Carmine Persico in 79-81 on the streets as Boss

Carmine Persico got released in 1979; It's common knowledge that Tom DiBella was Acting Boss or Official Boss while Persico he was in jail (Different topic though).

How was Persico as Boss on the streets during that 2-3 year period in 79-81...??????????

Was he meeting with other bosses and what did Castellano; Corallo; Salerno/Gigante feel about him?

I saw a picture yesturday with Carmine and Allie Boy (His son) on a mobster documentary. That's the 1st time I've ever seen them together as father and son. It had to be in that 1979-1981 time frame.

Have you got the picture by any chance?

Don’t know much about how others thought about him but the Snake knew every racket very very well and had his hands in ever one of them .

He was in the joint a good amount of time and most guys would fade lose rackets or give up percentages of rackets Carmine rose in power and strength .

So he must of had a grip on everything he had and the backing of powerful guys to do this and for a long fucken time. But you don’t do this without making enemies but he had to many strong guys by that time to get touched.

There is also the fact that he came up with ever powerful boss and knew all the secrets to every hit and not just little ones some of the biggest in history.

He was tight with a few heavy killers and with some of strongest skippers in five families and more and when I say more he had deep connections with the north and Midwest that’s never talked about, look where and who Allie hs brother was tight with not just in NY .

There is so much that the guys from his time took to the grave unlike today where everyone knows everything.....

Not sure but think its AB

Reading over the Scarpa files from that time I get the feeling Persico hit the ground running.

He was putting hits on guys, consolidating power by placing those closest to him in all the top positions, meeting with other bosses and requesting Commission meetings. He was trying to make new members, but the Commission only allowed a few because they thought the Colombos were taking in too many young and inexperienced members.

Not sure what the other bosses felt about him, but Persico beefed Castellano and Salerno about them having Manhattan concrete to themselves. He had his hooks in his own concrete company and wanted a piece of the action. They kept him out until they set up the concrete club for the four bosses later on.

It’s common knowledge that concrete contracts over $2m went to the concrete club controlled by the Commission, but I just recently read in “The Good Guys” by FBI agent Jules Bonavolonta that contracts under $2m went to another club controlled by the Colombo family at this time.

That is true and the Persico’s still have there hooks in one ....but I didn’t say that , a concrete racket.

You know none of the bosses liked each other , they are great White’s in a goldfish pond now a couple used each other but that’s it like Chin and Luke’s they used each other.

Yeah, that looks like CP's brother, not son.

Carmine and brother Allie in one and Carmine Teddy sr and Allie other.

Teddy was not built for the life but stayed in for blood .

Thanks DP great photos. Carmine has to be up there in top 5 mob powers. From valachi to present when he died he was relevant. Guy was everywhere and his people still in power now in 2020

@Serpiente

When you say he came up with every powerful boss; Could you elaborate?? I know he was close with Joe Colombo; I don't know if he was behind his hit but it's still a theory out there...

@Streetbossliborio

I don't have the picture with him and Little Allie Boy. I saw him on a mobster documentary a few nights ago with Little Allie Boy and a Female standing side by side. Carmine had to be in his late 40's.... The 1979-1981 time frame where he was out on the streets as boss.


@MightyDR

Never knew Persico was beefing with Castellano and Salerno over the concrete rackets; That's interesting.

Yea.... Most of the bosses didn't like eachother but wasn't Salerno and Corallo close???

Also Persico was close with Carmine Galante.

dibella was the official boss. hes the guys who inducted abunch of colombos guys in the 70tys. i dont even think theres any turncoat who said carmine inducted in guys well he was boss cause he was only on the street for a few years like 2 and i think the books were closed. michael franzese and scarpa jr talked about there induction and dibella being the boss no mention of carmine. i think the guy was content with stepping down he was up there in age. he buddy carlo gambino died. bosses were going to jail funzi tieri few got killed

What I mean is his age and where he came up Red Hook and that area was thick with powerful guys and as he rose in power he was doing stuff with guys that became leaders and acting bosses and bosses.


Now you have to remember that once you become boss you are competing with all the other bosses because every dollar you make indirectly comes out of another bosses pocket . Not counting what the families shared together.

I don’t mean he was best friends with them . Although Casso and Amuso were younger but they would be up the farm with there blood and Carmine blood . There are a lot of these guy children that were dating and married other guys in the life also and Carmine family did just that .

Many powerful guys were Carmine age and ran with him and also the favors he did with hits they all could of buried each other if they wanted.

Yeah don’t think he was a puppet boss but something was up the way it all went down....unless he was that type personality that mob guys are usually not “. and just decided to ride off into the sunset.

But you are right nobody says he was a puppet but it’s unusual for a guy ten years in joint walks out right into the biggest position in his field.

My bad, I was not sure, I found others but sometimes cannot tell who is brother and who is Son.

Let me know if anyone wants to see the others I found for id

Looks to me like DiBella was acting boss for Persico. Franzese, Cantelupo, Bonavolonta and Fratianno all said he was acting boss. I think Scarpa may have said Persico only became official boss in 1980, but who knows what angle he was working.

https://www.nytimes.com/1977/06/05/...es-after-failure-of-overthrow-chief.html
I think this article is pretty interesting. Says that DiBella is official boss, but that the Persicos are the most powerful faction and DiBella massively favours them.

He could of been a front and for stability reasons the family was saying he was boss because Carmine was in prison and that family always had a lot of strife , so most likely he was a front because he quietly bounced as soon as Carmine got out there was zero news about it and as we see not many wanted the details to be known.

The more interesting thing to me is Colombo’s hit . The guy was black to make it look like Joey G did the hit . Now if a guy is going to risk certain death by the LCN Gallo would of been expecting the rains of the family .

But no ! he just carried on day by day activities living like a half ass gangster movie star .

That hit to me is the most puzzling if the bosses were behind it and if they asked Gallo to do it then he would of been rewarded with the rains of the family .

But he wasn’t he was hunted . The black guy family must of been held at gun point or given or promised a shit ton and of course in LCN fashion he was quickly dispatched ending any chance at truth.

Personally I think it was set up by all the families to get rid of Colombo and his mouth and they used the Gallo story as the perfect alibi killing the shooter .

Persico’s were definitely in on it of course because who was Carmine grave enemies because of what went down years before with Gallo brothers and the Westside reaching out to take in the remaining brothers was them saying we had a part in Colombo’s hit and the frame up of Joey so the story had a end for Feds.

You give the Feds a ending that makes sense and they have no other proof they will run with it.

Imagine how many street guys thought Persico was a little piss ant, I'll squash him like a grape, and then came to regret it !!

Many many little guys took out big mouths!!!

That’s why they called him “The Snake”

He fucked a lot of people and surrounded himself with people better than he could ever be at a many different things, resulting in a powerful position.

A classic rule many never had the smarts to follow.

Fully agree with everything above Serp. This was persicos plot and the rest is history. Gallo didn’t have nothin to do with it imo. And it was Persico getting rid of all his enemies in one go and taking the family forever as he was destined to do. The balls he had was unreal at such a young age. Best master stroke move of his career. Idiots like us still today talk about gallo doing it, as if it weren’t “the snakes” handiwork. Also gave the feds a story, potentially gave the commission a pasty in gallo (if they weren’t in on it) and became the hero who hunted gallo down for Colombos honour then took the reins when he come out of pen

perisco and his lawyer mari in the last few years were saying in there appeal for parole carmine was not the official boss and had no vote on the commission for carmine galantes murder. they were trying to get out like the luchese consig christy tic who became consig in 1981

@MightyDr and @Pmac

I believe you two are right; Tom DiBella wasn't a puppet... His situation is interesting though; He was old with the position as Boss with a Underboss (Persico) in jail who was in line to become boss..... Interesting situation there.....

@Serpiente

Who were some of the guys he was close with who became Acting boss or Boss???

@Streetbossliborio

Are you saying that Persico had something to do with the Colombo hit??? He had the most to gain; but weren't they close friends????? There's a picture out there with them together

I know Casso and his wife and son would be up the farm on many occasions . At first they would practice shooting and then the wife’s got close so it became more of a family getaway.

I also know that there were several helicopters that would come from the city to the farm often and that’s when Lil Allie was close with Michael Franzese and it was not so much as best buds Allie was watching him $$$ another guy that would bring his helicopter John S------- .

Allie and Michael P were the snobby type and I don’t think that the friendship with MF was anything but keeping a eye. Also they did not like the Colombo boys very jealous when his dad was boss but they acted like they were buds until the old man was shot then they push them aside.

Michael P being much more social then brother Allie, Lil Allie was like his dad.

Michael was making huge drops !

Carmine would have a couple RR up there and every other car , the boys got new two door Lincoln continental‘s when they were 17 .

During peace time up at farm and when Carmine was not incarcerated there were loads of wiseguys coming and going . The property went from a house and a barn to five houses and three barns quick .

They actually moved a entire graveyard off the property to allow Carmine to expand his river rock rancher to 80 feet long and add a huge great room there were also movIe and tv stars up there and at all the party’s Uma Thurman was a regular and many more
All the men in the blood family have houses on the compound and so does susie .

The barns were stocked with jeeps snow machines quads three wheelers just anything you can imagine and one was for horses also Carmine liked the horses and when he went away they slowly got rid of them.
.
Carmine liked boxing and Muhammad Ali believe it or not and had a painting of him in the great room autographed .

They had big big party’s up there and many celebrities sports figures just a Who’s Who of people would hang around.
Ive said enough.....

Very interesting & thought provoking Serp..Thanx!

One day I will explain more and how I know in detail what goes on up state but to dangerous right now .

But when it does happen I’ve got some stories back to 74 up there and Brooklyn but I will never say anything about the crime family but this other stuff yea.

Just check out the Persico compound , pretty nice. Many yrs ago I spent couple of years in Albany Ny. The winters were brutal. All those times driving up interstate 87 .to Albany .

Michael around five years ago when he knew he was going away he made it so it can make money if need be , but you got to know someone to use the property foe weddings ect. only very select group gets to use it the way Michael intended and his finance is much better then expected while he is away.

But of course most people with questionable income keep everything just above bankruptcy to keep the wolves away !

Can IGoogle map this shit ?? just give me a town..etc..road etc..would love 2 explore even from satellite view....help Serp..

OR Flamingo....I 2 know u been around also....

By the way Flamingo....I'm not on here as much as I used 2 b.. but I enjoy ur informative posts...

Not exactly sure if this is it but this is what I found.
https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/mob-boss-carmine-persicos-house/view/google/

Wow ..Thank u Mikey 4 the quick response & visual aid...it sure looks like where Serp said it would be..& he would know...thanx dude..VERY INTERESTING..

Hood check your PM

Never seen that farm from the satellite before.

Anyway the two houses at front one is Carmine’s the river rock rancher the other one was a big barn remodels in the 70’s thelower floor is hidden garage doors and that where carman had his Rolls-Royce is and Joyce had her Chevy Caprice convertible that she loved the other half is bar and card rooms . The top floor is where the care taker of the property lives.

The big fountains out front between the two was built by an old Sicilian bricklayer Larry or Lawrence Carmine‘s brother had it built for Carmine for when he came out of the joint in 1980 it’s the first thing he’s seen when he rolled in the driveway .

I spent a few winter and summer days up there driving the boys to meet friends I remember some good Italian restaurants there and I spent many of hours at the bar waiting and eating. The guys liked to go to one spot then disappear out the back door to another three hours later in the car back to the farm.

Boring day at work. Million dollar question . Carmine persico knows the mafia rules like he was there when they really wrote them in the 50tys id say there golden era and 60tys. When did he appoint the next boss like carlo gambino on his death bed saying pauls next or tony ducks vic amuso. I dont think chin left a appointee when he died in prison either maybe its better to leave it up to the capos in the family. But i wonder if carmine left it to the family or stepped down and threw it to andy russo

Appreciate it Hood. Thank you

All great stuff Serp. Thank you

I asked someone that should know twice .... and twice I got the blank stare .

Strange , no pools.

I think its a thing up there.... my uncles place had no pool either.
I think they always thought of them as dangerous and swimming was a big lake or beach event.
Never had swimming pools.

Strange.

No problem hood. I’m glad I could find it.

If you are talking about a pool on Carmine’s compound there is a Olympic size pool with an outdoor kitchen bar sliding board diving boards also a pond east of that kinda behind Lil Allie boy old house not to be confused with Allie boys house.

You guys may be looking at wrong spot ....I don’t know what u are looking at .

Oh, nice.

Livin Large.

Must be wrong area we are viewing than

quick check michael persico only has 10 months left on his sentence. says hes in allenwood low so i guessing in a month or 2 he'll be at that work release in brooklyn at one of his familys businesses. that seemed quick thought he got 4 5yrs. maybe they shaved off some time with trumps new first time offender reform thing. bet the feds put up a stink about him working at his limo place which they said was like a colombo hangout

also think he is made or atleast rite before he started the bid. no way the old bosses and carmines friends let him go to prison and get picked on by other made guys from other family almost disrespectfull if they didnt all the money and work he did for the colombo family and i mean like job work not hits. guys like a money making machine

I’ve been telling you for years he is taken care of and yes very well protected and he has plenty of business in other city’s in NY to keep him busy while being watched on release.

What i mean say theres 6made guys and a 20 associates from all different families at any given federal prison in the northeast theres noway michael would be left with the low level associates and not sitting at the made guy table or even if they were having a pow wow about who killes Frank cali. Michael persico is a guy carli gambino envisioned in the future of the mafia a white collar criminal in there organization. Even thou his lawyers denie it in all the papers and court hearings that guy probaly got inducted in his lawyers office bathroom well on house arrest by someone in the colombo family and no other family is gonna stop his name hes been proven to there family for 40yrs

Read between the lines .... he is protected

Well protected my guess.

its weird the government went almost out there way to say michael was a high ranking associate. they just did the same thing to chin son vincent esposito who obviously is a made guy. he had to genovese soldiers go shakedown a few union guys he was caught with 4 million the feds said was the genovese slush fund and he was caught with lists of dead members and there replacements for induction into the genovese family. and it said these guys either died or were inducted after chin died so whys his son have these lists. cause hes either a capo or higher. but the gov never came out abd said hes a made guy. i found that strange

I don’t know how to explain why but if it’s not done with other guys then nobody can say he got made with me if the only people that know are the top three or four in the family then LE is just one step behind instead of even.

I will say this I’ve been saying for years and years that the families have to use lie detectors and they have to strip and get hit with a wand before any high level shit is talked about.

You can bet the Westside and the Colombo’s are doing it and I would not doubt that since guys are not doing hits to make there worth I will bet that there are guys in the family that are watching other guys and I don’t mean lightly.

I am saying there is a system in place to stop the rats since there are no killings to speak of and if you are going to meetings and you are getting tested and wanted no way are these guys wearing a wire like they used to and if you lie detector comes up a little off you are being followed and more to make sure you are not doing anything you should not .

The guys that are not good at rackets that used to be used for hits are now being used as eyes or something like it .

It’s the only way .

Because if The guy brings up something in a conversation on the street when he knows he’s only allowed to talk about it at a meeting after procedures like I explained that a red flag goes up .

Nobody is aloud to share important info that can get them jammed up without that meeting and protocol to protect everyone .


Look at Barney nobody talks to him nobody sees him nobody knows nothing and Feds cannot gethim on wire tap and nobody has rated on him .

They have changed up how they operate and only the lower guys are getting caught on wire .

They had todo something to combat what was going on and it’s totally possible I am off but they definitely have something in place.

heres the thing ive been trying to say serp. say theres some crazy bank robber associate of the luchese family from yonkers and hes in the same prison as michael persico who the gov says is only a high ranking associate, that bank robber guy and mike get in a disagreement whether the sky is blue and it turns into a fight maybe if that luchese associate was told beforehand by one of his familys guys michael a made guy with the colombos it probaly would never had happend. it doesnt matter who his dad or brother is. but if hes a made guy surposely amongst of the whites and made guys in prison there all 1 team so no one would slap him around or try to extort him. sounds like hes in a soft prison anyway i think steve the riffleman flemmi is there to. and if hes paying for protection when maybe he was in a higher level prison that will come back to him on the street, who knows maybe what i read about him is true hes just a business man but yaeh right he took advantage of his dads and brother and cousins positon to advance him in the real world so more power to him just come and agree with me serp you think hes a made guy if they didnt make him there dumb and they cant keep it secret from the other familys whats the point of inducting him

another snow storm gonna walk to the bars and watch the mcgregor fight at 10

Say he was not made before he went away and just a associate on record. I don’t think anyone in the family would take that chance.
If he was not made he was just before.

But nobody needs to know because if he was pushed up on word would get to that guys boss quickly that it’s hands off or that he was made but the boss of the other family would not have to explain to his soldiers.....only he is to be left alone.

But just saying my guess he been made a long time ago .....just a guess

I am in South Jersey on the beach we have rain !

But love walking to Maynard’s Tavern on snow days and nights nothing better.


Pmac never sweat the small shit .....keep your fucken head up you are good and not alone .

Very nice summation & culmination Serp...only u can put it so many words...I feel that u r our pizzaboy of 2 day...luv it man!...

Pizza is here and much more knowledgeable on NY I just grew up ona block with Scarf and as far as the Colombo ‘s that connection is blood .

No I am not blood with Colombo my connection is blood back to the early 60’s.

I agree with Serp... I mean, Michael doesn’t need a button, right? Like who’s gonna fuck with a Persico? His dad was boss and one of his brothers is likely the new boss... maybe Allie real boss and Teddy as street boss.

Like, if Barney Bellomo’s brother gets locked up (if he has one) you think anyone from another family would try giving him a hard time in prison?

It doesn’t matter if Michael has any stripes to me, because he would obviously have a whole army behind him based off of his name alone. He can easily make one phone call to his brothers and have the situation handled. Now if the Persicos and their allies ever lost power then obviously it’s a different story.

I understand.

In jail\prison though yes you can be protected and what not but also you do at some point need and have to be a man on your own also. My guess, and just a guess is people probably know his family connections so that def helps but also if you are just a normal regular person and don't try and pose as super tough but be a man keep out of stuff that isn't your business and keep out of debt that alone goes a long way. Probably is different with Mob guys so I dont know.