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Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: mulberry] #730658
07/29/13 01:20 PM
07/29/13 01:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 725
Northumberland England
GaryH Offline
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GaryH  Offline
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Posts: 725
Northumberland England
Originally Posted By: mulberry
He wasn't that good if he got whacked by his own people. He was a good businessman, not a gangster. He should have moved against Gotti as soon as Dellacroce died.


That's the difference between Paul and Carlo.
Carlo wasn't afraid of upsetting his underboss
Paul was.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: GaryH] #730790
07/29/13 09:57 PM
07/29/13 09:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,185
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bronx Offline
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well said and true

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: GaryH] #730796
07/29/13 10:35 PM
07/29/13 10:35 PM
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bobbytran Offline
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Capo
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Originally Posted By: GaryH
Originally Posted By: mulberry
He wasn't that good if he got whacked by his own people. He was a good businessman, not a gangster. He should have moved against Gotti as soon as Dellacroce died.


That's the difference between Paul and Carlo.
Carlo wasn't afraid of upsetting his underboss
Paul was.



He was on trial with the Demeo Crew and also indicted on the commission case he really had his back against the wall and was in no position to make a move, had to many other problems.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: bobbytran] #730818
07/30/13 12:29 AM
07/30/13 12:29 AM
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Posts: 2,185
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bronx Offline
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he could have given the hit out to chin..

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: bobbytran] #730936
07/30/13 02:36 PM
07/30/13 02:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 725
Northumberland England
GaryH Offline
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GaryH  Offline
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Northumberland England
Originally Posted By: bobbytran
Originally Posted By: GaryH
Originally Posted By: mulberry
He wasn't that good if he got whacked by his own people. He was a good businessman, not a gangster. He should have moved against Gotti as soon as Dellacroce died.


That's the difference between Paul and Carlo.
Carlo wasn't afraid of upsetting his underboss
Paul was.



He was on trial with the Demeo Crew and also indicted on the commission case he really had his back against the wall and was in no position to make a move, had to many other problems.




When your the Boss of bosses you have to deal with these things
I don't see what the problem was?
If Paul could get rid of Demeo (eventually) he could get rid of Gotti

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #730981
07/30/13 07:29 PM
07/30/13 07:29 PM
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Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein Offline
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SonnyBlackstein  Offline
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And most assuredly would have done so had Gotti not hit first.


MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: SonnyBlackstein] #731042
07/31/13 12:27 AM
07/31/13 12:27 AM
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Posts: 361
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bobbytran Offline
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Capo
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Thats what im saying he obviously didn't take Gotti that seriously. Plus with the other problems he had he probably wasn't thinking to much about Gotti, he probably would've beaten the Demeo crew case so I think if Gotti didn't make his move he would have probably busted Gotti down and Killed Ruggiero and maybe Gene Gotti before going on trial in the commission case.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #731053
07/31/13 01:16 AM
07/31/13 01:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,537
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jace Offline
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I think the other bosses of remaining families in New York thought he was good boss. He had a lot of scrutiny placed on him as soon as Gambino died, yet he had a good run till commision case. Killing DeMeo seems to have been neccesary, and he had it done. If he had taken care of Gotti too, a transiition after him being convicted would have gone smoothly I would think.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #731126
07/31/13 01:29 PM
07/31/13 01:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 24
Louisiana
DaneDane Offline
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DaneDane  Offline
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Louisiana
I know this is off topic, but since Mr. Castellano is being discussed...something has always bugged me about that oft shown photo of him lying dead in front of Sparks. What the heck is that he is holding in his hand?! (Please forgive a newbie, if this is a well documenting thing)

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: DaneDane] #731140
07/31/13 02:18 PM
07/31/13 02:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles Offline
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HairyKnuckles  Offline
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Originally Posted By: DaneDane
I know this is off topic, but since Mr. Castellano is being discussed...something has always bugged me about that oft shown photo of him lying dead in front of Sparks. What the heck is that he is holding in his hand?! (Please forgive a newbie, if this is a well documenting thing)


It is a leather glove.

Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 07/31/13 02:21 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #731161
07/31/13 03:24 PM
07/31/13 03:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 24
Louisiana
DaneDane Offline
Wiseguy
DaneDane  Offline
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Louisiana
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: DaneDane
I know this is off topic, but since Mr. Castellano is being discussed...something has always bugged me about that oft shown photo of him lying dead in front of Sparks. What the heck is that he is holding in his hand?! (Please forgive a newbie, if this is a well documenting thing)


It is a leather glove.

Ohhhhh crazy Thank you Mr. Knuckles.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: DaneDane] #731175
07/31/13 05:00 PM
07/31/13 05:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
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HairyKnuckles Offline
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Originally Posted By: DaneDane
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: DaneDane
I know this is off topic, but since Mr. Castellano is being discussed...something has always bugged me about that oft shown photo of him lying dead in front of Sparks. What the heck is that he is holding in his hand?! (Please forgive a newbie, if this is a well documenting thing)


It is a leather glove.

Ohhhhh crazy Thank you Mr. Knuckles.


You´re welcome Mr Dane.


[Linked Image]
Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: jace] #731215
07/31/13 08:26 PM
07/31/13 08:26 PM
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Posts: 999
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mulberry Offline
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Posts: 999
Originally Posted By: jace
I think the other bosses of remaining families in New York thought he was good boss. He had a lot of scrutiny placed on him as soon as Gambino died, yet he had a good run till commision case. Killing DeMeo seems to have been neccesary, and he had it done. If he had taken care of Gotti too, a transiition after him being convicted would have gone smoothly I would think.


The other bosses made money with him, but it doesn't mean they thought he was a good boss. What matters most is what your family thinks of you. Apparently, enough people didn't think he was a good boss that they killed him and nobody in the family did anything about it. Imagine if some renegade capos in the Genovese family whacked Gigante. All the conspirators would be dead.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #731225
07/31/13 11:22 PM
07/31/13 11:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 24
Louisiana
DaneDane Offline
Wiseguy
DaneDane  Offline
Wiseguy
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Louisiana
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: DaneDane
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: DaneDane
I know this is off topic, but since Mr. Castellano is being discussed...something has always bugged me about that oft shown photo of him lying dead in front of Sparks. What the heck is that he is holding in his hand?! (Please forgive a newbie, if this is a well documenting thing)


It is a leather glove.

Ohhhhh crazy Thank you Mr. Knuckles.


You´re welcome Mr Dane.


That's Ms. Dane...I must need a more girly avatar, lol.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: mulberry] #731227
07/31/13 11:33 PM
07/31/13 11:33 PM
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Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein Offline
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SonnyBlackstein  Offline
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Posts: 2,017
Originally Posted By: mulberry
Apparently, enough people didn't think he was a good boss that they killed him and nobody in the family did anything about it.


Not necessarily.

The Bergin crew was the most feared in the family (keep in mind this is post Demeo).
Going to war with them was a very serious problem.

Additionally Jimmy Brown and Marino conspired with Chin to have him removed. And who knows who they had in their pockets?

So just because Gotti wasn't hit is absolutely not indicative of a general dislike of Paul as a boss.


MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: SonnyBlackstein] #731236
08/01/13 02:10 AM
08/01/13 02:10 AM
Joined: May 2013
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mulberry Offline
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mulberry  Offline
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Underboss
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The other 23 crews combined were so afraid of the bergin crew that they allowed one crew to kill their boss?

The Brown/Marino conspiracy was never verified. I doubt it ever happened or else one or both would have been killed when the story came out.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: mulberry] #731237
08/01/13 02:40 AM
08/01/13 02:40 AM
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Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein Offline
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SonnyBlackstein  Offline
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Originally Posted By: mulberry
The other 23 crews combined were so afraid of the bergin crew that they allowed one crew to kill their boss?

The Brown/Marino conspiracy was never verified. I doubt it ever happened or else one or both would have been killed when the story came out.


1. The point is the other 23 crews were not combined.

2. The conspiracy is commonly accepted as have taken place.


MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: DaneDane] #731238
08/01/13 03:10 AM
08/01/13 03:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles Offline
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HairyKnuckles  Offline
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Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
Originally Posted By: DaneDane

That's Ms. Dane...I must need a more girly avatar, lol.


Oops! Sorry about that. It´s just that females are very rare on these kind of forums.

How about Winny the pooh as your avatar? smile

Welcome to the boards!

Attached Files 1214 (2).jpg

[Linked Image]
Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #731257
08/01/13 10:20 AM
08/01/13 10:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 24
Louisiana
DaneDane Offline
Wiseguy
DaneDane  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 24
Louisiana
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: DaneDane

That's Ms. Dane...I must need a more girly avatar, lol.


Oops! Sorry about that. It´s just that females are very rare on these kind of forums.

How about Winny the pooh as your avatar? smile

Welcome to the boards!


Thanks, lol!

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: SonnyBlackstein] #731280
08/01/13 12:57 PM
08/01/13 12:57 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
M
mulberry Offline
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mulberry  Offline
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Underboss
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Posts: 999
Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
Originally Posted By: mulberry
The other 23 crews combined were so afraid of the bergin crew that they allowed one crew to kill their boss?

The Brown/Marino conspiracy was never verified. I doubt it ever happened or else one or both would have been killed when the story came out.


1. The point is the other 23 crews were not combined.

2. The conspiracy is commonly accepted as have taken place.


1. That's right, they were not combined because they didn't respect their boss enough to avenge his death. If guys like Carlo Gambino, Tommy Lucchese, or Gigante had been killed by a renegade crew, that crew would have been wiped out.

2. Commonly accepted by who? That was a story told by Anthony Casso and the media took off running with it despite having no corroboration that it ever existed. There were no other testimony or wiretaps to prove it ever happened. The fact that nothing ever happened to Marino and Failla makes the story hard to believe. If the Gambinos believe MArino and Failla plotted to kill Gotti, they would have been killed, demoted or shelved.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #731286
08/01/13 01:48 PM
08/01/13 01:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 725
Northumberland England
GaryH Offline
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GaryH  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 725
Northumberland England
Well Gotti wasn't totally alone, he won over Frank Decicco who was respected throughout the family.
Gotti also reached out to People in the Bonnano, Lucchese and Colombo families to gauge what their reaction would be.
Not surprisingly he made no attempt to contact the Genovese!

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #919838
09/12/17 11:44 PM
09/12/17 11:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 259
Quiet_Doms Offline
Capo
Quiet_Doms  Offline
Capo
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Posts: 259
Paul was more of a racketeer as opposed to a gangster. The 80's approached and he took the Family in a more lucrative direction. While the blue collar wing remained steeped in the streets. He also didn't help his campaign by being greedy and allowing Gigante to clip Frank Piccolo, amongst many other offenses. Still if you majored in book making, shylocking, numbers etc... you can't be mad at another guy if he infiltrates the stock markets and unions.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #919847
09/13/17 06:45 AM
09/13/17 06:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 392
F
Flushing Offline
Capo
Flushing  Offline
F
Capo
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Posts: 392
Was Costello really that much different than Castellano?

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #919854
09/13/17 08:43 AM
09/13/17 08:43 AM
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Posts: 1,710
BillyBrizzi Offline
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BillyBrizzi  Offline
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His biggest mistake was not declaring that he'd make Frank DeCicco acting boss if he would go to jail. If he would've done that, he wouldn't have gotten hit and it would've been way better in general for the family, as DeCicco was respected by both factions and had great leadership skills.


FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #919875
09/13/17 02:36 PM
09/13/17 02:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,183
Your Mom's House
Jimmy_Two_Times Offline
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Posts: 1,183
Your Mom's House
Just my two cents upon further reflection... I think Paul and a chance to be a good boss and by that i mean knowing how to get the most out of his people while instilling loyalty. The fact that he was more white collar crime then blue collar crime showed how the family was diverse. Instead of purposefully not acknowledging the blue collar crew (and only taking their $$), he should have tried to welcome that diversity, like any corporation (and like he liked to think of himself as a corporate leader). Where Paul I thought was weak as a leader is that he was me-first and didn't really understand his "work force." What he did to Frank Piccolo was a crime, and clearly demonstrated his lack of care for family members. I don't know if he called in and had talks with Piccolo, but he should have, or at least broken him down to soldier, before ever allowing another family to execute him. He may have been a smart businessman, but i think he was a poor leader.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: BillyBrizzi] #919879
09/13/17 04:05 PM
09/13/17 04:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 725
Northumberland England
GaryH Offline
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GaryH  Offline
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Posts: 725
Northumberland England
Originally Posted By: BillyBrizzi
His biggest mistake was not declaring that he'd make Frank DeCicco acting boss if he would go to jail. If he would've done that, he wouldn't have gotten hit and it would've been way better in general for the family, as DeCicco was respected by both factions and had great leadership skills.


Damn right.
Tommy Bilotti was a walking pitbull and no doubt was a good bodyguard but was NOT Underboss or acting Boss material.

Re: Was Big Paul a good Boss? [Re: Flushing] #920036
09/15/17 12:33 AM
09/15/17 12:33 AM
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Posts: 865
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MightyDR Offline
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Originally Posted By: Flushing
Was Costello really that much different than Castellano?


Good point. Definitely a lot of similarities.

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