Why did the mob become weak?

It's confusing to me as to how guys who would kill like me and you stomp on an ant, magically one day sat around and said "Im just not gonna kill anymore because its bad for business."

Wtf? I mean a killer just cant turn off the switch that easily. Makes me wonder if the guys running the mob now even ever killed anyone to begin with during their life. It makes me believe all those guys are in prison for life, deceased, or so old they arent capable of pulling the trigger anymore. Is there anyone on the street right now currently working for the mob that have carried out a hit?

Thoughts?

I agree, at some point the "bad for business" excuse is just played out. Like those guys should've at least taken a ball bat to the knees for testifying against Romanello. It I was a member of LCN, I don't think I could sleep at night after reading everyone saying that other groups are so much bigger and badder and more prepared to use violence and do the time for their gang. It would eat at my pride on a constant basis.

What are you talking about dude? They didn't kill for satisfaction, if someone kills for pleasure/excitement/sexual pleasure,he is deranged person and usually can't stop , for organized crime its just business. And the goal is to make money and main important thing to stay free, you can't stay free if you start killing in 2023. Your questions are just out of this world.

Definitely don't kill for satisfaction, I get you. But at one time bosses had enough rabid dogs on a leash who did just that. That was just the cost of having capable guys, you had to have some real sickos under your thumb to get a point across. There's just too many rats nowadays. Guys are even flipping in gambling cases and other cases without much violence, imagine what they would do when murder enters the equation. It's actually rare for guys to get the maximum sentences that guidelines call for, or even close, but it's the "maximum" amount of time that spooks them into flipping.

I still say that they can't be soft forever, eventually that bubble is gonna burst. It's the nature of the criminal business.

"My crew is stronger than your crew" and you lose sleep over comment like that? You should talk to someone if that makes you mad enough to cause insomnia.

With that mentality you wouldn't last 5 years on the street.

I get you Strax, maybe that's a really immature and boneheaded way of looking at it, sometimes you really do just have to take it on the chin and keep going.

Its not just in the US, here in Europe its same, you start killing and acting like a rabid dog , you are done.

Here we had one big group that controlled everything for past 10 years, that group had state behind them , going around with presidents son , meeting with top politicians and so on. One part of that group was super violent , people were going missing every month , there are photos of them cutting their heads, arms, torturing them and so on. Everyone were afraid of them ,you see them in the clubs/restaurants you don't dare to look at them. You know where they are now? Doing 40 years to life. Other part of the group ? Still free and doing business.

Once you start killing or doing 'lupara bianca' (missing without trace). You generate heat, when you generate heat , newspapers will write about you, once that happens , you are done.

I think people expect every crime group to be like Mexico, but in Mexico and other cartel-run countries they can get away with it. They can kill and kill and kill and still be okay. In civilized 1st-world nations the dynamics change a lot.

As a killer you just cant turn the switch off because its bad business. Cmon!!!

Strax if I asked you to go whack a guy because of a business debt, could you do it?

If you were a killer and I asked you to stop killing people, could you agree to that and be a nice decent alter boy?

Name me some current guys on the street below 65 who have whacked someone.

Not killing is bad business? Worst that that can happen to you is to end up in prison and that will happen once you start killing.

You don't kill people because of a business debt, because that way you lose all the money, you harass them until they pay. You are trolling or just ..well special.

Ask that to James DiForti. Guy owed $100,000. He took the matter in his own hands and killed the motherfucker! You obviously dont have what it takes to be a killer.....

"According to the prosecutor, when DiForti went to Benham's office to demand the money, ``DiForti said that Benham told him that he wasn't going to pay and then threatened to go to the feds.''

When the quarrel turned violent, Dorner said, Benham was shot six times. His body being found later on the floor behind his desk. Because of the trail of blood leading from the office and the discovery of a small caliber gun next to his body, investigators suspected that his assailant had not escaped unscathed."

One thing I know for sure, infighting and killing for the top spot is the dumbest move a Family or organized crime group could ever make. Look at what happened to the Colombos, 30 years after the last conflict ended they still haven't recovered. Infighting practically wiped the Rochester Mafia out of existence, and fighting Danny Greene is the main reason the Cleveland Mafia is almost if not fully nonexistent today. Even the Bonanno Family, when they avoided a war by smoothly taking out the 3 rebellious captains. Sure, they got away with it for a long time, but it came back to bite them in the ass 20 years later. Imagine if the early-2000s indictments came down on the Bonannos without those 3 murders looming over their heads? They'd be in a little bit better shape today I think. Also, they could've avoided the Gerlando Sciascia murder. Also, bosses killing for little to no reason at all, like Vittorio Amuso/Anthony Casso of the Lucchese Family and Nicodemo Scarfo of the Philadelphia Mafia, those 2 Families also haven't been the same since. The Stanfa/Merlino war also didn't do the Philly mob any favors.

You don’t say? Here i am working as a software engineer thinking about career change, being a hitman. You destroyed my dreams man

Not about destroying dreams.

You are nit a killer and cannot comprehend why it would be impossible to stop killing because its a bad business decision. Killers do not give a fuck about taking another mans life , it makes them feel good , a rush! Slicing the throat of someone who fucked you over is pure satisfaction!!!

It's hard to compete against a federal law enforcement that tells murderous members of a crime syndicate: "Look, we don't care how many people you killed, you tell us everything we wanna know, you walk. The most you will do is 5 years!" Or even worse, if you're like Bingy Arilotta, you get your freedom after ratting down instead of ratting up! From what I understand he was the main instigator and got his get-out-of-jail free card for ratting out his underlings who weren't even made! And you expect these guys to go back to killing any time soon?

The good question could be "why the mob was so powerful?"

They was the first oc gruop with a clear hierarchy based on secret codes. A borgata is the same from NY to LA. They controlled unions and spread to street rackets to while collar crimes.
The italians was less integrated and the mob had his strongholds in the various little italies.
Plus the FBI under Hoover wasn't able to infiltrate the mob and there was no RICO no witsec.
Now its more easy to flip and disappere in the witsec and no more of the young guys want to made long time in prison for the family for example Anthony Nicodemo get 25 y to life for be the gateway driver in Gino DiPietro hit but its an exception.
Now kill someonevis hard because there are cameras everywhere and LE have many informants that can easy put a target on the killer.
So they prefer made money and enjoy it that risk the life in prison.
And that why the rats can ealk in the pld hoods without fear to be killed.
In italy a ndraghetista killed and burned his wife because talked against the ndrina.

I don't think Anthony Nicodemo is the best example, he was begging to get caught! He has my utmost respect though.

Is an example Liggio.Today be trigger happy would led to sarious dameges,the feds will use all their resources to solve the case which will attract a lot of attention and a lot of money will be lost. For the american mafia would be better to make the bodies disappear in acid as is done in Sicily.

I agree

They don't kill even when a legitimate (in their minds) reason presents itself. The simple reason is they do not live in the streets anymore, in the ghettos. they're' soft end of it. the whole BS about camera's is BS. Thousands of murders a year in this country go unsolved. According to the FBI stats, in the 1960s homicides were solved nearly 90 percent of the time, in the 1990s the rate went down to 60 percent, in 2020 the solve rate was less than 50 percent, and closer to home the FBI says NYPD solve rate for murders was 27 percent (NYPD disputes this number). My point is the whole technology excuse is BS. The Mafia is soft, period. Ask Romanello when he gets sentenced why as a CAPO and didn't have anyone under handle the collection problem then for 6 years do nothing about the trial witnesses? Cause there isn't anyone. Just my opinion.

in the 1960s were solved 90% of homicides in the USA?

RICO, RICO, RICO and informants

In the U.S.,the guy who nods his head to order the hit goes away for life, the guy who passes the message goes away for life, the driver goes away, everyone goes away. It's too risky and guys don't want to do the time.

Well said and I agree. Like I said before if there were still killers in the mob you would see guys getting whacked. But today, the guys who have taken over never were killers to begin with, and the ones that are well they are now in their upper 70s and 80s. Do you really think they want to go to prison and die there by carrying out a hit? No.

We have guys in prison right now who are in their 80's and they will never see freedom ever again such as James Marcello whos in supermax. There is no one left anymore on the streets as the mob is now focused on white collar rackets with some stuff such as loan sharking and bookmaking to make money. Murders are not a thing with the new generation and regime of the families when it comes to handling business matters as they don't believe in it and are not capable of blowing someones head off.

Street gangs have largely replaced traditional organized crime outfits. There are allegations that some of these gangs have and are, extorting record labels and recording artists after providing finance and getting a piece of the operation, eventually taking it over completely.

Also hypothetically speaking if the mob was to arrange a hit they outsource to street gangs to pull the trigger or have a dealer give a guy some bad blow that is cut with something like fentanyl.

Guys,many blacks are so poor that sell dope or kill someone for few bucks and get long sentences is normale how to breathe! Same thing for the latinos.
The average wannabe want to make money and enjoy it! Do you know why many gang murders remain unsolved?
Nobody speak with the cops and the LE dont want to waste money and time for a street punk. The black gangs are full of wannabies and part of them are smart while the american mafia it's scraping the bottom of the barrel.
The italian americans can easly made money without the mob and the today associates are the worst.
The old times and maybe wiseguys born in the 1960s-1970s can handle the prison but must pay for the peotection while the blacks have their gangs in prison.
And last but not least:the media.
The Sopranos,the Mob Doctors and other film or TV series the people like mobsters.
Only in recent years was made tv series on bikers or blacks (apart The Wire in the early 2000s).

Mobsters back then weren't paying for protection. Carmine Galante once walked up to a black guy in prison and told him, Get off the phone you fucking ni**er, or something like that. Anyway, Italians are severely outnumbered in prison I don't even think the white prison gangs would recruit them.

That was in 1974,Gotti did the same thing and was punched. Scarfo sr when was in terre haute prison for 2 years paid the mexicans for the protection,stop watching Goodfellas.
In the prison there are only sharks and count the numbers a thing is if a young wiseguy can fight and another if is a old man. Be white dont means that every white will protect you.

killing little does not mean being less powerful in any case, there are very powerful groups such as the Ndrangheta, the Albanian clans, the Yakuza, the Triads that kill relatively little

Cosa Nostra in Sicily called off all murders and because of that they've regained quite a bit of power. Bernardo Provenzano even decided to welcome turncoats back in.

I don't give a fuck about Goodfellas, fact is Galante didn't give a fuck and called one that straight to his face. Gotti was already an old man and still didn't rat or run to protective custody after the incident, that gets you respect in prison.

Every single mobster in America right now could be in the prison system, and they would still be severely outnumbered. It has nothing to do with who's tougher it's easy to be tough when you're part of a big prison gang, or when you beat up old men like the guy who beat up Gotti.

But go the Aryans to get the man killed (ang Gotti was punched because didnt pay the protection) at Galante time nobody even the craziest ni**er would punch a wiseguy now is different. A wiseguy can easly killed by a guy with mental problem or a lifer that have nothing to lose.

The main reason the american mafia has weakened is quite simple: the decline of the italian american neighborhood. Of course law enforcement technology but to me, the traditional italian neighborhoods that were in major cities are now merely shadows of their former selves. You still have Italian area's but nothing like those old school blue collar hoods. BLM was protesting in South Philly for gods sakes! That never would of happened in the 80's-90's.

yes they lost the territories where they were rooted, the italian neighborhoods

Gotti was not punched due to not paying protection, and if Galante called a Black inmate the N word he would have been hurt. As for Italian neighborhoods disappearing being a reason, almost any area with a heavy Italian population had fewer and fewer people who would get involved. Times changed.

And lets not forget that most fathers who were involved in the life pushed their kids to become legit. Doctors, lawyers, restaurant owners and attorneys to name a few.

They put money behind them to go to college and have a nice life in the suburbs that would provide a good living crime free.

Galante did call a black inmate the n-word, this has been well-documented that he didn't give a fuck and respected no one in prison and was willing to serve whatever sentence thrown at him.

Italians assimilate well into American society, the Mafioso mindset has been pretty much bred out of 5th and 6th generation Italian Americans. Mark my words, future mob indictments are going to feature guys closer to the old country and not so far removed from traditional mob values.

Another thing also, so many Italian women now date guys that are not Italian. Same thing can be said of the Italian men. Back in the day that wasn't very common.

The new generations are just different. They don't really care about traditional Italian values.

We'll documented by rumor. No way a White inmate says that in prison, or says it and gets away with it.

Russians, Corsicans etc, more violence means more DISorganized Crime.

yes but it depends... sicilian mafia was very violent for a certain period but as the same time organized (Toto' Riina was boss of bosses)
Mexican cartels seem a bit disorganized

Sicilian Mafia was violent unless Riina passed the mark ordering to kill everybody and the State decided to react and after the maxitrial and the 41 bis and tons of rats,Provenzano understood that is better make money that kill people for every bullshit.
The cartels are in war from 1989 and after so many killing even the mexican state and the mexicans are seriously training to change the situation.

Weak is subjective… what criteria are we talking about and what other ethnic OC group has fared better?

Extreme violence is part of their business, but the better organized groups prefer corruption, like Escobar said "plata o plomo".

A powerful organization control the streets and kill everybody is a threat or obstacle to the organization,kill or try to kill the rats in the witsec fight with other gang for control of territory and rackets and have no fear to kill each organization members.

The sicilian mafia in the 1970s to early 1990s was like that! But at the end the violence almost destroyed it.
Now the american mafia is weak because doesnt kill the rats that turn back to the old hoods (last was mario riccobene murder in philly in 1993),dont try to kill the rats in witsec (last attempt was to kill Gravano in 1997),dont kill the gang member that kill a relative (a 15 y old nephew of a buffalo wiseguy was killed by a black gang and nothing happened),no retaliation for a made man death (frank cali's killer is still alive) and shelved instead kill people.
That is more objective.

Good question, I don't see them as weak. They are just so into legitimate businesses and many are college educated. Even the gangster types in the Mafia fit well into society, and are not out looking to kill people. They have been like this for a long time, no need for people to mention the occasional exception. When the 1930's and 1940's violence rate was high, even with other gangs, it was different. Those men faced poverty and many were imprisoned as teenagers. To compare them to those days, or call them weak because they are not out killing does not make sense. An 86-year old poked a guy who had been taunting him in phone calls and then in person, he just had that big trail and was found guilty
That is the biggest factor, the standards of law enforcement, We have more to fear from groups like ANTIFA than we do from not only the Mafia, but most other gangs.

Furio you make some good points. Regardless of how much money you're making or how smooth of an operation you're running, there are just some things that should never go unpunished. The guy who killed the relative of a Buffalo wiseguy should've been punished. Imagine if that was Tony Accardo's nephew? I don't wanna hear this isn't the 1970s or 80s, that's just an excuse. Same with the guy who killed Frank Cali. I'm all for not killing at the drop of a hat or whacking someone just for looking at you the wrong way, I'll be the first on this forum to say that the vast majority of mob killings were pointless and ridiculous, and in fact disastrous. But some things shouldn't go without retribution, I don't care if it's 1983, 2023, or 2083. Michael Meldish, the Luccheses were RIGHT in killing him (mob-wise, I'm not personally saying he deserved to die) if in fact he screwed wiseguys over 100K, even if it resulted in life sentences.

I think most of you make some good points. "The Life" or whatever you want to call it is very complicated.

There are plenty of options out there if they really wanted to follow through on it. You just can't let something like that go.

I think the guy that shot Cali was a skitzo or something so thats why no action was taken on him. If it would have been an actual mob hit I believe you definitely would have seen retaliation.

THE STORY OF THE BUFFALO MOB VS. THE BLACK MOB IN THE 90S: According to FBI records, recently-deceased Buffalo mob capo Frank (Butchie Bifocals) Bifulco once put out open murder contracts on an African-American crime baron and two of his enforcers he held responsible for the drug-related killing of his teenage stepson.Nobody collected, but it wasn’t for lack of trying. The government swooped in before the contracts were carried out. And as a result, Buffalo’s Italian mob and Black mob never went to war.

Bifulco died earlier this week of natural causes at the age of 76. Butchie Bifocals is alleged to have overseen all underworld activity on the city’s West Side for the Magaddino crime family throughout much of the past four decades.

Carmen Gallo, his 15-year old stepson, was brutally gunned down in a hail of automatic weapon fire on the night of May 12, 1993 by members of the WAG Boys, a Black drug gang operating out of the East Side of Buffalo. East Side drug kingpin Roy (Pee Wee) Highsmith ran the WAG Boys (Winslow Avenue Gang) and was the man BiFulco believed gave the order to murder Gallo, a punky, pintsized 5-foot-4, 100-pound teenage drug boss with his eye on achieving “made” status in his stepdad’s crime family as quickly as possible.

Gallo hailed from a rich Buffalo mafia lineage. His great grandfather, Joe (The Gyp) DiCarlo was Magaddino crime family consigliere in the late 1960s and early 1970s. DiCarlo’s dad had been one of the organization’s founding fathers. When BiFulco married Gallo’s mother, he took Gallo under his wing and was said to often speak with him about what he needed to do in order to get his button, per court documents.

One of those things was becoming an “earner.” From the time he was a little kid, Gallo was learning how to score. Pushing dope at Lafayette High School was a good start he was told and encouraged by BiFulco, according to future court testimony.

On the afternoon of May 12, 1993, Gallo and his partner in the high-school drug game, Eric Harkins, went to the city’s East Side to purchase drugs from WAG Boys lieutenant Jeff (Jazz) Culbreath. In exchange for free narcotics for his personal use, the 17-year old Harkins let Culbreath and WAG Boys enforcers Forrest (DMC) Miles and Michael (Middle Mike) Ridgeway use his Taurus for a crosstown drug run.

While they waited for the return of Harkins’ car, Harkins and Gallo did cocaine at an East Side trap house and at some point spoke with Pee Wee Highsmith and his brother and right-hand man, Lawrence (Larry Bird) Highsmith, about future transactions. Pee Wee Highsmith was allegedly offended at the way Gallo was speaking to him, according to informants. Gallo would often threaten to have people killed by way of his family connections to the Buffalo mob, per grand jury testimony.

Jazz Culbreath, DMC Miles and Middle Mike Ridgeway returned to pick Gallo and Harkins up at around 10:30 and told them they would drive them back to the West Side. Ridgeway was driving the Taurus, Miles was in the front passenger’s seat and Culbreath sat in the back with Gallo and Harkins.

Minutes into the car ride, Jazz shot Harkins with a double-barrel pistol and Miles opened fire with an AK-47 on Gallo. Both teenagers were blasted out of the vehicle and onto the pavement on Woodlawn Avenue. Gallo was killed instantly. Harkins survived the attack. Read the rest of this story; https://gangsterreport.com/the-buff...drug-boss-he-blamed-for-stepsons-murder/

Bifulco blamed Pee Wee Highsmith. He wanted Highsmith, Culbreath and Miles all killed and was offering $50,000 bounties for each hit, per informants.

Are any of the five families in New York allies of the Rizzuto family in Montreal? If so, Do they do business together in any way?

So apparently it wasn't for lack of trying. Reading your original comment Furio I got the impression that they didn't even try.

The point is that when Buffalo family was more powerful,the blacks that killed bifulco nephew would be whacked by the wiseguys not offering a bounty on his heads. But in the 1990s the Buffalo mob was so weak that dont had the force to start a war against the gang.In the 1950s Bifulco would order to his crew to find and kill the blacks,whatever would happen.

True for a mafioso so many things are not permitted if it's in violation of his obligations as a "man of honor".

In Italy is different many men become crazy in 41 bis regime.

The US factions may have been weakened, 'Ndrangheta, Cosa Nostra and Camorra are still very powerful.

You're exactly right Hollander, in future American mob busts we're going to see more and more "off-the-boat" Italians featuring prominently. It's already happening, just look at the recent Gambino bust. There's no more American recruitment pool to draw from.

List your current made guys who never would have been made 30-40 years ago due to being considered weak.

Yes 41bis is inhumane IMO, but there is no other way to keep the bosses from still running their families and even at maximum security units they still send messages
.

What I can't stand is when people compare the mob to Mexico, like people say, "they ain't got nothing on them boys in Mexico." Like quit comparing a 3rd world shit hole to a 1st world nation. I know technically it's not 3rd world in the sense of Somalia but compared to America it is. The cartels aren't exactly wholesale slaughtering people over here either. I don't see how you can compare criminal groups in America to groups in countries like Colombia or Mexico ridiculous.

They are whacking guys left and right In Canada. Canada is far from a 3rd world country.

Explain that.

The mob's biggest enemy isn't the FBI, it's the mob itself. Most of its wounds are self-inflicted. The 1990s Colombo War stands out in my mind the most. Vic & Gaspipe tearing the Luccheses apart due to paranoia. Same thing with Nicky Scarfo and the Philly mob. John Gotti and his love affair with the media. The 1980s Commission Trial did some damage, but the Families were still strong, it was the bozos that succeeded them, Chin Gigante and Joe Massino being the exception. Carmine Persico should've let Vic Orena have the reigns. John Gotti should've only conducted business on walk-and-talks and whispered while inside. Joe Massino had a great run, but he made some boneheaded mistakes as boss as well. This is why the mob is weak.

Rush, Canada is soft on organized crime. And Vito Rizzuto wasn't your typical Mafia boss. I also think the mobsters over there are more traditional and closer to their old country roots. And it's not just Italian organized crime, so many different groups up there that have a lot of power and money and influence. Guys also rarely get life sentences for murder. Organized crime up there needs another Vito Rizzuto, like desperately. A strong, charismatic figure who everyone loves, respects, and if need be fears.

The Siderno Group is well organized and strong, but they don't have an overall boss instead they have several charismatic leaders and are less flashy as the Montreal guys.

For example one bust in 2019 included 9 major crime figures: Angelo Figliomeni, Vito Sili, Nick Martino, Emilio Zannuti, Erica Quintal, Salvatore Oliveti, Giuseppe Ciurleo, Rafael Lepore and Francesco Vitucci.

American Mob is just a bunch of guys with Italian surnames.

How many of them really understand the history of cosa nostra or the culture that it came from ?

You're right Hollander, I should've zoomed it down to Montreal instead of saying Canada.

Thinking more about it I'll say it's ridiculous to compare either Mexico or Canada to the US. Nobody's killing like that in America, period! They know better! At least not in regards to organized crime syndicates. Maybe street gangs in Chicago but law enforcement don't really care about them. It's different when people are killing over "what you looking at" or what hood you're from than over rackets and when big money is involved.

Siderno group or Siderno Crime is still underrated IMO.

Siderno organized crime group in New York City', Intelligence Report [heroin] (1993), p. 1. 7 DEA, 'The resurgence of the Siderno organized crime group'

That's too simplistic, there are still members who have relatives in the old country who speak Sicilian.