about small families

am i the only one who notice that most of the people love reading, watching anything that have to do with the smaller mob families ?
let's take an example : the sopranos
the real life trafficante family (their past of course)
the real life philly mob (tons of news and articles about them! even til today !!! ) and also the rizzuto's
i just wanted to point that out
because that's really interesting...
in the 40s till the -70s
the small families outside on NY practically ruled the mob (trafficante, buffalo, philly, outfit, marcello)
which basically means the quality is sometimes a lot better then quantity right ?

There are bosses that are at least in my mind share numerous characteristics and are easy to group together. These being Carlos Marcello, Santo Trafficante, Angelo Bruno, Russell Bufalino, Simone DeCavalcante, Raymond Patriarca, John LaRocca, Nicholas Civella, Anthony Giordano and Frank Balistrieri. Of course there are differences between these guys but what they had in common I think is far greater: heads of small families for lengthy, yet relatively peaceful, periods of time. This is in contrast to the New York families who often had a violent change of leadership and periods of violence in the same era. So while the intrigue and violence are interesting in the New York families, I think it's just as interesting that these other guys managed to have long runs controlling their own, albeit small, empires.

Same mafia, but also different, ya know?

Perhaps that's what makes these families interesting?

yeah 100%
also what do you think about the quality over quantity thing ?

Simply put it was easier to keep the grip on a smaller area/city with almost no competition than having to knock shoulders with other 4 crime families in one of the world’s largest cities. Shaking down “cow towns” along the rust belt and the Midwest wasn’t that much of a task for them.

Not to mention that the whole small town America vibe made local mafiosi the top dogs right off the bat.
Smaller/rural centers don’t get the same scrutiny larger cities and metropolitan areas get. Public officials are less likely to get on the feds’ radar, thus they’re easier to grease. Omertà is more stable when literally everyone can trace your family tree and everybody knows everyone.

In NYC (or other large cities such as Chicago) they had/have to navigate through a much more crowded underworld and constantly changing politics and demographics.

The ethnic and cultural canvas of places like Youngstown and Upstate NY, eastern PA, etc... haven’t changed that much in the last 50 years.

Ironically, what brought down many of these smaller families was their involvement in larger, nation-wide rackets with bigger coastal families (Unions, Vegas,...). If they’d have kept it low key and local, chances were they’d still be around today.
All this plus the fact that the bosses run these families as their own private clubs: very little room was given to other up-and-coming guys so you had no new blood coming up. Small families were run like close-knit kingdoms while larger ones were run like proper governments.

true !
thanks !

LuanKuci, not really. There was more money for them to join in with a big family such as the Bonanno or Colombo crime family. Especially when it came to interstate unions, or global businesses. Chicago hurt the families west of their city with the yearly tribute they demanded. Keep in mind many of the mobsters knew that life well and did not want their kids to join, plus over the decades there have been better job opportunities for those of Italian descendants in legit business and careers.
When talking about the quality over the quantity, the larger families had a larger pool to pick from and they did have skilled members despite that pool shrinking. The smaller families did not have that pool, hence why it was not uncommon for made members and associates to transfer from New York to a smaller family.

At some point even after the books was re-opened many bosses prefer to dont made new guys. After the war with Greene the Cleveland boss had the permission of Tony Salerno to made even 10 members in one ceremony but he didnt.
In some cases because yes there are few people or the mobsters sons dont follow their father in the mob but even because prefer to have their trusted men.
So in the early 1990s some of them (Tampa,Milwaukee,st luois,bufalinos ecc) was dead.

I love reading and learning about the smaller families. But I think part of their demise, for example, was large in part to what happened with guys like Scalish, they stopped making guys into the family. I think the same is holding true with New England IMO. Because Providence is all but gone. Theres alot of opinion on that but what seems to be clear is that during the last 20 years they havent been rebuilding the ranks in Prov. Boston is a different argument. The smaller families were great, but flashes in the pan.

I think that in patriarcas after ray jr all the bosses come from Boston and that is the reason why Providence is almost done.

This board thinks a family with 15-20 members with 2 crews is dead, I disagree. In a small family like that most people are related and you probably have associates that's respected the same as a made man. People called Philly dead in the early 2000's and ligambi and the guys was earning under the radar

You only need a big family during war time

I think Licavoli made a handful in 1976 with permission
From the Genovese

Tony Liberatore
John Calandra
Allie Calabrese.
Tommy Sinito.

Im.sure Eugene Ciasullo and Butchie Cisternino.
Were approached but declined
Maybe Phil Christopher was considered too.

Joe Iaccobaci and Russell Pappalardo were made too
But it may have been later

Yes Boston has had the recent string of bosses. But if the tables were turned I think Matty G would have a lot more guys around Prov. Because I think he holds more weight with guys outside of New England than the Dinunzios.

I’ve never been to western Pa or some of the other places you’re referring to but you couldn’t be more wrong when it comes to northeast pa. 50 years ago it was one of the wealthiest areas on the east coast with incredible economic growth and was 80-90% white. When my father was in high school there was 5 blacks in his graduating class in 1980. Shit, even when I graduated in 1999 there was only 10-12. Subsidized housing in that area was practically non-existent until probably 75-77.

Fast forward to now and my 12 year old is 1 of 2 white kids in her class of 15 or so. My 14yr sticks out like a sore thumb in her team picture for basketball because it’s her and 1 biracial girl. Wilkes barre, Scranton, Pittston, Hazleton and many other towns all the way through upstate New York to damn near Canada are like this now. The Poconos was one of the premier vacation places for wealthy New Yorkers and others to visit from 1950 thru 1980 or so. From the 80s until a few years ago when Denaples got Mt Airy(Bufalino made that happen from his grave, trust me) it was a slum filled with minorities from NYC, NJ and Philly using it as a crash pad to sell drugs all over NEPA. There was almost no violent crime in NEPA from 50-70, now the murder rate rivals all the big cities.

As far as cultural, ethnic and economic change over the last 50 years goes NEPA couldn’t have changed more. That area is the complete opposite of what it was 50 years ago and it isn’t getting any better.

Philly is different and some mob experts said that its dead because the family was always at war from 1980 to 1999 and Ligambi rebuilt it.
While in Pennsylvania crime state report the LaRocca family was listed 23 made men and Pittston about 20.
Now the remaining made men continue to had rackets like the Iannelli son that was busted for gambling but with no boss and no hierarchy the family is in fact dead.

Not every smaller city lacked OC competition. St. Louis, for example, had three distinct organized crime families, 2 of which were not LCN. Tony Giordano ran the St Louis LCN family but had to compete with Buster "Buster" Wortman (the East Side gang) and Jimmy "Horseshoe Jimmy" Michaels (the Syrian - Lebanese gang). Wortman's East Side gang was a largely non Italian crew supported by Chicago and Michael's crew was a long time local crew of multiple nationalities. They were able to keep the peace for many years, but disputes over union control ultimately brought an end to all 3 gangs.

Not to long ago, buffalo didn't have an hierarchy either, people said Detroit was also dead, I think theirs a conspiracy going on in some of these cities to hide thier local mafia

The Outfit was/is not a small family. They are one of the biggest LCN juggernauts there ever was

Maggidino was Commission member, maybe he should have an asterisk beside Buffalo, if they appear overly influential. Were any other smaller family ‘Dons’ Commission members, (ie. Trafficante or Marcello)?

Slightly OT, but Chicago is easily the most fascinating LCN family of all time. They’ve had ONE single lone made member flip & testify (Scarpelli never got his chance. It’s been rumoured that Jimmy Boy Cozzo was the infamous C1 informant, but never proven, and I’m not sure he was made). That is absolutely unfathomable. It’s incredible & difficult to wrap one’s head around. And this is CHICAGO we’re talking about here, murica’s only other mega-metro. This ain’t Boston, or St Louis, Buffalo, or whatever.

Heck, prior to Joseph Fosco’s ANP forum, not much was known in regards to the details of the Outfit’s inner workings. That forum really blew the lid off of many a topic & exposed the public to names that we’d never heard before. Lee Magnifichi, for example, one of the most powerful Outfit guys EVER, the one time #2 in the Elmwood Park Crew, and no one had really ever heard of him. The Outfit’s secrecy & ambiguity is astounding. You have to wonder just how they’ve managed to maintain it. I mean, ONE single made guy, in the entire history of the largest murican LCN family outside of NY!? The culture must truly be quite different there. We’ve gotten peaks into the current regime with the Panozzo Crew & Carparelli busts, but they were mere glimpses into what is still the most impenetrable LCN family of them all.

I’ve heard Sol DeLaurentis is really reorganizing things as the #1 now.

yeah the outfit are one the most fascinating families no doubt...

Hey did sarno get permission to hit Rizzo or maybe the acting boss don't need permission?

Yes but the Outfit had 30-40 made men and even you said that the Outfit made at the same level the italians with the non-italians at the end is a small family,and also Detroit family had only 1 rats.

I never heard about the outfit making non-itallian guys, I'm going to have to disagree with that

I'm not saying that the Outfit made non-italians but that if an associate is much powerful for the chicago hierarchy is equipared to a capo,that it.

Bigfella, toodoped posted a story about Gus Alex. Read it.

I don't believe he ever says that he's made. But he became one of the most powerful.

I always thinked if the "NY put a freeze on the induction on the small families" is true. I mean if in a small family like pittsburgh simple inducted new member even without NY permission instead of let that the family die?
After the commission trial there was no more a national commission and NY was far away.

Considering your vast knowledge of Pittsburgh, who was their last made member?

Chuckie Porter but you're the expert friend of henry.

I believe theirs new made members in Pittsburgh thier too much organized crime in Pittsburgh for it not to be. And do new york have the power to close the books for one particular family and purposely kill them off? Shouldn't a move like that be voted on? If you close the books don't that effect all families and not just one?

Detroit was/is minuscule compared to the Outfit. That’s be like comparing Buffalo to the Gambinos. They don’t compare


Also, no murican LCN family is pure Italian. Doesn’t work that way. Every Murican LCN family has non italians in it. It isn’t Europe. John Gotti was part Jew & the New York families had way way way more high up non Italian associates than any other families.

The Outfit never made any non Italians. Frank Schweihs & Gus/Sam Alex weren’t made men.

To clarify, no Murica LCN families are devoid of higher up non Italian associates, they all have them, and the bigger the family, the more non Italians involved. It’s not Italy over there, it’s a random melting pot of races from other (real) countries/nations.

Also to clarify, the Outfit never made a non Italian. Aleman & Schweihs were arguably the most prolific Outfit hitters ever, but neither were made guys