How's it possible there's NO mob arrests anywhere?

How is it even possible that there are virtually NO mob arrests, NO mob indictments, in any of these former major organized crime strongholds?

New York City
Upstate New York
New Jersey
Connecticut
Philadelphia, PA
Providence, RI
Boston, MA
Chicago, IL
Detroit, MI
Miami, FL
Tampa, FL
Los Angeles, CA...and at least a dozen other cities; Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Pittston, Buffalo, etc.?

Even in NYC (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Staten Island, The Bronx, Queens,) long considered the benchmark and "ground zero" for organized crime in the United States, there's only been a trickle of generally boring - ho-hum indictments - in recent years. Indictments, that years ago, would have largely gone unnoticed because of the steady stream of interesting, complex major Mafia indictments being dropped daily on the heads of important mob figures?

You think the wiseguys are being more careful now, and thats the reason they're not getting pinched? LOL...I seriously doubt it. If anyone believes that fairytale, then there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell them.

It is extremely telling! And it is, without a doubt, indicative of their "current" state of affairs (if they even still have a state of affairs, lol) of whats left of organized crime nowadays...It seems they're quickly going the way of the American Buffalo and the Dinosaur.

You can liken whats left of today's organized crime's racket "pie" to a dead carcass, with no meat left on the bones whatsoever...And the fellas that remain are all trying to scrape those bare dry bones to eke out a few dollars. Hard to believe, yet true!

I never thought I'd see it in our lifetime.

Thee has been. What you expect one every day? Every week? Every month even?

No there hasn't! Not even close.

Certainly not like the "old days" of even 10-15 years ago. And no where close to back in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, or even 1990s.....

Lol, watch, when the next indictment comes out it will be like you never wrote this and you will pretend to know everything about everyone involved NYM I know you no offense though or anything against you.

Maybe they insulated themselves with lots of buffers . LOL

Joking aside your absolutely right. Given the population in many of the cities mentioned; there should be more OC activity.

Liggio, with all due respect, you really don't have a single solitary clue (whatsoever) about what you "attempt" to speak about. You really don't!

In fact, truth be told, you're usually way "out in space" somewhere with all your "theories" and assumptions.

And at this point, I'm gonna play it smart and just follow that wise old proverb that says, "Sometimes it is better to stay silent, than to dispute with the ignorant." - Pythagoras


But like you just said to me up above, "no offense though or anything against you" (LOL)

I think the rackets are more sophisticated these days, look at the healthcare fraud scheme that involved mob guys without any mention of the mob whatsoever in the articles. They're not out hijacking trucks or pulling off big armed robberies anymore. Look at the $100 million lottery ripoff involving those Genovese guys, those are the types of scores they're into now. I see what you're saying, but I think we're looking for all the wild cowboy crimes they used to pull off on a daily basis, yes those days are over.

Not doing many hits.

There are many arrests, but the mob is no longer as big as it was, not close. OC is now Mexican, Colombian, Asian, and mixed race groups. The mafia is at its strongest on internet forums.

^ Truth

Yeah, but take the drug business away from them and most of them will collapse.

What set traditional organized crime like the Mafia, Triads or Yakuza apart from later organized crime groups is that they were able to diversify their rackets and knew how to work themselves a way into the legitimate world. Even though later kind of organized crime groups do dabble in other rackets, the vast majority of their bread and butter comes from the drug trade with - especially for Asian and Eastern European groups - prostitution on the side. I'm really curious how long non-traditional organized crime groups will survive as functioning money making criminal enterprises when they won't be able to rely on the drug trade.

There have been mob indictments in recent times, in recent years. But how recent are we talking about? Yesterday? Everyday? Today? Every week? Month? Mob activity has drastically reduced compared to the days of old, but to somehow suggest that there has been absolutely nothing in recent times in absolutely absurd. The title says NO arrests anywhere, in all caps, and that's a bit of an overexaggeration.

@nymafia I don’t entirely agree with your perspective. Only 2 years ago the entire Columbo administration was taken down, there’s been nothing big this year but still maybe 5 or so cases? I don’t know what the comparison is to times gone by but if I’m in the mob I’m seeing it as a great thing that there’s fewer getting arrested. Even with all these guys on YouTube telling everyone exactly how it works there’s still not many arrests but we know there are still a good number of made guys out there. I think it’s all perspective whether we call them smart for being under the radar or that their weak. I expect not far off 50% if not more of their money is now legitimate, does that mean they’re dying or they’re being smart and setting themself up for some kind of future? I’m on the fence on the answer but it’s definitely interesting

If the FBI started finding dead bodies all over the place like it once was, I guarantee you would see indictments happening much more often. If Gambling was illegal then the same thing would happen but we are living in different times now.

Thats correct Fleming. In fact, they're not doing any hits.

Bingo! What you just said is right on the money TKJ (in so many ways.) 100% IMO

I still stick to what I said about the rackets being far more sophisticated and even more lucrative. Every now and then we're seeing big fraud cases and whatnot in the tens of millions and sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars. They're not chasing nickels and dimes anymore, with few exceptions I mean you'll always have your street thugs. The kind of rackets I'm talking about satisfies mob coffers for a really long time in one setting, and they don't require a lot of violence. The Goodfellas days are over.

Everyone here is entitled to his or her own perspective, obviously.

But the MAIN reason why you're not seeing many OC cases made anymore is because 90% of what they used to make a living from is either no longer feasible in todays economy and business world with the changing technology and law enforcement's sophistication, or its become completely legalized, so its no longer available to them as a revenue source.

Trust me when I tell ya, it isn't because street guys have become so ultra savvy, or have gone "under the radar," that they're not getting caught up in indictments.

Its because there are very few illicit and profitable rackets still available to them by which they can make a living. Otherwise, all the wiseguys and knockaround guys would be out there doing it, and all those in law enforcement would be out there making cases against them and pinching them!

The mob has gone from blowing up businesses to rackets such as credit card fraud and hacking into businesses computer systems.

I can't wait for the next big bust occurs, mark my words, when I say told you so people here will be saying stuff like, "Well, that's far and few between and is not indicative of the mob today," lol.

Or if it involves one of the Mafia groups from Italy like the Ndrangheta, for example, people will say, "But that's not the American Mafia!" Even thought it happened in the US, lol.

As I mentioned before, and with all due respect to those who think otherwise, I’m gonna have to strongly disagree here.

As an example, I’ll address one extremely weak “theory” that has been put forth as to the current state of affairs of organized crime today by saying this in response to what was stated previously in this thread by one poster. He said, and I quote: “about the rackets being far more sophisticated and even more lucrative. Every now and then we're seeing big fraud cases and whatnot in the tens of millions and sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars.”

The cold hard statistics prove thats an absolutely ludicrous statement that was made. And also shows a lack of understanding about what’s what and how organized crime really operated in this country for well over a century now.

Yes, admittedly, over the past few decades we have seen a couple of hugely profitable racket schemes perpetrated by (LCN) Italian organized crime figures. But the real question is, how many schemes like that were there? And much more importantly than that, what percentage of the “thousands upon thousands” of mafiosi and mob associates that comprise New York’s Five Families were involved and profited from those same few schemes?

1% of their total membership? Maybe 2%? Ok, lets even make it 5%! Thats a mere pittance of their total membership. It amounts to shit. Complete shit!

Tell me, how are the other 95% to 99% percent of all racket guys gonna make their living? What do they do with their time? Play tiddlywinks? Lol.

Do you REALLY think that the majority, or even a good portion, of organized crime figures are in a position to earn from stuff like that? Or are even intelligent and savvy enough to create unique and sophisticated schemes like that?

I’ll say it once again, ok? If you do believe that, then there’s a bridge in Brooklyn thats for sale that I’d like to sell you.
-
This line of thinking only goes to show how uninformed some people are about the true state of “traditional” organized crime in the United States and how the real mechanics of rackets, racketeers and the street really operate.
-
PS: Just remember, that you heard it here first.

Once the mob lost ability to get away with killing people it was pretty much downhill from there.

Once a secret society is exposed kinda loses its luster. The KKK was once a powerful organization once it was exposed it lost its power it’s secrecy. The same thing happened to the mob you have a informants coming on YouTube . The mobs becoming a joke

The mob already is a joke violence-wise, but we're talking about money. Many Families are still making serious money I don't care what NYM or anyone else says. They're still making money, and at the end of the day that's all that matters anyway. Money is the bottom line.

Ironically, most of the rackets have passed on to legitimate corporations. The drug business is run by Big Pharma, owned by congressional stockholders who then get paid on the back end because they're also stockholders in the rehab industry. This biggest bookies are FanDuel Sportsbook, DraftKings Sportsbook, with many congressional investors as well, no doubt. The sex trade has gone online with FansOnly, Chaturbate and countless other sites who get a cut like the virtual pimps that they are. What else is left, shylocking is still around, freight theft, good luck with that nowadays with GPS, same with extortion.
The government got wise and replaced the Mob with legitimate business they can control in the boardrooms not in street shootouts. It's nothing personal, strictly business.

How do we know these YouTube rats aren't just pushing the envelope, seeing how far they can go out in the open? The Witness Protection Program is a miserable life from what I hear.

CNote, the Italian Mafia were never big fans of the sex trade anyway, that's mostly Asian, which as has already been pointed out the Asians still make a killing on. That's another example of the legalization of something not putting organized crime elements out of business.

Are there any real killers in the mob anymore? Any of you know of anyone who has a reputation on the streets as one currently today? There has to be a couple with a reputation even though its rare.

If the rackets they're involved in is mostly nonviolent, why would you need killers?

Cmon, there's always a couple crazy guys tied into organized crime that have a scary reputation of being someone you do not fuck with.

We spoke on this before and my opinion is they have done a pretty good job in construction, restaurants and other legit businesses like that. They’re not on the scale they once were in certain industries but New York is one big fuck off city with plenty of money to be made. There’s random businesses like local grocery stores and bottled water companies and all sorts of random businesses they’re making money in. Frank cali owned some kind of produce business I believe. I do agree that regular street businesses will go into decline, and those guys frankly should probably turn to drugs if they haven’t already. Although I do think loan sharking still holds place as a good money maker for quick money people with bad credit struggling businesses etc. they must have made a ton loansharking to businesses during the pandemic

This is brought up at least every 3 months. Like who out there really believes that we're living in the days of Tony Accardo or Carlo Gambino? Absolutely no one. That doesn't mean they're hurting anywhere near as bad as some people here imply. Hell, your average Joe out there probably thinks they died with Prohibition lol.

Stolen car parts is a huge money maker right now. The Auto theft chop shop business may be the biggest racket currently next to drugs.

Lots more OC activity (if they were still a healthy robust organization, which they are not.) I'm glad we agree, Ciment.

Good point

Still lots of OC activity among Russians and Chinese. You do not want to fuck with Chinese gangsters or Russians, they will fuck you up.

To put things into perspective, we've been hearing narratives about the Mob's demise since the early 90's. You can find books or movies from that timeframe that mention the "washed up Mob". Well, we're at the end of 2023 now and the American LCN is still here. They're not what they once were, they never ever will be what they once were, but they're still around and they're still making money.

And to be honest, all kinds of organized crime you can describe as "traditional organized crime" has taken HUGE hits. This is not a tendency that's unique to the American Mob. The Sicilian Mafia has been battered. The Yakuza have been hit hard since the early 90's. The Triads in Hong Kong and Taiwan have been taking major hits. Traditional British crime firms (especially in London)...the Corsican underworld in the South of France...you can't claim that the modern day world hasn't done major damage to any of them. And when you think of it, how often do you actually hear about a "Russian mob bust" these days? Exactly, it's all few and far between.

Does that mean that they're gone or even that they will disappear somewhat in the foreseeable future? Not at all. They will continue to operate and they will all continue to make plenty of money, but it will never be the way it was before for any of them.

Nowadays the drug trade garners the most attention and it's a fact that world generates the most violence by far. So of course, drug gangs are the ones we're gonna hear about the most. One question we have to ask ourselves though; how "organized" exactly is "organized crime" when it comes to the drug world these days? From what I can see what once were organizations active in the drug business is constantly splintering off into dozens upon dozens of smaller crews that are consistently at each other's throats. Big players are continuously getting busted and new groups shoot up like mushrooms before getting wiped out again in the blink of an eye. The way I see it, the drug trade seems to be more like "organized crime in a disorganized landscape" or vice versa if that makes any sense.
Governments have been doing their darnedest to push what was "organized crime" way into the underground, but what they got in return in the public eye is what one could call "disorganized organized crime".

CNote, my compliments. That was one of the more well-structured and intelligent responses that I've had the pleasure to read in quite some time now. You laid out our case very well. And everything you stated is 100% true!

So thank you for that. Bravo!

No it's not...thats a fallacy. Years ago it was. But today? No way.

Brovelli, I agree there are plenty of "legit" businesses to get into that are moneymakers. But thats NOT organized crime. Thats NOT what we are debating here. Thats legitimate business, understand?

In Chicago it is, I guarantee you that.

Honestly...these guys as well are barely noticeable in public sight. And trust me, I've been to lots and lots of Chinatowns. I remember that even some fifteen years ago Chinatowns used to be places with a very shady atmosphere. Not particularly dangerous, but still you didn't need to look hard to see something shady going on. These days though? Gangs have disappeared from public sight and lot of businesses that were once Chinese have now been replaced by other immigrant businesses (Thai, Nepalese, Filipino...to name a few).

Russians? I remember a certain square in a big city nearby used to be an open hotbed for "Russian" criminal activity (even though those guys in reality were mostly Georgian, Jewish and Armenian but I digress) with fencing, prostitution and loansharking going on openly. Last time I was at that same square was a year ago and it was nothing but tumbleweeds. Not a single mob guy in sight.

I know they're still around, but they as well have been pushed way into the underground.

I seriously seriously doubt that RS.

Because IF it was a thing in Chicago, it most certainly would be a thing in other major cities, NYC, Philly, Boston, etc.....and its NOT!

Nicely put TKJ. And guess what? You're 100% right once again. And I can attest to what you say because I come from NYC, born and bred, and used to go to Chinatown, in Downtown Manhattan, as often as other people change their socks. And how you described it is exactly how it once was.

Ghost Shadows, Flying Dragons, etc., were out in the open and on every street corner. Today? There ain't a one of them.

For that matter, so were all "The Boys" in every Italian enclave worth mentioning throughout NYC's five boros. Today? Forgettaboutit. Lol

Did someone here say that the mob is a powerhouse recently? Because I swear this gets brought up every few months. I just take the news as it comes, everything else is speculation.

Siediti...lol

You know in Italy there's actually an agency called the DIA that keeps track of the health and the status of the various organized crime groups and clans over there, and gives a yearly report on each and every one of them and it goes from territory to territory. We need something like that in the states for our crime groups, but from someone or some agency actually qualified to do so. In other words not coming from a bunch of speculators and know-it-alls on some forum lol.

Many of these members became civilized and wanted to start legit businesses to make a living. Why risk prison when you can run a strip club or say a restaurant for example and be left the fuck alone? Do they still partake in some illegal activity on the side possibly? Of course. But their overall source of income is now from legit businesses.

Liggio, once again I gotta advice ya to only speak for yourself. lol

(just kidding)

...aside from chop shops and stolen auto parts, you mean, don't you?

Counterfeit goods are one of the biggest rackets now, and have been for many years. They are run by Asians and Africans. There was a recent bust in New York of a big ring, but they only nabbed the street vendors. There are importers in Africa and Asia who never set foot here, yet control things through their men. Illegal immigration and in some cases legal have been a boost to them. There are South American theft rings operation all over major cities, for some reason they get little coverage.

I think people (Not you) can't admit, or can't realize that the Italian-American Mafia is as close to dead as can be, and is way behind other groups now, Look at most Gangland.news stories the past year, all about associates and poker games, with the biggest story being an associate being killed by his non-associate son over money!

I think those rackets get little coverage because a lot of people think of selling counterfeit goods and running theft rings as basically one step above petty crime. It's not as "sexy" (for the lack of a better word) as stuff like narcotics, loansharking, gambling, prostitution, extortion, etc... There are counterfeit rings all over the world, but people rarely cover them because most people don't seem to outright "fear" those kind of organizations.

What people don't seem to understand is that the landscape has changed drastically. Stop watching these movies. They depict a time that's long gone! It's fun to watch those movies and they are very entertaining, but the era we are living in currently does not support that life anymore. Imagine if our planet ran out of oxygen. You know what would happen. Well, the mob ran out of rackets. It's as simple as that.

Look at my man Giacalone? Steppin' up to the plate all sassy and bangin' it straight out of the park!

Bravo! Another well thought out comment, tellin' it exactly like it REALLY is!

Yeah it's actually basic mathematics when you look at it like that. Less possible rackets = less activity

Yea I’m more addressing the points as to why there are fewer indictments and whether that’s an indication of their demise or not. My general point is: there’s fewer indictments because they’re not killing people abd because they’re making money in legitimate businesses more than they are illegal. Whether that means they are in the gutter or they’re being clever I’m not convinced one way or the other.

Bingo! Give that man a cigar!

Brovelli, I appreciate the statement you just made above, and heres what I want add to that, ok?...

To be sure, plenty of "wiseguys" and knock around guys are still around. And will be for quite some time, at least here in NYC. They're still out there on the streets. But the point is, 90% of them are sucking wind, now, and for the foreseeable future. That is, unless one of them hits the NYS lottery for a billion dollars and decides to share it equally among all LCN throughout the city. Otherwise, it hard times ahead....VERY HARD TIMES AHEAD! (and you can take that to the bank.) In fact, truth be told, thats gonna be about the only thing they can take to "the bank." Lol

Why does everyone love bashing LCN? I don’t recall anyone here saying that they're anywhere near as strong as they once were. Find some other group to pick on. Like I said, one of these threads are started at least 3 times a year, usually from the same people.

And the same "usual suspects" spout the same gibberish!

Like clockwork! LOL

I tend to believe that more of them are being “successful” today than you’re suggesting and I think the ones sucking wind as you say are more the minority than the majority but I have no issue if i am wrong on that

Talking purely made guys this is. Associates I have no doubt are living off scraps

All people talk about on these forums is basically how much better, more violent, and more powerful other groups are over Italian OC. True or not, I find it funny that virtually no one is even remotely interested in their stories. If not for the mob, you'd be hard pressed to get anyone to even want to read about organized crime lol. Just look all through this blog, most people are discussing LCN and Italy. Weak or not, they definitely garner the most attention and interest and that's a fact.

Case in point, this thread was just started today and it's already 3 pages lol

Jace you're right about Gangland News not having any good Mafia stories over the last several years. That's why I haven't resubscribed, it's not worth the energy. I keep saying that if anything really big happens, I'm talking about a blockbuster story the likes of Richard Martino's $700 million caper or something like that, I'll resubscribe. I'm still waiting....

Most of his stories seem to be more about legendary prosecutors or this judge or that lawyer passed away, fucking boring lol....

Waffling now are we?...

Jace you say that people can't admit that LCN is dead, I beg to differ. Most people I've seen online tend to lean towards that they are dead or barely breathing. Most of the time when we're talking about LCN it's in the past tense, usually decades ago. Which is why I'm wondering what the whole point of this thread is.

Didn't you just make a post a few weeks ago talking about how some Genovese guys walked off laughing to the bank with extremely light sentences? Then you go and make this post with that title. That's a major contradiction if you ask me.

Are you directing this post toward me? Because I'm not sure what you're talking about. If it was me, then I was probably just reporting on a news article.

Your point?

My point is your "reporting on a news article" and the title of this thread don't add up, they don't go together. That's my point.

Maybe in "your" mind they don't add up. But we've already established that your knowledge and understanding about the subject at hand is limited.

Not to mention the fact that after you typically read something, often times, you don't necessarily properly comprehend what you just read correctly. And based on my "original" post in this thread (a thread that I started by the way, thats an obvious fact.)

PS: But like you said to me, "No offense though or anything against you."

The Italians are weak, they are civilized. That is why you don't see shit anymore. That is reality.

You got a bunch of Italian spoiled kids who were born with silver spoons in their mouths and attended private schools who are supposed to take over the mob? That is comical.

The old school guys are fuckin dead or in their 80s. It will never be the same as it was in the 60's and 70's.

That is largely correct, and most (not all,) but most, of the younger fellas around today are not even steeped in the tradition, nor are they knowledgeable enough about the mechanics of "this thing" to comfortably step into the mix and operate safely and efficiently.

They lack the knowhow, savvy, and diplomacy, because they were never "groomed" by their forefathers. Never mind that they were not groomed "properly," they were "never groomed at all" to begin with...And THATS the truth.

See thats the difference that you see when it comes to the LCN here in America compared to Mexico. The Mexicans are still grooming their children to be gangsters.

The Italians want their children to become doctors and lawyers. Living a life in a nice house in the suburbs with legit professions.

It's just stupid and plain silly to compare America to a country like Mexico. I don't know why it's so many people's go-to. They are corrupted from top to bottom, they even execute people publicly and with impunity. I feel like Italy or Canada are better comparisons and more fair, at least they're considered "1st world."

Can you blame them? Lol. They want better for their children. Ideally, each future generation should benefit from the previous generation (from their elders.)...Thats called progress.

Interestingly I read Valachi's full written memoirs and it didn't seem to me that he had particularly any tradition or knowledge of the life too long before he got inducted and that's going back to the 30s. Not saying he is the best example being he was one of the biggest rats and no doubt there were far more guys back then (probably largely Sicilians) who did have that tradition but also interesting that even back then there must've been a ton of guys who were petty street criminals and a bit clueless to "the life", at least initially
.
Similar to Gravano too who didn't have any tradition so to say but was a tough guy and got schooled. But no doubt Italians have overwhelmingly moved up the economic ladder so that pool of street guys is cut way down today. We'll see if the college mobsters are the future

As I’ve said for many years now, the mob is mostly in name only. Once the Italian immigrant communities disappeared, the mob slowly went with it for the most part. Are there still mobsters, yes they’re hanging on by old timers and wanna-bees. That’s why nearly all these posts deal with historic members, dead or old making this a trip down memory site. One I enjoy, I’m not knocking it I’m just stating my opinion. Some of you want to believe otherwise, go ahead I just haven’t seen it and other than opinions no one has been able to prove otherwise. The mob today is even worthy of federal scrutiny, so much so they now go after Catholics and school board members who want to protect their children to stay busy..

Seems to me like everyone here agrees it's over or it's not what it used to be. So maybe OP is just talking to himself? It's okay to talk to yourself, as long as you don't answer yourself.

George Anastasia is another one who rambles on and on about how the mob ain't what it once was, his entire book The Last Gangster repeated it over and over and over, almost every page. At least 3 or 4 times per chapter. I'm like dude just tell the damn story already.

The mobs monopoly control and power days are over

However guys are doing very well financially today as with legal gambling & weed you can do this racket out in the open with minimal threat of arrest. Huge gambling books out there and real estate holdings

Unless there is violence serious prison time days are over, saving guys tons of $ and keeping them
On the streets earning

They have pivoted to quasi legal industries

They are still a local economic force with a lot of valuable real estate & business assets
Still strong in gambling, construction, trucking, port, restaurants, real estate and weed. Big $ being made, especially Westside & Gambinos

The guy Senator Menendez was arrested for is a major NJ water front Contractor and
West side associate. One of the many big $ guys Pennissi said the west side has. WS made major
$ in NJ Gold Coast business,

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fred-...be-has-ties-to-genovese-mob-crime-family

I was just thinking about something yesterday. Why would anyone want to be a gangster when you can get rich pretending to be a gangster? Just look at all the rappers out there today.

or be an fbi identified mafia boss like joey merlino having a podcast...which i still cannot wrap my head around.

Because many rackets they do are legal today, gambling, weed, legit businesses (business racketeering vs labor racketeering) and they have adjusted to not using violence.

The mob doesn’t have anywhere near the monopoly power that they had but they are still making lots of money , especially in legit business and especially Westside. They seem to be paying off local officials to orchestrate $ making schemes, tow trucking and per below NJ Gold Coast redevelopment. Also way less LE after them ( even NJ port being disbanded ). FBI agent Mike Campsi has a good clad interview on this and current mafia


https://www.thedailybeast.com/fred-...be-has-ties-to-genovese-mob-crime-family

I serious believe that Merlino is doing it so he can have a public platform to voice his opinions on rats. It's a motive for sure.

There's a difference, Joey Merlino is a gangster-turned-podcaster, most of those rappers were NEVER gangsters. Merlino actually lived a lot of what they yap about on their records. Plus he knows it's over, he's just having fun now.