Becoming a rat, is it all that bad?

Nobody remembers or gives a shit about Arthur Nigro and how he took a life sentence without turning rat. But everyone remembers Sammy the Bull.

Rats get all the attention, book deals, TV interviews and plenty of money. People like Nigro just get a prison cell and are forgotten.

Under those circumstances why bother staying mum?

Because especially in the case of Basciano you have sons that will be shelved if their dad would flip or because there mobsters that still believe in cosa nostra till I die or because have something to loose turning rat.
If you read the story of the rats in the last 5 years like Pennisi,Lovaglio etc was people that have nothing to gain remaining loyal so they preferred to flip.

Basciano would've never flipped anyway. It's hard for a lot of rats to accept this, but many people don't have the rat gene. Some of us are good, decent human beings who would never betray our friends.

Like I always said it doesn’t matter if you’re a rat or not if you are apart if that life and you steal, murder, and prey on people who are a piece of garbage. My only issue is that I feel cooperators still should serve more jail time even with a reduction if they have committed very serious crimes. For example Gravano should have served the amount of the time he did for the ecstasy thing the first time he was locked up and cooperated

Yes Ralphie,"betrayl friends" most rat doesnt had friends only fellow so for them was easy but must see case by case; more mobsters born between the 1950s and 1970s should be made if the recruitment pool wasn't amost dry.
Plus the fact that the rats doesnt need to hide like before and that they are thrested like stars,is an incentive to flip.
The kast attempts to try to whack a rat was when Pete Gotti send to guys to kill Gravano in the last 1990s and the 2016 attempts to whack Sean Richard by lucchese capo John Datello.

If you sign up for something, and take a solemn blood vow to boot, I think you should stand up and adhere to that vow. And in the event you choose to leave that life or vocation (for whatever reason), at least do not burn Rome down to the ground as you exit.

Have a spine. Act like a man. Do the right thing so you can walk away being able to hold your head high. Especially if you have blood relatives and friends who will remain in that life. Your actions will reflect on them for good or bad.

Now if you are a selfish prick who is only concerned with himself. Or you're jealous of the accomplishments of others and wanna stick it to them. Well then that's another conversation completely.

Likewise, if you're a C--t Lapper and a weasel who has no 'face' and doesn't really care what others think of him, well thats another explanation right there!

It takes a certain kind of fellow to be able to climb into that witness chair and point fingers at others for their wrongdoings, while you yourself had previously stood shoulder to shoulder with those very same people doing the same exact things.

Or to allow yourself to be debriefed privately by FBI agents as you name former friends and relatives, and sink them for their crimes so you can escape your own penalties.

A very 'special' kind of fellow indeed!

And as far as "getting all the attention, book deals, TV interviews, etc.,"...... WTF?? Is THAT what this is all about? Fucking others in the ass so you can climb on top of their corpses and profit from your being a rat and stool pigeon? WOW!

What a fucking sick mentality! Thats why this country (and entire society in general) is going down the tubes!

This "ME, ME, Its all about ME" mentality and current thought process shows what spineless punks many of the younger generation are.

What ever happened to 'selflessness', 'heroism' 'taking one for the team' and all that kind of stuff?

What happened? It's gone out of fashion??

NYMafia summed it up perfectly...one case in point Sonny Black Napolitano is a special case for me, for he knew his ticket was going to get punched. He still got in the car went to this so called meeting and took it like a man. He didn't run or flip but held the oath and accepted his fate.

For better or worse nobody would have the amount of of information we have in the mafia if it weren’t for informants I mean that’s just a fact. That said I don’t have respect got any mobster “rats” or not.

I don't know, I don't really think anybody should just turn themselves in to be killed like that. I mean it would have been better if he went and hid out somewhere for a while tried to see what happens. Then try to come back when things blew over. I don't know what kind of time he was facing, but surely it would have been better than just f****** giving up and letting them kill you.

Excellent Point!!! Let’s be honest the people who despise rats would do the same thing if it came down to saving their life which I understand. That’s why going into that life is a mistake to begin with for a variety of reasons morally and logically

Would do the same thing? Lol... I suggest you speak for yourself with that, not others.

oops I forgot you took the oath of omertà 😂

I wasn't talking about ratting. I was simply saying don't just give up and let yourself be killed, try to survive. In Sony Black's case I think he would have had a better shot if he ran away. I mean to be honest I really don't know a lot about this stuff I'm looking at it as an outsider.

. The funny thing is that in some cases they have tried to kill a guy who was actually loyal. For example Pete Chiodo comes to mind. They tried to kill him for being a “rat” even though there is a zero evidence he was. Then tried tried to murder his sister and killed his uncle. So you begging to wonder if the whole “loyalty” and “oath” are really myths or not. Salvie Testa is also a popular example

This is my honest and wholehearted opinion, if you are just a low-level scrub associate I can see you flipping. But just from what I've seen following the mob over the years most of these rats didn't gain much from their snitching. I don't think federal prison is so bad that it's worth sacrificing a lifetime gangster legacy, especially from the prison photos I've seen of the stand-up guys doing their time like men. They don't even go to the hardcore state prisons where people get stabbed and raped everyday. I just don't understand it. And some of these guys blood relatives disowned them, nobody likes a snitch. Just not worth it to me.

I don't think this is a one size fits all issue. They're all rats but there are degrees of rat.

Massino...Vitale...Casso....Gravano...Palermo...all upper level guys who flipped on their former subordinates - these are the guys that are supposed to be leaders and masters of that life and then they turn rat on guys some of whom they inducted. I have no sympathy for any of those names, they are all the lowest of the low, the guys who profited the most from the life and who gave nothing back when it was time to save their own skin. Guys who masqueraded for years as diehards who it turns out were nothing more than poseurs.

Then you've got the Pete Chiodos, Joe Valachis and Al D'Arco's of the world who hadn't done anything wrong and were marked for death. Who's going to lie back and take that?? Amuso/Casso practically begged those guys to become rats. I do have sympathy for those guys and can only imagine that I'd have done the same thing in their situations. The blame here lies in the incompetence of the administrations that would create this situation.

Then you've got the Leonettis, the DiLeonardos, the Pennisis, the DelGiornos, the Franzeses and others who are all in the debatable category. Guys that are slippery lowlifes but who were maybe given some sort of justification to flip based on how things went down (the facts of which, again, might be debatable). These are the guys I take at face value but from whom you'll never get the full story. They're all pretty charismatic characters so it's easy to get sucked in by them but if you listen hard enough you'll notice gaps in their stories. Still, they all felt at some time that there was some reason they had to get out of the life and it's reasonable to assume that mistakes were made on both sides of the equation.

Finally you've got total worthless garbage like Natale, Hill, guys like that. The difference between them and the Massinos of the world is that you'd be foolish to have expected much from any of these clowns in the first place, they were all garbage and the fact that they were brought into the orbit of the LCN is the fault of whoever introduced them, vouched for them and worked with them without realizing the obvious: that these guys were total losers.

Cafaro's son never got shelved. Scarpa's son never got shelved. D'Arco's son never go shelved. The list is long.

100% agreed. People like Massino and Casso are the worst of the worst afaic. These are men who got their own people killed for minor infractions and who ordered hits on people just because they "assumed" they ratted. And then when push comes to shove, they waste no time to become stoolies themselves.

Even when you say "all gangsters are scum" you gotta admit some are worse than others and people like Casso and fat fuck Massino are lower than dog shit imo.

Ever looked a lengthy prison sentence before?, all that bravado shit goes out the window and all you can think about is how the fuck am I going to get out of this situation. I've been in that situation twice and both times I turned down deals to cooperate but that was because I banked on the Police not having enough evidence to convict.

The point is it's all very well taking a certain stance from the comfort of your home when you've never been in that situation, but when shit gets real and things are looking real bad I can promise you that stance will soften a little.

Cafao's son was denied entry into the Genovese Family, Scarpa's son is doing life so it don't matter, I don't know about D'Arco's son

Yes but he wasn't shelved. He remained a Genovese associate. Still interesting the Genoveses wouldn't induct him even after he remained loyal to them.

I been there all my life. Can't tell ya how many times I was approached. But depending on how you were raised, and the core values you hold near and dear to you will play a huge part in whether you stand up or not. Or flip and become a rat.

As I've said, in 99.9% of all rat cases, they could have, and should have, avoided turning.

There is that legit 0.9% who were very justified in flipping. They had solid legit cause and no options left. And I DO NOT consider them true Rats or Stool Pidgeons as those terms are used.

But we're talking 0.9 or one percent here! Understand?

NO MATTER how you or anyone else would like to try and color it.

WHAT!!!!!!!! WHO?? NOTHING JUSTIFIES RATTING. NOTHING!!!!!!

If I'm a well-accomplished Mafioso with a legendary Mafia past behind me, I'm not ratting, PERIOD! I'll take that life sentence and spend the rest of my time playing cards.

---
Not true!

I hate to even say it. Even think it.

But God forbid guys would kill you child, wife, mother, etc. And they were beyond your reach, and/or your abilities to reach them or get at them. And they destroyed your personal blood family??

Then all bets are off. I would then enthusiastically inform on each and every single one of them! And hang them the fuck out to dry! Understand me??

The only punishment better than that would be to slaughter them by my own hands. And drink their fucking blood!

A situation like THAT is the 0.9% I speak of.

THAT IS NOT RATTING! That is getting even and (half) justice! Because true justice would be by my own hand. Period!

Being approached for information because you might know something is a little different to facing a lengthy prison sentence and being offered a way out. It's easy not to roll on someone when you're not facing any prison sentence.

I worded my previous answer to you the way I did on purpose. Read between the lines. ok?

As I said "I been there ALL my life"

In more ways than I care to enumerate here on this forum.

I don't talk out of my ass. When I speak you can lay your bottom dollar on it.

That's like claiming you served in the trenches during WW1 when in fact you were the cook far back from the front lines.

. Very True 😂

And how would you possibly know where and how I might have served in WWi as you say, in what trenches, and in what capacity?

That's quite a leap isn't it my friend? If I say that I am MORE (much more) familiar with, and closer to, these type of situations than most, maybe you should consider the statement for what I said and for what it's possibly worth (as opposed to trying to force a square peg into a round hole just to win the discussion) no?

As I said earlier, I don't speak flippantly. But when I make a statement like that you can take it to the bank.

I'm not gonna have a pissin contest with you over the semantics and particulars of it. There is no reward for me at the end whether you accept what I say or don't accept what I say.

It's 'no skin off my nose one way or the other' as the old saying goes..... it is what it is. and you're free to believe as you like. But I still stand by the statements I make, and the advice that I gave here.

Lets try and met half way on this?

Lets just agree that nobody can know for certain if they will roll on their friends or enemies until they are staring at a lengthy prison sentence. Can we agree on that? if so, we can also agree that you are more familiar and closer to these types of situations than most people, but you've just never been in those situations personally.

Agreed?

Exactly how I play it, although I didn't always stay within my boundaries, but that has changed.



Yep playing tough guy is a fun game until shit hits the fan and cops are knocking at your door then suddenly nobody wants to play anymore.

Cafaro son was never inducted,Scarpa son get 40 y for drug trafficking in the late 1980s but was considerated a rat like his father,d'arco son followed his father in witsec.

Yeah I know about Cafaro's son not being inducted but he still remained a Genovese associate, which is rather curious in it's self. I would have thought the Genoveses would have gone all in with him or cut him loose.

Scarpa Jr never got shelved after his fathers betrayal was discovered but yeah he snitched on those terrorists. He also fucked up Vic Amuso by repeatedly banging his head against a metal bed frame, then cracked him over the skull with a heavy porcelain bowl and left him unconscious. Amuso had called his father a rat then said "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" prompting the attack and the end of Scarpa Jr's membership in the Colombo family.

I didn't know D'Arco's son followed his father into witsec. I was under the impression he didn't follow him. But that would make sense, Amuso and Casso would have killed him to get back at his father.

They already had Joseph Massino. Why would they need Basciano? It would completely undermine what they were doing. Besides, Basciano was caught plotting to murder a prosecutor. There's no way they'd accept him with open arms even if he did want to rat.

LOL at NYMafia acting like they wouldn't rat in a heartbeat if they were faced with 1 hour in prison.

Moe, why don't you go soak your head or something?

What do you think? That everybody in this world is a spineless weasel like you, who would roll over and give up his own mother to avoid the can? Just because you're ball-less doesn't mean everyone in life is!

. Agreed.

They did not need Massino, they had him convicted and still gave him one of the best deals ever. They would LOVE to have Bascaino, it must eat away at them that they could not get him to rat. That is why they made his sentence so severe. They willl take any rat, they even took Casso, until his testimony contradicted with another's. They took Gravano, even eater he told them he killed 20 people. It's an ego thing to the FBI and prosecutors, Bascaino could get out any time he wants by cooperating, but he's a man and not a rat.

Massino instigated that Murder plot and framed Basciano I’m 100% sure on that. It was the only reason they gave Massino the deal
All Basicano kept saying to Massino during that recording was “forget about it”. Massino was pissed at Andres for taking his money and toppling his empire ... but at the same time Vinny did wack Frank Santora and a couple other hits in the 80s and 90s
And everyone would Rat here. Anyone saying different is full of shit. Not ratting is for professional criminals not kids that have seen to many movies. Everyone saying be loyal to they’re friends while what? Shitting on they’re own kids and families. It’s nonsense...this isn’t the movies. It’s not hollywood...

Casso started contradicting the other witnesses once he was violated and his deal torn up for smuggling in weed, coke and heroin into the witsec unit in prison...

He’s a nice guy for sure and a man of principles but he has fucking destroyed his family sticking to his beliefs. His sons are jailbirds and wife was left alone ...

Yep. Everyone here would crack. Some quicker than others. Most would roll when faced with any prison sentence and offered a way out, while others would explore that option when facing more than 5 years. Everyone has a breaking point.

A bit impetuous, don't you think?

Basically nobody knows each other here personally or knows what people do in their personal life. Nobody can claim they "won't" rat if they've never been in that situation, but you can't really claim "everyone" here would rat either. You just don't know.

Being in prison over here looks more comfortable than daily hitting your targets at work and dealing with the incessant whining of incompetent "superiors" and teary-eyed customers tbh.
Sure, if it would be a Brazilian hellhole prison I'd be talking about, my take might be different.

TheKillingJoke you make an excellent point, one that I've made many times. Prison to me really doesn't seem much worse than the shit your average Joe deals with in everyday life. Definitely not worth sacrificing a lifetime gangster legacy and reputation over.

You're dumber than I thought if you really think Andres got all of his money.

So basically Scarpa Jr. beat Amuso up for telling the truth.

Your hero John Gotti sucker punched Romual Piecyk and was about to get his ass kicked before he got his girlfriends to help him. He wasn't so lucky when he mouthed off to that black guy in prison.

You're such a dick! Lol

Remember how Amuso made D'Arco ,DeFede and Chiodo into rats? That's what he did here.

He went a bit too far by telling Scarpa Jr "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" which was an unfair statement considering Scarpa Jr kept his mouth shut and was doing a 40 year sentence.

Amuso turned Scarpa Jr into a rat by provoking him into an attack, that made him a marked man and got him booted out of the Colombo family. Now Scarpa Jr ain't a wiseguy no more and decides terrorists are fair game to get a reduced sentence. That didn't work out for him and like Casso he ends up a rat while still having to do his time.

rats are great..get one for a pet

He never sucker punched Piecyk, even Piecyk said so.

I disagree Neo. We are not in the Mafia, so the compression doesn't hold up, sorry. I would never go to prison for someone, but I never do anything that would get me arrested. The same holds for most of us here, Mafia members commit to the life, and should hold up to their commitment,. Not everyone can be broken, look at John and Gene Gotti, especially John who was dying of cancer and would not give in. Nicky Scarfo, Vinny Bascaino, many others stand up and take their time like men. We're not Mafia members, we are just discussing them.

I'll assume you're disagreeing with my last sentence: "everyone has a breaking point"? If so, I was referring to forum members, not wiseguys. But I suppose I didn't make that very clear.

Anyone who says an American prison is no worse than what the average working man deals with daily cant be serious.My best friend went in at 18 doing 20 years.He caught another ten inside and was released after 30 years.I did 3/12 years on the same charges.When you enter a prison the first thing you are told is make a knife by the other detainees.That is the white detainees.That is because every day is full of racial tension.There are no words or phrase that I could convey to you that could really describe the extreme tension and violence that goes on daily.In Georgia,you will never shower alone.Never.You will not use the restroom in private.If you let that sink in imagine going 10 or 20 years never having privacy.I could go on.But the thing is not every man has it in them to do time.And not every man has snitching or being a rat inside them.Going back to my friend at 18 he faced 20.The lawyer and district attorney told him you are either going to tell on your friends or you are going to do heavy time.At 18 now he told them to fuck off.He didn't rat.It aint in him.He could have taken down several and walked with a couple years.I was offered 40 years my first offer or I could help them and they help me.Or rat.No way I told them and thank God I beat some of the charges against me.So to say everyone on here would rat facing enough time just isn't so.All rats are cowards.Period.I'm not saying that all snitches cant fight or they aren't tough.But they are cowards.There is nothing worse on this earth except a child predator.

I'll say it again, prison is no worse than what the average working man goes through everyday, especially the soft prisons that most wiseguys go to. I done seen prison photos of mobsters wearing tracksuits and playing tennis and shit, gimme a break. Wish I had time to play tennis.

Well said MM. And I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I don't wholeheartedly agree with him, I've been incarcerated and in many ways I had it better than out here. I somewhat agree with some things he said, but wholeheartedly? Nope!

Thats your prerogative DD. But what MM says is spot on IMO

For example, people say that in prison you can't go and do whatever you want, well it's the same thing out here. When you're on the clock under a boss man's thumb, putting up with people you don't like, having your hard-earned paycheck skimmed by Uncle Sam, not being able to do shit that you please, it's the same or worse as incarceration.

Imagine that, you're looking at a 40 year sentence and some how magically manage to get it knocked down to 3.5 years while your friend gets 20 years.

You can’t be serious. You don’t actually believe working for a living is as bad or worse as prison...inside you can’t be around women, inside your constantly on guard for the fact that something could pop off any minute and you could be murdered, inside your around people that are smuggling contraband in they’re asshole,inside a guard tells you when to shit and piss and your meals are at an assigned time everyday and you don’t get a choice what your gonna eat they tell you and you can only see your family on assigned days at assigned hours. And you have to see the shitty doctors that they tell you , you don’t have a choice(cause we all know the best docs would choose to be a prison doctor haha)Yeah same thing as being on the clock working under the boss man...

Sometimes I forget that most members on here are American, but yeah...I definitely assume that your average US prison is rough. And penalties are severe.

I can say however that prison over here where I live in Western Europe is a walk in the park.

It's pretty simple, "Keep your mouth and never rat on your friends."

What you're talking about mainly pertains to state prisons, wiseguys go to relaxed federal lockups where they play racquet ball and plant tomato gardens, with some good nightly card games thrown in for kicks. Only exceptions are mob fellas like John Gotti and Vincent Basciano, because they really pissed off the government, so they were put in supermax. But generally speaking? Shit, their prisons are a walk in the park compared to the ones your average criminal goes to, and that's facts!

No way, the federal max prisons are just as bad as state ones. The myth of feral prisons being easier came into play when a few minimum security places started putting in tennis courts Basketball courts are considered "Ghetto" while tennis was seen as a country club activity. There are many fed lockups where Mafia members are doing time that none of us would even want to work in, let alone be an inmate in one.

I have seen tons of wiseguy prison photos and they ALL look like they're having a blast to me. Some are even able to smuggle their sperm out and impregnate women. They're not stuck in shitty state prisons where people are getting stabbed and raped everyday, I know that for a FACT! Sure something can pop off every once and a while, but for the most part? Pfff!

Some wiseguys are doing hard time, like Gotti and Basciano because they humiliated the government. But most of them aren't. Are they in an ideal place? Of course not! Are they somewhere I would wanna be? Of course not! But I don't think it's bad enough to become a rat and risk losing your gangster legacy, all of your respect, and having your relatives turn their backs on you. Just do your time, it's that simple.

They smile and act like it's ok, but that is because if a man mopes and complains in prison he is not going to last. As for prison rapes in state prisons, that is also extremely exaggerated. Stabbings and attacks do happen, but over the dumbest things. true for federal as well as state prisons.

Yeah I always kinda thought the rapes were exaggerated.

Like jace was saying, they put on a bit of an act for the photo session. Basciano in particular really plays it up for the camera, even in ADX Florence he tries to make it look like he is enjoying himself but nobody can enjoy themselves by spending 23 hours a day in a cell.

Here Basciano is in ADX Florence trying his best to make it look like he is happy, but being surrounded by a cage makes it embarrassingly obvious that his happy demeanor is only an act.
https://cz.pinterest.com/pin/578431145866372916/

He's like: "look at this big enormous recreational cage they let me hang out in for a whole hour per day"

What about an enemy?, what about a terrorist?, what about a child molester?, can I rat on them?

In the Mafia there is supposed to be no cooperation with law enforcement, other street gangs or people in that type of life may feel ratting on an enemy is ok. In the older days I think the Mafia would kill a child molester or terrorists themselves, although it's ironic that if caught they would be the ones going to prison. Now I think that they may handle it different, it's a completely generation of Mafia members and their way of life has definitely changed. They let known rats live in the open, I can't see that happening if it were the 1940's.

Nawww, when you choose to live the life, choose the street as your place of business, your career, your mistress, then you embrace all that comes with it. Don't do the Crime if you can't do the time, if you break the law and are victimized in the process, you don't run to the fucking police, you step the fuck up and handle your business. If you need backup then get it, someone puts a number on your back, then go out like a man and take your medicine and take as many enemies as you can with you. As for terrorists, rapists and child molesters, I don't think it would unreasonable to state that they don't even merit existence on this planet. If I recall correctly the Gemini Crew took care of a rapist and a child molester, maybe on a contract, maybe not, dismemberment should be their portion in life.

1940s? That wouldn't have happened even in the 1990s.

He may not be the happiest camper, but it still don't look bad enough to justify all the ratting and living a disgraced life in the Witness Protection Program. And he was alleged to have plotted to have a prosecutor killed, that's why he's in supermax. If not for that he'd be playing the guitar and ping-pong with all the other imprisoned wiseguys I've seen. Not every wiseguy gets thrown in a cage like that, only the ones who really really rubbed the government the wrong way.

They would take care of child milestors unless the child molestor paid them money for kids or watched they’re tapes. Then they were ok.........disgusting....

Some funny comments on this thread. I'm not judging anyone but I find it odd that the same people who detest "rats" and use the argument they took an oath and are no good scum for breaking it don't seem to care about these same guys who for example took an oath of marriage and break it but they're not scum. I could name other examples but it comes down to what you believe in and don't believe. My example is only to counter the argument "they took an oath" broke it and therefor are scum. All kinds of oaths are taken by all sorts of people and are broken. So the mere fact they broke an oath as a mafia member makes them hated. Not the fact they're murderers, drug dealers, thieves etc. Sounds like a bunch of apologists for the ones who don't violate this oath in order to hold them in some strange esteem. Odd to me that the "oath" is this new 11th commandment and just for the record, these criminals pretty much destroy all of the other 10, and no one cares, LOL. Again, not judging just an observation

How old are you? You have some pretty out there takes!

It seems like some of the mafia families need to use this board for recruitment. Tons of stone cold gangsters that would never rat.

Dilly should be immediately elevated to capo too.... he’s not only not scared of prison he thinks it’s better then being free! And he would never tarnish his gangster legacy if he was facing a long prison sentence!!

Homers77, you're right. Like I said a lot of funny comments by some folks. I agree with you

And if I recall correctly I believe the Gemini Crew boss was in the child porn business.

Or the child molester is a big earner like Sally Burns, and in that case the family boss and will protect them.

Yeah, I've heard that rumor and that Roy actually pimped children out but nobody is on record saying that or bringing up proof that he actually peddled porn himself directly. He was involved with a porn ring in a Times Square operation and also owned a porn shop and strip joint in Jersey that he was adding prostitution to. Most of these were operations he got into through shylocking.when they couldn't make the Vig and had to bring him in for a piece of the operation.

Even rats have to take an oath when they step into the witness stand.

Nino found out about Roy dealing in kiddie porn and threatened to kill him if he continued. Roy continued anyway and Nino turned a blind eye to it and carried on accepting tribute money knowing where it came from.

What freedoms do you actually have out here, working around the clock with a boss cracking a proverbial whip over your back, giving up your time just for a paycheck to pay bills for a house you never get to stay in, and oh yeah while you're on the clock you have to deal with coworkers you have to pretend to like (same with inmates if you were in prison) and you can't come and go as you please (just like prison) they got you by the balls! I can draw parallels all day between so-called "freedom" and prison, it's really no difference. In some cases it's even worse out here. So no if I was a legendary gangster I would gladly take my life sentence and my 3 free hot meals a day and ping-pong and board games. Has nothing to do with being tough, nobody is being tortured, nobody's having their fingernails peeled back or their toes cut off. Please! Gimme a fucking break 🙄

That depends, situation you explained is someone who is very unhappy with his life. Living just to survive

I just get tired of everyone trying to justify snitching, to be honest most of these rats resurface later in worse shape than they would've been if they just did their time. A few were found sleeping in their cars because they were abandoned by the government that they helped (karma lol) and look at Henry Hill, straight up junkie and alcoholic and known as a snitch for the rest of his life. No by comparison prison doesn't seem any worse, if anything it would've been better.

Do you work 24-7 w no holidays or 0 time off cause that’s prison life. Are you working while your sleeping like Ralph Gigante? Because in prison ,real prison you sleep like shit from all the anxiety of being murdered in your sleep. Just like work.....

https://youtu.be/8-QN0uPOsZQ Here’s an interview w Bobby who became a biker,but got his start being peddled to grown men when he was a kid by DB and Roy Demeo......

Made man is prison: Playing ping pong and board games with the boys.

You in prison: Dressed up in a skirt with lip stick on while you are sucking dicks everyday.

Okay Neo, my point is that for the most part lots of these rats lost more than they gained. All their respect, their pride, their dignity, down the drain. It's one thing for some lowly scrub associate to turn, he never had much to lose. But Casso? Guy ended up dying in prison anyway and will be forever remembered by most as "that rat"

No serious person believes Roy Demeo or anyone e else like DiBernardo pimped boys or girls, but assholes like to push it one people. John Alite video with an interview is no proof, he'll get others to back him up on demoting Joe Gallo and anything else he wants. Youtube has become the biggest source or whatever anyone wants to find.

We're discussing rats, and the same posters turn to kid porn as an argument, as usual.

These are the teacher's pet at school and the boss's ass kissers at work. The neighborhood crime watchers, so of course they love rats.

I was never a teacher's pet, but I am a neighborhood crime watcher, so to speak. That so-called associate of Demeo that is in the video Louie put's up every few weeks is a man who claims, among other things, that he told Roy Demeo to go fuck himslf. Sure, tell us another one, it's what I expect from Alite and Borrello.

Paul Castellano was indiicted for child pornography in 1980? I must have missed that one and he told Roy to fuck off because he's so hard he shits cut nails, gethefukouttaheah, guy's a good story teller but he's so full of shit his back teeth are brown. Roy had a piece of a sex emporium in Bricktown, NJ from shylocking and showed Nino what was being sold there. That's when Nino told him to stop or get killed but Roy ignored him and eventually Nino lost his morality, except when Roy wanted Montiglio to deliver pornvto Bricktown which Nino was against because it would break Montiglio's grandmother's heart if was arrested for porn.

Who were the few found sleeping in their cars?

Lester Zullo was one and I forgot the other one.

Paul Castellano was an unindicted coconspirator in the case against Theo Rothstein and DB

Title of this should be NOT Becoming a Rat, is it all that Bad?

My 2cents;

Things like this are formed at the top. So would any of us here rat? I think for MOST of us, it would depend. Lets say you were brought into this thing young. Your whole identity is formed around it. The people around you are stand up guys. They always have your back and do the right thing. You go away your family is taken care of. You get out, you're taken care of. Nobody rats on you, nobody rats on each other.

If you were brought into a strong, tight brotherhood like that you probably wouldnt rat [ unless you're just a weak, selfish coward ].

Now if you were brought into something thats dog-eat-dog? Guys stabbing each other in the back, bosses flipping, you go away your family starves, you come out and nobody has time for you....most people will be much more likely to flip under those circumstances.

So I would say guys ratting is not just about the guys who rat, its about the breakdown of the whole organization.

Well freedom is always better than prison, but 99% of rats would keep living the life of crime if they didn't get caught. So once they are caught all of a sudden they regret their life of crime. Its same with dirty cops , if you are a cop , be a cop , if you are a criminal ,be a criminal.

Neo, that just goes to show what a spineless, selfish coward you are, that you would sell out others to buy your freedom. You're a piece of shit of the highest order, totally devoid of all manliness and honor.

You are either living in your own fantasy world or you are just straight up lying if you are trying to suggest you would take life imprisonment without the possibility of parole over becoming an informant and getting your freedom back in a few years time.

All this shit talk and you'd probably roll on your mother to get out of a $500 traffic fine.

Neo, now you're protecting. Just because you would doesn't mean anyone else would. You have zero idea of what anyone would do, but we all know what you would do. 😉

I mean, just look at the title of this thread, glorifying tattle-telling. You're just not a solid guy, you're watered-down.

"tattle-telling" smfh

Your use of words make you sound very young and your choice of username makes you sound like a fucking cross dresser, so I'm guessing your not a hardcore gangster in real life?

You don't have to be a "hard-core gangster," just be solid and stand up for what you believe in. Unfortunately, you believe in being a rat 🐀

That's a good post. I will add that to me, one exception is the guys who are in a strong tight group, but rat anyway snd use the excuse that the group was not close or loyal. Every gang from bikers to Bloods, Mexican cartels, the Mafia, all have a rat or 2 regardless of how strong the group is. I get a feeling that the gangs in other countries are the strongest these days (I am in the United States)

Cross dressing lady boys like you get ass raped in prison. It's a bit hard for you to claim your a stand up guy when you will be on your knees sucking your celly's dick.

Why is Casso and Amuso plotting to kill D'Arco justification for him ratting like he wasn't going to do it anyway? The guy was siphoning off money that was supposed to be going to the top, just like that other rat Accetturo. He also brought his junkie son into the life and had him doing half-assed hits. It was only a matter of time before the son got jammed up, and D'Arco would rat to protect him.

Amuso's problem, like Stanfa in Philly, is that he surrounded himself with unqualified and spineless people.

He named Joe De Fede acting boss shortly after going to prison and De Fede did the exact same thing as D'Arco, using his promotion to line his own pockets.

That's because in the USA the penalties are still comparatively harsh and a lot of prisons (when it comes to general population) are still quite rough.

Compared to the USA, the judicial system in for instance Canada and Western Europe is a joke. You get seven years and you're out in two.

Furthermore prison life over here isn't all that dangerous. We don't have gangs like they do in the USA. Over here where I live most are locked up due to some sort of connection with organized crime. Most of it is ethnicity-based: Sicilians, Calabrians, Turks, Kurds, Albanians, Moroccans, Dutch travellers, Armenians, Georgians, Chechens, Russians, Assyrians, Israelis, Serbs, Greeks, members of outlaw motorcycle groups or just Belgian white collar criminals... but there's nothing like the "racial tension" that exists in US prisons. Most of those guys here are locked up for serious stuff; in the US you see gang members getting locked up for years and years just because they were caught selling a few nickel bags, over here they get locked up because they were connected to tons.
These are definitely serious guys who did kill people outside prison, but in prison they're not going to shank you. If you keep your head down and respectfully interact with others, you're going to be fine.

Anybody would still take freedom over prison and there are still rats over here as well, but there do seem to be way less than in the USA. I mean, why would you rat over here? If you're someone with serious connections you'll be back in business in a year or two when you get out and your life is rarely in danger in prison.

Don't underestimate American LE (DEA, FBI) , they have influence all over the world.

Funny how American law enforcement is the toughest but it's done nothing to reduce our crime rate. We're still considered one of the most violent countries. Tough laws have seriously hurt organized crime but haven't done shit to disorganized crime. But the government don't really care about disorganized crime because they're not making money, organized crime makes a ton of money and they get ahead in the system, our sleazebag government don't want lower class people getting ahead or being their competitors. It's not a problem until you're making serious money then you're on their radar. Why anyone here like Neo would take the sides of such slimeballs is beyond my understanding.

Just because we think you are a little dork who acts tough doesn’t mean we believe in being a rat.

We just think it is ridiculous to act like you would never rat when you have no idea what you would do. It’s easy to say you would never rat while your sitting in your moms basement on the internet. I hope it never happens to you but if you were in jail facing 100 years I guarantee the decision wouldn’t be as easy as you make it out of be.

The reality is 99% of mobsters are scumbag crooks who fuck people over for a living. I am not sure why it is such a surprise that a lot of them are willing to fuck over their friends instead of doing hard time.

And the ones that do stand tall are the ones that know their families will be okay if they thought their wife and kids were going to starve they would all rat too.

I agree there is always a percentage of people that will sell anybody out to save their own skin. Even if they know they will be taken care of, they'll still rat. I would add to my original post that taking care of guys' families while they're away and taking care of them when they get out is HUGE but also, on the other side, you should be able to reach a rat and whack him.

There are two sides there, the stick and the carrot. The carrot meaning they know they will be taken care of if they stand up, the stick meaning they will be 'taken care of' if they flip. So you'd need an organization that is strong, far reaching, and honorable.

I also agree with Killingjoke, the state of the sentencing and prison system has alot to do with it. Doing time in many American prisons is a form of torture. If I were facing 50 years in the USA? The choice would be either rat or hang myself. There is no WAY I would ever do that kind of time here.

. Great Post!!!

It's not about taking sides, it's about living in the real world which is a far cry from your fantasy world where you are a stand up guy that would never rat even when facing a life sentence.

I had an acquaintance that was facing life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. Like you he wasn't a street guy. He would have ratted his way out of his life sentence if he could but LE didn't need him, so he found another way out, he committed suicide.

Anyone on this forum would do whatever they could to get out of a life sentence. I don't buy that shit that -"nobody knows what they will do until they are in that situation". It's a fucking life sentence. Nobody here can convince me they can hold up against a life sentence.

Well there have been guys who stood up to life sentences and didnt rat. Guys have gone to the chair without ratting so the idea that EVERYBODY is a rat at heart just isnt so.

LOTS of people HAVE and ARE holding up against life sentences, it just seems like everybody's ratting because the media makes a huge spectacle out of every single mob rat, and they become celebrities with YouTube channels and podcasts. But the ones doing their time with their mouths shut far outnumber the rats. Quit accusing people of doing what you would do, that's called projection.

Exactly Mamaluke, great point! 👍Can't believe this forum is so chalk-full of pro-government bootlicking rat lovers.

No ones saying most mobsters don’t keep they’re mouth shut(especially when it’s NOT life they’re looking at)we’re talking about you ,how you and people that aren’t mobsters wouldn’t keep they’re mouth shut and do life in the penitentiary, you and other Internet poster wannabes aren’t built like that....

Why are you always separating the concepts of "organized crime" and "government"?

First of all, you don't fucking know me. I've done time, it didn't bother me one bit. 3 free hot meals a day and a bed to sleep in, with recreation where I got to shoot hoops or play baseball. In fact twice I got time added on, and stayed for several years when I only received one year. So you need to watch your fucking mouth acting all tough on the Internet, when you know good and goddamn well you're not down to meet anyone in real life and say it to their face. It wasn't that bad, as long as you stay to yourself and don't borrow anything or gamble or make friends. Everything was free, if I wanted a hygiene package or special snacks I'd just have it sent from the outside. In some ways I liked it better than out here, at least I can say I never worked my ass off, I just had a few chores.

And learn the difference between their, they're, and there.

Louiebynochi you're a fucking punk, a pussy. You and I know you only talk shit from behind your keyboard. But you're playing it smart, so stay safe, punk bitch.

Dwalin or whatever the fuck your corny ass name is, because it's obvious that anyone who tries to find an excuse for ratting loves cops, tells on their coworkers, and has 911 on speed dial for when things get real.

Louiebynochi, just because you're a bitch who couldn't serve heavy sentences for crimes that you committed, doesn't mean everyone else is. You're just like Neo, are you sure your account doesn't also belong to that worthless piece of garbage?

Mafia-type organizations always had protection and connections to politicians and law enforcement, that’s what makes them different from other types of criminals;
It’s absurd to consider them as something 100% separate from the government and in opposition to it. Some law enforcement people go after them, but many others help them instead. The mafia has always had connections with powerful people, including government officials.
Don’t tell me you have never heard of politicians who are also members of the mafia.

And stop playing tough, it's way too easy for a wannabe like you to do so while hiding behind internet anonymity. You just want to troll, not to talk about the mafia.

You're the one playing tough here Dweeblin, and you're also hiding behind internet anonymity. Come on out, you little bitch.

Just keep trolling...

I didn't say "everybody". This is what I said:

"Anyone on this forum would do whatever they could to get out of a life sentence. I don't buy that shit that -"nobody knows what they will do until they are in that situation". It's a fucking life sentence. Nobody here can convince me they can hold up against a life sentence."

Those are hardcore criminals that lived a certain way all their life. That ain't nothing your panzy ass can do.

Neo, to me it's the same difference. Just like you can't say EVERYBODY would rat you also can't say ANYONE ON THIS FORUM would rat. You don't know anyone here personally, so again quit saying that everyone on this forum would do what you would do. Matter of fact, it takes rat material to even think up a thread like this. You gave yourself away with just the title.

Now you're taking shit talking to the next level.

Nobody that has done seven years in prison would use the term "tattle-telling".

When internet geeks on this forum say things like: " Nobody can know for certain if they can stand up to a life sentence without ratting, until they are in that situation" is like me saying I can't be certain whether or not I can beat Floyd Mayweather in a fight because I haven't been in a fight with him. So I refuse to confirm Floyd Mayweather can beat me in a fight since I haven't fought him. That makes me feel much tougher.

How about you, do you feel tougher by refusing to confirm you can't hold up against a life sentence?

. Dude calm down 😂

Neo the Punk: Nobody that has done seven years in prison would use the term "tattle-telling".

I happen to have the proof, in black-and-white, you fucktard. And you used a horrible analogy, comparing a life sentence to a fight with Mayweather. Not all prisons are the same, and it's not like everyone says it is, it's been largely exaggerated. Most of the federal prisons that wiseguys go to aren't hard-core, everyone sees movies like American Me and Blood-In-Blood-Out and think every prison is exactly like in the movies. Most of the federal lockups that mob guys and white-collar crooks end up are a walk in the park, people aren't getting shanked and raped everyday. Even in state prisons, if you stay to yourself, don't borrow, don't gamble, and don't accept gifts your time won't be that bad. You're just a born snitch, with zero backbone or integrity.

I can confirm, had I chose a life of crime and got MYSELF jammed up, I'm not taking anyone down with me. What about you Neo? Oh wait, you already told us what you would do 😆🤣😂

Show proof....

I'm not showing you shit Neo 😒 fuck you 🤣

JCrusher, uh, I've actually posted some of the most interesting threads here, with tons of feedback. What the fuck have you contributed but opinions that no one cares about? Huh?

um…I think you misinterpreted. I was just kidding around 😂

Claiming you have proof then refusing to show it just shows how full of shit you are.

I'm just kidding too, some people take these posts too serious.

didn’t sound like you were kidding especially with similar posts in this thread 😂

I find it strange that Gravano is always bashing Gotti and using him as an excuse for flipping, yet he knew exactly the kind of man Gotti was when he helped him take over the Gambino Family and when he became his underboss. He went along with it until it was time to pay the piper. I do understand that it was Gotti's big mouth, but still.

The only one acting tough and pretending behind the keyboard is you, where’s your proof convict? Your a tough guy w a prisoner badge, let’s see it?? The tough guy convict who gives a tsk tsk for “tattle telling” and “properly using they’re or their”....paint your face cause your a clown...

Louiebynochi, go blow a horse.

You are on this forum so I assume this applies to you. You say you would do 'whatever you could' to get out of a life sentence, would you give up your mother? Your father? How about your brother?

I should have said: "Anyone on this forum would do almost whatever they could to get out of a life sentence."

I suppose there is limits to what a person will do for their freedom. There have however been mobsters that have rolled on their father or brother to get out of a life sentence.

Mamaluke,

The answer to your question is YES, YES, AND YES! That piece of garbage 🗑 would rat everyone out just so he can eat at restaurants and go to nightclubs. Society is crawling with spineless weasels like Neo.

Fucking internet.........in the safe environment of the virtual world the internet even makes cross dressing dancing lady boys like DillyDolly think they are stand up guys and solid as fuck.

Sad but true...Unfortunately this is the new world we live in :-(

Absolutely. Very sad indeed. Look we are all here because mob history interests us just like sports or movies or whatever else. But over the past few months I’ve seen many new people acting like they’re proud “made men” hardened ex cons, and seem obsessed with talking about “rats”. On one hand it’s hilarious but on another it’s sad like you said

What I find to be even more hilarious is the fact that at least 99% of all posters on these various Mob oriented sites live their "Wantabe Gangster" lives vicariously thru their research. If they really knew and understood the "life" either being a real Mob guy or through their friendship with real Mob guys, I believe they'd have a much different opinion ;-)

Obsessed with talking about rats? Last I checked we're not the ones who started this thread. In most cases it's very easy to say that I wouldn't have done it, like I said most mob guys and white-collar crooks aren't doing hard time, they're in there riding mechanical bulls and planting tomato gardens. Guys like Rastelli, Persico, Amuso, and Mancuso were still able to get orders out onto the streets, if prison life for the mob was so hard no way would that be possible. You guys were just born snitches, I bet when you got your ass kicked you didn't try to get vengeance on your own, you went crying for mommy and daddy or the teacher. You sissies have 911 on speed dial lol, especially you Neo.

@Friend_of_Henry. Absolutely

Friend of Henry: No one here thinks they are a gangster, and most (Including myself) would never commit a crime. I also will call the police in a heartbeat if I see a crime. I know as do others here we are not gangsters, it's in discussing people who take an oath, choose a lifestyle, have friends do time for them, yet rat when their time comes that we analyze them and then dislike them at the least. No one but a rat themselves, or rat's family member can say they like rats. Easy to understand to anyone with an open mind.

You seem to have trouble differentiating yourself from the mob guys you read about.

You see a few pictures of mob guys in prison looking like they aren't doing too bad and because you think you're just like them you assume your experience in prison will be just the same. It won't. Because you ain't them.

Jace, I don't commit crimes either, except the occasional petty shoplifting or dine and dash. And I WOULD NOT call the police if I see a crime being committed. I'm not going to snitch on the little guy when you have politicians bankers and corporate elites robbing and plundering everywhere LEGITIMATELY! There are few exceptions, however, like child molestation or animal abuse, but for the most part I believe in minding my own business. As far as rats' family members, there are occasions when a rat's own relatives disowned him, and for good reason. Nobody likes a stoolie, whether they're involved in crime or not, whether they're gangsters or not. The only people who like rats are lowlifes like Neo.

So you'd snitch on someone for not looking after their dog properly but if you seen a innocent girl get tortured to death you wouldn't snitch?

Obviously you don't understand the difference between a "Wantabe" gangster" and a "Gangster".
However Thanx for explaining what a "rat" is. I never knew that. You must be the brains of the outfit :-)

Obviously you don't understand the difference between a "Wantabe" gangster" and a "Gangster".
However Thanx for explaining what a "rat" is. I never knew that. You must be the brains of the outfit :-)

Look who's talking, you said, regarding people here:

"Wantabe Gangster" lives vicariously thru their research. If they really knew and understood the "life" either being a real Mob guy or through their friendship with real Mob guys,

That's about the same, and what the heck do you know about being a gangster?? You know the life, but no one else here does---you better never bring up brains again.

Neo, you're even dumber than I thought. Either that or you're just being a wise-ass, twisting my words around to mean what you want. I was talking more along the lines of beating animals, but yes I would report someone for torturing a little girl. Geez what an extreme example. But I'll tell you what, if I saw someone breaking into your house while you were gone I wouldn't report it, in fact I'd probably pitch in and help.

Not to worry, I'll never bring up brains again in your presence, 'cause you certainly missed out as shown by your continued foolish statements.Obviously you know more about the "Life" than any of us. Unlike you, that knows everything or thinks they know everything, I know nothing. We're done! I don't get in pissin' contests with snakes so go piss on someone else's shoes.

Okay so you'd turn rat if you see anyone committing a crime you don't like. Kind of like a selective rat, you'll rat on people for breaking certain laws. Not even going to try and handle those situations yourself like the ex-convict you claim you are?

Made guys take an oath if they betray Cosa Nostra they must die, in 'ndrangheta they even get a cyanide pill.

Child molestation and torturing children is outside the criminal code, even hardened criminals would support life sentences for those types. I was once in a courtroom before where everyone's charges were read out loud and this one black guy's charges were molesting some little girl. Everyone yelled "give him life" so yeah sick crimes like that are different. But any crimes that involves lining your pockets and making riches is honorable, never rat on people making a living and getting ahead.

Why not just kick their heads in instead of calling the Police on them?

I would call the police if I saw something that I thought was wrong. Whether or not its legal is not really the issue. Im not a cop, its not my job to go around checking the criminal codes and reporting people. If I see a neighbor growing a weed plant in his yard Im not going to run to the phone and call 911. LOL. "Oh my god that guy is committing a CRIME!!"

Like 90% of all rational people, I believe in live and let live. If somebody is getting hurt I might feel the need to do something, otherwise I mind my business.

That's fair enough.

That video is so wrong, they get a new social security number, a new name, a fresh start, and job leads or a job outright. Michael DiLeonardo was reported by Gangland a few years ago to be getting $4,0000 a month in case he is needed again, or remembers anything new. Henry Hill had to be arrested multiple times before he was kicked out of Witness Protection.

Dunno if you’ve been banned or not, and don’t really care, but do you really think the underworld is full of men of honour? Geez kiddo, the reason murder is used as an inforcement tool is because it’s full of people that only care about one person - them. And only the fear of a bullet stops them saving their skins. Hang around with them for a year, and if you survive, see just how loyal they will be to you without the fear of retribution.
I admire your misplaced loyalty but kiddo they will eat you alive as they laugh at you

. Very Well Said

I'm not from the USA, but over here I grew up with quite a few guys who turned career criminal later on in their life. Most of them already had family members in the underworld back when they were kids so there were warning signs. Not to stereotype, but within many communities over here getting into organized crime seems to be a trade passed through the male members of a family. Italians, Turks, Kurds, Albanians, Moroccans, Assyrians...or just local Dutch and Belgian people who come from a "Traveller" background or who are involved in an outlaw motorcycle lifestyle...if they got family members in the life, there's a risk of them following in those footsteps. Nevertheless, the vast majority of the families in any of those communities consist of hardworking people.

I've done many legitimate favors for some down the road, like helping some find legit jobs when they got out of the can, helping out with translations and paper work when buying cars across border, etc...
I'm acquainted enough with some of them to know that you always have to keep your wits about you. Professional criminals, no matter which background, can be very easy to get along with, but at the end of the day most of them are prone to violence and care about two things first and foremost: themselves and their money. That's just the way it is.