Just curious...if Ligambi is or was backed by the Genovese why did he run to the Gambino's about phillys beef with the Luccheses? You know the meeting in North Jersey that Stefanelli taped. I would think a guy like Barney or whoever was in charge of the Genovese at the time could of been more help to them then the guys Ligambi met with from the Gambino's.

Do the Genovese still have guys (sports book) working in philly and south jersey?

Question: In all seriousness, how likely is it that if Ligambi gets convicted, Joey comes riding back on a white horse to claim the throne? Wouldn't other guys who have been earning in the city feel it was their turn to step up?

I'm just curious because it would seem if I was out there busting my chops on the street and all of a sudden a guy came back who was put in the can for not doing quite a great job in the first place, I wouldn't necessarily want that guy to hop back on top given his tendencies to screw it up in the past. I don't know all the facts or inside info in Philly, just wondering what the other soldiers felt like with his alleged return to the city.

Dentico used have a crew down there but I'm not sure if he still does. I'm not even sure he's still active, period or if someone else has taken over.

La , I am not a Joey fan , far from it but the thing that would save him , He was in prison and on restrictions .

Now if he was just laying low and came back be different.

I know people in NY and anyone i ever talked to about this Joey thing and NY ,have no clue ,who why where .

I think feds were coming down so hard on all the family's that they let it all slip by,From Stanfa on down.

Well if Joey was always the boss as is believed, why would anyone not expect Joey to take control when released?

Not talking about Joey, Carmela was referring to some kid with a receding hair line, I thought he should just shave his head. I can't comment on Joey or his use of drugs but looking at the pictures he has a very good build and a lot of muscles.

the feds would be so far up Joey's ass the very second he showed his face in the city he would most definitely not have too easy a time conducting any kind of business

Reading the internet, local papers, etc., The Feds have a real hard on for George Borgesi (hairline) & Joey Merlino. Joey would be nuts to come back.

The Ligambi and borgesi trial should have started this week. News says Ligambi is gonna get 15+ years if convicted. It didn't say about Borgesi's potential sentence, if convicted. But, the retrial is a regurgitation of previously presented evidence, which backfired on the government, so who knows how it will play out for them.

IF BOTH CONVICTED:
Mousie got busted on a drug rap, so he's out . Handsome Stevie, is temp boss, so maybe takes the throne permanently? Or Mikey Lance steps up?

IF BORGESI NOT CONVICTED: He and Joey are boys. Even though he is Ligambi's nephew, they despise each other. So, if ligambi goes but borgesi doesn't he may take over.

IF NEITHER ARE CONVICTED

I don't know how much Ligambi bows to Joey Merlino. He is not a flash guy, so he's gotta clash with Merlino on this aspect of their ruling personalities. He's smart enough to maintain distance from Merlino, who is a giant Elephant in the room for the Law, no matter where his is.

I know the media/tapes, etc, all have joey as boss from jail, but Joe Ligambi's comment about letting Joey Merlino make soldiers when he gets out, can very easily be taken in the context of Joe Ligambi just saying "hey, I'm not worried about what Joey Merlino wants. If he wants to make guys under him, let him deal with it". OR the comment could mean that he didn't have the authority to make those other 2-3 guys and he needed Merlino to do it. But, isn't it also true that Joe Ligambi didn't make the 2-3 guys because he didn't know them? If so, that supports Ligambi doing his thing; not what Merlino wants.

It's reasonable to think that Merlino now has his gambling issues under wraps now and that he got a good criminal education in jail; Maybe he can become a good earner. And, with that, he may be a different boss the second time around. But, Philly LCN is definitely on the ropes right now, due to the current cases. They couldn't handle any more turmoil. If he comes back and Ligambi is on the street, it could create problems; regardless if they play nice. But hell, I don't know these guys personally, so it's all conjecture at this point.

You ain't kidding there, one dinner out with the guys and the city would be in an uproar, lol...

When Joey come back to South Philly, he is and will still be boss. Any of the guys try to tell Joey that he is no longer boss, Joey will put on a Halloween mask and dust off the mac10 he used on Nicky, Jr.

they could go to the kitchen consigliere's restaurant over the bridge in collingswood. For those who don't know, it Angelo Lutz' place

Lutz restaurant blows and that's an understatement

ha! I never been there. My buddy went but he didn't know who the guy was. He said it was pretty good. But, that was a couple years ago, when it first opened.

I'm not gonna lie the food is decent but overpriced, overbooked, understaffed, etc

El Fiore is a hidden treasure in collingswood I told everyone I know about this place for years, now a lot of people know and it's crowded. Bistro di. Marino is amazing, as is Nunzios which is a bit pricey but very nice ambiance.

joey merlino is gonna get everybody indicted if he returns

philly should ban him from the whole state

I'm sure you already know this Giancarlo the Genovese Family looks out for the Genovese Family that's why Ligambi went to John Gambino. Plus after Lenoetti went bad and then Natale. Stanfa and Merlino goign at it; it's all bad for business why get involved??? If the Genovese Family wants something they're going to take it/get it on the other hand the gambino's have always had a solid alliance with Philadelphia

The Genovese never "backed" Ligambi in the sense of backing him in a conflict. They, and the rest of NY, apparently accepted him as boss (acting anyway) eventually.



Definitely in South Jersey. Not sure about Philly.

If ligambi is found guilty i think the hierarchy in philly will stay the same as it is now... Merlino top guy in the shadows, with mazzone as acting boss and chang either #2 or #3.. Lance will probably stay a capo.. and if Georgie gets out maybe they will give him his #3 spot back. Georgie just dont seem like boss material and even if he beats this case, he will end up back in the slammer soon enough... Merlino and Ligambi are like family. Merlinos dad is the one who brought him into the mob basically. So i dont see the Joey's fighting with each other. I also dont see Merlino coming back to South philly anytime soon, but thats just my opinion and I may be wrong.

And also with all the Scarfo guys getting out of jail, they just did about 25 years so i doubt there gonna come home and be street soldiers and collect debts and stuff like that.. theyre gonna want bigger action with less heat.

Hey Ivey, what Genoese guys have books in south jersey? I'm just curious, I'm pretty familiar with the area and I was under the impression everyone here is independent or with south philly.

Yes please let me know as well. What Genovese guys have a book in SJ? Who is it? Where did you get the info? Was there an indictment? Maybe...Just Maybe...there is a guy that is an independent who is an associate of the Genoves and moved to south jersey or a similar situation.

IVY would know he's "the man".

Very doubtful

doesnt borgesi still have a bunch of time left in the can? and if for say he is convicted on this new charge hes prob gonna be in for a long time no?

@VEGAS el Fiore is awesome. And so is bistro di marino. I haven't been to nunzio's in years. When I lived in Collingswood, we hit all of those places. I never like villa barone though. I thought it was...meh. We really liked Cucina Forte in Philly. 8th and Catherine.

@Mazzone: I agree with you wrt heirachy. And, I don't know if anyone can speak to the presence/absence of the Genovese in South Jersey, unless someone on this forum REALLY KNOWS someone in the Genovese, or if it's been made public knowledge from law enforcement reports. It is very easy to (correctly) assume that all of the NYC families have some action going on in SJ; shore areas, etc., because Philly Mob hasn't been strong enough or savvy enough in the past 10-15 years to keep the other families out.

It's common knowledge in this area that it's a free-for-all when it comes to crime. There are lot's of biker gangs; warlocks, pagans, etc.,and also th ethnic gangs on the rise. Every small town in SJ has threats of bloods, crips, MS-13, russians, etc. I know that NYC also has these threats, but the LCN can at least hold their territories there. Go to South Philly and count how many italians vs. vietnamese, russians, camboians, blacks, etc. Packer Park & a few other areas are holding their own, but other areas are over-run.

Scarfo's guys served a lot of time. It would take all of them to band together once they got out, to right the ship here. Faffy, Pung's, Narducci's, etc., would have to come in and help these young guys out. Not sure if it would work or not. For a time, Chuckie Merlino was the biggest PHILLY guy; Scarfo spent a lot of time in AC. Who knows what he told his son at breakfast about Faffy, Narducci's, etc. For all we know, Joey Merlino may love these guys; or he may want them all dead. But, if they are smart, they all stay away.

What happens if Ligambi and Borgesi are convicted? The law knows the hierarchy; It's easy for them to just shift attention to the next guy. Bust him, and then repeat. Pretty soon, guys are gonna realize crime in philly LCN will be a guaranteed sentence. Or, they won't. What do I know; armchair LCN clown that I am.

The first sentence is completed,he is only in jail on the new charges and face 20 years.

Ivy who are these current Genovese sports books around here and what are your sources?

In October 2000, 6 people including Thomas Floriani, Richard Crossan, and Frank Grabon were indicted in Philadelphia on charges of running a bookmaking operation tied to the Genovese family. The operation stretched from Philadelphia into New Jersey.

In June 2003, 19 people including Genovese captain Ludwig "Ninny" Bruschi and soldiers Rocco Petrozza and John "Blue" DeFroscia were indicted for running a sports bookmaking operation that stretched throughout New Jersey.

In August 2005, 16 people including Genovese captains Larry Dentico and Ninny Bruschi, and soldiers Michael Borelli and Michael Crincoli were indicted for running a sports bookmaking operation that stretched from New York, throughout New Jersey, and into Philadelphia.

In February 2008, 37 people including Joseph Pasquale, Richard Crossan, Thomas Floriani, and Michael Pesin were indicted for running a Genovese connected bookmaking operation that stretched into South Jersey.

In April 2009, 34 people including Genovese soldier John "Blue" DeFroscia and associate Thomas Conforti, were indicted for running a bookmaking operation that stretched from North Jersey down to Atlantic City.

In June 2013, 22 people including Richard Crossan, Thomas Floriani, and Louis Carlesimo Jr., were indicted for running a bookmaking operation tied to the Genovese family that stretched from North Jersey to South Jersey as well as New York.

Feel free to Google any of these cases.

Incidentally, in February 2008, there was another bookmaking bust in Philadelphia where 9 people including a guy by the name of Brad Pesin were indicted for running a sports bookmaking operation. I've wondered if he is related to the Michael Pesin that was involved in the New Jersey bust that same month and year.

People should also remember that the 2004 New Jersey OC report talked about how the Genovese family had been expanding into Middlesex, Monmouth, and Ocean Counties. Talking too loudly about this expansion was reportedly one of the reasons Larry Ricci was killed.
http://www.state.nj.us/sci/pdf/ocreport.pdf

I've posted this 2005 article before...

A Genovese crew in New Jersey allegedly headed by reputed capo Lawrence "Little Larry" Dentico is charged with running a major sports book out of social clubs, bars and delicatessens in North Jersey and Staten Island. The illegal betting operation got bigger each fall as more and more bettors, eager to wager on the NFL and college football games, found their way to the mob bookies. There were so many gamblers looking for action that the Genovese family expanded into South Jersey and Philadelphia — traditionally the turf of the Philly Cosa Nostra.
http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/2005-08-25/cb2.shtml

Thanks ivy, lots of good stuff, if I may however point out that south jersey on,y goes up to Burlington county but you still did provide a couple examples in south jersey. Thank you