Misconceptions of the Montreal Mafia war

In the interest of generating discussions I figured this would be a good topic to debate. The media has made this war to be between Sicilians and Calabrians when in fact both groups had both Sicilians and Calabrians in their respective clans. Not to mention Italians from Caserta, Campobasso, Puglia and others. A good example of how the media got it wrong is labeling DiMaulo as a Calabrese. Do you recall any other misconceptions or other example where the media or book authors got it wrong ?

Well i’m from montreal and I lived in neighborhood were street gangs are mostly active. And it always been like that. Many time i read things on the news about the gangs, and every people from the neighborhood or the haitian community knows that what is on the new is bullshit or sometime right but not 100%.

So i think the same thing could be said about the mafia and the criminal world in the italian community. Many italians or people near the italian community knows more than the media. And its like that in every country.
But also, the media is not 100% bullshit… its hard to really know what is really happening, since its the underwold.

It's not about Sicilian vs Calabrians, but we do have two different Italian organizations cosa nostra and 'ndrangheta they work together but are not the same.

What was Giuseppe DiMaulo's roots if not Calabrian?

Di maulo is not calabrian ?

Hi Blackmobs, I replied to your previous post stating that you made valuable points and welcomed your input but I don't know what happened your post is no longer on the screen.; which is strange. Does it show on yours because I don't see it on mine.

You are correct Blackmobs he is from Campobasso.

Yeah I deleted them to respect youre post. Since its about the mafia war, I taught maybe they were out of place

I just want to let you know that I agreed with your previous post that disappeared for reasons I do not know and I also agree with you on this one also.

You didn't have to delete it . You made good points about the media which applies to this post also.

Sorry about that. I just taught it was probably direspectful

One thing I know about the media, they don’t really understand the links between members of differents factions of the criminal world.
They don’t understand that many mafia guys in there 40s grew up with people from different background of the criminal world.
You got guys who are in the mafia, but lived in place like RDP, st leonard or laval, and were in the same kindergarden with haitians.
So its not like someone work for someone, but mostly they work together, since they were probably doing stuff together since they were teens.
But the news don’t understand the montreal reality.
My big brother stayed in lasalle for some time. And many jamaicans and irish teens were always together, and fighting the french kids. Many of those guys became members of the irish mob or west indies crews. And like in the east, they work together, because they knew each other for a long time

The press from french culture (quebec and france) are more about making a sensation, so sometime they come up with articles without really doing a big research. While, article from anglos are more reserved, and won’t admit something if they are not 100% sure.
Thats why sometime, the articles in english give less details and are more boring then there french counterparts.

Calabrians vs sicilians is easier to explain to the quebec citizens than explaining every factions of the mafia world of quebec.
Many people in quebec still think that there only one mafia clan in Montreal ( the rizzuto’s). So trying to explain the many clans etc…. The media went the easy way and just said its sicilian vs calabrian

So Ciment, who do you think killed the Musitano brothers and why?

Maria Mourani’s book about Joe Di Maulo’s daughter Milena provides an exact place of birth for him: Montorio dei Frentani (town), which is in Campobasso (the province as opposed to the capital city).

Louis Greco, who for many decades has been misidentified as having Sicilian ancestry — and has sometimes even been described as Sicilian born — was actually born in Montreal. Years ago, a man purporting to be related to Greco (a son born outside of Greco’s marriage?) wrote online that Greco was indeed born in Montreal but had ancestry from Montorio dei Frentani — this information made its way into †Pierre de Champlain’s 2014 book.

This is even true when it comes to formal affiliations and I mentioned it before when I said it isnt known if the Rizzuto Family is even a Family and this isn't just a problem in Montreal but in all of Canada. They see a Calabrian invovled in drug trafficking and gambling and say he's a Ndrangheta member. They see a Sicilian and say he's Cosa Nostra. They see someone working with the Rizzutos and automatically he's a member of Family when he isn't. They call identified Bonanno members Rizzuto Family members.




Nicola Di Ioria was another from Campobasso.

So are you saying that the Figliomeni clan aren't part of the Ndrangheta? Regardless, they all belong to some kind of group or clan, highly doubtful that they're just independent operators.

Does the Province of Campobasso even have a homegrown organized crime syndicate? Seems to me like Italians from that region can join whatever group they wish.

No I'm clearly not saying a known and proven Ndrangheta family that goes back generations like the Figliomenis isn't apart of the Ndrangheta. ???

The main groups I'm referring to are the supposed Rizzuto Family Cotroni Family Luppino Family Papalia Family and Musitano Family. I'm also referring to guys like Martino Caputo Alfredo Patriarca Pietro Scarcella Gaetano Panepinto Daniele Ranieri Frank Campoli and the many Cammalleris in the GTA.

Oh sorry for the misunderstanding. Canada needs legitimate charts like America, so we can clearly see who the fuck belongs to who.

Frank D'Asti was from Caserta
Tony Mucci from Campobasso

When you say that the Rizzuto Family isn't actually a Family, what exactly do you mean? Apparently they're some kind of group that has members, what exactly are they then? I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just think that there has to be some kind of common thread that ties them together.

We already went through this one the post you made on the topic. But to recap and answer your question

What I mean is the infamous Rizzuto Family has never been proven to exist as a officially recognized Mafia Family.

We know the Bonanno Family had a crew in Montreal that consisted of 20 member give or take from the 1960s to 1999 when Sal Vitale visited. It's claimed Montreal broke off when the Gerlando Sciascia was killed who was the Captain of the Montreal crew but we have recordings in 2005 that prove they didn't. Everything I stated before this is undisputed facts.

Where it gets complicated is after the mess with Sal Montagna.

In that war we had Montreal Bonanno members on both sides and most of them were killed. We don't know what the status of the few remaining Montreal Bonanno members are.

This is also when we see Leonardo Rizzuto and Stefano Sollecito take over. Not once has there been any sort of official recognition as amico nostra that we know of between this organization ran by Leonardo Rizzuto and Stefano Sollecito and a official Mafia Family.

What a lot of you had a hard time understanding last time was I'm not saying they're not an official Family apart of Cosa Nostra. I'm saying we do not know and so say otherwise is wildly irresponsible of us.

What makes it complicated is the presence of the Caruana- Cuntrera, who WERE a recognized mafia family.

When we are speaking of recognized family. Recognized by whom are we speaking about, Sicily or NY Bonanno family ?

Next question I am throwing out there in the open, can a local family decide to start it's own mafia ?

The correct answer is an unequivocal no!

When Calabrese start their own group it has to be accepted by la mamma at the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Polsi in San Luca. In September they meet again like every year.

The reason I asked is not to entrap anyone ; everyone's opinion is valuable.
I am often torn about what makes a criminal group a mafia or not and that is why this question was asked and also to get different ideas from others as to whether it's a misconception or not.
The Stidda and the Sacre Corona Unita were created much later and many criminologists in Italy have referred to them as Mafias. Then I ask myself the question, if someone creates a criminal organized here in North America what makes them not a mafia ? Isn't that what the earlier Mafioso's from Italy did when they immigrated to America ?

Ideally we'd want some sort of recognition from one of the American Families since we're talking about Montreal here but recognition from Sicily would be helpful too.



Bit of a complicated question. If we want to get technical Mafia only refers to Cosa Nostra. The word has been bastardized so much that it went from only Cosa Nostra to other Italian organized crime groups to any ethnic organized crime groups. When people use Mafia almost everyone acknowledges that you're using it in a general sense to refer to a particular organized crime group.

A "Mafia" type organization, or more appropriately, a "mafioso" mentality, is extremely common to Southern Italians born back in their homeland. Whether or not they choose to go into the criminal life, per se. It is a mentality, unique to Italy/Sicily, instilled in them since they were children by their parents and blood family.

Even American-born Italian street guys who were raised 'correctly' by their elders can exhibit a 'mafioso' styled mentality that carries them through life. Whether they choose to be legitimate businessmen or take to the streets to make a living.

Because, truth be told, a 'true' mafioso is born, not made!
--
Here's the second half of my answer. lol. (I forgot to write it).

That said, if a bunch of fellas got together. And they had the sufficient amount of balls and brains and moxie, they could create a Mafia-styled crew, as good, if not better, than a so-called formally recognized LCN "Family." (especially nowadays in 2023 where all these crews as screwed up and are running on fumes.)

Thanks NY Mafia, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this matter.

You have answered my question despite you not remembering the second half lol.
I may not have been clear enough when I raised this question. I didn't mean just any crew but descendants of of Italians from southern Italy or Sicily.
You touched on three important factors, how they were raised, blood relation and their state of mind.

In Ontario police also sees an influx of newer immigrant Sicilian and Italian mafiosi.

You're very welcome Ciment. I'm glad I was able to answer your questions properly.

Anyone have a take on the relationship between the Rizzuto clan and the Caruana-Cuntrera?
Like, today? I feel like there was some kinda... split? They didn't seem to be in lockstep after the late 90s...

In September 2010 Agostino Cuntrera, believed to be the new boss of the Rizzuto family, was killed in Montreal together with his associate Liborio Sciascia, probably in the context of a conflict within Canadian crime [33] [34] .

One of the last prominent members of the organization, Vito Triassi died in February 2019 in Tenerife . Triassi was considered the colonel of the criminal group in Ostia , however, since the beginning of 2010 , the Cuntrera-Caruana family had lost its historical presence in the city and the former boss decided to move to Spain.

@CabriniGreen I personally don't believe the Cuntrera-Caruana will just fade away you know they have been involved for over 60 years.

Is anyone familiar with the Mila Barberi and the Angelo Musitano shootings ?

I am perplexed on the Barberi murder/attempted murder Saverio Serrano whom police say he was the intended target and that of Angelo Musitano shot dead in his driveway. We all know Musitano sided with the Ruzzuto's and that Saverio Serrano is the son of Diego Serrano who was arrested along with Ursino in the Ophoenix police raid. The police identified two men believed to have been directly involved in both murders. How can that be if both victims are rivals or am I wrong to believe that ? Furthermore Cudmore suspected to be involved in both murders, joins his friend Ranieri (whom the Rizzuto's replaced Fernandez with in Toronto) , then both Ranieri and Cudmore get killed in Mexico. Does anyone have a good explanation ?

I know Mila was an innocent victim, But Barberi is well known surname in 'Ndrangheta.

Some of this can be cleared up because a lot has come out from the trial of the only person arrested and charged in relation to these murders.

The same hit team was used in both murders but police haven't connected the victims or intended victims to eachother meaning it's possible that the only connection between them is whoever wanted them dead used the same hit team. Saverio Serrano might not have been the intended target either. His brother Francesco Serrano had been using the car in the weeks leading up to the shooting and had a driver since his license was suspended. Francesco Serrano was the only son of Diego Serrano that was known to police. I think you're wrong that Diego Serrano and Angelo Musitano or their families were rivals I haven't seen that said anywhere.

I'll disagree with the notion Daniele Ranieri was placed by the Rizzutos to replace Juan Fernandez. He worked under Juan Fernandez and continued committing crimes after his deportation and murder. Daniele Ranieri would be one of those guys I mentioned earlier as being labelled a Rizzuto guy but his formal affiliations are unknown and probably different.

Dom Violi was recorded saying Angelo Musitano's murder was a message to Pat Musitano and in another recording Dom Violi is heard saying the Musitanos decided to support the Cuntrera family so they were added as targets. We don't exactly know who the Cuntreras had a dispute with but based on Dom Violi's comments it wasn't him.

In weeks and months leading to these murders Michael Cudmore bought GPS trackers that they used and the days they were bought Daniel Tomassetti placed calls to Mexico. The police's theory is they were to Daniele Ranieri who fled there in 2016. Police also tracked calls to New York and to Tony Iavarone and his son Joseph Iavarone. They're the brother and nephew of Albert Iavarone who was killed in 2018 most likely as retaliation for Angelo Musitano's murder. Albert Iavarone was one of the men made in Los Angeles in 2017.

The best explanation is the Musitanos supported the Cuntreras who had some type of problem with the Iavarone brothers. To go another step farther this was actually dispute between the Cuntreras and Gambino Family. I say this because Albert Iavarone was probably made into the Los Angeles Family by Tommaso Gambino as a favor to the Gambino Family or into the Gambino Family and for some reason it happened in Los Angeles.

Michael Cudmore and Daniele Ranieri's murders in Mexico was probably just tying up loose ends. Daniel Tomassetti is probably dead too.

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...7de1918-8c91-5a85-8441-24d5fe6d3b29.html

Toronto Star

Police said Ranieri took over the Rizzuto operation in Toronto in 2013 after the murder of his former associate, Juan Ramon Fernandez, also known in the GTA as “Joey Bravo.”

Whether it is Saverio or Francesco Serrano it is still a son of Diego the intended target. Musitano's had it in for the Violi's/ Luppino's . Murdock the hitman for the Musitano's talked about it in the past . Pat Musitano probably felt more empowered to strike now, having the backing of Montreal and possibly of the Cuntrera's also. So this conflict was most likely between these groups I just mentioned.
Diego did business with the Ndrangheta not the Musitano clan. This is why I placed Diego in the rival group. It's the Diego angle that confuses me and the same shooters. There is a missing piece to the puzzle.
I thank you for trying but the explanation you gave me still does not make sense to me and I don't mean this in a bad way. There are too many groups involved and it makes it difficult to figure what's what or maybe I am the one that can't picture it lol.

Mafia 101, I got a question for you. In which group do you place the Iavarone brothers to be , for the Luppino/Violi or the Rizzuto clan ? I have read articles that places them either or.

I don't think Montreal has anything to do with the mess in Hamilton. Dom Violi's recordings were clear it was because the Musitanos supported the Cuntreras and no mention of Montreal was there.

Placing Diego Serrano in a rival group that you're saying involves the Ndrangheta goes into the previous misconception that it's the Ndrangheta and Montreal unless I'm reading that wrong. Until more information comes out about Diego Serrano and the hit on his son that connects this its pointless to pretend it's already connected. It's not the first time a hit team has been used by two separate groups to take out different targets.



Neither. I think their formal affiliation lies with the Gambino Family or proxy of the Gambino Family through Los Angeles.

I don't know of anything that has placed the Iavarone brothers with the Rizzutos. I only know of Tony Iavarone's attendance at Martin Robert's wedding in 2018. Think they said he arrive with or sat with Tony Pietrantonio. Other articles said the Iavarones came up with the Musitanos but have drifted from them. They obviously know the Luppinos and Violis but none of that indicates formal affiliations.


I don't mean this in any sort of condescending way but I think you need to read up on Project Otremens tapes with the Violi brothers and the Bonanno informant. It doesn't clear up everything but alot of stuff came out on those recordings that no one would of even guessed of before 2017.

When I mentioned Rizzuto of course it includes the Cuntrera/Caruana and Musitano groups. So if you want me to be specific. It would be Musitano/Cuntrera/Caruana/Rizzuto vs Luppino/Violi/Commisso/Ndrangheta. I thought it was understood. And I am not talking about formal affiliation of the past. I know quite well about the Gambino affiliation and Tony Iavarone wedding attendance. I am talking about Canadian ties of the recent war that was waged with the Musitano clan and the others that I just listed. Iavarone must of had ties to one group or another. They just don't start shooting x/or Gambino people for no reason.
So I thank you once again.

I don't think I'm following what you're asking then because I did say where I think Tony Iavarone's current affiliation lies and I base that on Albert Iavarone being made in Los Angeles.

I don't understand your assessment that this is Musitano/Cuntrera/Caruana/Rizzuto vs Luppino/Violi/Commisso/Ndrangheta. We don't know half of these guys are involved in this and you left out the one we do know was involved. Where's the Iavarones/Gambinos? How is Commisso or even the Ndrangheta being added into this? If you're basing it just from the shooting on Diego Serrano's kid that's a big jump because we don't know the shootings are connected and wasn't Diego Serrano a Ursino guy not a Commisso guy? How are you adding the Rizzutos into it? Dom Violi's own words were they all get along when talking about Montreal.

to start with sorry about my absence the last few weeks have not been feeling great and been out of internet area. ranieri did not take over anything for rizzutos in toronto or anywhere. any rackets ranieri and his small crew took over were for fernandez only. fernandez was leader of crew until his deportation in late 2012. it sounds like ranieri et al operated under leadership of fernandez up until his 2013 murder. there i s no evidence showing ranieri switched to rizzuto side after 2013. ranieri and crew were all indicted in proj forza dec 2014, there is no mention of them being directly linked to rizzutos. as far as hit teams being led by ranieri this shows them as being contracted hit teams to whoever was paying. the same type of scenario that is playing out with frederick silva in mtl. as silvas info comes out we can see that although he may have met and or committed murders for rizzuto/sollecito faction, silva and associates were taking contracts on anyone.

a final thought on caruana-cuntrera family. there is no presence of the C-C anywhere in mtl anymore aside from liborio. even the extent of liborio cuntreras involvement currently is in dispute. there exists no vast network of drug importers as was the case in late 90's with alfonso caruana. as far as the C-C family operating in ontario i cannot be as sure but since arsons and shootings that took place in 2017 against giuseppe and family it has been very quiet.

Who's taking shots at Giuseppe Caruana or Cuntrera (which is it?) in Ontario? So you're saying that Fernandez didn't fall under the Rizzuto umbrella even though he was a sort of righthand man for Vito Rizzuto at one time? Wouldn't that automatically put Ranieri under the Rizzutos? And what groups were these contracted hitmen killing for?

The commissos were fighting with the caruana cuntreras and Montreal because the commissos ripped off some wolfpack guys of a drug shipment and killed anyone who came from Montreal to try and collect. The wolfpack guys fall under the of the rizzutos and specifically in Toronto, the caruana cuntreras. There were lots of arsons in 2017-2018 in Woodbridge but I believe it was settled after cosimo commisso (the nephew) was killed as a message. Supposedly the commissos asked people from New York to solve the issue but they said that it was the commissos fault that they ripped off those people in the first place and I believe it was squashed from that point. The musitanos I believe backed the caruana cuntreras but they made too many enemies through the years that any beefs they had carried on separately from the cc issue.

So cousins of Commisso getting killed, Luppino son getting killed, Commisso cafe's /restaurant shot at & bombed, Cuntrera (DiManno bakery) molotov cocktail , Cuntrera houses getting shot at & arson, Musitano's getting shot, Toronto Star article I gave you about Ranieri that contradicted what you said and I could go on and on . Multiple News articles and book authors mentioning that Rizzuto and Musitano are allies in this plight. Furthermore, I never said Serrano was a Commisso guy read my original post I mentioned Ursino . If you wish to ridicule my assessment at least call it as it is. Then all these facts and criminal acts being perpetrated to the Commisso, Luppino ,Cuntrera and others are just a fantasy that I made up. Sorry for disturbing you It will not happen again. Thank You

Ciment I'm not calling anything you're saying a fantasy or implying that and I'm not ridiculing your assessment on it I just don't agree with it and think you're ignoring certain things I've brought up. It's completely okay if we disagree but there's no reason to get upset.

The murders shootings and firebombings have all obviously happened to these people but that doesn't mean it's all linked to eachother. I remember when Carmine Verduci was killed and everyone said Vito Rizzuto was behind it but it was actually between the Figliomenis and Coluccios.

I'm not saying these these aren't connected because they could be but like my stance on Montreal being a Family we just don't know the answers.

One of the biggest points I've been speaking about here is not everything is what is reported. Just because there's relationships between all these guys does not mean when something happens in Toronto it's connected to Montreal or Hamilton. This goes to formal affiliations like with Daniele Ranieri but others too and I agree with what Vitocahill said about Daniele Ranieri. Can you name a actual link between Musitanos and Rizzutos from the last 15 years? I don't think I can. A lot of these articles are using info from 20-25 years ago and incomplete info at that. Let's use some info from this decade. One of the Violi brothers was recorded saying Pat Musitano was planning to kill two made men in Toronto but he didn't know who ordered it but thought Joe Todaro would of had to. Joe Todaro could only order Pat Musitano to commit a murder if he was under him. Police have said they believe Pat Musitano was a Buffalo member. Hamilton has always been Buffalo territory. It all points to him being with that Family.

I apologise about the Diego Serrano and Commisso. I obviously misunderstood how you were connecting the Commissos into this.

I have heard what Moscone65 wrote too about the Commissos ripping off the Cuntreras in some drug shipments. But where does this come from?

They have tons of informers on the streets, but with so few really testifying in court, Canadian crime will never get exposed like in the USA and Italy.

Mafia 101 , I am ready to resume talks and Its okay with me too, to disagree that is how we learn through discussions. I like to debate and get ideas from others as along as we mutually respect one another.
I also enjoyed some of our passed discussions and I am willing to forget this recent incident and move on.

The following is probably going to be one to agree to disagree.
The Montreal Crime family , since the Cotroni days, have always had what I call a "point man" in Toronto to look after family businesses they control in Toronto and to also be the eyes and hears. This has been going on for decades . Find below a list men they used over the years. Unfortunately, all got killed at one point or another, except for one who turned informant. When one gets killed they always managed somehow to find one to replace .

Real Simard & Eddie Melo the boxer used to drive to Toronto frequently to take care of family business
Gaetano Panepinto
Constantin (Big Gus) Alevizos
Juan Ramon Fernandez
Daniel Ranieri
Constantin (Big Gus) Alevizos

It has also been well known, that the Cotroni crime family including the Rizzuto's, have been trying to expand in Ontario for years.

"A few months after the Papalia and Barillaro murders in 1997, but before their arrests, Musitano and his cousin, Avignone, joined Rizzuto for a late-night meeting in a restaurant north of Toronto. Musitano backed the Sicilians in Ontario, where Calabrian mobsters ran the underworld." National Post".


You asked to name an actual link between Musitano and Rizzuto, it is Gaetano Panepinto. killed in 2000. Prior to the arrests he dealt with Musitano.
There were plenty of warnings he had enemies.
October 10, 2000, Vito Rizzuto was visiting a funeral parlour in Toronto. He had come to pay his respects to the grieving family of one of his key associates in Ontario, Gaetano “Guy” Panepinto, who had been murdered the week before at age forty-one. Vito was accompanied by three of his top men: Paolo Renda, his brother-in-law and the family’s consigliere; Rocco Sollecito, the former manager of the Consenza Social Club; and Francesco Arcadi, his Calabrian lieutenant.


National Post Published Jul 12, 2020

"The most painful was the murder of his brother, Angelo, in 2017.

In secretly recorded police wiretaps recorded in 2014, Toronto-area mobsters talk about Musitano and his organization, by his name and sometimes as “the ones from Hamilton.”

In 2016, other wiretaps of different mobsters, caught less flattering nicknames. The Musitano brothers were referred to as “the Fatsos” and “the Idiots.”

Dominic Violi, a well-known Hamilton criminal whose family has long Mafia roots, had grown up with Musitano. They played together on swing sets as children and remained friendly for decades.

The Rizzutos in Montreal, however, had murdered Violi’s father, who was also a Calabrian mob boss. Violi complained in 2017 that Musitano was still supporting Sicilian mobsters in Toronto, according to summaries of wiretaps submitted in court."

Vito Rizzuto Passed away in 2013. If point men were used in the past surely Leonardo Rizzuto could of easily use other Sicilian contacts in Ontario to communicate with Musitano.



With regards to the media articles you gave a good example with the Verduci, they really got that one wrong but on certain occasion more often than none they it right.
The reporters are the ones that are close to the police whom they most often get tips from them. A good investigative will also get facts through investigations.
We on the other hand, have to rely on information we get from media, books, analysis through thought process, theorizing and debates to formulate an opinion.
Let's hope we can do this amicably.

Glad your back VitoCahill , hope everything is okay with you !

To be perfectly honest I don't even know what the incident was. Thought we were chilling going back and forth here.

According to police at that meeting with Pat Musitano Pino Avignone Gaetano Panepinto and Vito Rizzuto Gaetano Panepinto introduce Pat Musitano and Pino Avignone as friends of ours. This was well over 15 years ago and the meeting doesn't mean much today or back then. It doesn't mean the Musitanos were with Rizzuto. That's why I kept talking about formal affiliations because that's what really matters. All these guys have met eachother at one point or another that's why we can't say he's with him or he's with him based on these interactions. What that meeting actually looks like is a formal introduction between probable Buffalo members and Vito Rizzuto a Bonanno Soldier through Gaetano Panepinto who must be made to introduce these men but formal affiliation unknown.

Those Sicilians Pat Musitano supported were the Cuntreras and according to Dom Violi was what put the Musitanos on the hitlist.

I see how you're trying to connect the Rizzutos to the Musitanos and Hamilton mess but it doesn't make sense the way I look at it. The only relationships we can come up with are 20+ years old and probably not as what we're reported based on other stuff that's out there. The Musitanos were arrested shortly after the 1997 meeting and by the time they got out Vito Rizzuto was in jail and Montreal already started deteriorating.

I think Big Joe and others have moved to Venezuela or maybe Aruba, the Caribbean.

Cuntrera is very close to 'ndrangheta. Giuseppe Coluccio (who is also free) and others..

Coluccio entered on the powerful Camera di controllo – the board of control for 'Ndrangheta clans, comprising six or seven Toronto-area men, who co-ordinate activities and resolves disputes among Calabrian gangsters in Southern Ontario.[4] He also aligned himself with members of the Sicilian Mafia, in particular with Giuseppe Big Joe Cuntrera, a member of the Cuntrera-Caruana Mafia clan operating in Canada and Venezuela and involved in large scale cocaine trafficking.[5][11] Police allege Coluccio continued trafficking "substantial quantities" of cocaine and hashish from South America while he was living in Canada.[6]

Vito Rizzuto was released from jail in 2012 and died in 2013. Pat Musitano got killed in 2019. So that makes it 7 years. If Vito Supported him in 1997. Why wouldn't he not support him in 2012. When Vito came out of jail he was more determined than ever to avenge for what they did to his family.

Furthermore , Rizzuto has cousins in Toronto. When he was released from jail 2012 he visited Toronto and met with people. He had plenty of opportunity to relay any messages to the Musitano.

The recording of Violi complaining in 2017 that Musitano was still supporting Sicilian mobsters in Toronto, according to summaries of wiretaps submitted in court." Reaffirms their relationship some of these Sicilian mobsters in Toronto are relatives of Rizzuto and his relatives would not go against Vito. For them to support Musitano means they had the consent of Vito. So it would be logical to assume there is a relationship between the Musitano clan and Rizzuto clan. I find there is enough evidence to connect the dots. All I did is research a few articles and there was enough for me to reach a conclusion. I didn't even refer to books on this very subject.

It is very easy to say there is not enough evidence, we don't know if this happened or if they really met. 95 percent of what we talk about on this organized crime site would fall into this category. This means we can't prove anything unless there is a recording or a witness. So our only alternative is to analyze what ever facts we have and come up with an opinion and its okay that we may come up with opposing outcomes. So I agree to disagree.

So many unknown things why was Carmine Verduci hit was it connected to Montreal?
Jimmy DeMaria and Vito Rizzuto hated each other but what do we know? I think Mirarchi had connections to DeMaria??

Ciment we're just playing could of game now with those scenarios. They could of had a relationship in those 7 years. He could of contacted him in 2012. He could've not contacted them just as well. Can't actually link them during that time and there's no connection between them and Vito Rizzuto's successors during the time the Musitanos were being hit. Montreal had their own problems to worry about at the time. My thing is why can't we just leave it at we don't know instead of saying there were connections?

The Sicilians Dom Violi referred to that the Musitanos supported were the Cuntreras and they aren't relatives of Rizzuto and it doesn't automatically mean Montreal was pulling the strings of all of this.

Dom Violi's own words were they all get along when talking about Montreal. I'll say again that you're ignoring info we have now for incomplete info from 20+ years ago.



Carmine Verduci was killed in a dispute between the Figliomenis and Coluccios with no link to Montreal. At the time everyone and the papers were saying it was Vito Rizzuto striking from the grave.

Yes we play where is, we don't know about those point men if they met, they just happened to work for him but he doesn't know them, the Toronto Star reporter lets just dismiss Ranieri because we don't know . This game can be played both sides . Your interpretation of evidence is you want either a tape recording or a witness at every scenario. What does he mean" where they get along when talking about Montreal " . Montreal has been nothing but chaos for decades and they are all getting along. Please explain to me how is this possible.
Then your grouping the Sicilians as being only Cuntrera. What about Rizzuto's relatives,the Cammalleri ,Campoli's in Toronto they don't count. Your making it sound as if the Cuntrera's call all the shots in Toronto and Rizzuto is just an innocent by stander. Your ignoring info about Toronto Star

Police said Ranieri took over the Rizzuto operation in Toronto in 2013 after the murder of his former associate, Juan Ramon Fernandez, also known in the GTA as “Joey Bravo.”
It seems Reporters and police statements don't count and you say I am ignoring info.
So there is your proof a Rizzuto operative is taking over the operations in Toronto. Who happened to work for Fernandez in the past, Fernandez the same guy who gets killed in Sicily by who's directive , we can't say Rizzuto because by your standards we need a witness or a tape recording. What is a Rizzuto operative doing in Toronto if Leonardo Rizzuto is to busy fighting a war in Montreal. Shouldn't he be there helping out . Who are we kidding.
Furthermore, I never said Cuntrera were relatives. I said some of the Sicilians in Toronto are relatives.

So I agree lets leave it alone and move on.

Juan Fernandez belonged to the Rizzutos, so if Daniele Ranieri belonged to Fernandez then it stands to reason that he belonged to the Rizzutos by extension.

Hamilton and Montreal get along that's how it's possible. It's two different criminal ecosystems and when one is in chaos it doesn't mean the other is involved..

I'm not grouping the Sicilians as being only the Cuntreras for no reason. Dom Violi was specifically referring to the Cuntreras when he said it. The Cammalleri aren't relevant because they haven't been mentioned in how many years. What Cammalleri are even criminally active? Frank Campoli housed Vito Rizzuto when he returned from Canada and that's the only thing that's come out about him in the last 10 years. There's no reason bringing either up because they aren't relevant to this.

I've been pretty vocal on media reports and police understanding of formal affiliations and I have good reason to not take everything they say as proof of affiliations. Like Vitocahill said already Daniele Ranieri worked under Juan Fernandez who had connections to Vito Rizzuto and may have taken over whatever criminal activities Juan Fernandez had after his deportation and murder but the link to him being under Montreal is weak. The closest link of him and Montreal is his involvement in the gambling ring ran by Benedetto Manasseri who has business with Vittorio Mirarchi.

Another misunderstanding about the Cuntreras being relatives. Got confused because they were who we were talking about.



By that logic Montreal would still be the Bonanno Family's

If Daniele Ranieri was still or even a Rizzuto guy wouldn't that kinda ruin the whole other argument you're making the the Rizzutos and Musitanos were together? In Jabril Abdalla trial evidence presented showed the hitteam being in contact with Daniele Ranieri. It very much looks like Daniele Ranieri was one of the ones who organized the hit on Angelo Musitano. From your own argument we have allies killing allies here.

I wish I had the time to do more research, sadly I work too much. Maybe this weekend I can look at both of your points more in depth.

I'm really hoping that when enough time passes, someone out there with a good enough understanding of what's really going on can write a very detailed book. No wonder next to none of the murders have been solved, so many groups and possible motives lol.

Look what I found Mafia 101 :

This throws your your argument out the door. Nicasso the expert.


Antonio Nicaso, a Canadian author and expert on organized crime, said this latest shooting is yet another sign of the continuing power struggle that has plagued the Ontario and Quebec underworld since the death of Montreal Mafia boss Vito Rizzuto in 2013. The Musitano family were allies of the Rizzutos.
“When the Rizzutos were in power the Musitanos … were on the right side of the power,” Mr. Nicaso said. But since the death of Mr. Rizzuto, they have lost that protection. Until the void left by Mr. Rizzuto is filled, Mr. Nicaso says “there will be always violence.”


Musitano was the Niagara Region lieutenant of Vito Rizzuto, Canada’s most powerful mobster — and the hatred between the Sicilian Rizzutos and the Calabrian Violis was epic and enduring. Peter Edwards Toronto Star Peter Edwards. Wow stunning news.

It gets better:

From Gaetano “Guy” Panepinto to Juan Ramón Fernández to Constantin “Big Gus” Alevizos, Vito Rizzuto had enlisted some odd fellows indeed in his quest to muscle in on Canada’s richest province. All was not lost, but the Ontario underworld had so far proven as difficult to govern as a rudderless sailboat. Mafia Inc book.
Vito refused to throw in the towel. He replaced Panepinto with a new emissary for the Greater Toronto Area: a man who was as brilliant as he was bloodthirsty. Juan Ramón Fernández was a Spanish national who had never been made a member of the Sicilian Mafia but whose tough-guy reputation had won him the godfather’s esteem. Mafic Inc Book
Delegating management of his Ontario dealings to a man as unpredictable as Guy Panepinto may not have been among Vito’s wiser business decisions

The ‘Ndrangheta remains the biggest player in gangland and there are more cells, many with strengthened ties to Italy.
The sea change came when longtime Musitano ally and protector Montreal boss Vito Rizzuto died of lung cancer in December 2013.
According to ‘Ndrangheta expert Antonio Nicaso, an author and a professor at Queens University, the bloody war that ensued in Montreal taught gangsters a lesson.
Murder is bad for business.
“The Musitanos betrayed other local families in Hamilton and he paid the consequences of their actions,” Nicaso told The Sun, referring to Pat Musitano.

The timing of Musitano’s big move was disastrous.
By the time he emerged from prison, he had missed the heyday of Rizzuto’s hegemony. The same year he was released on parole, Rizzuto was extradited to the United States for three gangland murders. The Rizzuto’s power waned considerably.
The venom sprang from a sense of betrayal by Musitano for choosing Montreal over Toronto, Sicilians over his Calabrian kin. National Post

With Daniele Ranieri it gets complicated but who is to say they got to him and flipped. Many things could of happened but I cannot speculate short of police tapes or witnesses right.

That was my point at the very beginning with the Barberi/Serrano and the Angelo Musitano. They are saying it was the same shooters and two of them new Ranieri and One of them Cudmore joined Ranieri in Mexico and were both killed. I was saying there is something that doesn't add up. I am not saying that is what happened , but what if they flipped , profited from both shooting and fled; there could be many scenarios. It could also be something that happened from that Ursino police raid. Or one group trying to caused a splinter between two clan. That is what I was looking for, a logical explanation.and haven't found one yet.
Furthermore all his predecessors (point man list I posted the other day) got whacked except for one who turned informant. It was only a matter of time he would be next and fled to Mexico where he thought it would be safe.

A recap of restrictions you impose starts getting longer.

-15 years restriction or statue of limitations of Musitano/Rizzuto alliance which Nicasso blew out the door
- can't believe police reports
-can't believe reporters
-many reporters write books, so we can't believe what is said in the books
-we can't use intuition, analyze information to formulate an opinion, because what we read is not a tape recording.
- so people (known criminal families) getting relatives killed, houses shot at or bakery bombed by molotov, can be classified not involved according to you.
-10 yr statue of limitations if a family is not caught in an illegal act , then they don't need to be mentioned. Funny you didn't impose that 10 yr on other Sicilian families in Toronto

I am surprised you didn't impose the Star trek "Borg Rule " yet, resistance is futile. Lol

https://nationalpost.com/news/canad...-owned-firm-that-won-municipal-contracts

https://mobsters66.rssing.com/chan-34257467/article68.html

Interesting articles. There is a familiar Toronto name.

Mafia boss Vito Rizzuto’s revenge plot against rivals ran deep

To hear some of these people here talk, none of the gangland murders had anything to do with Vito Rizzuto getting revenge, they just sat there and took it like a bitch.

Ciment chill with that tone you're getting more worked up with each reply. You're the one having trouble keeping this amicable. This doesn't throw my argument out at all. Antonio Nicaso's opinion doesn't mean much when using terms like lieutenant. That isn't a position in the Mafia. This doesn't prove any formal affiliations. Antonio Nicaso and Peter Edwards are two worst for perpetuating this misconceptions we're talking about. To this day Peter Edwards believes Vito Rizzuto was poisoned.

You're making connections that may or may not exist still and stating them as fact when you or anyone else can't link them together for over 10-15 years. That's called jumping to conclusions. It's okay to say we don't know and leave it at that until more info comes out. It's okay to put theories out but you speak of these things as fact when they're not.

And yes I can take what reporters police and so called experts have said with a big grain of salt when they consistently say things like Cotroni Family Rizzuto Family Luppino Family Musitano Family and everyone else who they've said have their own Families or hold positions that has never been proven. Canadian information on the Mafia is very informal and generalized and goes against what we know about the Mafia.

What other Sicilian Families in Toronto did I not impose this supposed 10 year limitation on? Are you referring to the Cuntreras? The only group that can actually be linked to this? If you seriously can't figure that out when the reason has been written many times already then there's no point in continuing the talk because you're obviously not listening.

lieutenant is a common term often used like right arm or henchmen.

Nicaso is a legend ! University professor, researcher, speaker and consultant to governments and law enforcement agencies around the world. Nicaso has published more than 30 books on organised crime.

My tone is calm and if you look back I mentioned several times for us to move on. I listen very well, I read articles, books, listen to people of what they have to say on this site that are good contributors of information, ideas & constructive criticism but its hard to carry a serious conversation when one denies most of the literature out there.

I also recognize that there is some miss-information out there. Once I get the information I evaluate, next I try to find if there is other information that backs it up, then analyze. I also keep a list of all who are victims of shooting or have had any other forms of attack and list them by name, date. Then I try to find out which clan they belong to and who the perpetrators are. This has helped me a lot.
Because when you visualize it on a screen you sometimes see a pattern starts to emerge. I also make up my own charts. Which also helps to visualize and understand things. My life experience and friends I had over the years, also helps. I am quite sure others on this site do some of the things I just mentioned.

I am telling you this to show you I don't just accept any information for granted and that there is a thought process before I share some opinions or conclusions to individuals. When I throw a theory or an opinion out there I do so because I want to share my findings and if someone has constructive criticism out there I am willing to listen. But if someone criticizes and I question why , I deserve a truthful and logical answer back. If I don't get one, usually I thank them and move on.
If some wants to play with my mind then I occasionally do the same back but prefer not to. It's mutual respect I am looking for.

Well said. Bravo

an attempt at clarifying juan ramon fernandez and daniele ranieri affiliation.

i went through the past discussion here this morning and re read some info from 4 main montreal mafia books...6th family, mafia inc, business or blood, la source (scoppa book), plus dredged up ye olde hilroy books for old thoughts and info.

there can be no doubt that juan ramon fernandez (j.r.f. from now on) was allied with and worked for the rizzuto crime family, specifically for a time under/with VITO RIZZUTO. j.r.f. acted as a debt collector in toronto, he helped setup and coordinate drug imports direct from colombia and a variety of other crimes too long to list.

however j.f.r's career as a criminal was beyond sporadic and inconsistent. from those 4 books and internet sources we can construct a brief timeline.

1979=acted as driver for frank cotroni.
1979-1990=imprisoned after assault on his then girlfriend.
1991-1999-imprisoned for montreal based arsons...during this sentence both desjardins brothers attended j.f.r's wedding april 1992 in jail. VITO RIZZUTO was also invited but was denied attendance by prison authorities.
1999=deported to spain after sentence complete.
2001=returned to toronto illegally.
apr 2001=deported again to spain.
2001-2002=returned to toronto illegally again in this time period.
may 2002=arrested for gun possession and other charges.
2004=sentenced to 12 years for above charges.
apr 2012=deported again to spain.
sept 2012=arrives in bagheria sicily.
apr.9 2013=murdered in sicily.

i find the narrative of j.r.f being V.R'S "right hand man" absolute non sense and always have. fernandez was a spaniard and could never achieve made status in any family let alone one headed at this time by hard core sicilians. the rizzutos in 1990's to early 2000's were being run by VITO/NICK SR. with paolo renda et al as well. VITO as well as his father although leaders also had members/associates who reported direct to them, effectivley the bosses/leaders having a crew. so i would lump j.r.f and even r. desjardins into this group. V.R. had a crew he did business with and he ran the family. so i dont see the proof that j.r.f or desjardins were ever anything more than associates, albeit perhaps two that has direct ear of the boss, this scenario in mafia history is not even rare actually...hugh mcintosh, jimmy coonan etc.

there is ample proof of fernandez operating in toronto for the rizzutos in early 2000's but this activity ceased to exist upon his may 2002 arrest. fernandez was not on bail awaiting sentencing on street. so how he could have continued his influence on streets for rizzutos from jail i do not know.crews can be run from jail i know but j.r.f. was part of a crew at this time not the leader of a crew. the easiest solution upon his arrest was simply to replace him. also while imprisoned he faced constant pressure to be deported again which he and his lawyers delayed until sentence was over. and the same stories are trod out in all 4 of those books...the engraved watch from VITO, what fernandez called him out of respect etc. but those antidotes arent proof of much. most evidence points to j.r.f as being closer to desjardins and some qc HA members or rockers mc at this time...early 2000's.

after j.r.f's deportation and subsequent arrival in sicily i think his alliance becomes easier to distinguish. it is said he was ordered by V.R. to a couple meetings like other members were after VITO was released. for whatever reason these requests were denied by j.r.f that is telling in and of itself. if these 2 were so close and j.r.f was considered a member then when the boss tells you to come in you come in. also where fernandez decided to operate in sicily is telling. if he was still indeed allied with VITO then would agrigento area not be a better spot. cattolica eraclea or there abouts. instead he sets up in bagheria working under sergio flamia a recently inducted member of that cosca. j.r.f continued to run drug exports from sicily into the hamilton/gta area while in bagheria. notice the exports were not going direct to montreal a possible destination if indeed he was still allied with the rizzuto faction. possible drugs were re routed north after? then he and his associate pimentel are murdered by same scaduto bros once operating in toronto. this part is confusing only because the scadutos when in toronto would have been against pietro scarcella in that infamous drive by shooting. one of scarcella's children had VITO as its godfather and scarcella has long been linked to the rizzutos. alas 9 years is a long time and scaduto bros loyalty could have changed as i am not sure of inter family disputes of bagheria cosca at this time but i believe there was contested leadership. i would put the hit on j.r.f et al in the likely ordered by V.R. category with possibility it had to do with inter family politics and perhaps VITO only gave blessing.

this was longer than intended...gotta go take kids to dentist...more on ranieri next.

thanks for all the thoughts as well everyone...today so far is a good day.

So all the way from 1979-1990 Juan Fernandez was incarcerated? Where did he ever find the time to work for Vito Rizzuto if he was always locked up? I'm surprised that we even have that iconic photo where Fernandez and Rizzuto are seated next to each other all suited up (one of my favorite mob pics by the way).

I also never once believed that Juan Fernandez was Vito's right hand man for the whole organization. But Vito was a skilled leader, he probably told certain individuals like Fernandez and Desjardins that they were his right hand men for a particular task at hand and they probably felt honored to be called that. Whether they believed it is another story.
And yes I agree with you on the the hits of J.R.F and AL.

It must of taken you a lot of time to gather all that information. Thanks for sharing.

well liggio there ya go. simplest answer is probably the easiest. fernandez never was V.R.'S #2 because of amount of time incarcerated for sure thats a reason. a seasoned, schooled sicilian mafia member making an oft imprisoned associate his overall #2 ridiculous. oh i thought desjardins was #2..no no its joe dimaulo...hold on valentino morielli...no its whats his name vincenzo spagnolo. just to show a few names that have been glossed with this title by media and police.

not so much the time to gather but remembering where to find it, and if anything i wrote down years ago made any sense.

https://www.therecord.com/vito-rizz...a509a11-1185-58a2-99e1-6105ce537e27.html

VitoCahill I have proof that Juan Fernandez was not Vito's right hand man. Look at the picture and tell me which side of Vito is Fernandez sitting at.

onto daniele ranieri. his loyalty only lies with juan fernandez full stop. in this case making ranieri the #2 of a high ranking associate nothing more never inducted...despite the large omerta tattoo on his back allegedly.

ranieri's first major arrest i can find was part of an online gambling network based in ottawa, ontario.
a certain daniele ranieri, 28 yrs old of bolton, ontario was arrested in sept 2012 as part of proj amethyst. the leader of this network was benedetto manaserri a then known associate of vittorio mirarchi. i dont believe ranieri ever faced charges in this case or was sentenced as he was indicted and subsequently went on the run come proj forza arrests dec 2014.
so as of sept 2012 i would put ranieri as being allied with mirarchi and those looking after mirarchis rackets while he was imprisoned by this time for murder of salvatore montagna. the direct connection back to montreal for this gambling network is as of now still unknown but my money would be on manaserri or antonio guido.

when indicted in dec 2014 the ranieri mentioned was, 30 years old of bolton,ontario.
at this time ranieri was operating a small crew in toronto reporting direct to juan fernandez after j.r.f's april 2012 deportation. there is no evidence of ranieri reporting to anyone else in toronto or montreal.

i cannot find the article or transcript from trial but i can remember informant carmine guido mentioning ranieri on a wiretap. carmine guido was part of giuseppe ursino led 'ndrangheta cell. guido mentions ranieri putting vaseline on his face when doing a hit so gun powder residue doesnt stick, something crazy like that. but it was interesting to note that ranieri was known in this circle of 'ndrangheta members/associates. it did not say that ranieri did hits for ursino but it gave the impression that perhaps ranieri now operated closer to toronto 'ndrangheta groups then not so much montreal.

so i would say ranieri stayed loyal and allied to fernandez right up to his murder in 2013. after that considering the media and police suggested that fernandez was ordered murdered by V.R. i doubt he would then continue to operate in toronto and now be paying money back to rizzuto. more likely he sought safe haven with one or more of the 'ndrangheta groups and told to lay off revenge. there is no evidence of ranieri or anyone attempting vengeance for fernandez so someone influential must have been holding him back or his 2014 indictment came too quick. all crimes alleged in 2014 indictment took place in toronto NOT mtl as well.

there is also the case of one justin mcpolin arrested in 2014 proj forza. an ex hockey player and money collecter/enforcer was recently arrested along with an associate of benedetto manasseri, james kongkhaw. kongkhaw,mcpolin and david lafontaine were arrested dec 2022 for smuggling weapons across border. kongkhaw and manasseri are directors of an active company. so an ex ranieri associate is now working possibly for manasseri, someone who ranieri possibly was allied with. just trying to show the possibility that once the ranieri crew fell apart upon indictment in 2014 some members still knew where to cast allegiance. not a biggie as ranieri, manasser and mcpolin are all associates.

i will dig back into ranieri's possible allegiance at time of a.musitano and barberi murders as it has been a while and most evidence has come out now...stay tuned.

Good work, you would make a good investigator.

thanks ciment.

after going on run after indictment in 2014 rumors spread as to ranieris whereabouts. some place him in cuba, the d.r. or mexico. if he learnt anything from his mentor fernandez it may have been how to get into and out of canada undetected, very easy apparently. lets assume he went direct to mexico and communicated with associates from there. we will never know with technology and encryption where he made calls from and really at this stage in the game it does not matter.

but this group of 4 men...ranieri, michael cudmore, daniel tomassetti and jabril abdalla have only been linked to 2 murders, angelo musitano and mila barberi. she was clearly not the intended target. saverio serrano son of diego was wounded i believe in the shooting. to the best of my knowledge the musitano have no connection to the serrano family. best evidence would suggest the violi/luppino family of hamilton ordered hit on angelo. the same violi/luppino group would have no cause to target the serranos. i do not believe that ranieri et crew were going total cowboy and willy nilly taking out random OC figures in toronto/hamilton. ranieri above anyone else would not have the ability to be picky about what jobs he was being offered and for how much. as i stated above any racket his small crew had going at time of 2014 indictment was gone upon ranieri fleeing. so i can see the violi/luppino family reaching out to cudmore possibly, someone from hamilton to set this hit up. the reasons for the hit on saverio serrano on the other hand remain less clear. i do not know which if any 'ndrangheta group diego serrano belongs to or works for. i have always thought of diego, the father as being an independent importer/broker for cocaine. if anyone has knowledge about serrano and where his allegiance may lye that would at least eliminate a possible OC group.

so i would not consider ranieri a mtl mafia associate post april 2013 murder of fernandez. i think he became an oft used debt collecter/muscle, hitman and associate of different toronto based 'ndrangheta groups. there also would be no connect or link left in mtl with most of all desjardins/mirarchi and most close associate either dead or imprisoned. i liken ranieri to how frederick silva operated in montreal.

an aside the terms that the media and police use to describe both mafia in mtl and toronto have caused way too much confusion when trying to distinguish who is who and what is what. to state, lazily, i may add that anyone from mtl that is mafia is a "rizzuto" or "sicilian", "calabrian" ,god even "cotroni" is just lazy and wrong. many in the media and law enforcement must by now be aware generally what groups say actually still exist, although this is canada so maybe not.
i dont think when we say with "the rizzutos" we can just assume then that that person lines up with THE RIZZUTO/SOLLECITO FACTION. it has turned into such a lunch bucket catch all term along with "cotroni group/family"...lets be honest there is no longer any functioning crew group or anything left in montrela being led by a cotroni.
i have expressed my views on sicilian vs calabrian before i will not do again but that term has been overused and quite wrongly ta boot.

Hey Vito, thanks for all of your research and responses. Two questions, if Fernandez wasn't really anyone that important, why was he killed in Sicily? And my next question is, do you know where I can find a complete list of all of these Canadian gangland murders as well as the most likely motives and groups behind them?

fernandez was killed by the scaduto bros, pietro and salvatore along with help from a giuseppe carbone (i think). carbone cooperated and evidence he gave was that it was part of the larger mtl mafia war. all of which could be 100% true, as i stated though the possibility exists that it was part of an internal bagheria cosca conflict over leadership. i can attempt to find old info on this if you like. and whether he was important or not my bigger issue has long been his alleged rank and titles bestowed on someone who only ever could be deemed an associate.

as far as that list, man theres many out there on the weeb, some good some terrible full of over inflated numbers of murders that have nothing to do with the wars in montreal. also there has been a tendency among these lists to mix in murders from ontario/toronto and elsewhere that again...HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE WARS. i digress, i can search around for a good list to start with and go from there but a bit of a daunting task.

It can be murders from Ontario/Toronto as long as they're organized crime related. But if it was due to, say, a love triangle or some kid killed his dad for the insurance money, I could care less about that. But yes please be on the lookout for the best one you can find, it will be greatly appreciated.

As for Fernandez, my guess is that it was due to the Mafia War in Montreal. I don't see why he would be killed over an internal Mafia conflict in Bagheria when he wasn't even a member, much less anywhere close to the administration. Another question is, what the fuck was he doing in Sicily anyway? Was he sent there and then set up to be killed? Very strange.

just posted on 2 older threads that have lists. again these are a good starting point but new information has come out since some of this was posted. also as i said some of these lists are very comprehensive almost to a fault. i think to do it proper you would first have to separate montreal/qc and toronto/on. this was not nor is it to this day one large all encompassing war covering the totality of the province of quebec to southern ontario/niagara falls... its just not. i mean that would be like saying any and all murders related to bikers in ny state are directly related to any and all biker murders in new jersey. i'm gonna take a look this weekend i cant promise anything this is a task and a half.

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1054692

a link to an old thread post.