With the anointment of the new Pope announced just got me to thinking how much a role religion has played on the mob guys and how things have changed over the years.

We know the Catholic religion played a deep role in shaping the morality of guys like O'Banion and Bugs Moran who looked down on pimps and hated em with a passion. They was really looking down their nose at the likes of Torrio. "I really rubbed that pimps nose in the mud" he said after one altercation with Torrio.

Rose O'Keefe who done the book 'The One That Got AWay' about the Bugs Moran life story also said she heard that Bugs Moran went to a priest in the clink to confess his sins to the father before he died.

John Francis is also said to have confessed his crimes in a bid for absolution before he died and Sheeran didn't think he was a rat for doing so. Sheeran, an old man looking back on his life also obviously had regrets and maybe he felt the need to unburden himself before he passed through to the other side who knows? He indicates that was somethin to do with it.

How important was religion to the older generation of mob guys? How important is it today? When Lou Ferrante converted he says in the book that a coupla old wiseguys says "2,000 years of superiority down the drain' but the thing with that Lou fella he even looks Jewish. lots of Jews and Italians look alike and they worked better together than most ethnic groups at one time you could argue.

Also how would someone be viewed for confessing their sins before the end, like Corleone in the Godfather 3? I spose if it's a priest it's one thing but to the law it's another.

Oh and how would it go down a made guy announcing "Hey skip, I'm changing my religion". Would anyone give a shit? I'm thinking joining the muslim brotherhood wouldn't go down so well but how about the Jews? That wouldn't be so bad, right? Would that much be acceptable in these rainbow days of love, unity and togetherness?

My guess would be most of them are not religious at all. They keep some cultural things from Catholicism but it's a safe bet almost no made guys will be at mass or anything like that. Most probably are apathetic or don't believe in god.

The Sopranos had good episodes on this.
Tony and Paulie talking about religion was funny.

Tony: If you were a Hindu you would go to hell for eating beef.

Paulie: I never even been to India, what the fuck do I care?

Tony: Thats what i'm saying. All this stuff don't mean shit.

The Catholic Church, which has had a very dominant position in Italy for many hundreds of years, and the Mafia in Sicily is indeed a weird combination. I beleive, especially among the early Mafia members, the worship of Catholicism was genuine. Every religious person interprets the religious message differently and uniquely. To some extent, maybe, the Mafia members praid to god before carrying out a successful murder assaignment. I don´t know, but perhaps the weird combination of being a religious follower of Cathollicism and a Mafia member at the same time can be explained by the sacrament of confession which is highly revered by Catholics. And of course often taken advantage of.

Joe Profaci, for example, was an extremely religious person. One of his brothers was a priest, a sister was a nun and he had very strong ties to the Catholic Church in Brooklyn. Salvatore Maranzano had studied to become a priest at the same time he was "studying" to become a mafioso. It doesn´t look like they were ever bothered by the fact that they actually were committing sins. Perhaps they didn´t look at their transgressions as sins?

According to several accounts, there have been priests in the Mafia...full fledged members. I doubt they went around killing and stealing but they certainly enjoyed and took advantage of Mafia membership. And vice versa of course, the bosses prospered with having priests in their ranks.

CarloRizzo- Yeah it's a cultural thing more so for the younger generation and though I know lots of Catholics very few I would describe as choirboys so I don't doubt that most criminals full stop let alone mob guys are not exactly going to be upstanding pillars of the Catholic faith.

Funny you should mention the Sopranos cos religion played a big part in the plot and with the priest staying over with Carmela okay Tony was not much into religion but anybody but a priest spends the night with Carmela they gonna get their ass kicked.

In all the mob flicks it's always there. The priest in 'On The Waterfront' was based on a real life priest fighting corruption on the west side docks and then of course the James Cagney and Pat O'Brien playing the priest in the flick 'Angels With Dirty Faces' where he squeals going to the chair in order to save the deadbeat kids.

In practically every mob flick or TV show there is always a scene in the Church at the wake and the priest is always there. In the Irish mob flicks they always seem to be guzzling the altar wine or drowning someone in a pool of Bushmills in the fountain (or Dennis Leary do anyway) and it is always there in the background.

Yeah it is an aspect thats always there and the point I was drivin at is that the older you get the more you are likely to take check of your life and wonder about the things you did and how they gonna impact on your fate. Most of us most likely do even if we ain't no stone cold gangster so carrying this burden must weigh heavily before any criminal as they come to meets their end.

How much sympathy I wonder is there for guys who repent not to save their ass but to save their soul?

I didn't know the history went that far back. That puts a whole other context on this. I hadn't realized the ties run so deep but in Italy I guess that is one big heavy duty institute. Faith is strong there too from what I notice of looking at pictures. I don't know much about Sicily I gotta be honest but I imagine those ties must be real strong.

Thats a good historical perspective. The heart of it lies in Sicily and I had no idea Maranzano studied to become a priest. There's definitely a strong link there.

I wonder how religious Chin Gigante was. His brother Louie was a Roman Catholic priest! The irony, huh?

Lol, Exactly. I saw that episode yesterday (watching it again), and Tony says to Carmela: "You're only religious when it suits you". Couldn't be more right.

I could have sworn that I remember reading a mobster being whacked in the not too distant past and one of the issues that led to the decision was that he became deeply religious in a fairly unexpected, rapid fashion. The decision makers involved were concerned that he might 'confess his sins' to the wrong person. Don't quote me on it and I can't remember who, what, or when, but I could swear that this happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ought-flip.html

Found it, Robert Perrino

Perrino was the NY post delivery guy, right?

I remember that well. But it was a pretty long time ago. I'd say early '90s?

Can you believe this a guy below the line says "At least he died after making witness to the Lord his God". Thats one way of putting it. Thats also one hell of a way to send a message. Make peace with the past and say goodbye to your future.

Thats rough.

I guess in some ways it don't matter who you are if your repentance has the potential to implicate other guys, other guys could get hurt then its easy to see how some guys could get real pissed at someone seeking absolution for their sins.

Great article...that Vinny Basciano is someone you got to respect. He certainly isn't God's favorite either.

Tony Spilotro asked to say a Novena before he died but wasn't able to before they beat the shit out of him. Anyone who makes that request is probably religious (or thinks they are), regardless of the sins they commit on a regular basis.

I believe one of Joe Lombardo's brothers (want to say Nunzio) worked at Holy Rosary for a long time.

Father Gigante (brother to Vincent and Mario) did more to improve the quality of living in the housing projects of the Southwest Bronx than any clergyman in the history of New York City. Fact.

Unfortunately, since Father Lou retired the SEBCO buildings have fallen into disrepair. But that just goes to show how much he brought to the project. My point is, you can't condemn a guy for being related to someone. If you believe in such things, then sure, Vince is in hell and Mario's probably heading there too. But there will be a special place in heaven for Father Lou.

[/quote]My point is, you can't condemn a guy for being related to someone. [/quote]

Ahmen. That is a great statement.

Well I'm a pretty smart guy .

Welcome to the boards, buddy .

Didn't Father Gigante repeatedly front for his brother and claim that that Vincent wasn't a mobster and was too mentally ill to stand trial? Both of which are well-known lies today? I don't mean to condemn the man, as I would have probably done the same things for my family.

Yes, but it's apples and oranges. And it hardly negates all of the good that he's done for the poor and homeless of New York City.

I'm not a theologian, but generally knowingly and intentionally covering up the crimes of a mass-murder like Vincent is generally considered a pretty terrible sin.

I know that John Gotti was refused a Catholic burial by a Bishop in New York. I believe Paul Castellano was also.
The guys routinely break almost all of the 10 commandments and never attend mass or anything, so you'd think they are all irreligious, but then fairly often you hear that one of them went to confession or something before they died.

I read that Demeo had gone to confession when he felt he was about to get whacked.
I bet that priest heard some shit...

Fascinating. Brings the burning of a saint in ceremony into focus. Just learned from NE1 that Capone had new guys place their hands on the Bible.


... side note, HK. You never cease to amaze with your erudite scholarship. If only there were a chair in International LCN Studies...

Look, Nicky, I understand where you're coming from. Gangsterism and hypocrisy go hand and hand. I wouldn't piss on most of these guys if they were on fire. But in this particuclar case, Priests take a vow to take people at their word, in the confessional and elsewhere. So who's to say that Vincent didn't tell his brother something like, "I'm a gambler but not a killer." He would have to believe him even if he wasn't his brother.

And to make a family analogy, what mother doesn't believe her son in such an instance? I mean, I made some terrible mistakes as a younger guy thirty years ago. I looked my mother in the eye and said, "It's not true, Ma." She chose to believe me because it was less painful than the reality. I'm only making this correlation because it can be the same with brothers. Perhaps Father Lou made himself believe Vincent because the reality was too painful.

I know the man all my life, and I just personally believe that he believed that his brother wasn't what the media and the FBI said he was. Not because Vince wasn't a murderer, but because Vince told him he wasn't a murderer.

Joseph (Joe Brewster) DeDomenico was allegedly whacked for becoming a "born again Christian" by the Scarpa crew. Carmine Persico gave the orders "if he found God, it is time for him to join God."

Well I feel for the guy. I mean his role is to do the work of God not be the word God as absolute. Just cos he be a priest does not mean he is not as vulnerable to the deception of a crook as the next man.

In some ways he is more vulnerable. I mean part of faith is just that faith, believing the best in people. And as big a flaw as that is it was also his biggest blessing as a man who did much work to relieve poverty in the projects and it would take a harsh man to pass verdict on him cos of that.

Good points raised there PB.

Eminem the rapper has become one of these too so I hear. Is this the racket where they clap the tamborine and you have to pass over all your earthly materials to the cult?

Maybe they thought the born agains were moving in on their turf? Maybe they thought they had to put the poor fuck out of his misery?

Either way that's some cold shit and it goes to show how sensitive a topic religion can be to some people one way or the other.

Thank you. Glad to hear that but calling me a scholar is a far stretch. A bookworm? Maybe...

The post above should not be taken as a fact but rather as an opinion/thought of mine. The subject is interesting. To my knowledge, the subject (Catholicism and the Mafia) has not been discussed or touched upon enough by Mafia writers or Mafia historians which is a shame, in my opinion.