and by all means you can disagree that's the best part about forums but i have no reason to lie or exaggerate the truth.

Well, I guess that's where we differ, Ivy. And it's really not that big a difference, it's just that our interpretations are different.

You seem to be saying that every time an independent lays off to a connected guy, or vice versa, that that automatically puts the independent guy in the connected column because they do a little business together. The Feds do this too, to bolster their numbers (just like they do with EVERYTHING else).

I just don't see it that way. In my opinion, if an independent isn't paying protection, and if he's not "on the record" with a wiseguy, then he's not connected. Because if he's not "with" a guy, then the guy certainly isn't going to lift a finger to help him if he gets jammed up. And that's the only perk of being a mob connected bookmaker: Having a guy to run to.

So there you go. I see it one way, you see it another. No biggie.

There's a ton of guys not connected and not paying anyone! And Ivy since your more apt to keep an eye out for LCN headlines is t it safe to say you've missed the independent busts? Just a thought! I'd say there are more independent books than connected or paying for a connection! It's just not a valuable investment anymore.

lol this thread is already fucked. We should change the title to "therapy and disagreements 101." I'll start another one and Ivy if you come on there with your bullshit, this guy will sit on your thick head.

agree

Actually, I keep track of all the bookmaking busts. I see them in other areas of the country as well. For a more recent example, look at the thread I started about the two bookmaking busts in Oklahoma City and Albany in the last couple days.

The Albany one is a good example. One of the defendants is Joseph "Oink" Carucci. He's been involved in gambling busts up there in the past with George Bedigian. Although one Florida guy charged is/was a DeCavalcante associate, from what I can tell, in cases both past and present, these guys aren't mobbed up. And it's not necessarily surprising because Albany is far enough away from the mob's scope of influence.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that the vast majority of bookmaking busts in those exact areas that have a big mob presence are mob-connected, while those further away often aren't. Of course, as pizzaboy said above, how one defines "connected" may vary.



It's funny that you make up Outfit crews out of thin air but you call me the bullshitter. Anyway, I'd be happy to go back to talking about the current state of the Chicago Outfit. Of course, even there, we'll probably butt heads because you and the feds differ so often.

Lol, Chitown.

Ok I stand corrected!

Maybe the South Side/26th Street crew has some guys there but there isn't another crew based there, according to the FBI.



the area is too vast for just "some guys" to be able to run rackets

there's a crew that works the southburbs and northwest indiana

they might report to somebody but there's still a crew

Well, then it probably would be elements of the South Side/26th Street crew.

the southburbs combined with northwest indy is a decent chunk of land

it would take a crew to run it

Cook you're being oversimplistic, doesn't matter how big the area is. Someone could be running a 100 million dollar betting ring on a small street corner in Gary, it doesn't take an entire crew to oversee that.

Ivey, if you want a list of some names then PM me and I will give you a list. Im not putting out names on front street. Everyone has told you that its happening all over the east coast. You mention the Mastronados because they are the only ones you know cause they are the only ones who made the paper. They also have a political tie and have been doing it for years so the FBI and state police also have a hard on for them as they do the Mob. Your wrong and you look stupid arguing it still. But thats you...All day everyday arguing with everyone about everything on all threads on all forums. Your not always right. Its annoying.

You could certainly send me names via PM. But that won't necessarily prove anything since there may be no way to verify them.

You also have to consider that, even if you and others know of several independent bookmaking operations - and I do question your ability to really know their business - that doesn't mean what I'm saying regarding the overall picture isn't correct.

This isn't about me being right. I'm just saying what the evidence tells me.

you do realize that soldiers and some associates have crews in Chicago

that Anthony calabrese guy being an example

a few guys wouldn't be able to keep watch over that much territory

they might not be their own bosses but it's still a crew of guys

Why not? The Outfit has had to "watch over" generally the same amount of territory today with half the crews and a fraction of the membership it once had. And one way it's done it, apparently, is by streamlining it's operations. It's not really into anything and everything the way it used to be. It doesn't have a monolithic stranglehold on all criminal enterprises throughout the city. So it doesn't need the manpower it once did.

the syndicate has never had a "monolithic stranglehold" in crime in Chicago

the feds said al tournabene (consigliere) was in charge of the south suburbs

you love quoting the feds and the feds said the south suburbs have operations

I'm not saying the Outfit doesn't have operations in the south suburbs. I'm saying there isn't a fifth crew down there. Whoever is down there, they are likely part of one of the remaining crews. Probably the South Side/26th Street crew.

That sounds correct to me, cook county you should check out the new book about the Chicago heights crew it's and entertaining and informative read.

I was gonna order it but I ain't got around to it yet

Ivy, I believe you are correct. The Chicago Heights Crew I do not believe exists as a 5th Crew anymore. The guys in the Heights belong to either 26th St. or Cicero depending upon what activity they do. The 4 Street crews presently are Elmwood Park(Dominant Crew), Grand Ave., Cicero & 26th St. The Outfit was NEVER divided into two groups. That is what The Elmwood Park crew would like everyone to think because Johnny does not want to die in jail. The 3 other Crews are all PARTNERED one way or another with Elmwood Park. Solly D. belongs to Cicero. It doesn't matter if he is in Lake County! He was in Lake County 25 years ago. He still belongs to Cicero. Marco D'Amico belongs to Elmwood Park and is the Day to Day Front Boss over the Entire Outfit.

New men were made after 2000. There is no question. The new faces are actually old faces of soldiers who moved up and were made into mainly the Cicero & 26th St. Crews. Elmwood Park approved any new men made in the last 10 years. There doesn't have to be a lot of people present for a new man to be made. In fact it's better if there are not very many people there at all. When Johnny made Marco years ago, I heard it was Marco, Johnny,& Carlisi. Why advertise it and take a risk? Johnny was always very secretive and very smart. The Bosses of 26th St. and Cicero proposed some new men to move up in the last 10 years, Elmwood Park approved and that was the end of it.

Marco is in the Elmwood Park Crew and is the day to day front Boss. All the other crews are partnered with Elmwood Park in one way or another. John DiFronzo sponsored Marco in 1986 when Cerone went to Jail.

it was a good book and sadly the heights is still the same way

just the murderers are black and latino now-a-days

And virtually no arrests for anything in 10 years. Hmmm...

I seriously doubt that you know about every bookmaking bust in the country or even the NY/NJ area. There are probably dozens or hundreds busted each year that are never reported in the news. I've known several bookies who got busted and it never made the news. There are hundreds of independent bookies who never get busted because nobody is looking for them. When I was in college, all the Asians went to Asian bookies, the Indians went to Indian bookies etc. These other ethnic groups have no use for some goombahs who will end up stiffing them or shaking them down.

I don't just use news outlets to keep track of them. I also use the federal and local prosecutor's websites. If there's a bust, it will be reported somewhere.

Mike Magnafichi is now a sports-blogger and podcaster at American News Post.

The Outfit doesn't exist anymore like it did years ago. The New Oufit is strictly White Collar. The old Blue Collar Outfit started to get phased out about 15 years ago. After 2002, it became more steadily phased out. When Marco D'Amico got out of prison in 2005, He was named acting Boss. All the men and relatives of men who are with him and Johnny Dfronzo etc. are all white collar. It is a different kind of Outfit that changed with the times. In 2007, The Feds said there were about 28 made guys. However, in the last 6 years, some of them are gone and there are many more NEW YOUNGER MEN who belong to the The Outfit and are college graduates who are related by blood or marriage to the Top Bosses. They are more like a powerful Sicilian Clan with strong political and Union Connections. The Blue Collar Bookmaking has almost completely been phased out and the Loan Sharking is basically non existent. There is no future in it.

Elmwoodparker, You're not all wrong but you're not all correct either. What young men who are college graduates belong to the Outfit and are related by blood or marriage? DiFronzo, Andriacchi, D'Amico, etc. have no younger male relatives who belong to the Outfit. They may have a relative or two that runs a legitimate business, but legitimate businesses are not ( at least during my father's day) part of the Outfit. That was always something separate, at least years ago. I don't see this white collar Outfit that you've created really being in existence. John DiFronzo doesn't care about the Outfit in any way. He is a rich, selfish asshole. As far as the South Side is concerned, Sarno had to actually use a motorcycle gang member to do some muscle work for him. That should show you that even the South side "Blue Collar" Group as you call it are on their last leg.