California Families Controversy???

So recently I've seen where Sammy the Bull Gravano said there was no Family out there, he never heard that it was and was under the impression it was a open state. Michael Franzese, has said "they were more of a crew".... I have seen some interviews from the grandson of Jack Dragna who provided some clarification but only knew information about the Dragna Era. Does anybody have an understanding of the west coast mob and know of there true power and strength???

Read my exposes on the San Jose and San Francisco Families. I plan to do an LA expose down the road.

If you visit our TNYM website and click "Friends of Ours" and scroll down you'll see them ok

They were indeed full and recognized families out there. Smaller than NYC, but legit borgatas

I think California has always been underrated, but they were working with the jewish gangsters.

Sinatra was out there, everyone knows who he was with. He alone was a million dollar racket lol Dean Martin included IMO

This supposed meeting between Jimmy Fratianno and Gravano never happened. Sinatra played at the Westchester Premier Theatre in September 1976, and that's when Fratianno joined Sinatra backstage for the famous photo with Carlo Gambino and others. Gambino died about three weeks later, on October 15. Gravano testified that when he was made Paul Castellano was the boss. Gravano also said that Aniello Dellacroce was at his making ceremony, but Dellacroce was in Riker's Island when Fratianno came to New York, and was still in jail when Gambino died. So when Fratianno came to New York, Gravano wasn't even a made member. Why would Fratianno violate protocol for a guy who wasn't even made? Plus Fratianno was a stickler for protocol. So this supposed confrontation between Gravano and Fratianno couldn't have happened. My guess is that Gravano lied to get more subscribers.

Great breakdown, thanks.

It's a shame because I've been enjoy Gravano's videos. I can take him puffing up his importance and making himself look smart, but now he's just making up stories.

Good to see you post faithful 1. Jimmy the weasle was indeed a strickler for protocols. Gravano had no dealings with the California families. Dellacroce did have dealing with Los Angeles and San Jose, nothing on San Francisco. Tommy Gambino had strong connections to Los Angeles, and the New Jersey Gambinos also did. Nino Gaggi had connections to San Francisco. Paul Castellano had met with Jimmy Lanza of San Francisco as acting boss, but have not come across anything when Paul was official boss.

With this clarification from Giacomo_Vacari, it presents a question.
Because although I presented the original question in a certain fashion, I am not totally unfamiliar with the groups in California, it makes me wonder.
Besides gaining subscribers, why would Gravano make up a story like that???
If the Gambinos (specifically) had association to California, surely he must've known of that territory. Now it could be that it's correct, he wasn't made at the time (maybe he genuinely didn't known), it also could've been his age playing tricks and he mixed up the times (he did have trouble with remembering Greg DePalma, who wasn't some obscure guy) or maybe something did actually happen, and he harbors a slight grudge. It was a great story m, but why lie???
Same thing with Franzese, who lived in California and called them a "crew". Maybe its a New York thing, and we see it play out, how the lack of respect for small families is true.

They were full fledged families, but compared to New York City, members from that state often referred to them as crews, but they never meet every member in those families. I know one New York member who was an informant referred to Los Angeles as a faction, but also kept switching it up with faction and family, it is just how they view things. Gravano never had dealings with California families. He should have know a bit more, but just because he is in the same family as other crews, does not mean he knows what is happening there unless ome of his crew visited the state and interacted with one of the families, then he would know. That is just how it is with East Coast and West Coast. The New York families that had the most knowledge of the California families are Colombo, Bonanno, and Genovese. Colombo and Bonanno had members in those cities and were kept somewhat of abreast of the happenings.

The California based families existed in structure until the mid to late 1980s. After that they were dismantled by LE, and just kind of faded away because of attrition and lack of leadership and induction of new blood for manpower.

For the next several decades there existed a few made guys here and there who somewhat operated. The NYC families also had guys out there as well who continued to fuck around.

But let's face it, California is a different world. Yuppies, Puppies, and clear heads who don't understand, let alone adhere to mafia "doctrines." Hell, nowadays half the young Italian guys in NYC don't adhere to mafia doctrines. And they grow up right in the midst of it.

Plus there is a much, much smaller Italian-American population on the west coast. No recruitment pool.

The world has changed. The Jack Dragnas aren't around anymore

In the photo of the Commission 1963, it indicates Licata in Los Angeles?? Any relation to Scoops Licata in New Jersey?

None whatsoever. Licata is a fairly common Italian surname

The LA family that was the more powerful was know as the Mickey Mouse Mafia and had at least almost 50 made men at its peak while the Lanzas in Frisco and the Cerreto in SJ had almost 30 made men. There was never a close relationship with the 5 families and them went to the Outfit fo settle the disputes. I doubt Gravano or even Gotti ever had meeting with California made men because was basily done in 1986.

I think Gravano could have made it up.knowing how many guys in.that life that
Are still around that could possibly dispute it?
Plus he choose a CI like Frattiano who has been.gone since 1993 to.be
A focal point of the story. So its like in Sammys point of view,
" this is a tale of 2 guys turned government informants....1 is still alive to tell the
Tale..."

I think Gravano could have made it up.knowing how many guys in.that life that
Are still around that could possibly dispute it?
Plus he choose a CI like Frattiano who has been.gone since 1993 to.be
A focal point of the story. So its like in Sammys point of view,
" this is a tale of 2 guys turned government informants....1 is still alive to tell the
Tale..."

Unlikely. Nick licata was originally from Detroit right?

Wasnt.it documented that Paul Castellano really didnt associate
With low level made men? Wasnt that a reason why he killed in the
1st place cause the perception was he was he was out of touch
With "real gangsters" and thought he was too.good to be bothered
With them?

Sammy's story was bullshit and lies. Why would Frattiano who would have been made like 30 years by that point want to talk with Sammy who would've only been made a few months to a year. Even then I highly doubt Frattiano would not know how to introduce himself. Frattiano had a reputation for being very strict when it came to protocol.

DiLeonardo and some other New York figures met with LA Boss Pete Milano during the 90s. In 1997 the LA mob killed Herbet Blitzstein who was a former member of the Hole in the Wall gang. The LA mob was around till the late 90s, early 2000s. There are still some retired old guys living but the family was deemed inactive/defunct in 2003.

I remember reading in many articles that the Bonannos had oversight over San Jose and San Francisco, alongside having a West Coast (spread evenly between AZ and CA) crew of 20 wiseguys.
At some point, Bonanno felt DeSimone wasn't doing enough to expand the Mickey Mouse mob, and sought to replace him with his son and 40 additional wiseguys. That and his plot to kill Lucchese, Gambino and Magaddino is what led to the rigmarole in the 1960s.