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Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749671
11/21/13 10:22 PM
11/21/13 10:22 PM
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Lou i thought the dictabelt acoustics were proven to be wrong...that the motorcycle actually wasn't where it needed to be. Something like that. Am i remembering that incorrectly?

Re: JFK Killer [Re: Giancarlo] #749676
11/21/13 11:14 PM
11/21/13 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
Lou i thought the dictabelt acoustics were proven to be wrong...that the motorcycle actually wasn't where it needed to be. Something like that. Am i remembering that incorrectly?
Here's a pretty good analysis of the Dictabelt controversy
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/acoustic.htm

Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749677
11/21/13 11:29 PM
11/21/13 11:29 PM
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Cool...thanks Lou.

I tell you this stuff gets confusing trying to seperate the true facts from stuff that has been repeated so often people think it is a fact when it really isn't.

Every time one theory gets shot down these guys come up with another one. It's a real cottage industry with some of these so called assassination experts.

Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749727
11/22/13 11:59 AM
11/22/13 11:59 AM
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ALL HAIL CARLOS!!!!


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: JFK Killer [Re: Giancarlo] #749733
11/22/13 12:40 PM
11/22/13 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
Cool...thanks Lou.

I tell you this stuff gets confusing trying to seperate the true facts from stuff that has been repeated so often people think it is a fact when it really isn't.

Every time one theory gets shot down these guys come up with another one. It's a real cottage industry with some of these so called assassination experts.
It can be really overwhelming trying to sort out the huge volume of info about the assassination. In the Information Age there is more than enough info available for an objective person to decide the most credible scenario. The key for me has been EVIDENCE ,but this is where it gets crazy. For example,we have physical EVIDENCE in the form of Oswald's palm print on the rifle. The Conspiracy Theorists have countered that with SPECULATION that the print was planted,the most common scenario being at the funeral home where presumably the print was transferred from Oswald's cold dead hand,onto the rifle by "someone". This scenario was given credibility by the funeral director Paul Groody,who although didn't actually see it,believes that it happened when the "someone"went unaccompanied into the room where Oswald's corpse was.

Fair enough,maybe there could be something to it,right?
Well, when I read other statements made by Groody,I found an interesting tidbit. When Oswald's body was exhumed,Groody actually stated that in his opinion,the casket and vault had been tampered with and that the head was detached from the body,and most shocking of all,it wasn't even Oswald's head.
So in my opinion,anything that Groody said is extremely suspect,so in this case,as far as the print on the rifle,EVIDENCE-1,SPECULATION-0.

You can judge for yourself by Googling Oswald's head,or Paul Groody,or whatever. Look at both sides and make the call.

The bottom line is that based on EVIDENCE,I believe that LHO was the only shooter,and acted alone. Therefore I don't waste any time looking at information involving the Mafia,Cia,Castro,or anyone else.



Last edited by Lou_Para; 11/22/13 12:43 PM.
Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749734
11/22/13 12:46 PM
11/22/13 12:46 PM
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Anytown, USA
goombah Offline
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Originally Posted By: fergie
Hi all, just watched an interesting documentary on British TV alleging a secret service agent, George Hickey, in the car behind JFK accidentely shot him as he reached for his automatic rifle to return fire at Oswald - it explains the smell of gunpowder at ground level which many witnesses reported and also gives a plausible reason for the secret service to begin an initial cover up which just snowballed....there were also clear photos shown of Hickey with the weapon in his hand at the time-anybody else heard this theory?


I saw this documentary as well. It is based on a newer book called "JFK: The Smoking Gun." It seems plausible, but I read a couple of sites that said that this conspiracy theory was debunked many years ago.

As Turnbull said, the Warren Commission didn't answer the question of JFK's murder definitively. Thus it opened up the door to various conspiracy theories. Thank goodness for Abraham Zupruder's film, which was hidden from the public for a few years after the assassination.

All of the theories have holes in them. I always felt that it was the CIA was behind Kennedy's execution. Kennedy was planning to shut down the CIA and had attempted to kill Cuba's Fidel Castro in the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion. The CIA and the U.S. military wanted Kennedy to fight in Vietnam and Cuba, but the President did not want to commit large scale U.S. troops. Although he would have had the nation's support because of the nuclear thread, JFK did not even invade Cuba during the Missile Crisis in Oct. 1962.

For me, the doubt will always remain for one reason unless documentation is released proving otherwise. Why did Kennedy's brain disappear? It would have conclusively demonstrated the trajectory of the fatal shot and, in my opinion, probably disproved the claim that Oswald was the lone gunman. While I do believe that Oswald fired the shot that went into Kennedy's throat and into Connally, but I think it was another shooter that fired the shot that mortally wounded JFK.

Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749741
11/22/13 01:13 PM
11/22/13 01:13 PM
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Just watched that "JFK: The Smoking Gun" the other day. I heard about the theory about Hickey accidently shooting JFK with his AR15 before but it was still an interesting show even though i didn't agree with it.

There are other people who say the driver of JFK's limo turned around and shot him with a handgun. I swear everyone in Dealy Plaza has been accused by someone of being in on the plot.

A popular conspiracy theory these days seems to be that LBJ had JFK killed so that he could become president....which i think is crazy but some people do believe it.

But personally i still think it was just that commie lover Oswald by himself. But who knows.

Last edited by Giancarlo; 11/22/13 03:26 PM.
Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749825
11/22/13 07:48 PM
11/22/13 07:48 PM
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Well...I reckon LHO was ordered to meet his handler at the theatre after the assasination and the plan was for Officer Tippett to kill him before he reached there and it'd all be neat and tidy. Tippett, by all eye witness testimonies, was extremely anxious looking and acting very strangely before hand-barging into a music shop, asking to use the phone then leaving very quickly after getting no answer-he was well off his normal beat as well. LHO shot him, possibly in self defence, and, in panic, carried on with the plan to meet his handler who obv had no intention of being there. Only government depts could set that up-they then couldn't get to LHO when the local PD caught him(which wasn't in the plan) and used their mafia contacts to kill him within the PD-they gave Ruby the "offer he couldn't refuse" who said as much in testimony just before he died. None of that is far fetched....

Who shot JFK? LHO probably fired at least one shot, otherwise he'd have no real reason to panic, shoot a cop and still go to meet someone in the theatre(he wasn't there to watch a movie!) but I reckon government depts always had the final kill shots planned and LHO was, to some extent, the Patsy.

Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749857
11/22/13 09:26 PM
11/22/13 09:26 PM
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New York
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After seeing the re-enactment by the sniper/ballistics expert who tried to get off the 3 shots in the amount of time that Oswald did, and with the same accuracy, he concluded that it was virtually impossible, and it was certainly convincing.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: JFK Killer [Re: Sicilian Babe] #749889
11/22/13 11:35 PM
11/22/13 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
After seeing the re-enactment by the sniper/ballistics expert who tried to get off the 3 shots in the amount of time that Oswald did, and with the same accuracy, he concluded that it was virtually impossible, and it was certainly convincing.
Not sure which re-enactment you are referring to,but there have been several attempts to re-create Oswald's feat. An FBI agent,a television special on Discovery,a few independent investigators,and others have all shown that not only was it possible,but it was actually probable.The discrepancy seems to lie in an initial estimate of the alloted time based on the frame rate of the Zapruder film. The error is in assuming the timing of the missed shot. No one knows if Oswald missed with the first shot,or the third shot.What is undisputed,based on the video,is that the two shots which we see strike Kennedy could easily have been fired in the time shown on the Zapruder film. The other shot is irrelevant because Oswald could have missed with his first shot or could have fired a third shot after the head shot,and missed with that one.
Since no one knows when the third bullet was fired,there is no way to speculate on the timing of anything other than the two undisputed shots that we see.

Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749890
11/22/13 11:44 PM
11/22/13 11:44 PM
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Posts: 17,276
New York
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I watched one re-enactment the other night, and I honestly can't remember what channel it was on, but that was the one that disputed that Oswald could not have done it.

I watched another special tonight on the History Channel, and they showed that, as you said, it could be done in the time allotted. Actually, the shooter in the re-enactment did it even less time than Oswald.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: JFK Killer [Re: goombah] #749891
11/22/13 11:51 PM
11/22/13 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: goombah
Originally Posted By: fergie
Hi all, just watched an interesting documentary on British TV alleging a secret service agent, George Hickey, in the car behind JFK accidentely shot him as he reached for his automatic rifle to return fire at Oswald - it explains the smell of gunpowder at ground level which many witnesses reported and also gives a plausible reason for the secret service to begin an initial cover up which just snowballed....there were also clear photos shown of Hickey with the weapon in his hand at the time-anybody else heard this theory?


I saw this documentary as well. It is based on a newer book called "JFK: The Smoking Gun." It seems plausible, but I read a couple of sites that said that this conspiracy theory was debunked many years ago.

As Turnbull said, the Warren Commission didn't answer the question of JFK's murder definitively. Thus it opened up the door to various conspiracy theories. Thank goodness for Abraham Zupruder's film, which was hidden from the public for a few years after the assassination.

All of the theories have holes in them. I always felt that it was the CIA was behind Kennedy's execution. Kennedy was planning to shut down the CIA and had attempted to kill Cuba's Fidel Castro in the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion. The CIA and the U.S. military wanted Kennedy to fight in Vietnam and Cuba, but the President did not want to commit large scale U.S. troops. Although he would have had the nation's support because of the nuclear thread, JFK did not even invade Cuba during the Missile Crisis in Oct. 1962.

For me, the doubt will always remain for one reason unless documentation is released proving otherwise. Why did Kennedy's brain disappear? It would have conclusively demonstrated the trajectory of the fatal shot and, in my opinion, probably disproved the claim that Oswald was the lone gunman. While I do believe that Oswald fired the shot that went into Kennedy's throat and into Connally, but I think it was another shooter that fired the shot that mortally wounded JFK.
The CIA had no reason to publicly murder Kennedy.JFK actually passed the largest CIA budget in the history of the United States,and he did it over two years after he supposedly said he would "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces",a statement that has never been proven to have even been made.

As far as Vietnam,Kennedy absolutely wanted to stay and fight,and more importantly,to win. Kennedy's opinion was that the Premier of South Vietnam didn't have the stuff to pull it off on his own,and even considered several scenarios for deposing him in favor of a more aggressive figure.In addition,when JFK announced plans to pull a thousand advisers out of Vietnam,he specifically stated that they were not to be taken out of areas that were involved in active combat. In fact the first two hundred and fifty that he pulled were in accordance with this directive.If you look at the troop deployment at the time of JFK's death,the pulling out of Nam myth is easily debunked.

Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749897
11/23/13 12:51 AM
11/23/13 12:51 AM
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Louisiana
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Cajunwhodat Offline
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Hello folks I'm new here and hope its ok to comment.
Being a New Orleanian and friend to several of Carlos' (Calogero) I just think its unfortunate that no one knows the truth but yet our city and my friends family have marks on them because of speculation and a city's unfortunate encounter with a bisexual guy that was very confused with his sexuality and how the military treated him about it.The guy had some serious social dis functions and it was readily expressed directly after the incident in many of the "private " clubs around the city. Geaux Saints


Mafia = Honor Among Thieves often said by old school wise guys in the south.........."Always wear your H.A.T. can't live wid out it"

Geaux Saints
Re: JFK Killer [Re: Cajunwhodat] #749899
11/23/13 01:24 AM
11/23/13 01:24 AM
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Lou_Para Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cajunwhodat
Hello folks I'm new here and hope its ok to comment.
Being a New Orleanian and friend to several of Carlos' (Calogero) I just think its unfortunate that no one knows the truth but yet our city and my friends family have marks on them because of speculation and a city's unfortunate encounter with a bisexual guy that was very confused with his sexuality and how the military treated him about it.The guy had some serious social dis functions and it was readily expressed directly after the incident in many of the "private " clubs around the city. Geaux Saints
Welcome to the boards Cajun. I agree that because of unfounded speculation and complete disregard for the actual, proven,physical evidence,a lot of people will forever be connected to a "conspiracy" that exists only in the heads of nitwits. Unsubstantiated mumblings by Marcello don't connect him to the JFK shooting,and Garrison's alcoholic ramblings resulted only in having Clay Shaw's prosecution laughed out of court in record time. And by the way,Geaux Steelers(sorry,but I had to)

Re: JFK Killer [Re: Lou_Para] #749901
11/23/13 03:24 AM
11/23/13 03:24 AM
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Underground
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Originally Posted By: Lou_Para
Originally Posted By: Cajunwhodat
Hello folks I'm new here and hope its ok to comment.
Being a New Orleanian and friend to several of Carlos' (Calogero) I just think its unfortunate that no one knows the truth but yet our city and my friends family have marks on them because of speculation and a city's unfortunate encounter with a bisexual guy that was very confused with his sexuality and how the military treated him about it.The guy had some serious social dis functions and it was readily expressed directly after the incident in many of the "private " clubs around the city. Geaux Saints
Unsubstantiated mumblings by Marcello don't connect him to the JFK shooting,and Garrison's alcoholic ramblings resulted only in having Clay Shaw's prosecution laughed out of court in record time.


And dont forget Loran Hall,Trafficantes ex-cellmate.IN the late 70's or early 80's he told a reporter that the only two people still alive,that knew what happend,were him and Trafficante.Also Hall did say he was not in Dallas on November 22.He was in Dallas 6 or 7 times previously during 1963. He was there during the end of September and came back again in October. He had picked up a trailer full of rifles in California from Clint Wheat. He left the rifles with oil geologist Lester Logue in Dallas then proceded on to Miami.
According to Jerry Hemming,Hall met with Lee Harvey Oswald in Texas while en route to Florida prior to the John Kennedy assassination.There are also rumours that Hall was connected to the CIA.Also the testimony of Gerry Patrick Hemming is confirming some of these stuff.

Also Oswald and his family had lifelong connections with Marcello,including David Ferrie,Oswald's Uncle Dutz Murret, and Guy Banister,who was also working for Marcello.

During his arrest you can hear Oswald saying "Im just a patsy".After that Oswald was silenced by Ruby right?!Jack Ruby had connections to many Chicago mob figures.He visited Barney Baker and Irwin Weiner in the months before the assassination suggest that Giancana might have been also involved in the conspiracy as well.

Also Trafficante's confession of his involvement to Frank Ragano.There are many interviews with Frank's wife Nancy and son Chris,confirming the same stuff.

Santo Trafficante had connections to John Martino,who calimed that he knew about the plot before it happend.In 1975 he told Newsday reporter John Cummings about his involvement in the JFK murder, serving as a courier, delivering money, etc. He told a similar story to his business partner Fred Claasen that same year, as recounted in Tony Summer's book Conspiracy:

"The anti-Castro people put Oswald together. Oswald didn't know who he was working for--he was just ignorant of who was really putting him together. Oswald was to meet his contact at the Texas Theatre. They were to meet Oswald in the theatre, and get him out of the country, then eliminate him. Oswald made a mistake...There was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him."


Also the case of David Morales.

James Worrell told the Warren Commission that he heard four shots.He said that he was standing at the corner of Houston & Elm st directly in front of the TSDB at the time of the shooting.Also as he ran north on Houston St he claimed that he saw some other guy,not Oswald,run out the rear door of the TSBD building.

Dont know how much of these infos are true and im not saying that the mob did it because really theres no hard evidence,but please dont throw away the possibilty of mob involvement


Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant: "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the Rule of Honor

“Behind every great fortune, there is a crime!”

What's the diference between the Government and the Mafia?

-One of them is organized!
Re: JFK Killer [Re: Giancarlo] #749914
11/23/13 10:13 AM
11/23/13 10:13 AM
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The Villa Quatro
Irishman12 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
People like to say Oswald wasn't capable of doing the shooting but in 1956 Oswald scored 49 out 50 and 48 out of 50 at 200 yards and that was at rapid firing with a M1 Garand rifle. He was more then capable of doing the shooting in my opinion.

He scored lower in his final year in the Marines but at that point he didn't care and knew he was getting out of the service soon.

I believe the first shot was deflected by either a tree branch or maybe the traffic signal post or mast (whatever you call it), then the second shot was a straight line through JFK and hitting John Connally. Then the third shot was the money shot hitting JFK in the back of the head killing him. I believe all 3 shots were from above and behind and were fired from that window at the Texas School Book Depository.

Just my opinion on it....i could be wrong.


There's no way he could have done that shooting (or at least alone). The Zapruder film shows that the shooting only took 5.6 seconds (for all "3" shots). You try doing that with the recycling of that rifle that he had in 5.6 seconds. The FBI's sharpshooter's tried and couldn't match it. Not to mention the first shot would have been the best (since no one knew where he was) but with Kennedy the 3rd shot was the best. And finally, you really buy the magic bullet theory? That 1 bullet made 7 wounds on both Kennedy and Connally? No way!


Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749915
11/23/13 10:23 AM
11/23/13 10:23 AM
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Lou_Para Offline
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The reason that people continue to suggest Mob involvement in the JFK killing is that they are willing to accept a standard of proof that would be unacceptably low in any other situation.

"so and so knew someone" proves that so and so knew someone,and nothing more."This one told that one and it was confirmed by the other one",is not evidence.

How is it possible that a guy spills the beans on the crime of the century to a Newsday reporter,yet he is not arrested as an accessory,not questioned by any law enforcement agency,and in fact,is not even taken seriously?
The possibility that the guy is full of more sh*t than a Christmas turkey comes to mind.

Time after time,what we get is second and third party recollections made by people with an agenda,whether it be to plug their book,or to promote their TV appearance circuit,or just to get some attention.

Ruby was sent to silence Oswald? Then who was going to silence Ruby? Early on,Ruby made "mysterious" allusions to a plot. What is not publicized are the statements that Ruby made before he died,years later,in which he admits that he was acting on his own and just wanted to kill the guy who killed his idol,JFK. If he had any kind of real info,he could have testified,gotten protection, and spent the rest of his life in relative comfort instead of dying alone in a cell,(actually a hospital)ravaged by cancer.
Or if you believe that "The Mob" could have still gotten to Ruby,why would they let him live for years after killing LHO,thereby exposing themselves to the risk of him snitching at any time.
If Ruby had anything to reveal,he could have executed a detailed statement containing real facts and evidence to his lawyer,or a trusted friend, to be made public after his death.

Was there a possibility that the Mob killed JFK? Yes,provided that the only standard of acceptable proof is rumor,innuendo,and speculation.Once you bring EVIDENCE of any kind, whether it be physical,direct eyewitness testimony,incriminating documents,etc.into the equation,The possibility falls to near zero.

Last edited by Lou_Para; 11/23/13 10:25 AM.
Re: JFK Killer [Re: Lou_Para] #749921
11/23/13 10:58 AM
11/23/13 10:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 56,353
The Villa Quatro
Irishman12 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lou_Para
Was there a possibility that the Mob killed JFK? Yes,provided that the only standard of acceptable proof is rumor,innuendo,and speculation.Once you bring EVIDENCE of any kind, whether it be physical,direct eyewitness testimony,incriminating documents,etc.into the equation,The possibility falls to near zero.


Agreed. The mob didn't have the muscle to change the parade route, make a mess of the autopsy/investigation. Had to come from the government IMO. And again, as someone previously alluded to, his brain is missing. How when you're about to make it public to investigate does the President's brain just go missing? Not buying it at all!


Re: JFK Killer [Re: Irishman12] #749931
11/23/13 12:27 PM
11/23/13 12:27 PM
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Lou_Para Offline
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Originally Posted By: Irishman12
Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
People like to say Oswald wasn't capable of doing the shooting but in 1956 Oswald scored 49 out 50 and 48 out of 50 at 200 yards and that was at rapid firing with a M1 Garand rifle. He was more then capable of doing the shooting in my opinion.

He scored lower in his final year in the Marines but at that point he didn't care and knew he was getting out of the service soon.

I believe the first shot was deflected by either a tree branch or maybe the traffic signal post or mast (whatever you call it), then the second shot was a straight line through JFK and hitting John Connally. Then the third shot was the money shot hitting JFK in the back of the head killing him. I believe all 3 shots were from above and behind and were fired from that window at the Texas School Book Depository.

Just my opinion on it....i could be wrong.


There's no way he could have done that shooting (or at least alone). The Zapruder film shows that the shooting only took 5.6 seconds (for all "3" shots). You try doing that with the recycling of that rifle that he had in 5.6 seconds. The FBI's sharpshooter's tried and couldn't match it. Not to mention the first shot would have been the best (since no one knew where he was) but with Kennedy the 3rd shot was the best. And finally, you really buy the magic bullet theory? That 1 bullet made 7 wounds on both Kennedy and Connally? No way!
Where on the Zapruder film do we see the evidence of when a third bullet was fired? The two shots we can see are A)JFK with his hands at his throat,and B)the head shot. Was the third bullet fired before the "throat shot" or after the head shot. If we don't know when a third bullet was fired,how can we establish a time frame for all three?
In my opinion it is more logical that Oswald missed the first shot. He is presumably nervous, and knows he has a limited amount of time. His first shot goes too high,missing the car entirely.He overcompensates with the second shot,goes too low,and hits JFK in the base of his neck. The third shot is just right,and hits JFK in the back of the head.

Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749933
11/23/13 12:37 PM
11/23/13 12:37 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
Lou, thanks for your posts. They are factual as opposed to some above that are inane. Here's a few:

Bobby Kennedy took possession of the President's brain on behalf of the Kennedy family. It is in the National Archives.

There is no physical way for a vehicle to transit from Main St. to Stemmons Freeway without hopping over one or more concrete medians. The only way to avoid such is to turn onto Houston St. and follow Elm St. to the Stemmons Freeway access route.

The President's head wound is manifestly an exit wound. Those Board members who are combat veterans know an entrance wound and an exit wound when they see them.

From your posts, many of you seem to have cursory knowledge of the events that day or of the aftermath, and little or no familiarity with Dealey Plaza or Dallas geography. Try reading Posner's Case Closed or Bugliosi's Witness to History.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: JFK Killer [Re: olivant] #749938
11/23/13 12:54 PM
11/23/13 12:54 PM
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Lou_Para Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Lou, thanks for your posts. They are factual as opposed to some above that are inane. Here's a few:

Bobby Kennedy took possession of the President's brain on behalf of the Kennedy family. It is in the National Archives.

There is no physical way for a vehicle to transit from Main St. to Stemmons Freeway without hopping over one or more concrete medians. The only way to avoid such is to turn onto Houston St. and follow Elm St. to the Stemmons Freeway access route.

The President's head wound is manifestly an exit wound. Those Board members who are combat veterans know an entrance wound and an exit wound when they see them.

From your posts, many of you seem to have cursory knowledge of the events that day or of the aftermath, and little or no familiarity with Dealey Plaza or Dallas geography. Try reading Posner's Case Closed or Bugliosi's Witness to History.
Thanks,Olivant. May I also suggest what I believe to be the definitive work on the JFK case,Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi. This is a massive (1600 page)read,but I don't believe I've ever seen a more thoroughly researched,unbiased,and agenda free source. For those who haven't read it,pick it up on the cheap at Half-Price or other discount book joint,read it at your leisure and make your own call.

Re: JFK Killer [Re: Lou_Para] #749944
11/23/13 01:34 PM
11/23/13 01:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,514
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,514
Texas
[/quote] Thanks,Olivant. May I also suggest what I believe to be the definitive work on the JFK case,Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi. This is a massive (1600 page)read,but I don't believe I've ever seen a more thoroughly researched,unbiased,and agenda free source. For those who haven't read it,pick it up on the cheap at Half-Price or other discount book joint,read it at your leisure and make your own call. [/quote]

Yes, I mistitled Bugliosi's work in my post. I plan to reread it over the holiday.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: JFK Killer [Re: Toodoped] #749972
11/23/13 04:15 PM
11/23/13 04:15 PM
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Posts: 486
LittleMan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Toodoped

And dont forget Loran Hall,Trafficantes ex-cellmate.IN the late 70's or early 80's he told a reporter that the only two people still alive,that knew what happend,were him and Trafficante.Also Hall did say he was not in Dallas on November 22.He was in Dallas 6 or 7 times previously during 1963. He was there during the end of September and came back again in October. He had picked up a trailer full of rifles in California from Clint Wheat. He left the rifles with oil geologist Lester Logue in Dallas then proceded on to Miami.
According to Jerry Hemming,Hall met with Lee Harvey Oswald in Texas while en route to Florida prior to the John Kennedy assassination.There are also rumours that Hall was connected to the CIA.Also the testimony of Gerry Patrick Hemming is confirming some of these stuff.

Also Oswald and his family had lifelong connections with Marcello,including David Ferrie,Oswald's Uncle Dutz Murret, and Guy Banister,who was also working for Marcello.

During his arrest you can hear Oswald saying "Im just a patsy".After that Oswald was silenced by Ruby right?!Jack Ruby had connections to many Chicago mob figures.He visited Barney Baker and Irwin Weiner in the months before the assassination suggest that Giancana might have been also involved in the conspiracy as well.

Also Trafficante's confession of his involvement to Frank Ragano.There are many interviews with Frank's wife Nancy and son Chris,confirming the same stuff.

Santo Trafficante had connections to John Martino,who calimed that he knew about the plot before it happend.In 1975 he told Newsday reporter John Cummings about his involvement in the JFK murder, serving as a courier, delivering money, etc. He told a similar story to his business partner Fred Claasen that same year, as recounted in Tony Summer's book Conspiracy:

"The anti-Castro people put Oswald together. Oswald didn't know who he was working for--he was just ignorant of who was really putting him together. Oswald was to meet his contact at the Texas Theatre. They were to meet Oswald in the theatre, and get him out of the country, then eliminate him. Oswald made a mistake...There was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him."


Also the case of David Morales.

James Worrell told the Warren Commission that he heard four shots.He said that he was standing at the corner of Houston & Elm st directly in front of the TSDB at the time of the shooting.Also as he ran north on Houston St he claimed that he saw some other guy,not Oswald,run out the rear door of the TSBD building.

Dont know how much of these infos are true and im not saying that the mob did it because really theres no hard evidence,but please dont throw away the possibilty of mob involvement


I agree.

I'm actually very surprised that respected board members are skeptical of mob involvement.


You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749978
11/23/13 04:30 PM
11/23/13 04:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 17
Louisiana
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Cajunwhodat Offline
Wiseguy
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Louisiana
Coming from a guy who just shot 6 ducks this morning and has a deer roast in the crock pot and was also in the military the frontal shot that blew his brains on the trunk was the fatal one and dat didn't come from the TSBD.So obviously there was another shooter which has everyone pointing in as many directions as the "mystery bullet" and I promise no answers are coming out of NOLA.I am personal friends with some of the descendants of Carlos and wish it would just go away.I am quite sure the Hoffa,Harrelson and Trafficante family feel the same way.Hell I cleaned Carlos ducks haha birthday buddy's great lil ole fella and his family are all great!!!!!


Mafia = Honor Among Thieves often said by old school wise guys in the south.........."Always wear your H.A.T. can't live wid out it"

Geaux Saints
Re: JFK Killer [Re: LittleMan] #749980
11/23/13 05:03 PM
11/23/13 05:03 PM
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Posts: 2,686
Underground
Toodoped Offline
Murder Ink
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Back than the Warren Commission didnt know about the CIA-Mafia plots to kill Castro and maybe that is one of the reasons that the investigation didnt go well.The Warren Commission had full power to conduct its own independent investigation,but didnt do shit.My opinion is that the Warren Commission did not use its own investigators,it was a pure cover-up.

In 1975 Republican Senator Richard Schweiker,member of the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence said that they knew about Oswald having intelligence connections.In 1978,during a recess of the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations,CIA director Richard Helms said that no one would ever know who or what Lee Harvey Oswald represented.


Oswald acted alone and Ruby retaliated because Oswald killed his idol?!?!?Common pls...


Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant: "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the Rule of Honor

“Behind every great fortune, there is a crime!”

What's the diference between the Government and the Mafia?

-One of them is organized!
Re: JFK Killer [Re: Toodoped] #749984
11/23/13 05:24 PM
11/23/13 05:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Toodoped

Oswald acted alone and Ruby retaliated because Oswald killed his idol?!?!?Common pls...


I always figured Ruby was ordered by his mob connections (Marcello family) to whack Oswald. Is there another theory on why Ruby killed Oswald that makes sense?


You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
Re: JFK Killer [Re: LittleMan] #749991
11/23/13 05:41 PM
11/23/13 05:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,686
Underground
Toodoped Offline
Murder Ink
Toodoped  Offline
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Originally Posted By: LittleMan
Originally Posted By: Toodoped

Oswald acted alone and Ruby retaliated because Oswald killed his idol?!?!?Common pls...


I always figured Ruby was ordered by his mob connections (Marcello family) to whack Oswald. Is there another theory on why Ruby killed Oswald that makes sense?


I gotta admit that Ruby is one of the biggest reasons for linking O.C. with the assasination.The other theory is what i stated above,wich i think its crazy,that Ruby thought was doing the American people a great deed by killing Oswald.


Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant: "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the Rule of Honor

“Behind every great fortune, there is a crime!”

What's the diference between the Government and the Mafia?

-One of them is organized!
Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749996
11/23/13 06:39 PM
11/23/13 06:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 17
Louisiana
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Cajunwhodat Offline
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
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Louisiana
Ruby was getting strippers from traffypoo once they were on the powder hot lil ones from Tampa and West palm.They were pretty tight them 2.


Mafia = Honor Among Thieves often said by old school wise guys in the south.........."Always wear your H.A.T. can't live wid out it"

Geaux Saints
Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749997
11/23/13 06:43 PM
11/23/13 06:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 17
Louisiana
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Cajunwhodat Offline
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
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Posts: 17
Louisiana
Speaking of strip clubs my close brothas the bass brothers are opening new club in jersey in one week.Its called BabesNOLA 1137 bored town rd Burlington bringing some hot ladies from. Marcello country better known as the matranga fam


Mafia = Honor Among Thieves often said by old school wise guys in the south.........."Always wear your H.A.T. can't live wid out it"

Geaux Saints
Re: JFK Killer [Re: fergie] #749998
11/23/13 06:48 PM
11/23/13 06:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 17
Louisiana
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Cajunwhodat Offline
Wiseguy
Cajunwhodat  Offline
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Wiseguy
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 17
Louisiana
Bordentown road


Mafia = Honor Among Thieves often said by old school wise guys in the south.........."Always wear your H.A.T. can't live wid out it"

Geaux Saints
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