Bikers vs Mob Rumor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvUc1aOzlJM

One thing is clear from reading the comments, a lot of people truly live in a fantasy world and are detached from reality.

What a bullshit story, he's just making shit up for his cringey fans at this point.

In 1984 the Pagans over loaded with 200 bullets the home of chuckie merlino's mother because chuckie beaten up a biker and was refusing to pay the hospital bills.
The bikers are crazy.

Bikers are crazy because they can afford to be crazy. When was the last time you heard of a multiple-murdering top biker going free in exchange for selling out his organization? Exactly, the Federal government doesn't have anywhere near the hard-on for bikers that they have for LCN. Not too mention they outnumber even the largest LCN family 10 to 1.

Not that I care, but he's a mafia channel guy right? So why would that story be for his fans?

There are many examples of that. The difference is the lack of overall criminality compared to the mafia.

It sounds completely made up, like he's just coming up with bullshit for views. That's how I feel and I'm entitled to my feelings. If you wanna believe his bs that's also your prerogative.

I don't know of any examples, much less many. And what do you mean lack of overall criminality compared to the Mafia? Like the mob commits more crimes than bikers?

Lol its the fucking mafia dude!

If you want to compare bikers to that, then you have to go to Canada.

Outlaw Bikers are social outlaws; there is a contingent of professional criminals within, but most bikers, aside from user amount of narcotics violations and barroom-brawl style assaults, work jobs and raise families. This alone has made it very difficult for the government to dis-assemble. Read Scott Burnstein's blog and you'll become aware of many arrests and informants. The government - FBI - is now prodding Australia, New Zealand and LE in other countries to create laws that would liquidate the biker franchise - that is their colors. Once camaraderie via the logo begins to fade, so will the "brotherhood"; same thing with prison gangs - isolate so they can't organize, recruit and train.

It's important to understand the government is not targeting the bikers for the criminality as it is on a small scale - yes, very small. They are targeting groups that live outside societal norms; that is, anyone that does not Need the government. Do you believe the FBI targets survival groups to truly uncover the instances of sexual abuse? The sexual abuse is to get the general public buy-in; what the government is targeting is self-sufficiency.

The Endangered Species Act in NW U.S. to get those loggers out: can't have a self-sufficient society without tolls so we can surveil you.

yes in canada there is an alliance between some mafia groups in MTL and members of the MTL hells angels chapter.
but not all mafia cells in MTL work w/ the HA or only w/ the MTL chapter.

one alliance revealed in project hobart 2019 was between the figliomeni locale in toronto and members/associates of the london,ontario HA chapter.
but again not every 'ndrangheta group works with the HA or bikers at all.

and to be honest for the most part theses alliances work very well and historically produce vast amounts of money.

some american mafia families should take a page out of the canadian mafias book and do the same. along the east coast the numbers of chapters popping up has only been increasing in the last few years among the pagans especially.

some families have shown before that they would work with the pagans mc,one being the philadelphia family.the name steve mondevegine comes to mind i believe he has recently been installed as pres of a chapter in the philadelphia area. he has long been an associate of joseph merlino boss of the family.

the pagans mc has also been expanding across the state of new jersey swallowing up territory quite possibly becoming the dominant OC group in the state.
with that being said at some point the mafia families that operate in NJ will have to work with the pagans.

and working with another group even bikers should not be viewed as such a bad thing. bikers generally are more ready to perform the street level muscle that todays average mafia member doesn't or will not perform.as was mentioned above most bikers will take a pinch and the jail time offering another layer of insulation for a mafia member.comments on this forum about todays mafia soldier being soft,too old,lazy,stupid,extinct you name it abound.
so why wouldn't a soldier or associate use bikers or street gangs to do the work that they will not?

as has been established on this site the number of active mafia members on the east coast is slowly going down.
the areas that the mafia had historically operated in/controlled is shrinking.
in order for some mafia families to still maintain influence in these areas they will need to make alliances w/ other families,biker mc and even street gangs.

i realize this is just a theory and not one shared by many on this forum but the mafia members across ontario and quebec came to this conclusion a long time ago.
the canadian mafia also came to the conclusion that creating alliances with the HA is a much better business decision than fighting them for territory.

I agree with you Vito, and Detroit you made a valid point too I strongly believe that the government cares more about keeping everyone dependent, has nothing to do with some holier-than-thou anti-crime shit.

The number of members in Jersey, at least from surveillance of a wake, average in age about 70 years old. There's not much remaining.

But old men attend wakes of other old men they came up with, younger guys could care less. I don't think this means anything.

Did anyone else get the feeling the rat was telling this story as an alternative to what happened in A Bronx Tale? He seemed to be so happy the bikers did well in this story.

Yes!!!..if u read Sammy bulls wiki..(which I don't adhere to)..it does state that the same situation happened back in the day (70 s)??..maybe?..anyways..u r right jace..good call.

Thank you. That was the story were Gravano tells how he shot the teen who jumped in to defend a biker, it was a good story.
As for the video the topic is about, I was wondering if it was jus the thinking of the scene in Bronx Tale.

MMmmm....".let me sleep on it.. baby baby let me sleep on it....i give u the answer in the mornin'"...

Anyone in the world: some bikers beat up some mafia guys.

The internet: not possible. I saw A Bronx Tale.

You got that right! I dislike when I'm discussing any topic with a person and they start making their points based on a movie or television series they saw.

People are nuts. With the Brinx Tale scene they seem to even think in a real life fight of those guys in the scene the "gangsters" would still win lol.

So it would be actors vs the "bikers " who were actually Real Hells Angels Chuck Zito hooked up with the part. I think in his book chuck said the red haired one was killed in a bike crash almost immediately afterwards. Might have been racing a train or something, I can't remember.

I don't believe his story, just a nobody rat trying to keep an audience.

Bikers are a bunch of pussy hooligans compared to hardcore wiseguys. The Genovese are hardcore wiseguys. Now if they did get beat up I don’t see this one sliding…

I was waiting for someone to mention Chuck Zito because when he was with Hell's Angels NYC he was tight with a lot of Mobsters. Hell's Angels HQ in the Lower East Side was probably less than 15 blocks away from the Ravenite. Here's an image of Chuck with Anthony "Bruno Red" Indelicato and Vincent "Vinny Gorgeous" Basciano, he also attended the funeral of John Gotti.

I think there has rarely been fights between them, as for who would win, it would depend on who is there. No group has a claim to being the toughest IMO. in Jimmy (The Rat) Calandra's story, if it is true, both sides stood up for themselves. The bikers had their point, the owners of the restaurant had theirs. So in his story both sides stood up, unlike him.

I agree. Unless there is a lot of things going on that goes unnoticed by anyone, the mob and bikers seem to rarely ever butt heads. I think they generally travel in different circles. Probably a lot know each other from prison, but they're the same race, so I would think they're on the same side there.

Physical force is absolutely irrelevant.

Keith “Conan” Richter can easily kill Dom Cefalù with his bare hands.

So?

Bikers, except for some out of Canada, aren’t exactly the brightest bunch. I could see them stomping someone without thinking of the consequences and then ending up in a ditch because their victim was well connected.

Story time:

This happened when a biker laid his hands on an Albanian whose cousin I used to be friends with. This Albanian ended up in a hospital, bad brain damage I was told, and that biker thought he won that battle. He wasn’t fully patched (or whatever they call a biker made guy) but was an hang around. Too bad that is irrelevant to most hardcore guys. So then the whole blood clan of the victim went out hunting for the cracker. His body was found in his garage, with swollen blue Mickey Mouse hands that were tied up and with messed up facial features. As far as I know the Albos were never bothered by the dead guy’s crew. They were moving stuff so they weren’t exactly civilians. My friend told me they couldn’t care less if the “leather f^gs” were going after them because they would put them all in the ground.

This was in Michigan in the late 90s.

Cool story bro.

Also, this one time...at band camp...

Another tough guy comes out of the closet. Woo hoo.

Go beat some pagans up. They're not hard to find. Post pics of their cuts with you pissing on them after you stripped em. Come on, we need some action around here!

I don't by any means think that bikers are pussies, I just question his story.

Any statement as far as bikers are this, or bikers are that, is totally ridiculous.

What IS a biker anyway? Everyone has their own definition and most don't have a fucking clue to begin with.

According to NBC a biker gang member is an unsigned rap singer riding a Honda 4 wheeler up and down an inner city sidewalk.

It very well could be bullshit. I may be wrong, but that is a wiseguy type youtuve channel though, so him telling that story to gain viewers or loyalty makes no sense. It makes the opposite of sense.

In this day and age, any pussy asshole can be a wannabe mma fighter who trains, and might actually be pretty tough. Guy next to you at the diner. The nerd at the bus station. We have no clue.

Yet it's just unbelievable to think a few guys who are out riding motorcycles at up to 100 mph in city traffic couldn't beat up a couple Phil Leonettis and Junior Gottis at a chance encounter in a restaurant?

I see them down here in FL. all the time, Outlaws and Pagans. Here some pics I took of Pagans on US 27 southbound headed towards Clermont.

I saw one solo this summer on the Garden State Parkway.

It's not that I believe it couldn't happen, I just don't believe it did happen.

Why I love outlaw bikers and the mob? They will never let transgenders join. They also arent politically correct.

If it's true about the Pagans doing a nationwide expansion as well as working with LA Eme and the Latin Kings, as well as Mongols mc, we'll probably be seeing lots more Pagans busts and news articles.

Sounds like the same thing Doc Cavasos did as leader of the mongols before he got kicked out bad and went to prison, only on a much bigger scale.

Conan Richter began the so-called "Blue Wave"expansion upon taking the helm of the Pagans.

Among other things,he named a Hispanic man ("Zorro Nieves) as the Nat'l Vice President,which is a Mother Club level position.
The expectation is that Zorro would be the liaison with street gangs,as well as smaller MC's, which are "patched over" to the Pagans.
With Richter back in prison,the new acting President has continued this strategy.

The Mongols MC ( a primarily Hispanic club), is also aligning themselves with the Pagans.and the two clubs are opening chapters in each others territories.
Many old school Pagans,as well as hardcore members are leaving the Club mainly for two reasons.

1) The club has never accepted or actively recruited Non-White members.
2) A lot of the smaller Hispanic clubs are not earning their patches by prospecting, but instead are getting them handed to them.

To be fair,a lot of Clubs that patch over,don't have to prospect, but this is usually seen among the 1% Clubs.
The reasoning is that if you have earned your Diamond ,you are respected enough to be allowed to bypass the prospecting period for another Club.

I believe that the Pagans will continue the expansion, and we will see more violence as they do.

The real test is going to come if they start trying to make inroads in California.
I don't see the Angels letting that happen.

This is just my opinion,but it seems like the major 1% Clubs are getting serious about going against the Angels.
They are the top of the heap in the MC world,and I think some Clubs are tired of being second fiddle to them.
Mind you,the Angels aren't going anywhere,and overall 'they will always be the best of the best,but I think some Clubs just want to chip away at them,and maybe take a bigger piece of their territories,and rackets.

I was hoping you'd chime in, Lou. I also saw it says Richter took over by force. Did you ever hear any details on that?

I heard there are some Pagans in Arizona now. If that's true it could kind of be their test run for California. Now that barger went back to California there is some speculation everybody is going to open up shop there and 81 will lose their grip on the state. Arizona, that is.

One thing that has surprised me over the years is how it sounds like since the 80s the Bandidos were the true overall powerhouse, but they stayed below the radar. They were apparently the ones back in the 80s (I think) that called 81 and the Outlaws together to establish some territory lines to curb problems. And neither club pushed back against them.

Also I'm sure I saw a story once that George Wegers son got roughed up in Sturgis one year by some Angels and Weger and crew went to the Angels and he basically picked Barger up off the ground by his collar in front of everyone and they took it.

The bikers could swallow the Mafia if they wanted to, but due to the mob's ability to corrupt and infiltrate the political and business world, it would be more beneficial to strike an alliance with them.

What do you guys think will happen in NYC with the Pagan's president killed there and no retaliation yet? What a hot spot to be in there they probably can't strike back yet without all going to prison but its kinda hard to push an offensive into new territories when your NYC is KIA by an 81 death squad and unavenged? Its not that they wouldn't strike back, we know they've got the shooters and commitment but for whatever reason they haven't yet...

It's a bit convoluted,but here are the broad strokes of the Richter/Katona saga

Conan pushed Michael Trone out of the top seat in 2017
Trone,was Sergeant-at Arms under former Pres David Barbeito.
In June 2003, Trone and Barbeito went to St. Albans WV and forced the chapter brass to surrender their colors. Trone pleaded no contest to kidnapping charges and got five years suspended sentence
Black Bart was indicted for racketeering in 2009, convicted and stepped down as Pres. Katona succeeded Trone as Sergeant at Arms, then became boss for two years until he was nailed in 2011 on drug and weapons charges.
A guy named James (Jersey Jim) Coles became boss with the understanding that it was a temporary arrangement, and was really an acting Boss .Trone took over in 2013. Richter by then had finished his Racketeering and attempted murder sentence and was back on the scene.
After Trone stepped down, Richter was voted in by the membership as the Pagan’s new national president..

Rooster, by then was still a Member,but didn't hold any rank,due to his drug case and ongoing legal (and newsworthy) battles. Upon Richter taking power, Rooster, who really didn’t like the direction that Conan was taking the Pagans started his own Club, the Sutars Soldiers. He also was very upset that other Pagan’s snitched on him in his drug case. He took a few other old school guys with him..
After he left, Conan declared him “out bad”.
There is no love lost between the two.
If you check out the Sutarssoldiersmc Facebook page, and go back in the archives, you can find some of Roosters more interesting comments about Mr. Richter.

Once these relationships with the Latin kings and Mexican mafia are solidly on the record, these guys are all fucked. They are all gonna get Rico'd up the ass left and right.

No jury in this country is gonna believe they're anything other than a malicious criminal organization. When pictures of co-conspirators are Mexicans covered in face tattoos with the kinds of records those guys have? Game over.

This whole thing is literally a prosecutor's wet dream.

It also makes you wonder about younger guys following this plan. Richter will be 65 when he gets out this time. They're following an old guy on his final winds over a cliff. An interview with Richter would be fascinating though.

It all just seems, literally, like a plan to destroy the Pagans. Of course, I could be completely wrong.

You make some good points Alice.
Although it is not unusual for 1% Clubs to absorb and patch over other smaller MC's, lining up with established OC groups is a whole "nother ball game.
I would guess that if they are 1/2 smart,they'll conduct their activities the same way they do with some of the Italian mob Families,i.e. trading of favors,and exchanging pieces of rackets back and forth.etc.

Having said that,(and I'm not trying to be funny) Richter is on the way to becoming the John Gotti of the 1%er biker world.
A lot of the regular rank and file Pagans are absolutely fine with Richter,and look at him as preserving the Pagan legacy.

One thing to bear in mind is that the Pagans have always been content with having the "most violent gang" crown.
Compared to the other big Clubs,they are low income generators,have no significant presence or businesses outside of the US,and still rely heavily on the basic rackets,like Meth,Strip Clubs,Strong arm stuff,bike thefts,small time extortion,etc.
It's almost a badge of honor to say "'We're not the richest gang,but we're the baddest".

Richter is the prototype of the old school,hardcore biker,and the membership loves him.

The Pagans always were the most prominent MC Club on Long Island. In recent years the HA are giving them a run for their money. But decades ago the HA were strong in Lower Manhattan where they owned a building that housed their clubhouse, and the Pagans had representation in Queens and especially out in Suffolk County.

Aside from their main bases in PA, NJ, MD, etc. They were always a northeastern corridor club. They weren't elsewhere like Florida, midwest, etc.

That one article compared him to Taco Bowman as well. I've never seen anyone in writing compared to Bowman so that's saying something.

If the Taco Bowman murder contract via the Detroit Arm is to be believed, it should also register with the reader someone on the Outlaws side was conniving. LCN would never make such a move independently.

when the bikers in that supposed fight are the ages of the guys they fought, and they get into a fight with guys way younger, it will be them on the losing end of the fight. I am assuming these restaurant men were older.

I have still yet read any confirmation, other than Jimmy Calandra.

I had an encounter back in the day with the Pagans in a bar in L.I.

I only went to this joint to support a friends band and the Pagans were the bouncers...

One idiot tried to make a big deal that my hand wasn't stamped...Imagine getting stabbed because your hand wasn't stamped ?? The other guys backed him off

Of all the biker gangs - Big 4 - I'd tag the Pagans as total bullies.

This popped up on my feed a couple of days ago and I thought it was pretty good on 1%'er current events.

Motorcycle gang member arrested on drug, weapon charges in Monroe County
MONROE COUNTY, Fla. – A 26-year-old Key West man who is affiliated with the Pagan’s motorcycle gang was arrested Thursday on firearm and drug charges, authorities confirmed.
According to Monroe County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Adam Linhardt, Austin Christopher Reynolds is the second person with ties to the group to be arrested by the Sheriff’s Office in a week.
Reynolds was taken into custody Thursday following a traffic stop.
According to Linhardt, Reynolds initially fled from a deputy who was patrolling Stock Island when he spotted Reynolds just before 5:15 p.m. on U.S. 1.
Linhardt said the deputy knew Reynolds from previous encounters and knew that he had a suspended driver’s license.
The deputy was unable to keep up with Reynolds’ motorcycle, but he and another deputy searched the area and later found Reynolds near Fifth Avenue and Balido Street, authorities said.
According to Linhardt, the deputies detained Reynolds and found about two grams of cocaine and a large knife in his possession.
They said a .45-caliber pistol was found nearby in the grass, and a witness told them they saw Reynolds throw away the gun as he was fleeing from them
Reynolds was arrested on charges of possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, possession of a weapon by a convicted felon, possession of cocaine, fleeing and eluding, evidence tampering, reckless driving and knowingly driving with a suspended license.
“The Sheriff’s Office remains vigilant in holding all criminals in our community accountable as this case shows,” Sheriff Rick Ramsay said in a statement Friday. “I want to thank the Deputies involved for their great work in this arrest.”
Linhardt said Reynolds has a prior felony drug conviction from 2016 out of Georgia.
He said Reynolds’ fellow gang member, Justin August Meyer, 31, of Key West, was arrested on Jan. 27 following a search warrant of his Staples Avenue home.
About 12 grams of cocaine were found inside his home, along with an AR-15 pistol, a 9mm pistol, 140 rounds of ammunition, $3,310 in suspected drug sales and a digital scale, Linhardt said.
Meyer was arrested on charges of possession of cocaine, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, possession of ammunition by a convicted felon and possession of drug paraphernalia.
A Pagan’s gang member was also arrested in 2019 in Monroe County for allegedly making threats on Facebook.
Linhardt said in that incident, Adam Matthew Miller, 42, of Big Pine Key, posted a photo of himself holding a knife and captioning the picture: “Support Pagan’s MC or else! Support or life support! Sons of the Fire God coming to a neighborhood near you!”

So after outrunning the cops he didn't ditch his coke and picked up a charge for about 2 grams? What is that like $100-150 worth? Ok.

Some of the charges these fucking DA's come up with out to be outright illegal. Felony possession of a gun, ok. But then a second charge possession of a weapon for the same gun. When I was young I got three disorderly conducts for the same incident. Of course two were immediately dropped in court but it's such bullshit. And then they wonder why the public has animosity towards police and the system.

That last part, a guy got arrested for a fucking picture? Remind me never to go to Florida wtf?

Are the Pagans officially set up in Florida or are these guys just down there for the winter?

Back in the '80's it was all Outlaws in Fl. with the Warlocks around Orlando and the east coast. Last twenty or thirty years there's been an increase in Pagans, especially on the west coast between Ft. Myers and Tampa, I read they have a chapter in Pasco county.

Pagans in Florida? I always heard that Florida was Outlaws all the way. Even though the club started in Illinois, Florida is to Outlaws what California is the Hells Angels.

3rd person with ties to motorcycle gang arrested, deputies say
A third person with ties to a motorcycle gang has been arrested, according to the Monroe County Sheriff’s Office.
Deputies took into custody 29-year-old Ryan Alan St. Clair of DeLand, who was arrested for firearms and drug-related violations, deputies said.
St. Clair is affiliated with the Pagan’s motorcycle gang.
St. Clair was charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license, possession of cocaine, possession of marijuana and possession of a controlled substance without a prescription.
A deputy responded to the Bahia Honda Bridge at approximately 7 a.m. regarding a call of a suspicious person under the bridge.
St. Clair was found with two knives visible on his hip. St. Clair was wearing a Pagan’s sweatshirt and ball cap, but had no motorcycle and was alone. St. Clair stated he had an argument with his girlfriend and slept there overnight.
The following were found in St. Clair’s possession following a search: Two knives, a 9mm handgun, a stun gun, two grams of cocaine, four grams of a crystal-like white powder that St. Clair identified as “Molly,” and eight grams of marijuana.
St. Clair was taken to jail.
• Deputies previously arrested Pagan’s member Austin Christopher Reynolds, 26, of Key West on Feb. 3 after fleeing from a Deputy on U.S. 1 on Stock Island. Reynolds was charged with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, possession of a weapon (a large knife) by a convicted felon, possession of cocaine, fleeing and eluding, evidence tampering, reckless driving and knowingly driving with a suspended license.
• Deputies previously arrested Pagan’s member Justin August Meyer, 31, of Key West on Jan. 27 following a search warrant of his Staples Avenue home. Meyer was charged with possession of cocaine, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, possession of ammunition by a convicted felon and possession of drug paraphernalia. About 12 grams of cocaine, an AR-15 pistol, a 9mm pistol, 140 rounds of ammunition, $3,310 in suspected drug sales and a digital scale were found in the residence.