Question about snitching

Hi everyone. I'm a new user here and I like to ask something about snitching. Sorry my of grammar and other stuff, English isn't my first language.If you see a grammar mistake, you're welcomed to point out it

I'm from northern Europe, precise from Finland. Here we have lack of OC, which is a good thing, I think. We have Hells Angels, Bandidos and some Russian or Estonian oc members but not so much.

If normal person sees a crime, it is normal to call police and tell what you have seen etc. I think it is fine, because the witness is a civil. When criminal is telling what his crime partner did, that's snitching.

Is this mentality normal in US or UK? Probably not in the corners of Baltimore, Chicago and so one.

My personal opinion is this, if you are a civil and you saw a crime, it is ok to call to police and testify. You are a member of civilized society, not a criminal. I believe many citizen in Scandinavia thinks like I think. Well, not residents of Stockholm, Malmö and Gothernburg ghetto's.

I hope we would have a nice chat about this subject.

If you call the police for any fucking reason (civilian or not), you're a fucking rat. You understand? Don't come in here with this rat shit.

Welcome, Maatsetungi. Hope to see many thoughtful posts from you.

To give you a courteous answer (unlike the answer above):

Police in America encourage civilians to report crimes and criminals because those reports help them to get bad guys off the streets. For example: Last weekend, 66 people were shot in Chicago, and the Chief of Police went on TV asking people who witnessed the shootings to come forward.

The Mafia and other organized crime gangs are supposed to have a "code of honor" that outlaws snitching and threatens death to snitches. Yeah, sure. The reality is that today, almost anyone in organized crime who's charged by police with a major felony will rat out his fellow gang members if it means he will get a reduced sentence. If you are a "civilian" and you snitch on an organized crime member, you could be in very big trouble because the OC guy may try to kill you to prevent you from testifying against him.

citizens, if someone robs your mothers house, and you have no recourse, you are a square who lives out in rural iowa, i wouldnt call you a rat because it affected you and you have no means to fight it...if you a driving up the highway, and a guy speeds by, and you know hes going faster than 70, and you call the cops..your a snitch with nothing better to do..or if the guy is texting or something, and you just call the police for the hell of it..dont laugh, a lot of people do it...if you are a civilian, and you do something stupid with the criminal element, and law enforcement is on you to help them, well yes your in trouble with oc, and you fucked up because you put yourself in the know..

The secret to organized crime is that if you don't snitch, you won't get rich. All gangsters with real money work with the cops.

Civilians don't live by the code of the streets and it is ignorant to expect them to. The code is for those in the criminal world.

To be honest the whole taboo about ratting is bs. These guys rat all the time it doesnt matter if its to cops or higher ups in the organization. Also to answer your question if you see a crime then the noble thing to do is report it

They can work with cops by bribes, snitching is another matter.

If you or someone else sees a crime, of course you report. it.


If you or someone else sees a crime, of course you report it. An O.C. member most likely would not, depending on the O.C. group they are in, and what crime they see. Any citizen should call the police.

I've seen cops on some of these Gangland type programs say things like "snitches get stitches". That's weird.

The thing is, there is really no point in cooperating unless you're doing it at a substantial level, especially nowadays. The feds will not stick their neck out for you unless you give them actual, useable, actionable information. And with the majority Mafia busts, we can see that it only takes one or two rats to take down 10, 20, or 30 guys.

But often they won´t out of fear or other reasons in particular if they belong to the same communities.

Spoken like a real man's man capeesh

If you are a civilian there is no omertà and the stop snitching movement is a joke.

People will say they live by that until someone they care about is hurt or killed.... then to top things off it’s the cops fault!

Meanwhile it’s amazing to me how in urban neighborhoods someone can get shot and everyone didn’t see or hear anything.....

Then a week later at the exact same time if a cop is put in a difficult situation there ends up being 35 ppl video taping it.

How does that happen???? It’s a joke....

But in my opinion ..... try to mind your own business if you see something petty..... a drug deal, drug user, someone speeding, someone stealing .... petty crap.... it’s non of my business.

If I saw someone innocent get hurt and I was asked about it and did see it I guess I would be a rat. I wouldn’t go out of my way to do it but....

If someone attacked or hurt my family if I couldn’t hit them on my property and have it be self defense.... I would again be a snitch.

But I try to mind my own business.

So if you came home and found a masked person physically or sexually assaulting your wife/mother/sister/child you would put out a platter of cookies and milk for them and wait for them to finish?

Your statement is so moronic, but, who knows, maybe you're in character?

There are countless stories of legitimate people getting mobbed up friends and neighbors to attack, or worse, kill, other people over beefs i.e. lover's quarrels, domestic disputes etc.

That not a form of snitching?

What about old neighborhood ladies alerting mobsters to the presence of undercover FBI in Italian neighborhoods back in the 70s and 80s.

Is this not a form of snitching or does snitching only count when you are trying to prevent an act of harm against someone else?

There are countless stories of mobsters ratting other mobsters out to superiors in order to undercut them, to steal their rackets, to get them killed, to demote them; means of which include making up stories of insubordination, selling out their drug dealing, or claiming that their holding back in their envelopes to their superiors.

How about that, is that not snitching?

Look at the deceit and betrayal endemic in late 70's and early 80's Philadelphia as wiseguys stepped over each other and continuously backstabbed each other in order to climb to the top and remove their enemies.

This entailed snitching. However, again, people clearly have different ideas when it comes to the definition of snitching.

I don't think mobsters should do it, but, then again, that only works well in theory. They are all thieves and liars by definition, and every time they plead out a case they are breaking the oath of "Omerta" and acknowledging the presence of their "secret organization".

Any right-minded person will alert the authorities if they are aware of a crime. There are ifs, buts, and maybes, but even when it comes to an older child bullying a smaller child, I don't care, I'm stepping in.

When mobsters rat out other ethnic criminals to the feds, often in the form of quid-pro-quo "you do something for me, I'll do something for you", is this not a form of snitching. I mean it often comes in the form of "protecting our own", "protecting our neighborhood", "doing our civic duty", "don't shit where you eat", but, really, often it just means they want a monopoly on drug dealing, extortion, booking etc. in this valuable real estate.

Luciano, Costello, Gambino, Lucchese all gave up info at some point to take down an adversary. Bonanno wrote a book ratting on everyone. This thing was founded on snitching. The guys at the bottom of the pecking order can live by their delusional code of silence all they want. The bosses talk. Always have.

this is simple..the rule is you rat on no person at any time for any reason, ever. even a terrorist.. bosses, made guys ect gave info and or dry snitched through out history. some did. i.e. persico knew scarpa was a rat ,.but was on his side

No way. You BS on a consistent basis. That is propaganda put out by the government, the same one you criticize all the time.

I think Persico was too stupid to see it, or took the word of others who told him it was not true. He is close to being the dumbest NYC boss, maybe the dumbest. He must be very tough, and has a strong commitment to his men and to the mob, but on the brain side he is no Einstein. He has spent over 40 years in prison all together, yet the media calls him a powerful man. No powerful men do that much time, or any time at all.

I'd respect OakasFan a lot more if he just said "In my opinion", but the fact that he posts his weird, outlandish, nonsensical conspiracy theories as if they're fact is what gets me.

It would be almost stranger to think that the guys he mentioned could attain all that power without cooperation of some kind in order to sustain it. Guys like Luciano and Gambino have gained an almost mythical aura in the eyes of crime aficionados. Their truths are probably less glamorous.

It was a different time in terms of law enforcement. Anybody who knows anything about organized crime knows that it was incredibly hard to convict mob bosses until RICO, provided they weren't directly, hands-on involved in crimes like Vito Genovese was.

I know the mafia was given carte blanche to become powerful because of poor leadership from the FBI. I've mentioned that recently. I still maintain people like Costello had to offer stuff to become that rich and powerful. Hell, we already know Luciano and Bonanno had no compunctions about snitching - if we're holding them to the same standard as the snitches Ralphie alludes to.

People go on about Castellano being afraid of jail. I bet Gambino was, too. Galante had his number.

Joe Bonanno's "snitching," if you can call it that, didn't go far beyond a factually incorrect and self-embellishing book. In fact, the book got him in even MORE trouble with the federal government because he was called to testify, refused, and served 14(?) months in prison for it. Does that sound like a particularly 'cooperating' witness to you?

Also, OakasFan's argument has been that because mob bosses like Carlo Gambino and Tommy Lucchese avoided prison throughout most of their career, they must have been cooperating witnesses. The figure that Oak put it at was "half of all mobsters" in the history of LCN.

But the big, striking issue there is how many mob bosses went to prison after the RICO law was fully used in the 1980s. The answer is: pretty much all of them.
What does this mean? If you follow Oak's philosophy, then that means that post-1980, mob bosses all suddenly stopped cooperating with law enforcement as mob bosses had done before. If Oak's philosophy is to be believed, than the RICO law coming into effect was just a coincidence.

Just about every single mob boss post-1980 was busted and given long sentences, with the majority dying in prison, whereas mob bosses prior to 1980 stayed out of prison because, according to Oak, they were informers. Which still leaves some burning questions unanswered:

Why did all mob bosses post-1980 suddenly decide to stop cooperating with law enforcement whilst they were on the street?
Building on this, why did all mob bosses post-1980 suddenly decide to stop cooperating with law enforcement whilst they were on the street JUST AS the RICO law came into use and the FBI announced a major initiative to destroy the Five Families? That seems like pretty poor timing, wouldn't you say?

If you use your head, you'll open yourself to the possibility that perhaps most mob bosses (that stayed on the street) prior to 1980 weren't informers, but maybe the federal policy and laws were ill-equipped to combat the Mafia. Maybe the fact that Carlo Gambino and Tommy Lucchese and Joe Bonanno were able to stay on the street for so long is because the lack of the RICO law meant it was close to impossible to convict mob bosses with the street-level crimes such as murder and loansharking that they were able to be convicted of in the future.

Yes, it was very self-serving and embellished. But, Bonanno provided readers with the only extant description of the Commission's workings. One of the readers was Rudy Giuliani, who was then the US Attorney for the Southern District of NY. Giuliani saw in Bonnano's description of the Commission an example of a "Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization" under the RICO Act. Result: The Commission Case.

Is there any factual evidence to back the theory of Luciano and whoever else involved setting up Vito Genovese on the narcotics charge in 1959?

Was Genovese involved and they dropped a dime on him or was he not involved and they set him up to take the fall?

It's hard to imagine he wasn't involved in narcotics but the whole idea of the boss Genovese meeting with Nelson Cantoloups or whatever is name was who was an unmade low level street guy seemed far fetched too.

That was some serious snitching to have bosses snitch/set up another boss.

Along with what they just said, I maintain Costello couldn't have maintained such an air of legitimacy and stayed out of prison without some form of snitching on competitors. Ditto Gambino.

And it's been a slippery slope ever since, with plea deals and any notion of the mafia being a secret society thrown out the window.

But I respect your views and the way you get them across Nicky from Tampa, even if you are somewhat condescending in how you get them across sometimes.

Think about it this way: in those days, cops didn't corrupt wiseguys, wiseguys corrupted cops. That changed when the feds got involved.



That's fair enough, I respect that.

Luciano reached the height of his power in 1936, and got 40 years on a frame up, so that sounds like the opposite of. snitch. Gambino sated low key till 1963, then was hounded by the FBI for years, they even released transcripts of him and his wife arguing. Yet they never caught hi son tapes, that is what kept him out of prison. They did arrest him several times once on a armed robbery he had nothing to do with, which is said to be the one time he got angry during an arrest. Not a rat. Case closed,

Ironically, the only people who don't snitch are cops. Not on each other. That blue line is 20 times stronger than Omerta.

They never wanted. a "Mythical aura". They wanted to stay low key and under the radar. Because they did not cooperate, they had their names plastered all over the news.

No one has ever shown any evidence of him setting Genovese up, but the story was put out by law enforcement for whatever reasons they leak those types of stories to cooperating reporters.

That has to be sarcasm.

I would handle it myself. You're either a man or you're not. A man does not run to mommy whenever there's trouble. A man handles business in a manly way. This may be very hard for you to understand since you were obviously raised by people who ratted every time they felt powerless. You are the product of victim culture.

If you want to be seen as a strong man with honor and integrity then you must have your principles in order. You never rat! I would rather watch my 4-year-old son get torn to pieces by hungry lions than rat.

Op America is so large and culturally diverse that there really is no simple answer.

South side of Chicago compared to some small town in Utah is like different countries. Cultural norms are all over the place.

That's pretty edgy, man.

If you were serious when you said this, you must be a real piece of shit type, like pedophiles and serial killers.

And stop using words like “manly”, “honor”, “integrity” and “principles”, since you have first to learn their meaning to be able to use them appropriately.

You probably have spent all your life in prison and know no other life than the underworld, if you are seriously ready to throw your son to the lions, as you just said.

Dwalin, you're wrong on that last bit, he's 99% just some suburban guy with no criminal record whose obsessed with the Mafia and loves nothing more than to hang around half-connected guys at a bar and pretend like the Mafia is still the driving criminal force in the United States.

Well, I would be able to sleep at night and I'd be able to smile whenever I'd see the man in the mirror. And my son..my son would be looking down from Heaven saying 'I'm proud of you dad..You didn't rat.' What more could a father ask for?

I think we're all genuinely disturbed now, Ralphie.

That is brutal, and I know quite a number of ex cons and felons that would make you a punk in that last statement.

You guys are funny

There it is. Ralphie was kidding. You really are a funny guy!!!

You're adorable

Funny How?

Like I said, Ralphie's some suburban guy who creams his pants anytime someone with a vowel at the end of their name talks to him.

You sound like you're talking about yourself Nicky

I've never once claimed to a) know any mobsters, b) be associated with any mobsters, or c) respect the Mafia or the mobsters way of life. If I get mugged by some random guy as I'm walking along the road, I'm calling the boys in blue straight away. I pay my taxes to fund them, so I might as well use them when need be.

Thank you for being honest. I am certainly not surprised

I'm glad you're not surprised, because it means you see me as the honest and law-abiding citizen I am. Police definitely have their flaws, but as a general rule they're there to help.

But if you want to give off the impression you're connected, then you're not fooling anybody.

Your insecurities are more entertaining than just about anything I've witnessed this entire year

This is coming from the guy who is berating and hassling a foreigner for asking a question about calling the police. You must be a very lonely person to act tough and hard to strangers you’ll never meet. I wonder how many other tough, hardcore, connected mobsters go on Internet forums using a pseudonym from The Sopranos and talk about which historical mobsters are overrated.

There was a Bonanno soldier who posted here once, but I think he was just trying to sell a jet ski.

What was his name?

Would u sell your daughter to a pedophile before snitching?

Oak knows all about snitching

Of course. I would molest her myself before snitching.

I think you seriously need to put yourself in that situation first before you start thinking you are Sonny Corleone and Tom Hagen rolled into one. When you get a little bit older you realise it's more about money and survival than honor and integrity. People like Sonny Franzese are men of integrity and respect but we don't have many of them left. I think you've watched the Godfather too many times

LOL

Ralphie needs 2 see a doctor of some sort or have what Francis Farmer had done 2 her.

LOL...clapping involved..LOL...

No he just thinks he's living in the 1950s after watching the Godfather. After he watches Scarface he probably texts all of his friends to see if they are interested in buying some drugs, thinking he's the kingpin of his town because he bought a gram of weed

************ removed personal slur *******************

R.I.C.O. and WIT-SEC is what did in American LCN.

There is literally a line in the sand to whereas you can see after the successful implementaction of these two LCN as we knew it ceased to exist.

I think it is the mentality of the people involved. In the early days of LCN they would die before ratting, then as the generations changed so did the Mafia.

All this talk about being rats , while posting on Rat a board , That's right folks where all rats by using this site,

I don't understand your logic but feel free to sit at the cheese eater's table if you like.

I think you might have a bit of a warped understanding of the term "rat". Most of us just post info that can be found all over the web and in books if you search for it. We don't throw out names that haven't been made public. Law enforcement isn't gonna get a major breakthrough by scavenging this site.

It's not as simple as that.

@ strococs

How is any of this ratting? We aren't in the mafia - some of us clearly want to be, but aren't - so we can't rat by definition. In ten years I implore you to show us any man or woman who has been defamed by someone wrongly saying they're a gangster or a mobster on this site.

We know what these people are. These people know what they are.

If you're an accountant and you rat on another accountant, that's more like ratting than Joe Public talking about John Gotti.

If you choose to be a scumbag criminal than you should forfeit any right to live a private life.

A small price to pay for raising taxes for everyone else and overall being a bloodsucking leech sucking on society.

yes plenty of wannabes on this site ,
all your comparsions are apples and oranges moe

If you don't understand how this is a form of ratting , I don't think I would waste my effort explaining it because you will never get it

Nevertheless, I'm dying for some clarification how this is a form of ratting.

Gossiping, dry snitching, etc, I suppose. Sure. No more than mob reporters like Jerry Capeci and Selwyn Raab. We're basically like the kids in Bronx Tale who watch the mobsters from the stoop and identify them. Except we're adults. It's kind of sad, but it's really fun. Plus you learn stuff. To me, the mob is like westerns. Some people are into cowboys and indians, I find the mafia interesting. It's impossible to tell the story of America in the 20th century without including the mob. It's great reading, great cinema, and great journalism.

Those damn altar boys. Ratting on all those priests and breaking the omerta of the Catholic church.

While it's certainly true that lots of gangsters become informants , the claim that almost every one of them does so when faced with a major felony charge is rather absurd . For starters many gangsters , especially high level ones , aren't even offered the opportunity to become informants due to them being the ones law enforcement wishes to bring down . After all if everyone had the chance to become an informant , then it would become all that much harder to put people away for a long stretch , which would result in law enforcement losing face in the eyes of the public for being too lenient .

Furthermore while it's true that more LCN members are becoming ( at least out of the closet ) informants these days , it's not like almost all of them start singing after being taken in . I mean its not as if the most recent busts confirm that assumption .


And while we're on the subject , there are plenty of countries out there where gangsters don't face much reprisal from the authorities as long as they don't tip the scales too much .

Spot on 2a.

I'd like to add to this Greg Scarpa's status as a top-echelon informer, as written in his documents.
First of all, Greg Scarpa was attributed by Colombo squad case agent Lin DeVecchio as being the one behind most of the Title III wiretaps on the Colombo's hierarchy and capos. If "half" of all mobsters were cooperators, then there'd be a lot more people than Scarpa that could secure the Title IIIs.
"Over the course of the past five years, this source had furnished vast quantities of singular information concerning the Colombo Family which has directly led to 17 affidavits in support of Title III intercepts, and 50 re-authorizations of these intercepts. As a result, the NYO in October, 1984, arrested the boss, underboss, three capos, the former boss, three members, and two associates of the Colombo Family (NY 183-2836 "Eclipse Star", NY 183A-2636 "Starquest")."

"This matter involves the indictment and subsequent arrests of all the bosses of each of the five LCN families in New York who compose the "Commission" as well as two underbosses, a consigliere, and a high ranking soldier. This investigation and subsequent predicate violations are based upon Title III intercepts which have provided the necessary facts to support prosecution. These intercepts particularly from the Colombo and Genovese wires are directly attributable to the probable cause initially provided by this source. Therefore, not only has information directly from this source caused the arrest of at least 30 major members of organized crime, but has resulted in the arrest of every boss of all five LCN families in New York.
"The above represents only a small portion of the quantity of significant information provided, which if fully documented would require a lengthy summary report. The source has been paid, over time, relatively small sums for this information. In fact, since re opening, the source has only been paid a total of (redacted) for services and expenses. The overall sum of money is certainly not commensurate with the high quality of the information, considering the numerous indictments, arrests, and sheer amount of singular information which would not have been available from any other source. The result is the saving of countless thousands of man hours in investigative time, and window into the inner workings of the most significant organized crime group in the country.
"Furthermore, the amount requested represents the FBI's appreciation of not only the information, but the high degree of risk assumed by the source at every contact while so doing. Sources of this caliber are extremely rare in the FBI and serve as a tribute to the Informant Development Program in the Organized Crime Field."
- Greg Scarpa's file.

There's no question that Scarpa was, without a doubt, one of the highest ranking cooperators of his time, at least in the Colombo Family, and crucial to the Commission Case. If, as OakasFan has always maintained, "half" of all mobsters throughout history were cooperators, than Scarpa would have no way received the amount of recognition in the Commission case.
Scarpa's accolade and recognition in the Commission Case (spanning all Five Families) pretty much disproves the notion that the top-levels of all five families were swimming with undercover informants.

Do you see what I'm saying, Oak?

A real man like Ralphie Cifaretto would let the priests loose on his own kids before he'd become a rat

If you aint snitchin', you aint tryin'. - Lucky Luciano

I never said "half". I said nearly all. Wiseguys are narcissists. They'd give cops information in a heart beat about someone who's a threat to them.

Still reading "Deal w/ the Devil"..taking forever , but Lin is def imo a scumbag,,especially after framing that Simone detective.

I agree Oak..most of them are narcissits. Whatever is yours is theirs. I been there, they love to feed off you.

Feel free to actually read my post about Greg Scarpa. It's obvious you didn't. Lin DeVecchio repeats, on multiple, multiple occasions, that Scarpa's information on the upper echelons of all Five Families is "singular" and unavailable from any other source. What part of that don't you understand?

Still getting through it now, hoodlum. Great book but not a light read.

Great post, and it puts everything in perspective. Nice find too.

Cheers Jace, and there I'm sure there are a helluva lot more accolades for Scarpa. All of this was taken (by me) from a relatively small section of Part 05 of 07 of his FBI file.

There is no need for that, If other religions are off limits catholics should be too. There are tons of Muslim sex scandals involving children gong on currently and in the past, if we discuss them we get called bigots or haters.

I 2nd that Jace.

I read it. It's boring, and not very informative.

it depends on the law of a country, not mentality, if a country has good laws against organized crime there would be several turncoats, like united states or italy for example
criminals are all potential rats, in every country

It has become a strategy like Provenzano gave up Riina.

It disproves your retarded argument. Simple as that.

I don;t think anyone can take gossiping as ratting. Even getting caught talking on a tape while gossiping, or just having a discussion can happen to anyone. Ratting is one of two things: Out right Sam Gravano style ratting, or Greg Scarpa undercover ratting. It's the giving up of info on another to keep themselves out of prison or for some other sort of gain. What you refer to as Dry Snitching is what Scarpa was doing all those years.

Omerta's a total joke. The top guys just sold that b.s. on the field hands to keep them loyal. Better they do the time. You're welcome.

You can't really believe that, and you don't. Bosses have taken long sentences as have many captains. You're welcome.

Omerta. Code of silence. Haha. Hahahaha! Haaaaaa!!! You probably believe in Santa Claus, too.

They were sold out by other bosses. Read between the lines. Stop believing in fairy tales.

You just say the craziest things with no sane reason or any proof to back it up. Get a life.

U 2 should get a room.........just kiddin'

Crazy is thinking there was ever a mafia with an actual code of silence that most adhered to. What a joke.

Couldn't U2 just book a stadium?

My friend, if you're simply trolling to have a laugh then I gotta say, well done - you kept me going for awhile.

But if you're not trolling I have just one question. Why did you refuse to look at the FBI evidence I provided which blatantly shows that, no, Greg Scarpa was one of the only - if not THE only - FBI informant in the upper ranks of the Mafia and the Commission during the 1980s? Lin DeVecchio, head of the Colombo/Bonanno squad (the families with the heaviest concentrations of rats) attributed Scarpa to providing SINGULAR knowledge which was unable to be found from any other source regarding the internal structure of the Colombo Family and, at times, other families and the entire Commission.

Why do you refuse to listen to that? And why do you also refuse to provide any evidence which bolsters your claim?

I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely amused that there are grown adults who really think there was ever really a mafia with an "omerta" culture of silence. This kind of fairy tale is something you'd expect an adolescent who just watched The Godfather for the first time to believe.

He is trolling, and his only reason for being there is to get under people's skin. He succeeds. Why he does it and laughs in everyone's face is for him to answer. He makes the most outrageous statements in politics, mob talk, or general discussions repeatedly, then denies being a troll.

An example:


http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/u...;Main=37990&Number=951757#Post951757

6 year old shot dead by police, here is OakA'sFan joking and mocking the little boy killed :

Oak:
"He should have controlled his kid. Sounds like a problem in his community...."


The thread it was taken from
http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/u...;Main=37725&Number=942496#Post942496

Not trolling at all.

The thread's title is "Question about snitching"

I'm answering. On topic. The answer is just too real for you. Sorry if I'm not feeding you the fairy tales you're used to hearing. A lot of mafia enthusiasts took the movies like The Godfather the wrong way. They're just movies. It's not really like that. It's business. Money. Crooks. And, they all work with the cops and roll on each other. Been part of the game since Lucky Luciano.

Your review of Downsizing is scattered, emotional, and all over the place. Since you're wrong most of the time, I was just advising that people probably should see the movie.

No, you are playing games. Knock it off.

Alright, Jace, let's respect the board and get back on topic, shall we? Nobody wants to read comments where we flame each other. Back to the snitching topic. That's what the thread is about.

Screw you, you are full of crap. I have had enough.

Jace, be civil. Respect the board, stay on topic, alright? I was on topic, and you started attacking me for some reason. Just discuss the topic, or go. It's that simple.

It's NOT that simple with you, Oak. You're no angel when it comes to dealing with other members here. I advised Jace to ignore you but that advice fell on deaf ears. Shame.

There was a time when taking a plea deal would've been considered ratting. Now it's the norm.

Didn't Vic Orena renounce the mob or something like that? I remember reading an article saying he became a eucharistic minister in prison.

Maybe he didn't renounce the mob but he seemed pretty desperate to get out of prison.

Him and Locascio.

I wonder if they would rat to get out of prison but they just don't have anything to offer having been inside so long and seeing as the Feds have got everyone/everything they wanted from that era.

I'm 2 stupid 2 figure out how 2 post the clapping hands emoji....but ..I'm sure alot of ppl agree on that SC!!

In retrospect, I've had my moments as no angel either ...but @ least I'll admit it..it's a 12 step thing...

Yeah i agree Moe.

Sure, let's get back on the topic of snitching.

Read the relevant quotes I took from Greg Scarpa's case file and make a response that justifies your answer. It's that simple.

Scarpa wasn't the first informant, he might've been the best up to that point but no way was he the first

Shit I've read fbi files about chicago that had informants going back to the late 60s/early 70s and their first made member to snitch in court was 2007

They all talk, man. They just do.

Jesus Christ Jace if you told me your schlong was touched up by Priest Brzyski I wouldn't of uploaded the pic?

Still waiting on a reply that’s got more substance than vague “Everybody’s a rat, only rats succeed” comments.

I think there were even rumors about Tony Accardo and Joey Lombardo being informers.

He has none.

There is no need for that, and in my opinion this is not the place for that.

I’m pretty sure Jace doesn’t have a schlong. Unless I am completely mistaken.

I wasn't aware there are women on this forum. I just hope I didn't threaten any

Allright, allright u fuckin' dickheads...….y cant u just leave it & jace alone,,,u have 2 realize that shes on her own..get off her back!!!.....fuckheads.

Every time I hear Do You Really Want To Hurt Me I think of Adam Sandler's The Wedding Singer.

you Americans have no sense of banter.

Lol love that film especially Steve Buscemi

The more I read ur posts,the more I realize ur probably a young idiot...we all get mad @ Oak,, but u more or less take it 2 heart or personal..someday, in the not so far future..ul get banned. fuckin' racist.

What the fuck are you talking about? I take it to heart? says the again who is a morbid fuck with a sense of humour loss. Look at you up Jace's ass defending her "honour" on a website lol.. she has probably been cocked more times than John Wayne's rifle

you just saw what I said to Oak so how I "take it to heart" is beyond me. You are far from a hoodlum , piece of shit is a more fitting name. Racist??? could you explain that one you absolute tit

You just went far over the line of decency, Japseye. Take a four month vacation from the GBB. We'll see if a new year will change you into a decent human being. I doubt it will but at least we get rid of you for the rest of the year.

Never beat the wedding singer from the hangover.

Now there's the SC I remember.

Also I didn't realize Jace was a woman....coupling that info with your info/interest in Scarpa, are you who I think you are?

FWIW snitching is not the only way gangsters can keep law enforcement off their backs . Another very effective way is doing favors for the secret services . To use a well known example , the strength of the Banda Della Magliana did not ( at least primarily ) derive from them being snitches , but from the work they did for elements of Italian military intelligence who were backed by the CIA .

From what I know it's rather standard practice for many Eastern European gangsters to work for secret service agencies and what with a big chunk of the region being of strategic importance in the fight against terrorism , it's rather probable that many Eastern European gangsters don't have to rat out other gangsters so much as rat out terrorists .

Naturally one can draw equivalency between the two practices , but I don't think it's too much of stretch to state that gangsters have ( generally ) never considered terrorists to be of their camp , which makes staying within the parameters of gangster code all that much easier .

OakasFan, I'm still wondering what's your view on Colombo/Bonanno squad supervisor Lindley DeVecchio describing in his FBI documents that "most" of Gregory Scarpa's information was singular and unavailable from any source, especially information on crew realignments, leadership changes, and induction ceremonies.
In my view, that completely disproves the notion that, as you have stated before, most made mobsters are cooperating with the government, otherwise this information from Scarpa would NOT be singular/unavailable from any other source.

Other than that, you of course have the argument that "most" mobsters do, at some point in their careers, heavy stretches in prison - stretches in prison which they would avoid if they were cooperating with the government.
You of course also have the notion that, from the 1980s-2001, the Mafia was at the top of the FBI's priority list, meaning they were dedicated to taking it down. If most members were cooperating then the government would effectively be trying to eliminate it's own paid employees.
You also have the notion that, if most mobsters were cooperating, the remaining ones would all be very, very, very quickly arrested and detained. At that point, all that's left would be cooperating witnesses so, naturally, the FBI could shut them down and the Mafia would be eliminated.

Do have a proper argument to these points? Or are you going to continue with the same old, "Omerta is dead," "You can't make it in the Mafia if you don't rat," vague comments?

Oak?

Hello darkness my old friend..

Shouldn’t surprise anyone, but I guess he really was trolling

DeVecchio I would take with a grain of salt. Scarpa did in fact do more damage to that family than another informant, and was close to the Persicos.

DeVecchio was the head of the Bonanno/Colombo squads at this time. He had access to a broad range of informers. If he was willing to stick his neck out and possibly even commit crimes to keep his prized informer Scarpa on the streets, then I’d wager that he’s not lying when he talked about Scarpas information being “exclusive” and “singular.” If Scarpas information was widely known to the feds, why stick your neck out to keep him on the streets? That’s my point, Giacomo, and even if DeVecchio is taken with a grain of salt it still shits into OakasFan’s bizarre and delusional lunacy.

As Tony would say, betta we let shleeping dogsh lie.

Go figure.

SNITCHING and RATTING are really two different animals.

This is very grey..

Case in point if you believe Donnie Brasco when the Bonnnano's opened that bar in FL,

They got shut down when supposedly the boss from N.Y. called up Trafficante and asked him to shut these guys down.

Trafficante supposedly had the local cops go in and bust up the place....

Now does that make TRAFFICANTE a rat?

No

Did he snitch?

I would.have to say YES
What else would you call it?

Again if the story is true

Did he break OMERTA?

I would say yes

Different shades of grey
When you are talking about ratting, snitching and breaking OMERTA

Very common back in the day in N.Y.C
The local police precients were all PAID off by local wise guys to look the other way etc.

Did those guys paying, ever drop a dime on their competition? I would say YES...

We're they rats? NO
Did they SNITCH YES
Break OMERTA? LOL only if they admitted it. But technically YES..

Thanx , Mikey..LOL