Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia

If we look at the evolution of both the American mafia and the Italian mafia(cosa nostra, ndrangheta, Camorra) then we see that the Italians succeeded a lot more over the years while the American mafia is not enjoying nearly the same success and is not making near the amount of money presently. What do you attribute this to? Better law enforcement in the US? Or were the Italians just a more resourceful and smarter over the years after seeing the Americans succeed in the early to mid 20th century?

Political influence

Most Italian immigrants to America were from Sicily and southern Italy, which suffered centuries of foreign domination and oppression. Italian immigrants were the most downtrodden and viciously denigrated whites in America. They were clannish and suspicious of outsiders and outside influences, including the Church and schools. They were easy prey for gangsters of their own kind. There were plenty of smart, ambitious Italian Americans, but absent college education or outside perspectives, some of them ended up in the Mafia, where they gained respect and money. Not so today. Today, college, not the Mob, is the destination for ambitious, young Italian Americans. The Mafia gets the John and Junior Gotti's. Self interest has replaced honore e famiglia in the Mob--it's cosa mia now, not cosa nostra.

Better law enforcement and less overall corruption (public and private)

Better financial opportunities outside of the underworld > smaller recruiting pool.

With this in mind, given the many pros of life in America vs Italy (especially S. Italy), I’m amazed by how much it’s still the same rather than how much it has changed. Same applies to Australia, Canada and Germany, three of the wealthiest and most stable nations on the planet along with the USA, yet filled of mafiosi and Mafia activities/influence.

You’d think that the American Mafia should have been long gone but, nope, they’re here and, by all accounts, they’re probably enjoying their best run since the 90’s.



There was never “honor” among them. They’ve always been glorified murderers and thieves, greedy and sociopathic. There were plenty of turncoats since the beginning, despite popular belief. The whole “family” thing was mere folklore to appear closer to the people they would then prey on.

political influence and connectionswith freemasons/secret services, the american mafia lost this kind of connections, and this is the major reason of its decline
the italian law enforcement is among the best in the world when it comes to organized crime, anyway

As m2w said , connections to secret services/freemasonry.You really think Matteo Messina Denaro can hide this long on small island as Sicily without the support of politicians/secret services/freemasonry. Same goes with Toto Riina & Provenzano who was on the run for 40 years. Toto Riina didn't kill Falcone alone, he was just someone who did dirty work.

Italian police keeps arresting them in huge busts almost every week, but its all street guys that are easily replaceable,they are not even the real mafia so to speak. Also in Italy you are guilty until proven otherwise,so some of them get released after busts. People that are on top and "real brains" behind the mafia hardly ever go to prison ,most of them are totally unknown to police anyways.

For a long time it was the other way around the US mafia had the political connections in a very rich country only the last decades the Italian Mafia surpassed LCN because of the links to freemasonry politics in Rome and business in North Italy. Southern Italy and sicily is still very poor and undeveloped so the mafias will always be the biggest employer.

During 1980's Sicilian mafia earned huge amounts of money from drug trafficking also don't forget the "Sack of Palermo".There is a lot of money to be made in South Italy,but yeah i agree that North is real deal when it comes to money

This is very true. The talent pool must’ve been much more rich.

How did the Americans lose their political contacts? At one time it appeared like they were the most powerful entity in the country and one of the most powerful entities in the world based on how people talk about them throughout most of the 20th century. They were on pace to be the most powerful criminal enterprise in the world but somewhere they unraveled. Now it is laughable to even compare their success and wealth to that of the Italians.

anyway italian mafia groups in italy (aside ndrangheta) are not powerful how used to be by the late '70 -
to early '90 when they were at their peak, the pressure of law is by far greater today, everybody knows the mafia exists as a criminal group, the mafia-related murders diminished heavily, in 1991 about 700, in 1992 about 400, today 50 at most

The difference is the italians in america can easly become something without be criminals where in italy for the people that live in the poor zones,joint the criminal organizations is the only way for have a better life.

Well yes,but the real power of mafia is secret services and masons , not the guys that end up dealing drugs on streets. That is the main difference.

If you had no strong organization the secret services or the masons would never help you.
For example the secret services used Cutolo for find where Moro and Cirillo was hidden,but if Cutolo was the NCO head nobody would ask his help.
In the 1970s the ndrangheta clans from the cities understood that use and be used by the masons and the services was convenient.But its were already powerful organizations that wanted to make a jump forward and create the "santista" for do it.

I agree completely. But, decades ago, a lot of those mooks wanted to believe in all that "honor and family" BS because it somehow made them feel that they weren't just common criminals and scumbags, which they were. And, when opportunities were scarcer for Mafia guys, it was better for them to stand up and take a prison sentence, knowing that they'd have a good living to come back to when they got out. Today, ratting out your "brothers" in the Mob is the ticket out of prison.

Quite the opposite actually.

There’s nothing laughable about their ability to firmly remain on top.

America is a far less fertile ground than Italy, yet according to the most reliable sources, the Italian-American LCN remains among the most influential criminal subcultures around, especially in the North East, America’s financial hub. Not to mention their continuous relationships with Canada and overseas (long believed to be dead and gone).

No one is remotely trying to imply that they are as influential on their home turf as Italian mobs are on theirs, but the fact that they face so many adversities and yet they manage to maintain their spot is stunningly remarkable and worrisome.

Another aspect I believe plays a role is the fact that America has an ever-changing ethnic landscape, today even faster than in the past. Post-1965 Immigration laws made the USA receive literally millions of non-European immigrants each year (most of whom end up in coastal cities) therefore changing the culture and communities in which they settle.

This doesn’t happen in Italy. All “new” ethnic mobs are small potatoes compared to Italian mafias. Foreign crooks are aware they’re guests on someone else’s turf. They know their boundaries. They can prey on their own and occasionally on unaffiliated Italian civilians, as long as they don’t pose a threat to the main traditional Mafias’ interests.

Considering how hard it is to get away with crimes now in America compared to places like Mexico, Russia or even Italy, the mafia has survived and thrived. After all the shit they faced, la cosa nostra survives. Old school Italian Americans are the toughest people on this planet. Even guys like gotti who had their flaws, would do a thousand years standing on his head. No other group in America will ever match or come close to matching what la cosa nostra had, and to an extent still has.

With the abandonment of the Italian communities for the suburbs, better education and the desire to get made without having to prove yourself, or prove you can do time without squealing is the direct link to weakening the mob. Just look at Cali’s killer. You think Albert Anastasia, crazy joe, John gotti or the grim reaper wouldn’t have taken this guys family out for retribution? Some it up its the pussication of the mob. The entire society has gotten soft. A trophy for everyone! The money for the mob is in the inner city communities, and that’s controlled by gangs.

I agree that the US Italian mob has still sustained and that should be noted. I am saying that it is laughable to compare the amount of money and influence that the Italians have to any criminal group in the US because they take in so much money and wield so much power. The Ndrangheta in particular. They have invested and cleaned a lot of their money as well. I have always said that the goal for the 5 families was to become like Michael corleone in Godfather 3. They wanted to legitimize their hundreds of millions of dollars(once they made that much).

it's very resilient being the oldest criminal group in the states

Did the Italians take from the model that the Italian Americans had originally put in place?

The Americans were modern and businessmen, before that the Sicilians were just a bunch of peasants. But the Mafia is a Sicilian thing they had the structure already in the 1800s.

Right. I am talking about how the Americans were more business minded and then the Italians followed suit afterward.

I think the real transformation of the Italian mafia can be traced back to when they got involved in drug trafficking. And possibly construction as well. Would the Americans be in better or worse shape if they became more involved in drug trafficking much like the Italians? Or would it have brought too much heat to the point of no return? Always impressed me how the Americans were able to make so much money without dealing drugs(in a lot of cases, not all of course). Like franzese with the gas scam, Lombardozzi with Wall Street, I am positive there are many more examples.