The importance of the today LCN is exaggerated

The La Cosa Nostra or American Mafia is entered in the popolar culture like a movie like Godfellas or Casino and tv series like the Sopranos and today every new arrest or trial against members of the mafia is news but I think its importance in the logic of crime is exaggerated.
Since the 1980s, it no longer plays a prominent role in drug trafficking,is confinate in the East Coast,have less than 700 made men lost most of his rackets and are no long a secret society with the members that flip that can easly turn back to his hoods without any danger.
Today are more dangerous the cartels,the black gangs and the bikers but Tony Soprano have more charm that Jax Teller or Stringer Bell of course the mobsters are still respected but the mob isnt so dangerous out NY.

Same old story, the mob ain't what it used to be, blah blah blah. Everyone knows this, I haven't met one person who thinks otherwise. Those other gangs just aren't interesting, who cares about the drug trade and shitty prostitution, where's the loansharking, illegal gambling, union control and legitimate business infiltration. That's right, those shitbag gangs you mentioned don't have any clout there. Who cares that there's more money in drugs and the cartels make more, still not as fascinating. From what I've seen on Facebook on gangster movie fan pages, Gomorrah is way more popular than Narcos, people will never be as fascinated with the cartels as they are with the mob. Just look at all the rappers who steal Mafia names, trying to make their names sound Italian because their own names are dull and boring. Everyone loves to bash the mob, but yet they can't seem to get off their nut sacks.

You are correct Furio. The Mafia as a word alone, and within the mindsets of the general public is much more "sexy" and "intoxicating" than common drug dealers or cafone gangbangers. Few care to read about the crimes of these basic criminals. But most readers are still fascinated with thoughts of this secret society of Italian/Sicilian men who are shrouded in secrecy and rituals. The "honor" "money" "power" etc., is intoxicating to them...And once upon a time much of that was very true.

But in recent years (in recent decades in fact) the world changed and the mob changed right along with it. Today's mob has nowhere near the footprint or power it once did. For those who choose to believe otherwise I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell them for $24

You're kidding, right? All criminals go in for money and power. Not honor, not loyalty, not illegal gambling and union control lol. Where the money and the power lies, the criminals will gravitate towards.

You're saying cartels aren't as fascinating as the mob? The cartels in Mexico literally hold the country. They're more intertwined with politicians than the mob EVER was in the US. They openly kill and appoint their own people in positions of power. The situation is very similar in Italy, but not in the US.

Rappers who steal mafia names? I don't know if you listen to rap, but every other rapper makes a reference to Pablo Escobar or El Chapo at one point of their career.

And not sure if you've ever heard of Narco corridors - a literal genre of music whose only purpose is to sing about different cartel members/leaders and the things that they do.

Another thing I'll bring up, I remember reading in that Russian mob book called Red Mafiya that the Russian mobsters who settled in Brighton Beach were in total awe and starstruck by the Italian-American wiseguys. This was of course in the mid 1980s to early 1990s when La Cosa Nostra still had quite a few colorful characters, and complete psychopaths who didn't take any shit.

True DD

It still stands, Gomorrah and The Sopranos are more popular than Narcos, and if you want I can name the rappers who steal Mafia names and you can name rappers who steal cartel names and see who comes up with more, if you really want to take it there though I think it would be a waste of time and you already know who will win. Anyway, that's Mexico, extremely corrupt and fragile country. Let them come and pull their shenanigans in America, killing law enforcement officials and rolling severed heads everywhere, and see how long they last. Taking over Mexico isn't that impressive, that's like the fat kid picking a fight with the smallest kid on the playground.

By the way, I'm not saying Furio is wrong at all, but everyone who has any clue whatsoever already knows it. LCN is the laughingstock of the underworld.

LCN a laughing stock? Not quite DD. Ya kidding right? They are no where near what they were, but go laugh in a wiseguys face and see how that works out for you.

That's not what I meant, I mean because of all the things that Furio pointed out they're not going to be taken serious anymore, unless they step it up. Of course I wouldn't laugh in their face, lol, I personally respect everyone.

. True.

Well of course there are more rappers who use mafia names - the mafia had been around a whole lot longer than the cartels, but to say that cartels are boring and not as fascinating as the mafia is simply not true.

You speak on Mexico being an extremely fragile and corrupt country as if Italy isn't exactly like that? What the cartels and the OC have done in their origin countries, neither could replicate in the US.

Cartels are fascinating just like the mafia is and any OC group for that matter and Pablo Escobar is just as famous as John Gotti or Al Capone.

Bruh.... first off rappers dont care about like, Italy, or Mexico, or Colombia. I mean this respectfully. They care about image of the powerful GANGSTER, the outlaw. Its modern day cowboy shit. Like.....These guys couldnt name a state in these countries... well... some of em anyway...

Nas named himself Escobar, he wasnt trying to be Colombian. His buddy AZ was Sosa, he wasnt trying to be Bolivian. Sure, you had Capone, but his buddy, Nore is named after Noriega, a Panamanian dictator. You had Tragedy Khadafi, after you k ow, Khadafi. Biggie picked a fictional WHITE GUY, Frank White, because he was KING OF NEW YORK, like,.... he loved THAT image. The Buffalo guys are Griselda, I hope we dont think they want to be a Colombian woman. Rick Ross is Albert Anastasia one minute, and Big Meech and Larry Hoover the next. That little folly apparently cost him 3 million in extortion, lol



Besides, it goes both ways too. I've seen videos of Albanian and Mexican, hell even South American trap, Kids in Italy Woo walking, like.... I dunno. I've never in my LIFE...... seen 2 black guys, walk up to each other and say, " What up my guinea, what up wop?" This is not a thing that exist in the universe. They dont try to TALK Italian, they dont affect an Italian accent. But you can find 2 white, Spanish, hell even ASIAN young guys on the weekend, shamelessly addressing each other, " What up n*****. This is an actual real thing.



When is the last time you heard a rapper talk about union rackets or sportsbooks? Also, loansharking, the bets, unions, dont make as much as the drugs, it's just better money. Less risky.


And Gommorah more popular than Narcos? This a recent development? Since it hit HBO maybe?

What I wanted to say is that the american mob in the criminal landscape are no more dangerous as was in the 1980s because are confinated in NY and in few east coast cities.
Italy wasn't like the Mexico because even in the years of most power of the mafia/camorra/ndrangheta there was people that fought and died for the justice and the fact that only in 1986 there was a maxi trial doesn't means that before there wasn't investigation against the mafias.

The Mexico is another thing:a mexican said "The problem of Mexico is that confine with the biggest junkie of the world".

The Partido Revolucionario Institucional ruled on Mexico like a de facto dictorship until 2000,the biggest bussiness men have ties with the cartels,so the police and the army,they have infiltrated and corrupted the Mexican administrative machine so much that anyone who tries to do something is isolated or killed, The Mexican State has declared war on the cartels and is also losing, even at the time of Totò Riina part of the state rebelled against corrupt politicians.
Italy is the purgatory while Mexico is the hell.

Furio FYI I was not trying to insult you or Italy by comparing it to Mexico - I just wanted to put an emphasis on my point that both countries are very corrupt. And I'm from Croatia which is corrupt as fuck as well!

Yes CleanBandit I know it,but some passed to the weight of the American mafia in crime world to who rappers steal the names from cartels or the mafia.
Narcos and Gomorrah etc

The thing with Mexico and other Central and South American countries, is those cartels have a lock on the cocaine supply because they live right at the source. To me the Albanians, Italians, etc are more impressive because they have to get the stuff across thousands and thousands of miles of ocean. I don't know why they don't try to figure out a way to grow the stuff in Europe but I guess they don't have the tropical climate and conditions to grow it. LCN to me is hardly even worth talking about anymore, unless it's about history, because I mean, what's left? When talking about modern day organized crime, I've moved on to other groups, and have a good laugh at every LCN indictment because they're a joke, like the Three Stooges or Charlie Chaplin, shit like that. They're bumbling idiots these days, but still entertaining.

My apologies then, you're right rappers do steal the names of any notorious criminals because it's all about the image.

Yes is all about the image,the rappers based all on the bling ring,mobey,gold gun,naked women etc for sure there are rappers that made good songs but the others don't.

Not because they doesn want but because they can't do it.
Because you need 375 kilos of leaves to obtain 2.5 kg of coca paste which in turn must be refined.
Given that the countries of Mediterranean Europe are small (compared to Mexico or Colombia) and easily controlled by the police, it is impossible to start a production in Europe.
For the heroi is the same thing,you need very large fields for coltivate the opium and made a profitable quantity of heroin.
In Morocco there are huge plantations for made the hashish.
In Europe there only labs for synthetize the ecstasy,mdma or meth but those arent used as is used the H or the coke and in italy the Camorra made grown forests of marijuana only the small clans that can compete in the drug market against the biggest clans.

Thanks Furio. Your broken English sounds cool by the way, I actually feel like I'm talking to Furio from The Sopranos, and I mean that with respect. No offense.

I got what you meant... no apologies neccessary. I kinda agree, it's why I find the modern day transatlantic clans so interesting.


I also kinda agree on the Mexicans. The border makes it much easier for them.

You're gonna get whacked...

Mexico is a beautiful country with a beautiful county and great food, but the government there is weaker than a wimpy kid trying to work out with big boys. The United States, with all their pussy FBI agents and so on, are still a force to be reckoned with. The cartels will never ever have a touch of control similar to what the lcn had/has over the general American public ever. Period.

A Napule t'avvissero già fatt nu cappot'è legn,DillyDolly.

I lost interest in rap music after about 2005, it gets worse and worse every year.

I always took you for a 2pac fan

Anyway despite my broken english to produce cocaine or heroin you must have large fields and in Europe large fields attire the LE and it's cheaper to import from abroad,in this article is explained why.

https://www.livescience.com/59452-why-opium-is-grown-outside-us.html

Though opium yields vary based on growing conditions, 2.5 acres (1 hectare) of poppies typically produce between 17.6 and 33 lbs. (8 to 15 kilograms) of raw opium, according to the book "Opium: A History" (St. Martin's Griffin, 1999). Estimated yields of heroin from raw opium are between 6 percent and 10 percent. Thus, the acre of poppies found in North Carolina would yield a little more than 13 lbs. (6 kg) of raw opium and 1.3 lbs. (0.6 kg) of heroin in a full growing season in the best of circumstances.

That's not nothing; CBS News reported in 2014 that heroin was going for $60,000 per kg (2.2 lbs.) in New York City, though actual prices vary based on purity and supply. 

This is true, it’s not even hip hop anymore , it’s auto tune bullshit...

I love 2Pac, but believe it or not I like the lesser known Tupac songs better, not so much the huge overplayed radio jams. Songs I like most people probably never heard.

Ambitions as a ridah,krazy, hold your head, tradin war stories,hearts of men ,life goes on. There’s so many ...the most influential rapper of all time...dudes been dead 25 years and his name still rings bells....

I just realized California Love was swiped from an old Joe Cocker song.

For some dumb reason I thought they actually came up with that keyboard riff themselves. Like that would ever happen in rap.

Most rap songs are complete rip-offs of other songs, for years you will think they were being original until you hear the original version come on the radio, and many times you find out the shit actually came out before you were even born. I can't tell you how many times this has happened, it's a big WTF moment.

Don't get me wrong, a rip-off can sound really good and you might even like it more than the original if it's done right, problem is that's becoming more and more rare these days.

Pac ain't the GOAT for nothing. What he accomplished in such a short amount of time was simply extraordinary. I have so many favorites but his Me Against The World album was what really convinced me of his genius. Songs like Temptations, Death Around The Corner or Heavy In The Game will forever live on as timeless wonders in my book.

I know a lot of people who would agree with you. It can be a huge letdown if you're not aware of how many of those songs are made lol

Wow, I thought Dr. Dre invented that beat.

https://gangsterreport.com/court-te...e-committee-for-unauthorized-name-usage/

The rapper Rick Ross was forced to pay 3 milions to Gangster Disciples because said that he was in the gang in his song.

Comparing the current power of any criminal organization in the USA to a criminal organization in Mexico is apples and oranges really. Mexico's a structural mess and the law enforcement and military over there are an underpaid joke. Even a comparison with Italy is quite off. Sure there's corruption in Italy, and plenty of it as well, but Mexico's a whole different ballgame. The country basically allowed to sit back and watch how cartels took over entire swaths of the country. Such thing is basically impossible in the USA and it will never happen in Italy either.

That because the cartels have the money to bribe every level of society, from the cops from army officers to the most powerful politicians and anyone who wants to oppose them doesn't have the power to do it.

They have the money to do this in Mexico, because a lot of elements of the society are completely underpaid and everything from law enforcement to the army is in fact completely powerless. In the USA such thing would never happen, regardless of how much money the local criminal element has.

Comparing American gangsters to gangsters in Mexico is greatly unfair. It would actually be more fair to compare America to Italy. Italy is considered a 1st world nation, Mexico is more like a 3rd world shithole. Beautiful country, culture, delicious food, but a shithole nonetheless.

Too much money to do,the Mexico is the dirty face of USA.Too long border,the narco-capitalism doesn't stop in front of nothing.

the only comparison is with italy of the 1980s and early 1990s

Even then, as bad as Italy got in those days, and it got pretty damn bad, the sheer scale of the mayhem organized crime in Mexico is responsible for is unprecedented. Things happen over there, even in public, that are straight out of an apocalyptic horror movie that would get banned from theaters.

yes, but it was done in europe in a 1rst word country, the 'corleonesi' even wanted to destroy the pisa tower, to say and they attaccked monuments in rome, milan and florence

Yes but lasted from 1992 to 1993 while the Mexico situation started in the 1980s when Felix Gallardo created the first cartel federation,after Capaci bomb the State war against Riina almost disbanded Cosa Nostra. There can't be a comparison Italy and Mexico are like apples and oranges.

Back in the days LCN offered services to the people starting with booze as well as drugs, gambling, prostitutes, smokes etc. as long there is the demand for those things there will be a black market.

I think one thing to point out is today's LCN lacks charming and charismatic figures. Seems like they're all a bunch of thuggish knuckle draggers now. Don't get me wrong the Mafia needs those types too at times, but they also need those smooth, polished characters who can charm and finesse their way into beneficial partnerships. People used to go to the mob, now they go to their victims and only know how to strong-arm and force their way in on people. In Italy people from almost all levels of society seek out mob bosses for favors, it used to be that way here.

I think the very opposite is true.
The alleged irrelevance of contemporary American LCN has been soapboxed for decades now. And clearly exaggerated.

Although it’s undeniable that we won’t ever see a resurgence to pre-RICO levels of power, most of what we see when we cut through the above mentioned “mainstream mindset” confirms the surprising relevance and influence of present-day LCN.

Considering the amount of arrests, setbacks, takedowns, informants, etc. the fact that the American LCN is agreed to be among the main criminal subcultures in the American Northeast is very telling.

Its eclectic and adaptive nature has proven successful despite the constant attacks coming from the government.

Few reporters and researchers dare to challenge the “status quo” rethoric that paints the Mob as a decadent freak show. But those who do are often proven right.

Anna Sergi comes to mind as one of them. People laughed at the idea that Buffalo still had any trace of an even semi-structured activity, yet we now know that LCN activity in that area is not as “dead” as expected. According to many, the ports of NJ and NY should have been completely Mob-free since the late 90s. We know that’s not the case.

Smaller crime families were predicted to be defunct by now. Yet the Colombos, Philly and even the DeCavs are still around. Licking their wounds and limping, sure, but not gone.

Many scolded those who suggested that zips would still be interested in setting up shop here, but Sicilians get busted quite regularly, as recently as 2019. And Ndrangheta connections pop up often as well.

We were told that no young blood was being made. But all indictments show a fairly decent amount of younger people involved. Ceremonies have been held in almost all families in the last decade. And when the books are closed is because the family chooses to.

As is usual in academia/media/government, when the so-called “experts” are proven wrong they proceed to appropriate the new truth without ever admitting they were wrong in the first place. Or simply refuse to change their minds and double down on their flawed theories.

We know crime families’ hierarchies have opted for a more subtle governance. Guys with “old school” charisma seat in every panel.
We know that the connections between the US and Italy have been strengthen in the last decade. Despite obvious set backs.

Considering the technology, LEO manpower, and the many other challenges faced by current era wiseguys, their dynamism and variety of activities prove (once again) how their “death” has been largely exaggerated.

The Mob’s main adversary is its own mighty past. People keep comparing this generation of mobsters to their forefathers but it’s an unfair comparison given how much society has changed since then.

All of the other, newer, criminal organizations don’t face this issue.

And whatever you do, DON'T drink the water.

Mexico still is a great country for tourists, European people are still going there for the vacation.

Yes but if you go out the turistic zones you risk to be robbed or killed that dont happen in Italy.

Unfortunately tourists have been caught in crossfires between rival gangs. It's rare, but it happens. Said gangs are often very low-level. The cartels don't go around targeting tourists and local thugs that would target tourists risk getting kidnapped and having their face sliced off on camera. A lot of tourist establishments operate on cartel money. Less tourism, means less turnover, means less opportunity to launder money. They sure as hell don't want to scare off tourism.

In spite of its flaws, I agree that Mexico is a wonderful country with a very unique culture and history, fantastic food and in general extremely welcoming and friendly people.

lasted a decade, from the early 80's to the early 90's, in this period there were the wars between nco and nf in campania, the corleonesi in sicily and de stefano-tegano vs imerti-condello in calabria with thousands of dead and in plus many politicians, policemen, judges, journalists killed and terrorist-style attacks

M2W, I'd say you're right. I'd also say that during those times the Italian situation was more organized than Mexico, in that they targeted specific individuals who in some way or another ended up on their shit list. It wasn't just wanton violence on any and everyone just to scare the shit out of everybody.

Mexico is all fun and games until you get off the beaten path.

Then you become a picture on a missing person flyer.

Mexico is the result of what happens when drugs are illegal and the gangsters end up with more money than the government and more firepower than the military. I actually think the Mafia in Italy has the same or almost as much power and influence. I mean, just look at all the people in Italy from nearly all levels of government and business over there who have been tried or convicted of Mafia collusion. The difference is that the cartels use brute force and savagery, and money of course, while the Mafia uses silent infiltration and subversion. In other words they worm their way into those positions and partnerships and no one knows until the indictments come down and arrests are made. I'd say that Mexico is a bit worse though.

Yes but only in the 1992/1993 the mafia dare to challenge the Italian State andcwas almost disbanded,unlucky after this,politicians, policemen, judges, journalists was still killed but are an exception not the rule.
In Mexico still today journalist was killed.

I think it's rather immature and small-minded to judge the power of the Mafia in Italy by whether or not they're still killing judges, politicians, bankers, police, journalists, etc. Just because they're not leaving corpses everywhere doesn't mean that they don't have huge power and influence within the political and business spheres of the upperworld, as is evident by numerous investigations, arrests, and dissolution of several local governments due to Mafia infiltration. A crime syndicate doesn't have to leave decapitated bodies on the streets and bodies hung under highways to be powerful or a force to be reckoned with, the cartels are just loud about it.

Killing politicians and policemen in the long term is career suicide. Mexico for instance is going through a certain phase right now and while cartels will always remain - which is always the case when a noteworthy criminal phenomenon takes root - at one point a huge clamp down will happen and it will stabilize.

Cartels in Colombia used to kill judges, but eventually law enforcement came down on them hard. Nowadays Colombian cartels are still highly active, but it has become more of an underground affair.

in the 80s it was still too powerful that's the difference

Not sure of other places, but according to law enforcement in Italy when the Mafia isn't killing people in the upperworld it means that the underworld and upperworld has a good relationship.

After the capture of Riina,was used the submarine tactic and the Mafia under Provenzano turned back in the shadows and the murder is the last choice.

it depends, the impossibility to kill a judge, to say, could be a sign of weakness

It's amazing if you see how many powerful politicians in Colombia are tied to the cocaine business. Also the civil war is pretty much over but not the FARC's continued control over several hundred thousand coca growers in southern Colombia.

The roots of the mafia violence are the so-called Years of Lead (Italian: Anni di piombo) a term used for a period of social and political turmoil in Italy that lasted from the late 1960s until the late 1980s, marked by a wave of both far-left and far-right incidents of political terrorism.

Yes, the FARC these days is split into different "Fronts" which are described as the "ex-FARC mafia". They couldn't care less about ideals and they operate as organized crime outfits. The 1st, 6th, 7th, 10th, 16th and 29th Fronts for instance are highly involved in international drug trafficking among other things.

They don't lack the ability to kill judges, they just don't do it. And there's no reason to, business is good.

Killing judges is a sign of weakness, look at all the guys who killed judges and politicians and others, and where are they? Exactly. It results in loss of income due to loss of personnel to life sentences and huge crackdowns.

I would say that Riina and Company waging war on the Italian State in such a spectacular fashion showed the world that they could pull it off, and showed off their sophistication and military capabilities, and I think at least partially they were able to get some of the things they wanted from the State, at the cost of numerous lives and freedoms. However beyond that, not so much. I think many would agree that Bernardo Provenzano's strategy after Salvatore Riina's 1993 capture has been much more advantageous to the Mafia than Riina's strategy.

Riina was least one who was responsible for all that violence. He just did dirty work that was ordered by corrupt parts of state/secret services.

IMO Riina was a motherless, heartless, scumbag who hurt not only the Italian nation at large, but massacred many of his own people, other so-called "friends" in many other towns and villages as the Corleonesi sort to consolidate their personal power at the expenses of every other crew and borgata across Sicily.

These vicious tactics of course backpacked on him and his people and reverberated throughout all Cosa Nostra as the Italian State eventually became even more galvanized in destroying all of them. Stupid. Extremely stupid! I was "King for a Day," So what?

The mafia on the island is still feeling the negative reverberations of his actions decades later.

I totally get it, part of the State was heavily involved as well. The Mafia will always feel the impact of those days, however business must continue and the show must go on.

Riina attacked the Italian State because wanted the the abolition of the 41 bis. Must understood that until the maxi trial the mobsters had a freedom that would never have after,and some politicians was saying that "the mafia didnt exist".
With the 41 bis the mobsters stay in a small cell,23 h on 24,no hour in the yard,no interaction with other inmates and many mobsters get crazy and flipped.
Riina wanted the abolition of 41 bis, the Corleonesis were called "the peasants with bloodstained boots", they were a herd of animals.

I think when 41 bis first came into play it was really strict, especially during the years when they were killing State officials. But these days you hear about mob bosses running their clans from 41 bis.

More accurately, the rappers emulate the mobsters, not Italians in general. I don't see rappers trying to be Italian. In fact rappers are still the face of urban black style and culture, and much of mainstream style and culture. The only part of Italian culture rappers are interested in is the mobsters, and only the most famous bosses. Lucky, Carlo, Gotti, etc. You don't see any rappers calling themselves Lil Pasquale Conti or Young Jimmy Nap. Just the legendary mob names that crossed over to mainstream culture, like Gotti.

https://hip-hop-music.fandom.com/wiki/Mafioso_rap

Furio you wouldn't be challenging me to another rap battle, would you?

Italians do have some clean ass surnames, I mean, imagine if the Gambino Family was known as the Johnson crime family, wouldn't be the same lol.

Deleted. No personal insults on this or any other board on this site. Cut that shit out!!

It's quite obvious that Anglophonic names are plain Jane, even The Dutchman changed his name from Arthur Flegenheimer to Dutch Schultz because it sounded better and more imposing. In the underworld things like that are a big deal.

No, I would never dare.

I'm working on ignoring things and blowing stuff off, getting better at it, it’s the ones that catch me off guard that still get me lol. Anyway, have a prosperous year everyone, cheers.