what happened right after marys death?

i wanna know what u guys think. im curious as to what exaclty happened in the time between right after marys death and the time that michael died. what happens to the rest of the characters and what does michael do? does vinnie stay as the role of the don? does connie become more powerful? they just missed a whole big chunck outa gf3!

Probably vince took over with (IMO) connie as consiglieri (if that's possible ofcourse, a woman as counselor) because connie is at that point the best.

You're right, it makes one wonder what happened after Mary's death... but do we need to know what happened to Vincent, Connie, etc.?

The Trilogy was about Michael, how his actions and decisions as Don brought to ruin his world and his relationship with his loved onces, and he paid for his sins with the death of Mary. Nothing needs to be said in between Mary's death and his own. 'What did Michael do?' after Mary's death. The terrible, terrible price that Michael paid for his actions in life haunted him forever, and drove him to dying a lonely and bitter old man. That's what happened.

'What becomes of Vinnie, Connie etc. ?' I liked Part III, but I felt one of it's chief failings was that Vincent, despite Garcia's worthy preformance, Vincent as a character, was a little under-developed. I mean, no sooner then we learn Sonny has illegitimate kid, what is done with him? Not much, we know he's a bit of a hothead and a wise guy, and desires to rise up in the family business, and is using Mary for this. But I mean... where has Vincent been all this time? Why hasn't Michael, Tom, ANYBODY, mentioned him 'till now? How did The Family react when they learnt of his existence? How many people knew? ...stuff like that. Do I care much when Vinnie becomes Don Corleone? No, as the whole time through Part III we see Michael trying to move out of that role, and Michael, when we come to Part III, hardly has the hallmarks of one who is a Don. Making Vincent the Don didn't really lift the burden of the family's crime dealings from Michael, as we saw from Mary's death. The aspect of Michael's life came back to haunt him, no matter how hard he tried to escape from it. So Vincent becoming Don wasn't that big a deal to me.

Now perhaps Vincent can be developed further in a Part IV, but it's my belief we don't NEED a Part IV, as I've explained elsewhere, and anyway, I feel Vincent's character, where we left him at the end of Part III, isn't interesting enough to carry a film alone.

And we don't need Connie where there's no Michael. Connie, like Kay, Mary, Anthony, and Vincent are characters whose sole purpose is to contribute to Michael's story in Part III, as he struggles for family legitmacy and strives for redemption. And with Michael's death, the story is over. I feel Connie, Kay etc. are no longer good and interesting characters if they are not there solely for being part of Michael's world.

Yeah, it makes one wonder what became of Vinnie up to Michael's death... but it's not essential information IMO.

Sorry... but best at what? Nothing in any of the three films, (at least comes to mind), that Connie possess a natural feel for dealing with the Corleone's criminal affairs. In Part III, her sole drive as a character was to encourage Vincent to become Don, which is why we see her for the first time taking part in these sort of affairs.

Puzo's novel tells us Connie was very close to her father, a sort of "daddy's girl" if you will. I always thought Connie was helping Vincent, because not only did he remind her of her own father, ("You're the only one with my father's strength"), but she probably hoped Vincent's reign as Don would see a return to the glory days of when her father was in charge. Because then Connie would feel safe, as she did before her marriage to Carlo and when the Don was shot - when her world began to crumble. At least that's how I see it.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Talia Shire's portrayal as Connie in all the films, though personally I would find it unusual to see her as a consglerri, and suddenly playing a pivotal part in the Corleone criminal affairs.

i think connie should be an important role as it was her who gave vincent a nudge to get involved in he family and become the don. connies role has grown each time there has been a new gf so maybe it could grow again. and really, shes played three different characters in one..the shy wife who gets beaten up, the one who dresses up like a posh slut and goes with loadsa men and doesnt give much of a damn about her kids, and the power hungry witch. maybe she could pull off a fourth character if the script is written well...talia is capable. maybe she becomes even more strong and doesnt cry as easily as she seems to. she becomes more involved in the mafia part and maybe becomes vincents consiglieri...and maybe seeks loadsa revenge coz she finds out that it was michael who killed fredo and ends up getting killed herself?

Well, can you tell me who the heck then could be consiglieri. One who can support Vince and has been a long time with the family and has been trough a lot? Maybe Neri. But nobody else I think.

BTW she knows how to help the family. Doing everything in favor of the family. Remember how she helped Michael by saying that "Poor Fredo was drowned" although she knows the whole truth. And how she killed Altobello. It was the best for the family. So I don't have any objections against her.

yeh i think ur right mmfloors. i think connie should be consiglieri, she is the only family member left that wants to have some power. i dont think neri would make a good consiglieri because i dont think he is as power hungry as connie.

Yes, I would agree on this point. Connie is obviously an important individual in Vinnie's life and she could serve as a confidant of sorts sort of like the way in Part II when Mike talks to Mama about Vito. And yes, I'm sure Talia is more than capable! She's brilliant!

But think of it... we don't know an awful lot about Vinnie's life before his appearance in Part III! IF there's a Part IV, Vinnie could have an old friend or even a male family member (that he previously been friendly with, maybe even Connie's son!), which we've never seen before as his consiglieri. (Though I do admit it'd be a bit of a stretch to have yet another new character introduced).

Connie showed no interest in trying to make her way up in The Family business, she's a strong personality certainly, which helps her to cope with things like Mike murdering Fredo, but we saw her in Part III trying to encourage Vinnie to get in Michael's favour and become Don. This was because she loved him, and believe Vincent was "the only one with my father's strength."

Did Michael Really die? We are led to believe it, but since he was a diabetic, how about he suffered another stroke? Alone? While in bed he dreams of the time he went to Sicily to bring back Turi Giuliano, and we re-present the book in movie form the way that it should have been originally. The Sicilian was also a great piece of heroic literature. Not entirely representative on the subject matter, but well written never the less.

yeh michael does die at the end...francis said he did. and i think if it was another diabetic stroke, he would have moved alot more and shaken about.

You are so correct! I referred back to the jacket of GF3 and there it is "The Death of Michael". Damn! My grandmother passed away in front of me from the same type of stroke and it was almost as quiet as what we saw on the screen, there are no set rules on how that type of stroke effects people. I am really set on seeing "The Sicilian" on the big screen, done properly. They really massacred it previously.

Hey, with all the remakes through the years, chances are someone would eventually want to remake 'The Sicilian' better.

All of the Godfather movies ended with Michael so i'm glad it didn't end with a shot of Vincent.

By the time of GF3 Vincent is the only relative that is capable of continuing the Corleone family IMO. He may not be as patient as Michael but there are no others who would be up to the task.

He has a lot of Vito's qualities - he cares about the people of his neighbourhood and is loyal and protective of those he cares for. He does have Sonny's temper but he also has absolute respect for Michael and wants to do his part for the family. He refers to Michael as the 'saviour of the family' and you get the impression he wants the security of the family to be ensured.

I'm in two minds about GF4, I love the trilogy and would like to know about what happens afterwards but I'm also someone who believes the whole GF saga is about Michael Corleone.

Connie? Definetly not. I'd say Neri...

I dont understand why michael himself cant be consiglieri after vincent becomes the don.
michael himself after all got council from his father when he become the don.

But during GF3, Michael shows a clear disinterest in the criminal aspect of the Family business, which makes him turn the leadership of the Family over to Vincent and it makes Michael vulnerable to his enemies later in the film. This is not the same Michael who is always one step ahead of his enemies like in the last two instalements, this is an embittered old man struggling for redemption and forgiveness from his loved ones.

And I would imagine Mary's death would turn him off forever from having anything to do with the Corleone's criminal affairs.

Hi!

By the way, where was Michael when died (Sicily, I suppose) and how much time passed between Mary's death and Michael death?

Vincent was a power hungry, snotty hot-head, pseudo-business man who used Micheal and Connie to attain power of the criminal affairs. When he speaks with Don Altobello: "enjoy the opera, it's all been taken care of!" and walks away. I believed at first he would betray Micheal. He clearly does not want to save the family. He wants to control it and use it, for his benefit.

Connie believes that he's the only one left in the family with her father's strength, and frankly I don't know where she sees Vito's strength in Vincent.

Turi. I am almost done with The Sicilian. I should have finished it by now. I've had it for a year and two months, the local library supposedly has wanted it back for about 6 months, or more.

What is so bad about the movie? Is it not worth watching? I love the dark mood of the story.

Sorry... but best at what? Nothing in any of the three films, (at least comes to mind), that Connie possess a natural feel for dealing with the Corleone's criminal affairs. In Part III, her sole drive as a character was to encourage Vincent to become Don, which is why we see her for the first time taking part in these sort of affairs.

Puzo's novel tells us Connie was very close to her father, a sort of "daddy's girl" if you will. I always thought Connie was helping Vincent, because not only did he remind her of her own father, ("You're the only one with my father's strength"), but she probably hoped Vincent's reign as Don would see a return to the glory days of when her father was in charge. Because then Connie would feel safe, as she did before her marriage to Carlo and when the Don was shot - when her world began to crumble. At least that's how I see it.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Talia Shire's portrayal as Connie in all the films, though personally I would find it unusual to see her as a consglerri, and suddenly playing a pivotal part in the Corleone criminal affairs. [/b][/quote]I think the point you've all missed in this thread is that is that by the begining of GF3 Connie IS consigliere. Michael's Got BJ running his business affairs, but he pointedly leaves the room when anything criminal is being discussed and at that point Connie always takes over. For example when Michael is in the hospital Neri only goes along with the hit on Zaza when Connie gives the go ahead. Thus donoting her semi-accepted role of being in charge when Michael's out of the picture. Also, she's the only one who needs to be asked twice wheter she understands when Michael's expressing his displeasure at the hit on Zaza

Hold on... we never saw that happen! When did we see Harrison leaving the room when Michael started discussing criminal matters? Yeah, he was never around, and yes, that probably does mean he was only the family lawyer, but I don't recall such a scene. Making you're thinking of Tom in GF2...

Connie wants Vincent to be in charge of the family because she loves him, he's her nephew, she really believes he'd be best to take care of the family. Remember how it was implied she was closest to her brother Sonny? She sees Sonny in Vincent, and I'm betting thats what makes her believe Vincent "is the only one with my father's strength."

The hit was Zasa... remember how Michael was VERY annoyed with Connie in the hospital scene? Yeah, he's annoyed with Al, but he's REALLY pissed with Connie. She's his sister, she's the one who's cared for him all these years, and now she's getting in on his business when he's not around. The look he gives her, is saying "Look, you had never anything to do with these criminal affairs before? What gives you the right to do now? WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT NOW?"

Yeah, she knew Zasa was running the neighbourhood, "like a disgrace", but what did she say next? "...that's what the other women tell me." The other women. Like those two old ladies who talk to Vincent, who live in Corleone territory, that's how Connie knew, she more than likely has friends in the Corleone territory. And here is where she saw Vincent, a man like the father, the brother she loved, has an opportunity to get in "Uncle Mike's" good books.

And from there, nothing else implies Connie has a position in the criminal organization of the family because she's hasn't.

The scene I'm refering to is the one which occurs right after Zaza tries to whack Vincent. When Connie and Vincent try to tell Michael that Zaza needs to be taken out he turns and looks at BJ who then leaves and only then does Michael begin to explain why Zaza is not a threat. As for her not being involved in family business, if that's so then why does Neri accept her go ahead on the Zaza hit? And why does Michael allow her to stay in the office during the whole ear biting affair? He knew what was going to be discussed. If Connie wasn't involved he would have told her to leave. He wouldn't let Hagen stay for the discusion with Ola in Lake Tahoe to demonstrate that he's not involved in family business. If the same were true of Connie I think similar action would be taken.

Of course Connie was allowed to stay, she was trying to help Vincent get a better position in Michael's organisation. As for Al... well, Connie is Michael's sister. With Michael incapcitated, perhaps Al wasn't sure that Mike would take too kindly to Al refusing to help Connie? Of course, Al is wrong, but that's how I saw it.

IMO, and i'm not sure if anyone else has agreed, i think vincent took over as head and descided it would be best to have al neri as his consigleri. neri after all was getting alittle older. if there were hits needed the lesser guys could take care of it. also i think connie was there to give advice on smaller issues. kay probably went into saclusion, and poor anthony full of rage quit the opera and became a lawyer.

I really believe that Connie is definitely second in command and anyone who says differently is looking too deep into it. The reason i think michael made her understand that he didnt approve of her decision to kill Zasa is to keep her power in check. it is clear that he is almost threatened by her and uses this to keep her under his thumb. he would have never gone along with her killing Altobello if she wasnt in power. As for where everyone went, i have a theory that Anthony went on to be manically depressed, kay died a lonely widow, and connie held animosity toward michael to her grave.