Bobby Manna

I rarely if ever think any career criminal should be shown leniency in their sentences. However, I do make the exception for Bobby Manna. Not for any reason other than he was sentenced in my opinion as if John and Gene Gotti were killed. As we know neither were killed and his sentence is draconian for the conspiracy. I realize other crimes were included in his Trial. I also realize this is a dangerous person who probably got away with actual crimes he was not charged or convicted of but that should not be a consideration. I think it definitely was and continues to be a vindictive incarceration at this point. Just my opinion.

Agreed. By these standards then NOBODY should ever gain a compassionate release.

The guy's as old as Methuselah, has done decades upon decades behind bars, is currently extremely ill and infirm, poses a "danger" to absolutely no-one, the Grim Reaper is closely hovering around his deathbed...and at the end of the day (as you so succinctly stated majicrat) the "alleged" murder conspiracy never even materialized or ever went nowhere. Neither Gotti had a single hair touched on their coiffed heads. So WTF?

And it was a draconian, shot up "to the moon" unfair sentence to begin with. But thats the feds and G sending a statement. Thats all that is!

If his last name was Horowitz, Murray, or Johnson, we wouldn't be having this chat. But "mala fortuna" (in this case at least), his surname Manna ends in a vowel.

Funny that you bring up Italian immigrants coming to this country with last names ending in a vowel.
When my Grandfather came to this country he was told to registrar his surname as ending in a consonant instead of a vowel.
Thus our last name ends in an N and not an O as our family surname name was for generations.

That was a common thing, both as an "accident" by the Irish immigration officers at Ellis Island that didn't understand the spelling of Italian names and fucked em up, and deliberately by some Italians themselves who wanted to blend more easily into American society.

Family lore has always been that grandfather dropped the O and that’s how we became the “Roman” family. Not sure that Roman is less Italian than Romano, but solved vowel problem.

That was not untypical back then. But Roman can also represent Spanish and several other nationalities as well. Romano? Lol, strictly Italiano

That's why the Calabrian Francesco Castiglia took the Irish sounding name Frank Costello.

Sometimes i think criminals of mr Manna' s stature, will never get released they make an example of them, crime doesn't pay. Another thing too, some asshole government official or judge wants to make his name more prominent. He'll purposefully negate the persons release and give some bullshit speech to justify it. As we all know the biggest crew is the government with police as their muscle you can't beat that shit.

https://youtu.be/o7v4COH6KFI

Here's an interesting video involving him

JB, you hit Bingo! 1000% correct (on all counts)

As long as you're discussing Italian immigrant name changes, I was told that G in Italian didn't convert to English.
Thus the first letter of our Surname was changed to J. Anything factual about this or just another old wive's tale?

G is usually pronounced like a J in Italian. Especially when it's the first letter in a name. Hence, a surname like Guiliano would be like a Juliano.
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To provide you two more perfect examples of other such letters of the alphabet with the same problem is U, and sometimes the letter I. Thats why Francesco Uale, became Frankie Yale. And why Joseph Iacovelli, became Joseph Yacovelli.

The "americani" couldn't pronounce or even understand the spelling of such names.

Your knowledge of these historical idioms is much admired. Your first example is really close, simply change the O for an N ;-)

Thank you for that compliment FOH. I appreciate it.

I agree; He should have been out 15-20 years ago…

But you do realize; He ordered a “hit” or conspired to kill Donald Trump’s sister; MaryAnne Barry Trump; Prosecutor Micheal Chertoff and also judge; Samuel Alito….

You don’t get away with ordering and conspiring to kill people in the Justice Department…

I was going to say he must of stepped on some heavy toes, makes sense

They will never let Manna out early although they should. He was too much of a stand up guy and too high ranking. Manna was everything a gangster should be and the government hates that. Same goes for John Gotti and the Chin. High ranking guys that take their sentences like men and keep their mouths shut.

I do not believe that for one single second. First of all Manna wasn't as stupid guy. He knew he could never even think such a stupid plot, yet alone make it actually happen. And #2 (MOST importantly), he was an adherent to Cosa Nostra, and Chin was his boss. Do you REALLY think that would have even have "thought such stupid things," or had it approved by Chin, AND/OR the Commission??

Of course not! It was bullshit add-on "unsubstantiated" "allegations" by the feds and piled on to help bury him. Period!

Manna DeSciscio and Casella were convicted on conspiracy to kill Gottis, murder of Schiff and also a gambling charge, and some other mundane things. But the fact is that all of it is suspect based on FBI surveillance logs and other evidence. And had they not gotten that gambling charge which was based on the testimony of one cop, they would've gotten parole and been out of prison already.

Desciscio also has a habeas petition pending in which he is seeking immediate bail or in the alternative compassionate release/reduction in sentence. The govt filed its opposition on Monday in which they state that the chance of recidivism is zero and that he is not a danger to society but because of his "egregious" crimes, there is a "real need" to keep him behind bars. Similar to what the govt wrote in opposition to Manna.

The judge in Manna's denial is the same judge who will decide on DeSciscio. However, the judge in Manna's motion did not really delve into the comparisons his lawyers cited who received a compassionate release. One guy is 86 years old and served 32 years of an 80-year sentence and he was the head of a violent gang in KC. The other guy was the head of a violent drug trafficking ring in Harlem in the 70s who got a life sentence. Both of them were released. Neither of them has as serious medical issues as Manna. And there are many, many more (including a 47-year old terrorist who was nothing more than "obese" when he was released last summer) who have been released as well.

The judge in Manna's denial said that granting compassionate release is at the "judge's discretion" and cited case law to support that. It basically means that it is personal feelings that drive a decision instead of legal precedent.

Manna is 92. DeSciscio is 79. Both of them should be granted release. There is no reason they should be behind bars.

Here is the end of the govt's opposition brief on DeSciscio

There is NO evidence to support that. ZERO. It doesn't exist.

In addition, when Manna was originally arrested in 88, the original judge that heard his case for bail GRANTED him bail until Chertoff appealed to Trump and she kept him in prison. See below. So how can one judge who saw the same transcripts the government offered opposing bail believe Manna wasn't dangerous enough to keep behind bars and another judge see it a completely different way?

It's just an interesting point to consider. This is from a 1988 NY Times article.

Absolutely right...The Genovese family voted down the alleged plot to kill Rudy, because they knew it would bring the world down on them, but then all of a sudden they wanna kill judges ?? BS, and the government knows it....It shows they're just as dirty as the gangsters are !!

Agreed DiLo. How the feds get away with this type of blatant shit shows one of two things, how the G plays dirty ALL the time. And/or how many sitting judges are either "in cahoots" with the G and are VERY Pro-government to the point of creating a "kangaroo court," or in the alternative, how "stupid" and uneducated certain justices are in the true "reality" or life and basic common sense. In other words, they're "book wise" but have "no common sense"

Conspiracy to commit murder is an actual crime. Just because the murder's never actually carried out doesn't make it okay. If Manna had his way, the murders would have happened.

From trial coverage:


An electronic ''bug'' placed in the former Casella's restaurant in Hoboken, which the Government said was a meeting place for Mr. Manna and his group, turned up a conversation two days after the killing that included this exchange that the Government said was between Frank Daniello, 67 years old, a former Hoboken police officer, and Martin (Motts) Casella, 71, the restaurant owner and Mr. Manna's top lieutenant. Both are co-defendants with the 60-year-old Mr. Manna.

Daniello: Irwin, Irwin Schiff. (unintelligible second voice). The place was jammed; all the people ran out. He was in there with a broad.

Casella: It's a small place though.

Daniello: Bobby picked this kid out.

Casella: It's a small place.

Daniello: It takes guts though to do it like that. This kid is a--.

Casella: Stone killer.

Daniello: He was sitting there with a blond bitch, and they hit him.

In another conversation made three days before the killing, two unidentified men are heard talking in Mr. Casella's presence.

First male: You wanna hit him?

Second male: Irwin Schiff but we'll settle for that. We'll do him good at night. Bobby Manna didn't like CC.

Michael Chertoff, an Assistant United States Attorney, said ''CC'' was a mob code name for Mr. Schiff, based on Construction Coordinators, a New York business in which he held an interest.



….

The plot against John Gotti, said by Federal authorities to head the Gambino family, first came up last Sept. 21 in a conversation among Mr. Manna, Mr. Casella and Mr. Daniello. Mr. Chertoff said the plan was to attack Mr. Gotti near a club he frequented on Woodhaven Boulevard and 101st Avenue in Ozone Park, Queens.

''Wear a disguise,'' Mr. Manna said. ''It's an open place.''

An unidentified man asked: ''Do you know where you'se are going to do this guy?''

''Yeah, on that corner,'' Mr. Casella responded.

''You know, this should be good and fast if it's John Gotti up on the Boulevard and, ah, hundred and one,'' the man said.

The F.B.I. subsequently notified Mr. Gotti of the reported plot, and, according to an Oct. 9 transcript, the Genovese associates learned of the warning.

''Hey, John Gotti knows,'' Mr. Casella said on Oct. 9.

An unidentified man responded, ''John Gotti knows we. . . .''

''That we ordered it?'' another man said.

But the plotting continued, the authorities said. On Jan. 10, Mr. Manna was overheard saying, ''a big hit, John Gotti,'' and then apparently discussing with Mr. DeSciscio and others the selection of a gunman.

Two days later, in a conversation between Mr. Manna and James Napoli, Mr. Manna said: ''Gene Gotti's dead.''

''When are you gonna hit him?'' Mr. Napoli asked.

''Gene Gotti's dead,'' Mr. Manna repeated.

''We're gonna be paying for this, you know, for the rest of our lives,'' Mr. Napoli said.

….


According to cafaro testimony:


Genovese boss Anthony 'Fat Tony' Salerno told him in 1980 that Manna was the new consigliere, Cafaro said. He also told the jury that Vincent 'the Chin' Gigante and Manna ran the family for several months after Salerno suffered a stroke in January 1981. Law enforcement authorities believe Gigante became boss of the Genovese family following Salerno's imprisonment.


Manna approved the killing of Nicholas 'Nat' Masselli, who was shot in the Bronx in August 1982, Cafaro said. Masselli, son of William 'the Butcher' Masselli, had been talking to a special prosecutor investigating former Labor Secretary Raymond Donovan.

…



At his age and given his current health condition, and given the treatment of other similar defendants, wouldn’t be unreasonable to release him. But seems there was ample evidence to convict him and the others.

This is the government's evidence and information printed in a newspaper. There is other evidence to contradict this from FOIA requests, FBI surveillance logs, tape transcripts and interpretations of transcripts, etc. I'll be writing on it shortly.

The government has always been gangsters. You see what happened to America since all any gangsters or any type of powerful OC were wiped out The government has taken everything.

There is nobody or no organization to keep them in check … no body to keep them in check with blackmail or violence . The government has free rain only them selfs to take all they want and the most powerful is cleaning up.

What do you think our president and Mexico’s are getting paid to allow the southern border open to endless amounts of drugs.

I could go on and on … all the way down to who puts new doormats at government buildings…. And that gig is worth more then the mob is bringing in these days …


Americans are fucked

In my opinion Manna should go home. Although, he's not a good guy I feel like he did his time for the crimes he was convicted for. As far as how the government accomplished the conviction, well if you sleep with dogs you're going to get fleas. Some only believe in the constitution when it fits their narrative, As far as planning on killing the Judge and others, well without some kind of physical evidence like an audio recording planning the murders I will never believe that to be true. If it is then Manna isn't as smart I think he is/was.