Family vs Cartel

Is there a big difference that distinguishes a mafia family from a cartel? Or are they interchangeable?

The difference is that a crime family isn't focused only on drug trafficking but are also in the white collar crimes and every lucrative rackets;another difference would be the fact that there an induction ceremony and that (in sicily) arent used children as sicarios. And more important a sicilian crime family stay in the shadow while the Cartels are always in war each others.

Mafia's are a secret society with initiations and codes.

Some cartels like the Knights Templar are more mafia-like. Named after the medieval military order that protected Christian pilgrims during the Crusades, members carry a code book decorated with pictures of cloaked knights with red crosses.

Didn’t the Cali cartel invest a lot of money in banks among other outlets much like a mafia family would?

Depends on what you mean by difference? In terms of what? The cartels are like semi-street insurgents and operate like a urban milita/insurgents but at the same time they are really organized and low key in some aspects. They operate openly yet at the same time secretly. They have commandos made of sicarios that are grouped and coordinated by retired or ex-police or military to move around and cause an "operation" on enemy turf to kidnap and extract info of rival cartels especially about the distributions of drugs and weapons, stash houses, and rival captains and street and or local bosses. They are in the open, when the military is not on the streets but they also remain behind the scenes or out of sight when the military is in. They have kids on the payroll to look out for them from the military and many know the military convoy/routines etc. I really don't know much about the cartels but I can picture it by info over the past years and some knowledge about them about songs and other things.

I think another big factor is that the mafia considers their members as not perishable or throwaway while the cartels do think of their sicarios, halcones(informants) and drug sellers as throw away.

Speaking about the sicilian mafia,the mafiosi consider themselves as part of a secret society that live and made money in the shadow,the society have rules that even was broken under Riina reign,the old guys wanted to rebuilt it.
The tried to rebuilt the old rules: every family had its territory and is part of the province,and various provinces made the commission with a capo dei capi.
The cartels live with the violence and the terror and doesn't matter if the members live or not.
For the mafia if a man was inducted,he was untouchables without his family ok for whack him.
The cartel are more similar to the camorra clan.

A cartel by definition is an association of manufacturers or suppliers with the purpose of maintaining prices at a high level and restricting competition. The American mafia were more extortionists than a cartel. For example, Big Paul and Chin forced builders to buy their concrete in the 80s but only because they would face union action if they didn't. That's not necessarily control of supply. Same with waste management. Supply was never the issue for anyone trying to break into that industry. Threats, arson, and things like that kept them out.

That´s right when the different ´ndrangheta clans invest in drugs the also operate like a cartel.

huge difference
start with the hierarchy
and the way they operate - crime families especially LCN are more about money then being a force and make a name for themselves
the lcn always wanted to stay ''underground'' and in the shadows.
and as you can see the cartel are usually more violence, and they are looking for attention and media exposure with their tattoos and bodies left cut to pieces
on the streets and more...

If LCN is more about money, what stopped them from making more money than the Medellin or Cali cartels(allegedly)? If they were all into drugs, yet LCN had their hands in many others operations, how come there isn’t one family during the 1980s era when Medellin was dominating that is ever really compared to them in terms of money? I am not too knowledgeable on the mafia in Italy but have researched a little. Like I said, I am assuming all 3 were heavily involved with drugs yet in Italy they focused on other rackets as well.

Why did the Camorra never really adopt the ways of the Sicilians or Calabrese? Wasn’t there one point in time when the Camorra was making as much money as both of them?

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Why did the Camorra never really adopt the ways of the Sicilians or Calabrese? Wasn’t there one point in time when the Camorra was making as much money as both of them?[/quote]

The camorra clans never accepted someone above all of them like the sicilians with the commission,the only cases was in 1800 with the Bella Società Riformata and with the NCO and NF. Simply the camorristi doesn't understand why create a hierarchy and a capo dei capi in campania while they made money and stay well with this situation.
For the second question maybe in the 1800 with the Bella Società but only in Naples.

Based on what I've read, the relationships with corrupted government officials is different between Siclian families and Camorra, to, are they not? Isn't Camorra willing to work with crooked government officials as a partnership, while Sicilian mafia families have too much distrust for government to ever partner with corrupted members of it, and only work with corrupted officials that they completely own and have by the balls, through some form of blackmail or leverage?

Oakasfan in both cases there are rogue cops that will give informations in change of money,the sicilian mafia had more political power and had more protection than a small camorale clan but I repeat doesn't matter if are camorra,mafia or ndrangheta there will be ever government officials that will help or will protect the crime groups. An ex ample the former Mayor of Rome Gianni Alemanno get 6 and half years for accept bribe by mafia capitale crime group.

The camorra clans never accepted someone above all of them like the sicilians with the commission,the only cases was in 1800 with the Bella Società Riformata and with the NCO and NF. Simply the camorristi doesn't understand why create a hierarchy and a capo dei capi in campania while they made money and stay well with this situation.
For the second question maybe in the 1800 with the Bella Società but only in Naples.
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I would’ve thought the 70s and 80s because of guys like Afieri, Nuvoletta’s and Zaza among others.

The camorra clans never accepted someone above all of them like the sicilians with the commission,the only cases was in 1800 with the Bella Società Riformata and with the NCO and NF. Simply the camorristi doesn't understand why create a hierarchy and a capo dei capi in campania while they made money and stay well with this situation.
For the second question maybe in the 1800 with the Bella Società but only in Naples.
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I would’ve thought the 70s and 80s because of guys like Afieri, Nuvoletta’s and Zaza among others.
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Afieri, Nuvoletta and Zaza was feared and respected and was choose for fight against cutolo but after his downfall the NF ended and the members started again to kill each others. Its anarchy, today even the smallest clan wont accept to follow the order of another camorrista, doesn't mean that maybe this would be more money,live better etc no and no! Even the Casalesi are divided in 3/4 families each with own rackets.

i dont understand how the goverment dismantled the old camorra in 1909 after the cuocolo's trial
bella società riformata/camorra was very powerful since early 1800

So would the Casalesi be more similar to the way that the Sicilians and ndrangheta operate? Also, you mentioned capo di tutti capi before. Something the camorra has always lacked. Who would be that for the Sicilians and calabrese?

Nuvolettas and Casalesi are part of Cosa Nostra.

As are the Zazas if I’m not mistaken. What does it say about the Camorra that their most successful families are part of cosa nostra and not independent?

I'll just state the obvious: A mafia family is one organization, a cartel is a group of organizations involved in one joint venture.

If we are speaking of Central American or North American cartels compared to a mafia family in the States or in Europe, the differences are also going to be determined by the business model. The business model of the C or S American cartels involve farmers and peasants who grow their contraband, likely with government sanction. In contrast, a mafia family might usually be involved in distribution or refinement of that product. To my knowledge mafia families don't have armies of peasants and farmers working for them. The cartels many times are outright land owners and farmers.

another big difference is the longevity, the mafia-type groups last a lot of time, even hundred years, a cartel by far less, look like medellin and cali cartels were entirely dismantled, and sinaloa and the mexican ones would be in the next years
one of the greatest successes of the mafias is handed down from generation to generation, that's why italian mafia in the united states is still alive and other groups jewish, irish etc. disappeared, at least those active long ago

Lorenzo Nuvoletta,Michele Zaza and Antonio Bardellino was inducted in cosa nostra as sign of respect but their organization wasn't part of Cosa Nostra and after their deaths their clan continue to be a camorra clans.

The casalesi have initiations based on the Mafia and the repentant Antonio Iovine referred to their organization with cosa nostra.

Are there any cartels that have stood the test of time?

Antonio Calderone said that Michele Greco essentially controlled the Nuvoletta clan. Idk how accurate that is.

The mafia organizations are definetely more deep rooted into their communities and socities unlike the cartels which are practically "new", the mafia families also haven't had much intervention from the most powerful state or nation of the world, the USA unlike in Colombia and Mexico, the U.S DEA and CIA are more deeply involved and entrenched into their information entrenched into their information/intelligence gathering. It's very different from Europe where the INTERPOL doesn't have enough intelligence gathering techniques and sophisticated equipment to go after the bosses or cartels. The U.S is in a joint operation with the Mexican government to dismantle or "get rid" of or even control the drug trade how they see it benefits either or both, socities .

The Gulf Cartel has operated since the 30s but then again there was no intervention from foreign or state/federal governments to try and take it down.

I think one of the big things nobody has mentioned is Membership. The other is Rules.

The Mafia is like a quasi-religious cult. In the Mafia membership is one of the most difficult and important things to attain. Like they said in Goodfellas, "It's like a license to steal". The reason why the families have lasted so long is the family is supposed to be more important than the self. Obviously this is bs a lot of times, but even today people in the Mafia respect the structure and rules to a large degree. Now I'm not saying it's still the 50s, but there's still a lot of respect for the rules, which is why the Mafia is still in power.

Anybody who operates inside a mafia region who isn't a member, risks a Mafia member reaching out and taking a piece of their action. Often independent operators seek out the mob for protection from other criminals.

A cartel is a far looser organization. Nobody is sworn in as a member or pledges loyalty to the organization. That's why we see splinter groups like the Zetas splitting off from the Gulf Cartel, the Zetas recently splitting into two or more groups, etc. Cartel membership is very hard to define and people disagree on what counts as membership. Is a wholesaler in Buffalo a member of the Sinaloa Cartel? Or, just an independent operator who has a connect?

The Zeta/Gulf split would never happen in LCN. Look at the Gallo Crew - They had basically three options: 1) Eventually fall in line behind Profaci 2) Kill Profaci and take over the family themselves 3) Or, get transferred over to another family. The idea that they could form their own family? Never could've happened in a million years. The other family wouldn't have recognized them. They risked being killed by *other families* too.

The cartels don't give a shit. You got a supply? You got customers? Then you're golden. You'd obviously have to fight off other cartels, but you don't need anyone to grant them legitimacy so to speak.

The cartels are also all structured differently. The Zetas were like a paramilitary operation. The Sinaloa Cartel like a federation of different traffickers and bosses, with a lot of independent traffickers underneath them.

Just think about all of the rules in LCN: No sleeping with another made guy's wife, nobody who was a former police officer can be a member (happens all the time in Mexico), no killing of women and children (at least in US LCN), and on and on. Honestly, if the Cartels had the same level of rules as LCN they would be far less violent.

The cartels are more like a corporation than a organization, you have the CEOs controlling everything and then the managers/staff managers and so on. I guess the commadantes and ranking organization members have some type of legitimacy. As for the wholesalers, the cartels take more of a hands off approach, meaning they still abide by CEO rules but they do everything by in a semi-idependent manner. Similar to CEO of different organizations and corporations handling upper business regulations but the lower level or semi idenpendent whole sallers going or abiding by rules and regulations.