My Thoughts on Shelving

I think the mob's current shelving process, although technically nothing new, is purely brilliant. Why kill guys and have murder investigations hanging over your head? Why kill the poor guy period unless he did something that was just really fucked up and unforgivable, and not doing so would damage the Family’s reputation beyond repair? Plus you always have the option to take the guy/guys off the shelf, depending upon the seriousness of the offense.

Killing a guy nowadays is not the same as it was years ago.

You got DNA, video cameras everywhere,(outside of every business,traffic cams,Ring doorbells,cell phones,etc.)

Plus the newer generation of unprincipled Mob guys that will roll over to avoid a 10-15 yr prison sentence.

There are some cases that justify a death sentence,but only as a last resort.

It's an effective strategy I agree. The only downside to it for the Mob is that, at some point, it may encourage made guys to take more risks and stop respecting some key rules because they no longer fear a death sentence.

If the punishment is not too harsh, then people will naturally try to cross some of the Mob red lines.

That is why I believe, we'll soon see one or two mob murders which would serve as a wake up call to everybody.

i agree, it has removed the threat of murder related indictments and un needed attention for at times minor disputes or infractions. the best example i think recently was the shelving of cammarano et al in 2019. the reason why can be disputed, the lawyers trial strategy made mancuso look inept, but cammarano had made an attempt to seize control of the family while mancuso was in jail. more likely that was the reason. where else in mafia history has a member made even a lame attempt to take over and it not end with that member or several dead on the street. cammarano, zanocchio and the grimaldis all shelved and not a peep from them. despite of course some outlandish and unproven claims about a "mafia war brewing amongst bonannos" !!!

also a good strategy for those just released from prison if let out early. put on shelf for a few months remove suspicion he may have turned instead of letting a member come out and step right back into the mix.

good topic.

Same thing in Canada but are still murders.

I think once the old bosses have passed away and younger guys start taking over again you may see a lets say more aggressive and violent approach to handling "business matters." There are alot of guys in their 80s right now who would be looking at prison time if they were to order a hit.

It would be seriously stupid to do so. Even with the rats etc and on big money cases guys are getting like 5 years max. It was in gangland this morning actually that Chris chierchio is walking away with 30 odd mil and serving 5 years for it paying back something like 5mil of it. Add a violent crime or drugs to that and he’s getting 20+. And the guys who have been convicted of a violent crime in the last few years are all doing life, it makes no sense and anyone would be an idiot to take that risk.

Not even remotely the same thing in Canada. No laws like RICO, very lenient sentences including for murder, and to top it all off the province of Quebec in particular is completely corrupt; the cops, the judges, the juries, everything. Legally, it's still the 1950's in Quebec.

I was logging on to say exactly this. Furio, your post couldn't be more wrong. In Canada, they may catch the gang member who did it, but it stops there. The almost never catch the four Italian guys who passed the message to each other then down to the gang member. In the U.S., all of those guys get life because of RICO. See Crea, Steven. You get life for nodding your head. In the U.S., you can flip and move to California or Florida. Where are you going to move in Canada, Winnipeg??

And even when they do get caught up there like with the Montagna hit through encrypted Blackberries, all of those guys are out of jail already! I don't even think the hitman got life!

The Michael Meldish hit definitely nailed the Lucchese administration, no doubt about that. But we have a few other unsolved 21st Century mob hits in the US. Yes there are cameras, witnesses, & rats everywhere, but it would be a mistake to think that every future potential hit will be solved with the same quickness as the Michael Meldish and Gino DiPietro hits. The Meldish case was weak also, shouldn't have even ended the way it did. Anthony Nicodemo on the other hand might as well have just killed the guy and took him to the police himself, that's how dumb that hit was. He probably would've even gotten caught in the 1970s.

winnipeg is lovely in february.

And before anyone says it, yes I realize that the actual triggerman in the Gino DiPietro hit hasn't been caught yet. But it was still sloppy.

The Mobsters up in Canada are just a different breed it seems like. I really don't think going to prison bothers them all that much like it does here.

The feds offered a bounty for information an Nicodemo was caught because was the driver and used his own car but at least didnt flip and have a wife and sons.

It’s possible to get away with but in what situation today is the risk worth the reward? Kill a rat? They’re probably only gonna help put you away for 5 years, maybe 10 if you’re doing severe crimes non violent. Kill them you risk life. Kill someone out of principle or money issue or cause they called your wife fat, that worth life in jail lol?

No Brovelli, I don't think it's worth it. Just saying that not every mob hit out there will be solved as easily as the two I mentioned. Life is actually full of irony. For instance, Chris Chierchio stole $30 million and got 5 years, Salvatore Pellullo & Nicky Scarfo Jr only stole $12 million and got 30 years. Not every case or every instance or story will have the same ending.

What I want to know is , why the fuck do they just leave the bodies in the streets when they do mob hits? Why don't they take them and chop them up? Thats what the Outfit did with Zizzo and no one has ever been charged as he's still declared missing.

Exactly Rush, everyone should just disappear nowadays, but still only kill as last resort.

In this soft world we're living in these days, shelving guys might cause them to flip and turn state's evidence because their little feelings are hurt.

I know its a tv show but even Tony Soprano and his crew knew you had to chop up the bodies.

Better use the acid like did the Sicilian Mafia.

Yes.

There's an interesting observation by Mario Puzo in 'The Godfather' (the book). He explains why Tessio can't get a pass, why Carlo can't get a pass, from Michael--because a man who has been so utterly reduced to begging for his life is never going to go away--at some point he'll seek revenge, go to the cops, do something stupid to incriminate himself. In Puzo's novel, keeping a traitor around is just asking for chaos.

The problem is Yes it’s 2024 but i think if they didint leave so Many bodies in the Street and just Buried them I don’t think there would of been so Many rats and informants

How bad are the “many” rats hurting them compared to what one big murder case would do? Non comparable in my eyes the level of impact it would negatively cause them.

I feel some people on here are blood thirsty which is bizarre for a bunch of pussies typing on a computer (as I’ve said before no offense I’m one of them) but I guess it’s easy to suggest other people kill someone from your laptop eh

Are you Referring a Pussy to me ? For making a Point ?

I’m saying that I see a lot on this forum people talking about how they should deal with rats and hide the bodies etc “is there gonna be a mob hit this year thread”. I personally don’t take that stuff too lightly so I find it interesting that people can sit on a forum and suggest murdering people is a good idea.

In relation to the mafia yes I am referring to us all as pussies behind a computer, particularly when it’s people suggesting others i.e. mobsters should be murdering rats. I get the impression some people on here are wishing it to happen which I find strange. But anyway just my viewpoint/observation

The problem is the mob culture in America has changed. Canada still has the same technology we have here, DNA , all of that. The guys up there are not afraid to whack someone and use violence to conduct business.

I guarantee you up there people are afraid and for that you don't see many rats up there do you? Nope you do not because they know there are consquences unlike here in America. I'm honestly not sure why the mob here is afraid to use violence. It goes much deeper than RICO and all that shit. Part of the reason is that cops are not on the payroll of mobsters anymore here in America like they once were, but in places like Canada they are. When the mob was killing people here in America they had entire police departments working for them. Now you may have a few corrupt cops but not enough to really allow the mob to whack people left and right or even whack people to begin with.

The mob has become very civilized and involved in legit business here in America and that is a problem also which carries over to the way they conduct business.

It’s an interesting comparison with Canada. I dont follow the Canada stuff that closely but Canada they are heavily involved in drugs right? Whereas in the US they have avoided being the leader in that business likely to their own financial loss. Drugs being a worldwide criminal business and so volatile and competitive it has consistently had a lot of murder. In Canada is it Italian groups killing each other or are there multiple ethnic/general crime groups involved? I assume multiple

Like I said its the businesses that the mob is involved in here that plays a role in them choosing the way they conduct business.

Look at guys like Tommy Pitera. He was a stone cold killer because he was involved in the drug trade at a very intense and stressful level.

Yea and where has he been stuck since the 80s lol…

As a mob boss I'm putting my money into legit businesses in 2024. I mean lets be realistic, are we really gonna do this shit and have these headaches making decisions that are going to put us in prison within 5-10 years? I'll be smart enough to be involved in rackets that they would need a shitload of evidence to put me away. Murder and drugs are off limits in my opinion if I'm thinking about this with a clear head.

Yea and that’s my interest in the future of it. If that’s the way they are going and continue to go then what are they? Trying to become the Freemasons? I think there always will have to be an element of seediness/criminality for them to be what they are. But if they just become a bunch of legitimate guys going to work, can they survive as an entity or will it just die a death? I imagine the latter particularly as the “pure blood” Italian pool will only get more depleted than it already is but they are in a strange position right now. To be a criminal enterprise really they gotta get involved in drugs (I can’t think of any other major illegal rackets unless they start recruiting computer nerds to hack)

I"ll choose sex over drugs anyday if I want to stay out of the can. Just don't get into underage bullshit and you will be fine.

High End Escorts that meet with guys who have tons of money is a great money maker and will always be in demand.