How arrogant was Tony Spilotro in his final days?

So for some reason Tony Spilotro really rubs me the wrong way. He comes off as cocky and arrogant and just a "I don't give a fuck about no one else and don't give a fuck what they say" type of guy. A guy that would snicker at Mob higher ups if they told him to cool his shit and stop fucking around.

I guess thats why he got whacked right? I used to think he was alright but honestly the guy got what he deserved. A total prick and fucking cocksucker.

I dont understand why he wasnt killed after the bomb under Rosenthal car and the affair with his wife.

He definitely accumulated a lot of power from the early to mid 70's into the 80's. I've always wondered how he even got the nod to be 'the guy' out in Vegas. I know he had strong relationships with some of the top dogs in the outfit, but he was never a crew boss and was pretty inexperienced to be given something as big and lucrative as Las Vegas. I'd imagine there were guys who were way more capable, but clearly the man had a lot influence and respect...until he didn't.

He probably thought he was untouchable because of the close relationship he had with outfit heavyweight Joey Lombardo. Until Lombardo went to prison. When Joey was on the lam and went to Tony's brother Patrick, a dentist in the suburbs of Chicago where Joey was being treated for an abscess he told Pat that had he not been in jail they wouldn't have knocked down Tony and Micheal. I think Tony would have been dead in prison or natural causes soon enough had he not been murdered, he had a lot of health problems with a bad heart and a heavy smoker.

First off, all mob guys are fucking scumbag people. Second off, if you followed Family Secrets closely, it was clear Michael and Tony knew they may not be returning from a meeting they had. Both were facing indictments - Tony with significantly heavy time. They weren't stupid - they had seen this before multiple times. That's why Michael left all the jewelry and valuables and had his bank accounts arranged ahead of time - same thing with his older brother. So this 'arrogant cocky guy' who apparently in your view was 'unloyal' went to a meeting where he knew there was a chance he wouldn't walk out - he went because he was ordered to.

Tony may have made money under the table and caused problems and issues - but he followed his orders until the very end. He came when they called him. If he was that arrogant, cocky and unroyal, he would have run to the FBI and he'd be enjoying his grandkids today. I'm friends with that family - they will tell you the exact same thing. The Outfit extorted both widows years later ironically for a bar owned on "Rush Street" that was part of the Sam DeStefano Jr. indictment in the early 90s - these mob guys are all cocksuckers.

Lets say Spilotro never gets whacked. How much longer would he have lasted before he was sentenced to a very long prison term? How many years would he have gone away for?

The bosses in Chicago killed him because apart damage the skimming was afraid that ge cpuld flip to avoid a long prison sentence.
RushStreet for sure burglary but the mole in his crew for sure could link Spilotro to a murder so the ant risked to get life in max security prison.

Spilotro wasnt a smart moneymaker because before going to AZ (yes he was in AZ first before going to Vegas), most of his gambling ops in Chicago were on the downfall and I dont think that he was ever involved in union racketeering (unless i missed or forgot something). Spilotro's main rackets was the burglary business, car-theft, narcotics, loan sharking (to an extent) and above all, murder.

Spilotro had the stomach to torture people in the worst ways and also killed everyone on the Outfit's orders, obviously because he had the best mentors for the jobs such as Chuck Nicoletti, Mad Sam and Milwaukee Phil. Thats why I personally believe when someone says that Spilotro was one of the youngest Outfit guys who was feared by many members and associates within the organization and so thats the type of psycho that the bosses needed to watch over their interests in Vegas, and all of the Midwest guys knew about Spolotro's reputation and so they werent able to fuck around with the Outfit's interests.

The same thing was with Marshall Caifano who was Vegas rep before both Roselli and Spilotro. I mean Caifano wasnt some big time moneymaker but instead he knew how to kill people in the most brutal way and also knew how the handle bombs. So his murderous reputation preceded him both in Chicago and around the country, and thats why Caifano was sent to Vegas. Again, same situation as Spilotro's. And Roselli was also no different, meaning shooting street lights with his pistol while driving girls in his car along the Vegas strip, makes you wonder on how much power this guy had in "Sin City" at the time?!

The so-called Battaglia/Grand Av "Outfit" (Alderisio, Nicoletti, Caifano, the DeStefanos, the Spilotros Tony and Vic) was quite feared and respected during those days and thats why later Lombardo inherited all of this and became one of the most respected capos and representative on the Outfit's board of reps or directors.

On top of that it seems that during the 60's some type of close relations occurred between the Grand Av crew and the Elmwood Park group under Accardo, Cerone, Gagliano and DeBiase. It seems DeBiase from the EP crew was allegedly a mentor of many members including Joey Lombardo (Grand Av), and during the 70s many Grand Av members used joints as their headquarters which were owned by EP members such as Cerone and John DiFronzo. Later we have info that Andriacchi (EP) was allegedly related through marriage with Lombardo. So maybe this close connection also somehow influenced on Accardo and Cerone to choose Spilotro (Grand Av) as their rep in Vegas.

In addition, I think the late Frank Cullotta once mentioned that if Spilotro stayed in Chicago, he was going to be the capo for the Grand Av crew instead of Lombardo. And Cullotta allegedly said that this was revealed to him by Spilotro himself.

Frank also claimed that Tony "made" him in Vegas though. After years of saying he never wanted to be a made guy in the Outfit and Tony never had the power to make guys in the first place. I think Frank did a little historical editing in his favor to make himself a bit more important and close to Tony than he was in real life being the last man standing and all. Gotta come up with content for the YT channel. Although I can totally see Spilotro being made Captain...isn't that partially what got him and Micheal to go to that meeting where they were killed? Tony getting upped and Mike getting made?

One thing about Cullota is he was full of shit on a lot of things.

I think Cullottas first interviews and reports that were given to the feds as evidences were probably spot on.....later when the showbiz arrived like movies and youtube vids, Cullotta changed his style and some of his stories Lol

Thats right It didnt register until it was posted above.That was infact what they were told.Tony was being bumped up and Michael was being made.Lombardo may have already been in prison for strawman or one of the cases cant remember which so maybe the Ant was being told acting captain.But Spilotro had gotten away with so much including having the affair with Rosenthal's girl he must have been extremely arrogant.One of his crew members was pulled over and shot by the cops it seems he had made threats toward shooting it out with the police.i believe he thought he couldnt be touched/

+1

Thank you Toodoped I did a little editing afterward but any +1 from you is much appreciated you are the Outfit guy here as far as I'm concerned.Yeah Culllata said the bosses back home,i assume he meant Auippa,Cerone Lombardo,Whoever,had called him to Chicago and asked if he was sleeping with Lefty's wife.I dont believe that really I doubt he was that important for the bosses to call in

Thanks for the kind words bud and the same respect goes to you since we are all here to contribute regarding these "complicated" situations within the Chicago syndicate.

I have info from the 1970s in which we can see Spilotro having meetings and telephone calls with Cerone, Giancana, Alex and obviously with Lombardo who in turn was his capo. Lombardo was also a killer but not like Spilotro, although it seems Lombardo had the brains for business and thats why he was given authority over Allen Dorfman.

Interesting to note is the 1974/75 meetings with Spilotro, Cerone and Giancana. We dont have info on what was discussed during the meeting/meetings but it is interesting that Giancana was former boss (some sources say possibly still concidered official), Cerone was senior advisor since he recently got out of prison and was "forced" to take Alex's position for a short time period, and Spilotro was already a Vegas rep at the time.

Regarding Spilotro allegedly sleeping with Lefty's wife...I agree with you since even though Lefty was allegedly a "connected" associate, still I doubt that the bosses cared if a made guy fucked the wife of an associate, although if you look at the situation from a different angle or point of view, Lefty was still their main operator and he needed to feel both protected and respected.

Regarding the rule of sleeping with a made member's wife or girlfriend...i dont think the Chi guys respected the rule since Giancana was fucking "every" female, including the wives of made members and theres a rumour that Giancana allegedly slept with Spilotros wife, too So maybe one of the meetings between Giancana and Spilotro was all about it?! Lol Just kidding but who knows...

The only story I personally know is "Sambo" aka "Blackie" Cesario allegedly being killed because he married former mistress of Phil Alderisio, who in turn was already dead at the time. Story goes that Cesario even asked and received the ok from Alderisio, before the old west side boss died in jail. This was said by Outfit associate Jerry Denono but I personally found the story a little bit suspicious.

When the feds tried to force Marshall Caifano to cooperate saying that his wife was fucking with Giancana,Caifano smiled and shortly after become the Outifit man in Vegas.

Spilotro didn't need a bomb to kill someone...And whenever a beef comes down between an Italian and a jew regarding his wife, who do you think they're gonna side with ?? Unless they wanna use that as an excuse to kill him !!

He was good in his younger years, as he got older, his stories were obviously made up and didn't even think he was a rat anymore, so he had to educate people what a rat really is !!

I have his book Cullotta I actually enjoyed it.

yeah I wouldnt doubt Nancy Spilotro had an affair or 2.Lombardo a straight killer indeed.i am pretty sure he was one of the Seifert shooters pretty much done in front of his family.the guy was ruthless really.i love the wiretap or bug,whatever when he tells Shenker that he wouldnt reach his next bday.He tells him that he could fight the system if you want and I may go to prison but you will die.Not an exact quote but pretty much how it went.But that Shenker had balls he talked some shit back to Lombardo he didnt like being spoken to like that at all man.I cant remember if he was ever convicted of the Seifert killing

. Let's think about this: If Joe Pesci did not play him in Casino, orin Scorsese did not make the movie, no one would talk this much of Spilatro. His background comes more from rumors generated from the movie and book, bolstered by the rumors spread by people who barley knew him over the past 20 years.

No joke, I seen a documentary about the Seifert killing and one of his sons even said Lombardo was his Godfather.

According to some "new" FBI records Seifret was labelled as Outfit associate, meaning theres a huge possibility that Seifret consciously knew in what type of situation he was involed in. So it is quite possible that we still dont know all the details regarding the Lombardo-Seifret situation, besides what Seifret's family says.

Disagree as the biggest Chicago mob trial in the last 2 decades centered around him and his bro being murdered. He was a pretty big deal in Vegas as well in the 70s and 80. Casino may have played it up a bit, but Spilotro was a pretty strong force in that life in his heyday.

This. By all reports Seifert knew what we he was involved in.

Did you ever come across Tony Spilotro interceeding against a NYC family in Vegas? I also found those wiretaps of him and Agosto from KC talking - they try to talk Italian and Spilotro has trouble understanding - admits he doesn't speak it well. Thought that was kind of interesting and frankly - something he would have lost respect for.

No, I personally never came across some example with Spilotro interceeding against some New Yorkers, although Im not saying that theres no info about it somwhere out there.

Yeah I also heard all of those tapes, and I also agree regarding the funny situation in which Spilotro didnt understand Italian. I also find it funny Spilotro having a very deep voice for such a short fella lol.

Regarding Spilotro not knowing Italian...he wasnt the only Chicago member who didnt understand Italian since in one of our previous convos in a different thread I already mentioned regarding Giancana attending some commission meeting on which most representatives talked in Italian, while Giancana was allegedly making faces because he didnt understand most of the convo. Heres the file and I think the convo is between two Genovese big shots...also for me this is one of the most interesting files out there...like the info that Giancana was possibly against the Strollo hit...

Michael Franzese once claimed he met Spilotro a few times in Vegas. Probably not true, but he did claim it on one of his podcast episodes.

Did you see an interview or video of him that gives you that opinion?

Yeah I agree that as time passes by most of those old mob youtube guys are making up stories for views and shit, but I personally dont see anything strange if a capo or made guy or even associate from New York who visited Vegas during those days, possibly met Spilotro. Afterall the Ant's job was to watch over those members or visitors as "potential danger" regarding Chicagos interests.

Oh yeah, I'm positive he ran into and had interactions with many guys. I just always take everything Franzese says with a grain of salt. Snake oil salesman.

He said he knew Gravano and Gravano said he didn't know him...I'd bet the house he never went for a walk talk with The Chin, and I doubt he knew Roy DeMeo....He's a serial liar, who just has a good bs line !!

How Arrogant might be relative but it is not given there was a John Gotti: hence, Spilotro not arrogant.

I would whole heartedly agree with that.

I completely agree with you.

He's lucky he adopted the surname Franzese, or he woulda ended up washing cars for a living.