There's a new four part documentary on Fox Nation about Jimmy Hoffa and his disappearance. I haven't seen any of it as of yet but I have read about it on line. I don't know how reliable the information is or how factual. My only question is the documentary claims (as has been reported before) Hoffa is definitely buried in NJ under the Pulaski Skyway. They cant prove this because NJ hasn't given the investigators the approval to dig the area up yet. If it's true he's buried there, why in the world would you kill anyone in Detroit and drive across the country with a dead body in the car just to bury it in NJ? Seems to me extremely risky and stupid. I personally don't believe he's anywhere in NJ. I'd bet the body was disposed of in Michigan, i'm pretty sure there's plenty of ways to dispose of him in Detroit with the Zerilli's contacts/help. Anyway, was Tony Pro so arrogant and angry that he ordered his minions to produce the body to prove he was dead? I just don't get why you do that. Am I completely wrong and it's not so risky and stupid a move to transport a dead body across the country simply to dispose of it in NJ?
THAT is complete, unequivocal bullshit!... Fucking ridiculous! Leave it to these asshole TV documentary producers to put out that drivel. Think about it ok?
Tony Provenzano, a Genovese capo under a boss Frank (Funzi) Tieri, and an EXTREMELY intelligent hierarchy. Joe Zerilli - another friggin boss! As well as THE ENTIRE COMMISSION! The top guys in the country.
Do you really think they would risk transporting a "dead body" clear across the country, a 1000 miles to NJ and risk exposure, when then could "plant him with lime" in a hole within a few miles away, crush him in a car compactor, or burn him in an incinerator and destroy the body?
It takes a few minutes and "poof" Hoffa's gone forever!........ its crazy to even consider it. Do not believe that garbage.
NOBODY in their right mind, even a legit sucker, let alone a mafia boss, let alone the consultations of ALL top mafia bosses, would ever condone and agree to that!
Yeah, as I stated above I agree but wanted to hear others thoughts and theories. Maybe someone has a theory that concurs with the idea he was brought to NJ and could make an argument for it that's all
If he was under the Skyway, good luck finding anything now. That place was a garbage dump called PJP Landfill. (Owned by someone with the Genovese.) It was on fire for literally several years in the 1980s.
Maybe someone has a theory that concurs with the idea he was brought to NJ and could make an argument for it that's all
NJ has a lot of toxic waste sites...
Have you been to the Bronx lately?
Hoffa was cremated and was done in Michigan. They only incinerated his body when the feds launched the investigation and coming down hard on the members, mainly those with ties to the Teamsters. We know five of the six that were there, the sixth person is most likely lost in history.
It appears DM made an effort to have sources on the other side of LE, unlike JC who is a stenographer for the FBI. BUT, Hoffa didn't leave Michigan and his body immediately incinerated or put through a meat auger in the Eastern Market. Detroit did the hit and no one from N.J. was there; it makes zero sense to be there. Trusted Hoffa associate Tony G. was enough to lure him into the car. And yes, maybe Sheeran was there, also.
It appears DM made an effort to have sources on the other side of LE, unlike JC who is a stenographer for the FBI. BUT, Hoffa didn't leave Michigan and his body immediately incinerated or put through a meat auger in the Eastern Market. Detroit did the hit and no one from N.J. was there; it makes zero sense to be there. Trusted Hoffa associate Tony G. was enough to lure him into the car. And yes, maybe Sheeran was there, also.
I have to agree. Why would Tony Pro, Sally Bugs, Gabe and Steve Andretta, or any other NY/NJ guy need to fly to Detroit? Why? Why? Detroit doesn't have enough capable killers? Lol, Of course they do!
The ONLY reason why Pro would have had to be there was if the "meeting" was under the pretext of making nice, making amends between Pro and Hoffa in order to lure him in.
But even under that scenario they could just say that Tony Pro, Tony Giacalone, and company are waiting in the house were the meeting is to take place in order to "lure" Hoffa into the death car. Period!
Its called "gangland slayings 101"....basic common sense. Either way, it's a very small point at best.
Jimmy Hoffa was whacked right in Detroit and either buried in a hole with lime, thrown in a vat of acid right there, or brought to a funeral home that a local wiseguy owned and burned up ASAP. A fourth option was to crush him in a car and throw him in a landfill.......... destroy all evidence, quickly, and efficiently.
But for my money, considering that Zerilli, Tony Pro, Tony Jack, and Funzuola damn well knew that this disappearance and potential homicide would draw the ire of every law enforcement agency in the country...... his body was totally destroyed, as completely and as "quickly" as possible! End of Hoffa, End of story!
You AIN'T taking the chance of hauling a dead man, especially a national figure (a murder victim no less) like Jimmy Hoffa 1,000 miles so you can plant him in the "end zone" of Giants Stadium, or put him in a vat of acid, or plant him in a field with "Brother Moscato!"
And with all due respect to "Dan Moldea," ..... Fuck him and his theory!.... He's a journalist, a writer, that's know less than "Zero" about the mob and how things REALLY work.
It's almost comical that after almost 45 years this debate is still going on! It's actually a testament to the "efficiency" of Cosa Nostra at that time.
The Hoffa disappearance has become one of the biggest mysteries of modern times..... He's another Big Foot!
now THAT'S Cosa Nostra at its finest!... or deadliest!
And if what I've just said is not enough to convince the naysayers, consider and remember this... When wiseguys commit a murder, especially when they're gonna clip a guy as high profile as internationally known Teamsters Leader Jimmy Hoffa. Knowing the fallout and "heat" thats coming their way. They are gonna involve as few mafiosi as possible. Made guys or no made guys doesn't even matter. They're gonna look to limit their "exposure."
That means using as few people as possible to get the job done! The Hoffa hit was approved by the Commission (obviously), and carried out by Joe Zerilli's' crew, under the watchful eye of the Genovese hierarchy and several other top bosses in NYC (maybe)!!!!
This wasn't a walk in the park. And they knew that. They ain't inviting 93 hoods to jump into the mix...... You think the bosses are stupid? Or crazy??
Just to play Devil's Advocate,let's say one of the tips on the location of Hoffa's body pans out and they find it. What then?
Let's assume further that there are sufficient remains to conduct forensic exams and the body is positively identified as Hoffa.
We still won't know the actual killer(s),or where the hit took place,or how the body wound up where it did.We still know he's dead,and we still don't know who did it.
So the "where's Hoffa" mystery gets solved, but that's about it. All the tabloids,newspapers,and TV specials go away,and tons of Advertising revenue go with them.
My guess is that the focus will shift to "based on the discovery of Hoffa's body" we (meaning CBS or A&E or FOX,or Discovery,or The National Enquirer) have new information that will finally reveal the identity of the Killer(s).
Thus another round of "Hoffa mystery finally solved" for God knows how many years.
“ And with all due respect to "Dan Moldea," ..... Fuck him and his theory!.... He's a journalist, a writer, that's know less than "Zero" about the mob and how things REALLY workâ€
Your claim of having intimate knowledge of the mob is no different than my claim that I saw Bigfoot 4 minutes ago.
Until you prove it, you’re just an avg jagoff like the rest of us.
Again, Dan Moldea and his 40+ years of research about Hoffa is going to outweigh your fake ass claim of knowing mobsters.
My only point of contention "under the watchful ... eye of". Detroit is autonomous and on the Commission for a reason. They don't take orders. If they chose to keep Hoffa alive, they would have, with the backing of brother Outfit Chicago. No one is pushing Detroit around, as tough as Tony Pro was.
This is what I got. It was Detroit and Hoffa never left Michigan. There were two teams, one at the actually kill site, and another at the burial site. Hoffa was picked up at the restraunt by Peter Vitale, Raffaele Quasarano, and another guy, someone who Hoffa trusted, and I am leaning to it being Salvatore Palazzola, but this guy is lost to history so it is speculation. They drove to Carlo Licata house, between the carport house they entered into the kitchen from there, and that is where Jack Gianosa strangled Hoffa and Vito Giacalone held Hoffa legs, while Carlo Licata sat on a stool and got excited and walked over to Hoffa as he was taking his last breaths. Once done, they loaded up Hoffa's body into the trunk and brought it to the Anthony's at Tocco farm in Oakland Township. They dropped it have while Peter Vitale brother Paul got into the vehicle with Jimmy Q and Peter to get rid of it. At the farm were Anthony Giacalone, Anthony Palazzola, Anthony Tocco, Joseph Brooklier, and a another member lost to history and speculation again it might be either Phil Palazzola, or Vincent Finazzo that buries Jimmy Hoffa. Now days later Peter Licata travelled to New York, and was meeting with New York and New Jersey members, notably from the Genovese family, Jimmy Brown of the Gambino family was with Joe N. Gallo when they got a coded message from Genovese member Carmine Zeccardi, and they were not happy with a Detroit buy being buried instead of getting rid of, this was the Genovese who were angry, and Carlo Gambino showed no emotion but shook his head disapproval. Now again this is speculation but the timeline and Hoffa disappearance matches up perfectly. When Peter Vitale got back to Detroit, after a few days, him, Anthony Tocco, and Jack Gianosa went to the farm, but called it off do to the area having a heavy law enforcement presence near by. They waited for things to die down. When they felt it save, Peter Vitale, Raffaele Quasarano, and Anthony Palazzola, went to the farm at another time maybe a month or more later, dug up Hoffas body and took him to a incinerator that Jimmy Q owned and got rid of the body and vehicle that was used to transfer the body. That is as much information as I know.
My only point of contention "under the watchful ... eye of". Detroit is autonomous and on the Commission for a reason. They don't take orders. If they chose to keep Hoffa alive, they would have, with the backing of brother Outfit Chicago. No one is pushing Detroit around, as tough as Tony Pro was.
You are correct, and incorrect, when you say that nobody is "ordering" Detroit around. I readily admit that they are an autonomous family, the same way that every family in the US is/or was. And they pretty much rule themselves.
But when you are dealing with a national prominent figure like Hoffa, That each major Family was intimately interacting with (especially the NY, Kansas City, and Chicago Families at that time). And his potential murder can, would, and did, have national ramifications, and implications for ALL those borgatas, as far as exposure to FBI probes and the potential loss of millions. Then it becomes a very important issue that the national "Commission" deals with. Especially Jimmy Hoffa, and the Teamsters Union which was a annual multimillion dollar cash cow for Cosa Nostra.
So in that case, Detroit, Chicago, or any New York City crew is NOT deciding his murder without the consultation of the Commission. Period! And if in fact the Commission makes the decision NOT to kill Hoffa, Believe me when I tell you that Joe Zerilli, Tony Jack, Tony Pro, or anybody else is NOT overriding that decision.
It has been that way since the formation of the Commission in 1931. It was formed for just such an event, that could adversely affect multiple borgatas.... It would have been a major breach of Cosa Nostra protocol to do otherwise. ----
“ And with all due respect to "Dan Moldea," ..... Fuck him and his theory!.... He's a journalist, a writer, that's know less than "Zero" about the mob and how things REALLY workâ€
Your claim of having intimate knowledge of the mob is no different than my claim that I saw Bigfoot 4 minutes ago.
Until you prove it, you’re just an avg jagoff like the rest of us.
Again, Dan Moldea and his 40+ years of research about Hoffa is going to outweigh your fake ass claim of knowing mobsters.
--- First of all, Moldea was a journalist who received his info, correct or incorrect, from the FBI, other sources who may or may not be viable, as well as making up shit as he goes along for sensationalism and to sell his book. Period!....... especially about a subject as hush, hush, as the Jimmy Hoffa disappearance.
He had about as much intimate knowledge of the mob, as you or I have about performing brain surgery. Thats not a putdown of Moldea. That's the correct answer for 99.9% of the journalists and writers out there following the mob. - And as far as you seeing Bigfoot and my assimilation of the same, I take exception to that statement. And furthermore, if you prefer to consider yourself a jag off, like the "rest of us" as you say. That may be your assessment of yourself. And I feel bad for you if you look in the mirror and feel that way about yourself. But I'm no jag off, jerkoff, or any other derogatory term you care to put out there. Don't put me in that category (or the category you feel you are in).
As far as me having to "prove" to you, or anybody else for that matter, that I am very much intimate with the Italian underworld, especially the NYC crews. I don't feel any "need" whatsoever to prove that. If my writings and plethora of delicate information (as well as the way I put it forward), doesn't already ring a bell of "truth" to it, then maybe you are correct in your assessment of yourself after all.
There is a damn good reason why I use my pen name of "The Other Guy," as opposed to using my true name as my partner Lisa does. And its not because I'm a fraud, and hide behind a pen name because I'm some popcorn writer who's enamored with the mob. - You might wanna really think about that for a minute or two. Let's see if you can deduce the proper conclusion from what I've just mentioned.
Whatever you say John, but more times than not, families have paid lip service to the commission. Most of the time they just bend the rules instead of breaking them, but by the 1970s many associates were told to lie if they are asked about breaking the rules. Even made members were breaking the rules, not all of them, but by the 1980s and onwards it was apparent that they were.
NO Family pays "lip service" to the Commission! Especially back 4 decades ago when Cosa Nostra was Cosa Nostra.
As far as skirting certain rules, or individual wiseguys (soldiers, captains, and even bosses) sliding between the rain drops on certain things. Yes. I do agree with you. Its been done since the beginning of time, many times over........but only on certain things that they felt they could hide within their own family, or avoid admitting prior knowledge of. Never something like a Hoffa murder. Only typical affairs within their own borgata, that would not adversely affect other Family bosses and hierarchies.
But something such as this? Which was one of the most high-profile gangland disappearances in American history? Of a national labor leader no less, who ran the largest labor union in the United States? The Teamsters Union?? You gotta be kidding me!
With all the fallout, ramifications, and potential federal law enforcement scrutiny and massive problems that Hoffa's disappearance and his presumed murder would bring? NO way in hell would Detroit, the 5 crews in NYC, Chicago, or any other Family go ahead and move against the dictates of the entire Commission. NO WAY IN HELL!...... and they are NOT "sneaking" this by the other families without seeking prior approval!....How do you think they'd even accomplish that?? Do you not think the other 20 some odd crews in the US wouldn't notice the move? Lol
Joe Zerilli and Tony Giacalone, or no Joe Zerilli and Tony Giacalone. They would have both gotten hit square in their foreheads if they EVER, ever, tried pulling a disrespectful, stupid, absolutely crazy, stunt like taking Hoffa out without first consulting the other top leaders whose borgatas would also be greatly affected by Hoffa's killing!
No way, No how!
Especially Zerilli and his top followers, who were staunch adherents to the rules of the road of Cosa Nostra.
There is a damn good reason why I use my pen name of "The Other Guy," as opposed to using my true name as my partner Lisa does. And its not because I'm a fraud, and hide behind a pen name because I'm some popcorn writer who's enamored with the mob. - You might wanna really think about that for a minute or two. Let's see if you can deduce the proper conclusion from what I've just mentioned.
My conclusion is that you want us to think you’re really connected when in fact you aren’t. Most all of your ‘expose’s’ are nothing but facts that can be found in 20 minutes on Google.
There is a damn good reason why I use my pen name of "The Other Guy," as opposed to using my true name as my partner Lisa does. And its not because I'm a fraud, and hide behind a pen name because I'm some popcorn writer who's enamored with the mob. - You might wanna really think about that for a minute or two. Let's see if you can deduce the proper conclusion from what I've just mentioned.
My conclusion is that you want us to think you’re really connected when in fact you aren’t. Most all of your ‘expose’s’ are nothing but facts that can be found in 20 minutes on Google.
Ben54...why don't you crawl back to your mafiawikia geekdom and see how much more you can steal off our page......lisa b
There is a damn good reason why I use my pen name of "The Other Guy," as opposed to using my true name as my partner Lisa does. And its not because I'm a fraud, and hide behind a pen name because I'm some popcorn writer who's enamored with the mob. - You might wanna really think about that for a minute or two. Let's see if you can deduce the proper conclusion from what I've just mentioned.
My conclusion is that you want us to think you’re really connected when in fact you aren’t. Most all of your ‘expose’s’ are nothing but facts that can be found in 20 minutes on Google.
Ben Enough. NYMafia is a very good poster who is very informative
I know his name...it's on one of the great pieces u did ....it (names) don't matter..he's a great researcher & dude..good looking fella 2....& no, I am not gay..just sayin"...
I know his name...it's on one of the great pieces u did ....it (names) don't matter..he's a great researcher & dude..good looking fella 2....& no, I am not gay..just sayin"...
I know his name...it's on one of the great pieces u did ....it (names) don't matter..he's a great researcher & dude..good looking fella 2....& no, I am not gay..just sayin"...
Cleveland, Philadelphia, Buffalo, Vincent Gigante, Paul Castellano, the list can go on of people and families who broke Commission rules that would cost them their lives, in Philadelphia and Buffalo cases yeah they did lose their lives, but their superiors feint ignorance.
Commission banned the use of explosives in the US, cause they could kill innocent bystanders that would bring heat on the familes. This was in connection to Cleveland and Pittsburgh war over Youngstown. Frank Narducci Sr, broke this rule in killing Phil Testa, of course Narducci paid with his life as he did not have permission to kill a boss from a family. Vincent Chin Gigante instructed Amuso and Casso to use an explosive in getting rid of Gotti Sr to make it seem the Sicilians were behind it. You cant kill a boss without permission from the Commission, yet John Gotti and company took a backdoor approach and made sure they never said they killed Castellano. Wait, instead of erasing what I said above, I'll keep it. There is the misunderstanding, I was not saying Hoffa hit was not sanctioned by the commission, I was saying many members gave lip service to the Commission if they can get away with it. That was all I was saying. Even New York bosses broke commission rules when it suited them and their crime family.
History is replete with events that took place that were not sanctioned, or even brought to the attention of the so-called Commission. Obviously! Dating back as early as 1930s Pittsburg, where the Volpe brothers got clipped by John Bazzano, who was later massacred for his indiscretion when he visited Brooklyn. Or Anastasia clipping the Mangano brothers in 1951. There are many incidents that we can point to.
But as I stated earlier, these particular incidents, if you pay attention, were mostly "intra-family" affairs. I seriously doubt any sane leader, or leaders, would pull such a stunt as far as Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance and presumed murder.
The Hoffa killing greatly affected many top borgatas throughout ALL of Cosa Nostra in the United States at that time. NO boss would ever wantonly incur the rathe of the entire Brotherhood with such a foolhardy and dangerous stunt.
It would be tantamount to spitting in the face of every other sitting leader (and their entire Family membership for that matter.) Ain't gonna happen!
And if it did, that boss, and whoever else conspired with him, would be quickly deposed and killed. Period!
Similar to Philadelphia after Bruno's murder. But quite frankly, The Hoffa incident would have been MUCH more of a Tornado than Bruno. Remember that Bruno only affected Philly. Hoffa was national in scope.
HIs killing had the potential to greatly destabilize the finances and earnings of many bosses, even though Hoffa was already technically out of office at the time. Their safety as well.
I'm not gonna proclaim to be an expert on the Hoffa situation. But to quote the Gambino underboss Neil Dellacroce (speaking generally of alot of people) " he doesn't understand Cosa Nostra". The Hoffa hit effected to many people for ANY Family to just decide they were gonna kill him. All due respect to Detroit (I respect the Organization) but if Albert Anastasia and John Gotti had to make up stories and alibis when they killed there Bosses, what makes you think, Detroit had the balls to whack Hoffa, without approval. The mob is ultimately about money and getting the most of a deal. Hoffa "going", had implications on the mob as a whole and had to be more beneficial then keeping him around.
I'll use this analogy, of course I know its not about Bonanno but I use this to explain Cosa Nostra politics. I often hear people who claim to understand Cosa Nostra make the statement "I don't know how he survived?". Its simple, because it was a powerplay and not the narrative we know. Do you really think someone could put a hit on 4 or 5 Bosses and Survive? Absolutely NOT. It was a powerplay to remove someone who stood in there way and it benefited enough people to play along. I use a theory called "Pattern Analysis". If you pay attention to the patterns of Cosa Nostra, you find the same reoccurring results and hardly any variations (this theory applies to everything). Theory: If you do this (cause), then one of these two or three thing are gonna happen (effect).
Long story short, with that being said, Hoffa was hit, it was approved by multiple Families, and I'd go a step further, moreso then Detroit acting alone, if they tried to protect Hoffa (theoretically speaking) and the order came down from New York, he would go! Period. Nobody (back in the day at least) os bigger than the Commission.
I'm not gonna proclaim to be an expert on the Hoffa situation. But to quote the Gambino underboss Neil Dellacroce (speaking generally of alot of people) " he doesn't understand Cosa Nostra". The Hoffa hit effected to many people for ANY Family to just decide they were gonna kill him. All due respect to Detroit (I respect the Organization) but if Albert Anastasia and John Gotti had to make up stories and alibis when they killed there Bosses, what makes you think, Detroit had the balls to whack Hoffa, without approval. The mob is ultimately about money and getting the most of a deal. Hoffa "going", had implications on the mob as a whole and had to be more beneficial then keeping him around.
I'll use this analogy, of course I know its not about Bonanno but I use this to explain Cosa Nostra politics. I often hear people who claim to understand Cosa Nostra make the statement "I don't know how he survived?". Its simple, because it was a powerplay and not the narrative we know. Do you really think someone could put a hit on 4 or 5 Bosses and Survive? Absolutely NOT. It was a powerplay to remove someone who stood in there way and it benefited enough people to play along. I use a theory called "Pattern Analysis". If you pay attention to the patterns of Cosa Nostra, you find the same reoccurring results and hardly any variations (this theory applies to everything). Theory: If you do this (cause), then one of these two or three thing are gonna happen (effect).
Long story short, with that being said, Hoffa was hit, it was approved by multiple Families, and I'd go a step further, moreso then Detroit acting alone, if they tried to protect Hoffa (theoretically speaking) and the order came down from New York, he would go! Period. Nobody (back in the day at least) os bigger than the Commission.
----- Bingo!!....... excellent analysis Don Pep. You are 1000% correct IMO. Not only about this Hoffa issue that we are debating, but the 1960s situation with Joe Bonanno that led to his eventual expulsion from Cosa Nostra by alleging the "phony" allegation that he "planned" to whack out the Commission bosses Carlo Gambino and Tommy Lucchese.
It NEVER HAPPENED! Bonanno was very powerful at the time. They also (obviously) disliked him because he was a bit "heady," and they "created" the false narrative that he plotted their demise. It gained traction, and nobody was gonna challenge their assessment of the situation.
Over the last 50+ years this false Bonanno plot has snowballed to the point that its become gospel. But its bullshit!
Carl and Tommy used it to split the loyalty of his family after he put a bad taste in the rank and files mouth with his attempted ascension of his idiot son Bill as the new consigliere. And it grew from there. It was a series of slights and overreaching moves by Bonanno that made his contemporaries uncomfortable with his continued leadership. And Carlo the Fox, and his in-law through marriage Tommy Brown took advantage of the moment to unseat him.
Its I've studied this for years, and simply put, you Don't walk away from certain things. Hoffa was a problem, we all seen the Irishman. He couldn't be reasoned with and didn't see the writing on the wall. "He's gotta go" and everybody who was supposed to be in on it was obviously in agreeance. All you have to do is figure out who benefited the most and how after he was gone, and there's your answer. Same thing in Bonannos case, in the 70s you had the French Connection (the Luccheses) and the Cherry Hill Gambinos take over become the leaders in Narcotics. The little union and garment interest the Bonannos hadwent to who? Lucchese and Gambinos.
So the question is, who (mainly) controlled the Teamster "puppet" after Hoffa was gone??? And thats your possible answer.
Where is the body??? Probably in Detroit. Unless we are mistaken too where he was whacked.
At the National Level the main players in the teamsters in the late 70s and 1980s were the Genovese, Kansas City and Chicago Families... Detroit and the Luccese family were big players at the national Level up until the 60s but that power had started fading somewhat w the removal of Hoffa out of the presidency and the Lucchese giving up Local 282 and other locals to the Gambino Family...BUT when Cleveland wanted Jackie Presser to take control of the International in the early 1980s, they went to Nick Civella first, then to Joey Auippa and Jackie Cerone and finally to 116th St in East Harlem and Tony Salerno
To kill him in Detroit, and transport the dead body is a HUGE risk, especially for a family like Detroit, which appears to always have crossed their T's
Make's no sense to do that.
However, if and IF Detroit did the set up, and N.J. did the actual killing maybe they did something foolish like that?
Either HOFFA is in those drums or they will officially never find him.
This guy has spent a life time trying to find HOFFA this is it.
This 411 is coming from the sons of guys on the ground so the sources are as legit as one can get.
That's why i am saying once they open these drums, whether he is them or not, this is the end of the road for this.
The hit was approved By Chicago and the Genovese Family.....Billy Giacalone, Rafeal Quassarano and Tony Palazzolo picked him up and Tony Pal shot Hoffa in the face...Thats the most plausible theory and is what Tony Zerelli was told by Tony Giacalone...and I dont take much stock that they didnt find the body..It still could have been there they could have missed it, just like when the 3 capos were killed and they only found sonny red cause his arm was sticking out and they missed the other 2 bodies until 25 years later when Joe Massino flipped.....
