The Mafia is not the same as it once was, most younger guys are only into selling dope, they don't have political connections like they used to have. So would u say that there just simply gang this day in age nothing more?

Even thougg they are not as powerful as they used to be, i think the LCN is too organized and too entrenched in the economy and other parts of society to being compared to a street gang. But off course if you take all the labels away, they have always been and still are just a bunch of sociopaths who don't give a shit about anyone else and would happily break your legs if they could make a buck off it and get away with it. Oh and btw they have been selling dope for a LONG time, so that isn't new.

No - not in Sicily at least

Simply no.

Guilani put it some thing like this,"that no other criminal organization in history has been able to successfully entrench themselves into the legitimate world and have influence in so many different levels of society like the mafia has." now ofcourse he was speaking about the (not so distant) past, but even today to compare them to a bunch of unorganized black guys on the corner slinging rock is ridiculous.

Exactly. The mob is all about being involved in Legitimate business that fuels Their Illegal activities. Simply put the made men and associates are businessmen and union workers.

Ok I see what u mean if it wasn't for the union being around the mafia would be broksters?

as long as people wanna gamble the mob is never going to be broke.

Define 'gang'.

In many ways they are and always have been a gang.

'A group of people who through membership conspire to commit crime.'

Sounds like just a good a description for the Bloods as it does the West side.

They definitely would suffer some financial issues. My point was that mobsters work regular jobs. It's not reality for most mobsters to sit at home and just collect a paycheck. The only men who get that are the big guys. Your soldiers and associates are responsible of taking care of the legitimate end of the deal. Which is Business. Long days and any stressful hours invested. They earn their payday let me tell you that.

Was he referring to American history (Guilani) or world history? Either case I would disagree to some extent.
Why use that comparison to black dealers?
@botz Yes, they still can fall under gang. There are many definitions of "gang" and just our society seem to conjure up images of bangers/bikers since they been called a gang left and right. But la cosa nostra is included as well since they're roots goes back to being one themselves. After all a "mob" is an organized "gang".

the italian mafia, yakuza, triads and a couple other organizations are more than a gang

Traditionally I would say that the Mafia was more than a gang. But as of today I have to kind of concur. They don't have the power that everyone wishes they did and the sum of their actions can be compared to any other gang. So formally, are they more well structured than a gang, yes. Power wise, I'd say they are equal with some gangs.

I'm talking America, Not Italy, those guys are on another level across the pond.

When Carlo Gambino and Tommy Luchese were alive and active, the mafia was a 'shadow' government and a group of 'shadow' corporations. NYC judges could not be 'made' without prior approval of Frank Costello. The 5 fams of NY and Chicago are definately not 'gangs'. Some of the smaller fams left... maybe so.

Yea but you think these guys still control judges and politicians? the creator is not talking the past but rather the present day power.

what gangs do you think are as powerful as the five families are in the tri state area, please name me one black, latino, russain, albanian, chinese, or whatever the fuck, that is more diversified and has more reach into legitimate industries as the italians do(in the tri state area). Now philly is a different story, i think since merlinos reign began they could pretty much be categorized as a gang. Theyve had little to no involvement with unions, and have been brought down to a street operation where over the past 15 or 20 years they have been the most active in shaking down drug dealers, gambling, and putting money out on the street. Now does any1 really think the five families are on the same level as philly?

Are the Colombo's still that strong? For some reason, I thought they were down to about 40-50 made guys. Are they still in control of unions?

JCB, according to Raab's FF book, he estimates the made guys as more than that.

It gets interesting with the defections- I've been curious as to which family was damaged the most. Bonannos with Good Looking Sal, Richard Canterella and Big Joey Massino flipping. Luccheses with Al D'Arco, Gaspipe, Fat Pete Chiodo flipping. The Colombos with Wild Bill's son flipping, and Greg Scarpa feeding them info.

Do the rats actually cause enough damage to the families to the extent they shake up the power rankings? Or is the damage small in the big picture?

JCB thats prob a fair number on the street. Another 30odd in jail.

Philly cant come close to 80 buttons.

Has any of the other families outside NY and Chicago ever been close to 100 made guys?

Hell's Angels for one I think would give them a run for their money. All of your talk of unions and branching into legitimate business is for the damn birds. Last big time legit business was the crap in Texas and they are all about to get ass reamed for doing it. Your living in the past, the Italians are no where near as strong as they used to be. You like to watch the Sopranos and Goodfellas and say "oh man look at the power they have" when in reality they have been reduced to bird shit.

The Gambino's and Genovese's had 200 or more at one point. Most of the 5 Families had 100 or more in their heyday.

Great article from NY Magazine and Jerry Capeci. This was from a while back in 2005, but Capeci at the time estimated the Colombo's at 75-85...that has to be severely reduced now after all the convictions and turncoats.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/10870/

Are you responding to my question? If so i meant other than NY, i know the Gambinos and Genovese are currently estimated at 200 members and the other 3 are estimated at roughly 100.

im not looking for an argument here and I'm no fanboy, IM A STREET GUY! lol jk, but for real i am a (lowly) union worker in nyc, now for the record, my union is for the most part pretty clean(free of mob influence), but within certain aspects of the construction industry LCN presence is just a way of life. and im not talking about them taking over and extorting legitimate business and companies(at least not on a large scale), i said "reach into industries". it is well documented of the mobs involvemnt in garbage hauling in the city, westchester county, conneticuit, and all over north jersey and on the waterfront in new york, new jersey and florida(and yes im talking about recently,not the past http://nypost.com/2013/01/17/feds-snare-30-in-mob-garbage-sting/, just one of many examples). Now i understand perfectly what your saying about how the mob isnt as strong as some people on here wish it would be(im not one of those people) but its getting to the point where some people are so intent on not being seen as a "fanboy" that your completely missing my point. now im not saying it is like it was in the 70s and 80s or hell even the 90s, but i get the impression you think im saying theyre this all powerful and all knowing organization, and your saying they're "birdshit", come on man there is plenty of middle ground. And i see very little evidence that the hells angels could "give the mob a run for their money" as the most powerful oc group in the tri state area. do they have their own niche in the drug and extortion rackets? of course, and plenty other of stuff, they even work with italians sometimes when its mutually beneficial, but i just dont see the evidence that they have the reach the mob does.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you either bro, but I don't believe personally that these guys have judges and politicians in their hands anymore though. Guess what I'm trying to say is the prestige isn't there anymore.

no one is saying these guys have judges and polticians in their pockets "like nickels and dimes", that shit was over rated even back in frank costellos day. yes in many ways it has lost its "prestige"(or at least the illusion of it), just look at the bust of nicky mouths santoras crew from a few months back, those guys were defiantly sloppy, selling weed and fucking viagra pills and running a medium sized book, but even those guys had their hands in the unions.

No, they're not simply a gang. And arguing that they are is just silly. There hasn't been a criminal organization in postmodern history as far reaching as the mob was at its peak. End of story. But if you're a moralist and asking yourself whether your average LCN guy is a "better" person than you're average gangbanger, the objective answer is no.

If a guy shows up to do you harm over some money, or shake you down for part of your hard earned business, then it doesn't make a bit of difference if he's wearing a Brioni suit and a pinky ring or he's wearing a doo-rag and sporting a gold tooth. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. And crime is crime.

By the definition of Gang, yes it is and that could apply to many other organized crime groups such as the Cartel, Triads e.t.c. What makes the Italian Mafia's different from other ordinary gangs is how , lime many others have said it is entrenched in the legitimate economy and has political ties.

The Italian - American Mafia for the most part has lost it's political power that it once had in it's heyday. The same goes for it's ties to unions but that still remains a major factor for the mob in America. The other thing I think separates it from other gangs is it's structure and codes of conduct. Now, I know the Mafia says "Oooh we don't do this, we do this and don't kill women" e.t.c. we all know that's total BS, the rules can be bent over and over again to suit the needs at a particular time, we all know this.

However the fact that they have these so called codes of conduct still means some members and associates will obey them and will think twice before breaking them, instead of not having them at all. They are more like guidelines than rules.

They are also not just a gang in the sense that they are a secret society of criminals. They aren't throwing out gangs signs or dressing up in colors, the most obvious thing they could do is dress dapper like Gotti, but even that doesn't prove they are part of a gang as if they had tattoo's, it just matches the stereotype Gangster.

As for the Mafia's in Italy, Cosa Nostra, Camorra, Ndrangheta and SCU, although they also are gangs by definition, I don't think I need to explain why especially they are not your average thugs.

I mean, siphoning off EU funds for Green projects?!