however have compiled various charts of the Rizzuto organization as a pyramid structure.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #755671
12/26/13 11:54 PM
12/26/13 11:54 PM
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It's crime. It's organized crime. They don't run everything there but they eat a large piece of the pie.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #755741
12/27/13 11:31 AM
12/27/13 11:31 AM
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my initial reaction to NY controlling Montreal, would be to say Hell No. But if u really look at the situation, a powerful ny family might be needed to control and calm things down. i say this because, in order to avoid more blood shed, and police attention, which is bad for business, it would make sense to have a powerful and respected ie Gambino member to at least be a mediator initially b/t warring factions. bottom line, who ever is put in power there has to have the respect of the powerful clans in ontario. if not, i can't see this war ending anytime soon. but then again what the fuck do i know. lol

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #755748
12/27/13 11:56 AM
12/27/13 11:56 AM
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there is blog out there see link below, which states Vito rizzuto was at a party that nite before being rushed to hospital. can anyone confirm this?
http://gangstersout.blogspot.ca/

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #755760
12/27/13 01:14 PM
12/27/13 01:14 PM
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if vito was so powerfull why didn't he avenge his best friends murder the George from cananda guy. big deal he stop sending down his 20k at xmis time. you cant even compare montreal to nyc. so from 2000 till he got locked up in 2004 he was the boss of montreal. his whole family got wiped out the minute he went to jail how about that legacy. we know he got made into the bonanno by carmine galante. people giving this guy way to much credit. if montreal had the death penalty like here in the usa there wouldn't be killings going on like that, there 600+made guys in tri boro. who know how many zips are around. was vito son nick a made man if so he was made by a bonanno rite? this post should piss a lot of you off sorry.

Last edited by pmac; 12/27/13 01:15 PM.
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: trophydave] #755775
12/27/13 01:51 PM
12/27/13 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: trophydave
there is blog out there see link below, which states Vito rizzuto was at a party that nite before being rushed to hospital. can anyone confirm this?
http://gangstersout.blogspot.ca/


Yes, this is stated in one of the articles about his death.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: Sonny_Black] #755776
12/27/13 02:10 PM
12/27/13 02:10 PM
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hi sonny_black. im interested on ur thoughts on the toronto clans. in particular which clans may have supported the elimination of rizzutos. do u think all 7? clans were in on it?

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #755994
12/28/13 04:03 PM
12/28/13 04:03 PM
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When Vito was released from supermax in colorodo ,his canadian stop was Toronto,not montreal,he had many allies and enemies there ,media reports reps from N.Y where in Toronto at that time,and he put his revenge in motion right away,Woodbridge was a regular stop for vito ,many mob guys in that area,i mean families ,he was there for a week or so before going to montreal,bought a armoured suv and was of the radar for a bit,no way n.y is running montreal.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: trophydave] #756018
12/28/13 06:00 PM
12/28/13 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: trophydave
hi sonny_black. im interested on ur thoughts on the toronto clans. in particular which clans may have supported the elimination of rizzutos. do u think all 7? clans were in on it?


It seems the locale of Vincenzo DeMaria was involved, and if I had to guess I'd say the sons of Paolo Violi (Luppinos) as well.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: pmac] #756025
12/28/13 06:16 PM
12/28/13 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: pmac
if vito was so powerfull why didn't he avenge his best friends murder the George from cananda guy. big deal he stop sending down his 20k at xmis time. you cant even compare montreal to nyc. so from 2000 till he got locked up in 2004 he was the boss of montreal. his whole family got wiped out the minute he went to jail how about that legacy. we know he got made into the bonanno by carmine galante. people giving this guy way to much credit. if montreal had the death penalty like here in the usa there wouldn't be killings going on like that, there 600+made guys in tri boro. who know how many zips are around. was vito son nick a made man if so he was made by a bonanno rite? this post should piss a lot of you off sorry.


So because he didn't avenge one murder, does that negate those who he's supposedly has avenged since getting out of prison? I don't think so. And I've never heard of him being made by Carmine Galante, if anything his father would be the one who brought him into the criminal enterprise, either that or he would've got his official "button", again in the Americanized sense, by Controni...It isn't made clear when he was exactly "made" in that sense of the word, but he'd been involved in Montreal Organized Crime since his early 20's along with Paolo Renda. So as far as being made by Carmine Galante, I don't know about that.

Last edited by SinatraClub; 12/28/13 06:21 PM.
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #756029
12/28/13 06:28 PM
12/28/13 06:28 PM
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Was Vic cotroni and paolo violi not made guys in the bonnano family , if Vic cotroni made him , which I'm not sure he was authorised to do he would surely be a made member of the bonnanos , which is wot the FBI state he is . A member of the bonnano family

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #756030
12/28/13 06:31 PM
12/28/13 06:31 PM
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Paolo Violi came over from the Buffalo family.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #756032
12/28/13 06:40 PM
12/28/13 06:40 PM
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Yeah he did , but he was made into the bonnano family , this is the thing I don't get with the Montreal mob and the bonnano connection , most of the rizzuto mob was made into the bonnanos , how can they just now say were on our own , were nothing to do with u anymore unless the bonnanos were still profiting from the Montreal mob ??

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #756037
12/28/13 07:14 PM
12/28/13 07:14 PM
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It seems as though after George was killed, all bets were off on the one big happy family approuch. The Bonnanos had their own problems and it wasn't like they could just send someone up there every time they wanted to talk about something with post 9/11 immigration and border control, etc..

Plus, Vito did his time and pretty much kept his mouth shut and the Bonnanos probably said "enough"


"In onore della Famiglia la Famiglia e' aperta"
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: Sonny_Black] #756046
12/28/13 08:10 PM
12/28/13 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: trophydave
hi sonny_black. im interested on ur thoughts on the toronto clans. in particular which clans may have supported the elimination of rizzutos. do u think all 7? clans were in on it?


It seems the locale of Vincenzo DeMaria was involved, and if I had to guess I'd say the sons of Paolo Violi (Luppinos) as well.


Yea I heard the rumors of the DeMaria clan being involved against the Rizzuto faction. Vito's Calabrian allies in Toronto are the Commisso clan which I believe is tied via marriage.

Overall I think it was the combination of the older Cotroni crew in Montreal headed by Joe Di Maulo, the Violis/Luppinos from Hamilton, and the DeMaria clan from Toronto. I'm also skeptical of Montagna's involvement in the onslaught. If anything I would imagine he got killed because he was probably working with the Rizzuto family, not against them. After all, why would he try to take out a key figure such as Desjardins who happens to be the brother in law of the probable architect of this whole onslaught? Makes no sense. Is there any actual evidence that they were working together and there was a fallout or is all of this speculation?

Last edited by Sharpshooter0009; 12/28/13 08:12 PM.
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: Sharpshooter0009] #756053
12/28/13 08:53 PM
12/28/13 08:53 PM
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makes sense. looks like the demaria clan and rizzuto's have been at odds since the mid nineties. from reports (might have been Humphreys or Edwards article)on rizzuto's initial expansion attempt into Ontario, before he was indited, there was A HIT LIST THAT WASN'T finished which included a Toronto business man, and individuals related paolo violi. looks like the demaria clan has been the biggest barrier against the rizzutos expanding their influence into ontario for a while.

not much known about mr. demaria. but from all reports, looks like he might be the real power in ontario (or was)

ill try to find that article. Toronto sun i believe from last year.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: pmac] #756059
12/28/13 10:30 PM
12/28/13 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: pmac
if vito was so powerfull why didn't he avenge his best friends murder the George from cananda guy. big deal he stop sending down his 20k at xmis time. you cant even compare montreal to nyc. so from 2000 till he got locked up in 2004 he was the boss of montreal. his whole family got wiped out the minute he went to jail how about that legacy. we know he got made into the bonanno by carmine galante. people giving this guy way to much credit. if montreal had the death penalty like here in the usa there wouldn't be killings going on like that, there 600+made guys in tri boro. who know how many zips are around. was vito son nick a made man if so he was made by a bonanno rite? this post should piss a lot of you off sorry.


Sorry pmac buddy, but some real head scratching comments from you here. Why didn't he avenge a Bonnanno sanctioned hit in NYC? He no doubt hated that it happened but orders are orders and it appears that Vito was an old school stand up guy who abided the code, see 10 years in Supermax with his mouth shut. The hit didn't happen on his turf. I think it would have been a different story in Montreal. He would not have stood for that. The Bonnanos did pay a price for that decision as you could no longer say that Montreal fell under them after that.

And 600+ made guys in NYC/NJ??? C'mon buddy, what you smokin' mon?,

I think the Bonnanos or any of the 5 families would be envious of the Rizzutos international connections. When is the last time a NY family ordered a successful hit in another country?

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: Sharpshooter0009] #756062
12/28/13 10:44 PM
12/28/13 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sharpshooter0009
Originally Posted By: Dellacroce
Originally Posted By: domwoods74
I read a few of the rizzuto soldiers including Vito were made members of the bonnano family though . Will the bonnanos still not have a claim on these guys considering there made into that family ?? If there making the kind of money people r saying there making , surly the bonnanos would be after a slice of the pie ??

during the 1990s the Montreal crew had a total of about 20 made guys and they were all considered members of the bonnano family. according to Sal Vitale, the last time there was a tribute payment from montreal to new york was in 1999. I believe they stopped kicking up after George from Canada was murdered.


Even then you gotta believe that they only kicked in any tributes was because Rizzuto and Sciascia were close. Not sure what Massino was thinking by clipping Sciascia at the time but he lost the most powerful branch in his family because of it.



Joey "The Whale" Massino was doing his best impression of Nicky "Shoe Lifts" Scarfo when he had George whacked.George didn't trust or like Anthony "T.G." Graziano for a variety of reasons,including his supposed propensity to go on coke binges with high-priced call girls.George let his feelings be known to many,including Joey The Whale.Graziano was a Massino favorite.Massino interpreted George's complaints as questioning his judgement and leadership abilities,much like Salvie Testa's legitimate complaints about Chuckie Merlino's drinking were viewed by Nicky Scarfo.Massino even said exactly the same thing about George----"he's getting too big for his britches"---that Scarfo said about Salvie when giving the order whack him to incredulous underlings.


"A mook---what's a mook ?" Johnny Boy Civello
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #756064
12/28/13 10:56 PM
12/28/13 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: domwoods74
Was Vic cotroni and paolo violi not made guys in the bonnano family , if Vic cotroni made him , which I'm not sure he was authorised to do he would surely be a made member of the bonnanos , which is wot the FBI state he is . A member of the bonnano family


The FBI states him as a Soldier in the Bonanno Family, but we all know he has a lot more pull than the average Bonanno soldier. Who knows how they simply said "we're not Bonanno thumb anymore" but that's basically what happened. They have more international connections throughout Sicily and Venezuela (had?) than the Bonanno's themselves, so they simply grew to be more powerful, I think. I don't know for sure but that's the way it's commonly explained.


And while the FBI states him as a mere Soldier, Montreal authorities called him the head of his own organization. It's a confusing situation either way. Plus I hear now lately, from the other forums, that the Gambino's are more aligned with Montreal nowadays than the Bonanno's are. I don't know how true it is, but it would make sense with the authority of the Gambino's being Sicilian now.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #756065
12/28/13 11:01 PM
12/28/13 11:01 PM
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My above posting was just putting in my "2 cents" on a few prior postings about the murder of Gerlando "George From Canada" Sciascia.If one takes a closer look at just the Sciascia murder itself,it's pretty clear that the Rizzuto Family was not just a crew within the Bonanno Family.Joey The Whale wanted the murder to look like some sort of drug dispute and also ordered the men to attend George's wake/funeral,in order to give the impression that George was in good standing and his murder was unsanctioned.Had the guys from Montreal just been members of a Bonanno crew,he wouldn't have gone to those lengths.It was all in vain,as Vito Rizzuto saw through the fat man's subterfuge and relations between the two became strained.

R.I.P. Vito.


"A mook---what's a mook ?" Johnny Boy Civello
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: Sharpshooter0009] #756137
12/29/13 02:21 PM
12/29/13 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sharpshooter0009
I'm also skeptical of Montagna's involvement in the onslaught. If anything I would imagine he got killed because he was probably working with the Rizzuto family, not against them. After all, why would he try to take out a key figure such as Desjardins who happens to be the brother in law of the probable architect of this whole onslaught?


There is as much evidence of Montagna and Desjardins working together as there is of their involvement in the plot to take over in Montreal. I believe that Montagna acted as an ambassador for the rival factions and that he played a key role in the plot to overtrow Nick Rizzuto. When Nick Rizzuto learned that Montagna would be deported to Montreal he send back word saying that Montagna was a light-weight flunky and that he wouldn't take orders from him. The question then arises, if Nick Rizzuto was a boss of his own, why would he say such a thing? It implies that he would've been prepared to take orders from someone from New York who he did held in high regard. And that also implies that the Rizzutos still answered to New York. In any case, Rizzuto's remark on Montagna seems to have set in motion the plot to depose him. I believe that if Montagna hadn't set foot in Montreal the murder of Nick Rizzuto wouldn't have happened. I think that Montagna was the missing link between Montreal, New York and Toronto and that he brought the rival factions together to initate the take-over.

Afterwards, Montagna probably didn't want to share power and regarded Desjardins as an obstacle and tried to take him out. He failed and Desjardins was left with little choice other than taking Montagna out before he would be hit again. Di Maulo likely supported Desjardins and this, as well as him betraying the Rizzuto family, came to haunt him last year. I think things may have looked entirely different had Montagna not jumped through a window and ended up on the bank of the river.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #756139
12/29/13 03:02 PM
12/29/13 03:02 PM
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pmac Offline
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off point but you think 600 made guys is crazy in the triboro. theres 200 in the gambinos 200 in the Genovese theres 3 other family like 40 decavs in nj the 20 or so guys in buffalo. I don't get the whole 600 is crazy.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: domwoods74] #756140
12/29/13 03:09 PM
12/29/13 03:09 PM
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pmac Offline
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now to really piss people off the guys legacy is he son got whacked his dad too his sisters husband. some more of his cousins. he was a huge drug pusher, but the [BadWord] were bigger they split the 400 kilo's of herion with the cherry hill gambinos. guy wasnt even a captain in the lcn. he ran montreal for a couple years. don't remember any boss having his family wiped out like that. he was a good diplomat between the bikers up there. if they had the murder in the aid of ract. and the death pen there would be no murders up there like they do here always playing the death penalty card. eric holder hasn't deciced yet that's why so many guys flip.

Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: pmac] #756141
12/29/13 03:25 PM
12/29/13 03:25 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Originally Posted By: pmac
off point but you think 600 made guys is crazy in the triboro. theres 200 in the gambinos 200 in the Genovese theres 3 other family like 40 decavs in nj the 20 or so guys in buffalo. I don't get the whole 600 is crazy.


There are about 750 made members in New York and a few thousand associates. In Montreal you have a couple dozen made members and about 500 associates.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Vito rizzuto dead [Re: Sonny_Black] #756174
12/29/13 06:52 PM
12/29/13 06:52 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: pmac
off point but you think 600 made guys is crazy in the triboro. theres 200 in the gambinos 200 in the Genovese theres 3 other family like 40 decavs in nj the 20 or so guys in buffalo. I don't get the whole 600 is crazy.


There are about 750 made members in New York and a few thousand associates. In Montreal you have a couple dozen made members and about 500 associates.


If we're talking the Tri-State area, you could also add the DeCavalcantes, Philadelphia's north Jersey crew, and maybe some Patriarca members. So it would be upwards of 800 members.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 12/29/13 06:52 PM.

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