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Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral

Posted By: night_timer

Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 01:05 PM

We all know that Big Paul was not considered a 'street guy' by the blue collar faction of the LCN.

But I think Paul had a smarter (and newer) vision of LCN money-making. He was more modern.

I have always thought Neil Dellacroce was a charismatic LCN figure, perhaps the greatest of them all.

The hey-day of the New York LCN (the 1970s and 80s) became the era of La Cosa Nostra becoming too successful (and visible) for its own safety.

So, in his own way, was Big Paul wise to avoid the Dellacroce funeral and wake, even if Gott was pissed about it?

Sure, Gotti wanted revenge for the snub, but maybe Paulie made the right decision in terms of secrecy.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 01:14 PM

Did Vincent Gigante attend funerals when he was doing his crazy act? Did anyone complain?

It wasn't Gotti's prerogative, it's not a soldier or acting capo's prerogative to get the huff over what strategy a boss chooses to pursue in order to avoid unnecessary detection and surveillance from the Feds.

If this is the kind of insubordination Dellacroce taught his underlings I don't know why he's held in such esteem.

Then again we're talking about the same moron who within 12 months of becoming boss had gifted the Feds the entire structure and administration of the family because of his insecurity and need for everyone to kowtow to him.
Posted By: blueracing347

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 01:42 PM

Out of respect he should of shown up. But who was Gotti to dictate what the boss does. Gotti and his guys were on the verge of being seriously Fucked without Neil. Paul not showing up was ammo for Gotti to use to shoot his way out of his predicament. It always boggled my mind how Gotti was pretty much a hijack guy and the rest of the Gambino clan got behind him. Or did the indictments of the bosses make everyone say fuck being the boss. It seems like Henry Hill had better rackets than Gotti.
Posted By: bronx

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 02:04 PM

paul was on bail for two cases, he did need to give the fbi more pictures on bail to show a jury, gotti used his absence to fire up some guys
Posted By: Aces

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by bronx
paul was on bail for two cases, he did need to give the fbi more pictures on bail to show a jury, gotti used his absence to fire up some guys


I agree 100%.
Also this “ blue and white collar” bullshit is kind of absurd, was Carlo Gambimo a street guy? Look at Frank Cali, he is a businessman and loaded.
Posted By: mackinblack007

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 03:42 PM

Gotti skipped big Paul's lol, Paul was put out of his misery , he had numerous pianos over his head .
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 04:40 PM

Remember how the guys who planned the Galante hit all congregated at the Ravenite with Dellacroce after his murder? Remember all the surveillance photos and footage they dropped right at the feet of the Feds?

Fucking geniuses.

Paul should have had Dellacroce whacked long before Gotti and Ruggiero started becoming problems.

Stop the problem at the source.
Posted By: British

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 05:00 PM

Don't think getting a few bullets in the head was too smart!
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 07:25 PM

Kurins and O'Brian, in "Boss of Bosses," say that Paul's failure to attend Neil's wake and funeral counted heavily against him among the working stiffs in the family, and may have helped Gotti get away with regicide. But, in the Mob, you can never go wrong by following the money. Paul was greedy about sharing the wealth with the working stiffs.
Posted By: hoodlum

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Did Vincent Gigante attend funerals when he was doing his crazy act? Did anyone complain?

It wasn't Gotti's prerogative, it's not a soldier or acting capo's prerogative to get the huff over what strategy a boss chooses to pursue in order to avoid unnecessary detection and surveillance from the Feds.

If this is the kind of insubordination Dellacroce taught his underlings I don't know why he's held in such esteem.

Then again we're talking about the same moron who within 12 months of becoming boss had gifted the Feds the entire structure and administration of the family because of his insecurity and need for everyone to kowtow to him.

I was gonna go into this....but u just said it right & plain & simple Moe....
Posted By: Turnbull

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 08:57 PM

Neil wasn't that smart, either. He went away for five years on a tax-evasion rap--he lost $100k in a casino at a time when he was claiming only $10k in "legitimate" income.
Posted By: cookcounty

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Did Vincent Gigante attend funerals when he was doing his crazy act? Did anyone complain?

It wasn't Gotti's prerogative, it's not a soldier or acting capo's prerogative to get the huff over what strategy a boss chooses to pursue in order to avoid unnecessary detection and surveillance from the Feds.

If this is the kind of insubordination Dellacroce taught his underlings I don't know why he's held in such esteem.

Then again we're talking about the same moron who within 12 months of becoming boss had gifted the Feds the entire structure and administration of the family because of his insecurity and need for everyone to kowtow to him.



People respected gigante, they probably didn't respect castellano or give much of a fuck when he was killed
Posted By: Zavattoni

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/19/18 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Remember how the guys who planned the Galante hit all congregated at the Ravenite with Dellacroce after his murder? Remember all the surveillance photos and footage they dropped right at the feet of the Feds?

Fucking geniuses.

Paul should have had Dellacroce whacked long before Gotti and Ruggiero started becoming problems.

Stop the problem at the source.


Why didn't Paul have Dellacroce whacked? Was he still respecting Carlo's deathbed wish to keep Dellacroce as Underboss? Paul certainly could have used Gaggi; and DeMeo to set up the murder. If Paul did have Dellacroce whacked in let's say 1979' right after Galante's murder; Who could have been a good replacement as Underboss to keep the 'blue' collar guys in-check?

And to the question; Yes; Paul was smart not to attend Dellacroce's funeral. He was already in a shit-ton of trouble.
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/20/18 02:04 AM

Castellano was out on bail if I'm not mistaken? If so he may have had restrictions on him. If he did go, it. would have hurt anyone else who attended. I think he should have been allowed to go, but police, FBI and others along with he media would make as if was a crime to attend the funeral of a person he knew. He was smart to not go, and Gotti had no excuse for being mad, and no place in the mob at the time to question Castellano.
Posted By: dixiemafia

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/20/18 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Turnbull
Kurins and O'Brian, in "Boss of Bosses," say that Paul's failure to attend Neil's wake and funeral counted heavily against him among the working stiffs in the family, and may have helped Gotti get away with regicide. But, in the Mob, you can never go wrong by following the money. Paul was greedy about sharing the wealth with the working stiffs.


I think most mobsters knew why he didn't go to the funeral. But it just gave Gotti yet another reason to kill Paul and made it easier for him to get support.
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/21/18 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by dixiemafia
Originally Posted by Turnbull
Kurins and O'Brian, in "Boss of Bosses," say that Paul's failure to attend Neil's wake and funeral counted heavily against him among the working stiffs in the family, and may have helped Gotti get away with regicide. But, in the Mob, you can never go wrong by following the money. Paul was greedy about sharing the wealth with the working stiffs.


I think most mobsters knew why he didn't go to the funeral. But it just gave Gotti yet another reason to kill Paul and made it easier for him to get support.



I agree, or Gotti may have been ticked off over a thing he should have understood.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/23/18 03:21 AM

The Gambino family was split into two factions and that had nothing to do with GOTTI.

I think A LOT of the family felt Dellacroce deserved to be boss and not Castalllano.

Castallano was NOT able to patch the family back together when he took over.

If Gotti didn't do what he did I think someone else would have.

Castallano was about to give the acting to Billotti.

Gigante loved nothing more than having a weak Gambino admin so he could pick up rackst's



Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/23/18 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by BensonHURST
The Gambino family was split into two factions and that had nothing to do with GOTTI.

I think A LOT of the family felt Dellacroce deserved to be boss and not Castalllano.

Castallano was NOT able to patch the family back together when he took over.

If Gotti didn't do what he did I think someone else would have.

Castallano was about to give the acting to Billotti.

Gigante loved nothing more than having a weak Gambino admin so he could pick up rackst's





I think you are right about the divisions in their family, but not about others killing Castellano. That was Gotti all the way, and if he had not led it the others would have never done it.
Posted By: dixiemafia

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/23/18 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by jace
I think you are right about the divisions in their family, but not about others killing Castellano. That was Gotti all the way, and if he had not led it the others would have never done it.


Agreed. I don't see it either. Now maybe if he went away and Bilotti came acting or true boss then I could have seen it but that's the only way.
Posted By: BensonHURST

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/24/18 02:27 AM

That's what I meant

The divide was because Dellacroce deserved to be boss

Now imagine if Billotti was now acting boss after Castallano goes away on the commission case
???

I think that would have been the straw
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/24/18 02:57 AM

Did Dellacroce really even want to be boss? He had. a long career without major trouble, was near end of his life, and had a lot of power without the added heat of the boss spot. I wonder if Gotti wanted Dellacroce to be boss way more than Dellacroce wanted the position.
Posted By: night_timer

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/29/18 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Then again we're talking about the same moron who within 12 months of becoming boss had gifted the Feds the entire structure and administration of the family because of his insecurity and need for everyone to kowtow to him.


Are we talking about Big Paul or John Gotti? It kinda applies to both of them, it seems.

I agree that Paulie stayed away from the Delllacroce funeral to remain low-key. John Gotti by comparison was an attention-seeker, not smart in the underworld. Sammy spoke about John loving the attention when they were in restaurants.... "Ooh, look it's the mob boss!"
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by jace
Did Dellacroce really even want to be boss? He had. a long career without major trouble, was near end of his life, and had a lot of power without the added heat of the boss spot. I wonder if Gotti wanted Dellacroce to be boss way more than Dellacroce wanted the position.

Actually Neil was getting indicted quite a bit in the 70's and the 80's. I know he was in jail for a few years in the 70's while Carlo was getting sick and eventually died. I think that was part of the reason why carlo wanted paul in that position along with the fact that Paul was good at white collar rackets. Neil was a tough and well respected gangster no doubt about t but he wasn't the smartest gangster and did have a lot of heat from the feds. I agree Gotti wanted him to be boss mainly because it would raise his position and he would of taken over eventually. The same thing happened with the Fatico brothers. In fact Gotti was hoping the Fatico brothers went to jail in the 70's so he would become the official capo of the Bergin crew.
Posted By: kingoflittlenewyork

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 01:06 AM

Believe Carlo was caught on a wiretap or told an informant something along the lines of Neil was expendable, so obviously Carlo didn't hold him in high regard.
Posted By: Hollander

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 01:13 AM

Paul would always stick to the Sicilians, Neil and Gotti were Neapolitans.
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 01:39 AM

70's and 80's the heyday of LCN in NY? Am I reading that right? I would think the heyday would have to be pre Kefauver. 1930s to 1950s. Most law enforcement in the country didn't even believe there was a mafia up to that point, including the head of the FBI.
Posted By: Japseye1

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by British
Don't think getting a few bullets in the head was too smart!


hahaha I was just going to say that

John was going to do it regardless. I think that was another reason for it to be justified and maybe pushed him over the edge who really knows
Posted By: dixiemafia

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Believe Carlo was caught on a wiretap or told an informant something along the lines of Neil was expendable, so obviously Carlo didn't hold him in high regard.


If you ever run across that I would love to see it. Not saying you're lying or anything, it just sounds interesting and the Gambino's is not someone I follow that close other than reading Sammy's book which was probably full of bullshit I imagine.

Originally Posted by Japseye1
John was going to do it regardless. I think that was another reason for it to be justified and maybe pushed him over the edge who really knows


I agree, John would have found ANY excuse to clip Paul. He found any excuse he could use to justify the hit.
Posted By: hoodlum

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by dixiemafia
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Believe Carlo was caught on a wiretap or told an informant something along the lines of Neil was expendable, so obviously Carlo didn't hold him in high regard.


If you ever run across that I would love to see it. Not saying you're lying or anything, it just sounds interesting and the Gambino's is not someone I follow that close other than reading Sammy's book which was probably full of bullshit I imagine.

Originally Posted by Japseye1
John was going to do it regardless. I think that was another reason for it to be justified and maybe pushed him over the edge who really knows


I agree, John would have found ANY excuse to clip Paul. He found any excuse he could use to justify the hit.

Carlo never was caught on any tape , speaking or otherwise..that man was too shrwed.... after 27 yrs. of mob info ,& friends in the biz & inteI...I never heard that man speak....Dixie,,what is this thing of SC u speak of...I'm not 2 savvy w/ computers..u say @ the top of the forum...I don't c it
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 08:47 PM

You can say a lot of things about Paul he was greedy and he wasnt a tough guy. HOWEVER he was a smart guy and tried to stay "in the shadows" which was probably the smart thing to do as a boss. The main reason the FBI were granted a bug in his house was because of Angelo's big mouth and the drug dealing from the bergin crew. I dont think it mattered that he didnt attend Neil's funeral because gotti and angelo had already started to put things in motion in september of 85
Posted By: hoodlum

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 09:48 PM

Agreed , that is a given .Paul was a smart man..abeit also dumb.. in being conned into a lure such as he had,,& also making Tommy B \ilotti his # 2 ...that was not 2 smart...he should have double thought his moves...maybe made Tommy Gambino his underboss & all the dominoes would have fallen in place.
Posted By: kingoflittlenewyork

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by hoodlum
Originally Posted by dixiemafia
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Believe Carlo was caught on a wiretap or told an informant something along the lines of Neil was expendable, so obviously Carlo didn't hold him in high regard.


If you ever run across that I would love to see it. Not saying you're lying or anything, it just sounds interesting and the Gambino's is not someone I follow that close other than reading Sammy's book which was probably full of bullshit I imagine.

Originally Posted by Japseye1
John was going to do it regardless. I think that was another reason for it to be justified and maybe pushed him over the edge who really knows


I agree, John would have found ANY excuse to clip Paul. He found any excuse he could use to justify the hit.

Carlo never was caught on any tape , speaking or otherwise..that man was too shrwed.... after 27 yrs. of mob info ,& friends in the biz & inteI...I never heard that man speak....Dixie,,what is this thing of SC u speak of...I'm not 2 savvy w/ computers..u say @ the top of the forum...I don't c it

It must have been an informant thenor I could just be wrong considering its coming off the top of my head. But I seem to remember reading it somewhere. I will try to find it when I get home. SC is a mod on this forum.
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by hoodlum
Agreed , that is a given .Paul was a smart man..abeit also dumb.. in being conned into a lure such as he had,,& also making Tommy B \ilotti his # 2 ...that was not 2 smart...he should have double thought his moves...maybe made Tommy Gambino his underboss & all the dominoes would have fallen in place.

Well i agree about Bilotti. They were an odd couple and polar opposites so its weird that he was Pauls right hand man. Obviously Paul wanted some muscle around him all the time but giving him such a high position wasnt too smart. Im not trying to say Paul was a great boss BUT i think Carlo wanted someone who would take the family more into white collar crimes and wouldnt be flashy. Neil was well respected but he was at the core a street thug and was constantly under indictment.
Posted By: Michael_Giovanni

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by hoodlum

Carlo never was caught on any tape , speaking or otherwise..that man was too shrwed.... after 27 yrs. of mob info ,& friends in the biz & inteI...I never heard that man speak....Dixie,,what is this thing of SC u speak of...I'm not 2 savvy w/ computers..u say @ the top of the forum...I don't c it


This has nothing to do with Gambino on tape talking about Dellacroce but here is an excerpt from the following link that says Gambino and his wife were caught on tape in Florida while on vacation.

http://bitterqueen.typepad.com/frie...-files-boss-of-bosses-carlo-gambino.html

"The FBI planted a bug in the long-married couple's hotel room during their March 1962 vacation to Miami, FL where they stayed at the Golden Gate, and Carlo gloated about his days at the track and Catherine complained about the Jews. Apparently Mrs. Gambino had an anti-Semitic streak: "She also stated that there were too many Jews there and she says she feels these Jews drink too much. She stated that she feels she is better than they are." As the wife of a bootlegger Mrs. Gambino apparently missed the irony in complaining about "these Jews" who "drink too much" but, of course, self-delusion is the first refuge of a mob wife.

The marriage sounded thoroughly loveless with endless bickering based on the FBI eavesdropping of the Gambino hotel room. Carlo on one occasion called Catherine a "shrew" with "a sharp tongue," and on another occasion cursed at her and "then told his wife that she talked too much and if she did not shut up, he would cut her tongue off."

Nice guy this Don Carlo lol

There are a lot of FBI reports about Gambino linked in that article as well.
Posted By: hoodlum

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 10:32 PM

This is very true...Bilotti was a mook at the very least..a gorilla knuckle dragger....my autistic 8 yr. old grandson has more sense than him...Carlo did in fact want a more intelligent pilot @ the helm & Big Paulie could have been the man..but his manerrisms ,(banging his maid?)...no respect 4 his wife??? ....shot his respect down the fuckin' chute' in front of his cohorts as well as his inner family...an asshole 2 say the least 4 a 64 yr old.man.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 10:54 PM

What is it with rich, powerful men banging their homely looking maids when they've already got the good stuff?

Castellano, Schwarzenegger..
Posted By: Japseye1

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/30/18 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by hoodlum
making Tommy B \ilotti his # 2 ...that was not 2 smart...he should have double thought his moves...maybe made Tommy Gambino his underboss & all the dominoes would have fallen in place.


I never understood why he made Tommy his underboss... well I do but it was the dumbest move he could make. Did he think he could dictate and hope people would just roll over?

I remember the Sammy interview and Paul praised the cops in a meeting saying "you know who the real tough guys are, the cops, they go on domestic and disturbance calls, they never know what they are going to run into" and then DeMeo said "well if he likes the cops so much maybe he should tell them do the hits"

I believe people tolerated him because obviously he was the boss but also out of respect for Carlo
Posted By: night_timer

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/31/18 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by jace
Did Dellacroce really even want to be boss? He had. a long career without major trouble, was near end of his life, and had a lot of power without the added heat of the boss spot. I wonder if Gotti wanted Dellacroce to be boss way more than Dellacroce wanted the position.


That's a good point. Gotti was pissed that Neil was snubbed for the top spot, but Dellacroce didn't seem to mind. He accepted the decision and respected the hierarchy of the Mob.
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/31/18 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by night_timer
Originally Posted by jace
Did Dellacroce really even want to be boss? He had. a long career without major trouble, was near end of his life, and had a lot of power without the added heat of the boss spot. I wonder if Gotti wanted Dellacroce to be boss way more than Dellacroce wanted the position.


That's a good point. Gotti was pissed that Neil was snubbed for the top spot, but Dellacroce didn't seem to mind. He accepted the decision and respected the hierarchy of the Mob.


On a radio show today Howie Carr said regarding Paul Manafort taking the position as Trumps campaign advisor: " It's like the Gambino family, Gotti got the boss because everyone else was smart enough to know not to take it."
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/31/18 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by night_timer
Originally Posted by jace
Did Dellacroce really even want to be boss? He had. a long career without major trouble, was near end of his life, and had a lot of power without the added heat of the boss spot. I wonder if Gotti wanted Dellacroce to be boss way more than Dellacroce wanted the position.


That's a good point. Gotti was pissed that Neil was snubbed for the top spot, but Dellacroce didn't seem to mind. He accepted the decision and respected the hierarchy of the Mob.


On a radio show today Howie Carr said regarding Paul Manafort taking the position as Trumps campaign advisor: " It's like the Gambino family, Gotti got the boss because everyone else was smart enough to know not to take it."

Yeah i think thats right. Frank Decicco let gotti be boss for that very reason IMO
Posted By: pmac

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/31/18 10:28 PM

i take anything sammy the bull says with a grain of salt he painted big paul like a dumb ass pansy. i think the guy with the blog did a interview with mike scars and he told about how paul was ruthless and a sart biz guy. he just got caught slipping. maybe he went to the wake and met with all the old timers he wouldnt have gotten hit a week later but will never know
Posted By: pmac

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 07/31/18 10:29 PM

might have stopped the whole plot.
Posted By: Japseye1

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/01/18 12:19 AM

The only way the hit would of got stopped was if Paul appointed Gotti underboss or consigliere which never happened, probably not even considered lol
Posted By: kingoflittlenewyork

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/01/18 12:20 AM

Showing up for the funeral still doesn't change the fact that Gotti, ange, and the whole crew felt like Paul was gonna whack them imo
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/01/18 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Showing up for the funeral still doesn't change the fact that Gotti, ange, and the whole crew felt like Paul was gonna whack them imo



That is the main and maybe only reason for Gotti killing Castellano. If not for wanting to protect Ruggerio, Gotti may have been content to stay a captain.
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/01/18 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Showing up for the funeral still doesn't change the fact that Gotti, ange, and the whole crew felt like Paul was gonna whack them imo



That is the main and maybe only reason for Gotti killing Castellano. If not for wanting to protect Ruggerio, Gotti may have been content to stay a captain.

i think gotti always wanted to be the boss or he may have been placated if he was named underboss. Supposedly Paul had floated around the idea if he went to jail of a three man ruling panel consisting of gotti tommy gambini and bilotti but john hated that idea
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/01/18 01:07 AM

JCrusher:

"i think gotti always wanted to be the boss or he may have been placated if he was named underboss. Supposedly Paul had floated around the idea if he went to jail of a three man ruling panel consisting of gotti tommy gambini and bilotti but john hated that idea"



I think Gotti was not big on taking orders, if that's what you mean.
Posted By: blueracing347

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/01/18 08:20 AM

Where did this three man panel originate from? Why would he appoint Gotti of all people? Bilotti and the nephew can be trusted by Big Paul. Not Gotti.
Posted By: sbhc

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/01/18 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by mackinblack007
Gotti skipped big Paul's lol, Paul was put out of his misery , he had numerous pianos over his head .

Agreed, he only had about another year left on the streets anyway.

He was going to prison for life on the Commission Trial.

Death is a better option than going to prison in your 70s.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/01/18 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by sbhc
Originally Posted by mackinblack007
Gotti skipped big Paul's lol, Paul was put out of his misery , he had numerous pianos over his head .

Agreed, he only had about another year left on the streets anyway.

He was going to prison for life on the Commission Trial.

Death is a better option than going to prison in your 70s.


These guys get excellent healthcare in prison. Better than what they would get on the outside. Ever wonder why guys like Persico, Scarfo, Amuso and Manna can reach their late-eighties and early-nineties?

They get more nutrition in their meals than kids in high school, too; probably get more outdoor exercise than they would get on the outside.

If it wasn't for sex and family, prison wouldn't be all that bad, but in your fifties and sixties, when these guys go to prison, you probably aren't consumed by sex anymore anyways.
Posted By: kingoflittlenewyork

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/01/18 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted by sbhc
Originally Posted by mackinblack007
Gotti skipped big Paul's lol, Paul was put out of his misery , he had numerous pianos over his head .

Agreed, he only had about another year left on the streets anyway.

He was going to prison for life on the Commission Trial.

Death is a better option than going to prison in your 70s.


These guys get excellent healthcare in prison. Better than what they would get on the outside. Ever wonder why guys like Persico, Scarfo, Amuso and Manna can reach their late-eighties and early-nineties?

They get more nutrition in their meals than kids in high school, too; probably get more outdoor exercise than they would get on the outside.

If it wasn't for sex and family, prison wouldn't be all that bad, but in your fifties and sixties, when these guys go to prison, you probably aren't consumed by sex anymore anyways.


Lol how old is Whitey? 84? Already got a female guard in trouble and got caught choking his chicken!
Posted By: bronx

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/02/18 03:17 AM

Excellent health care, good food, ,,?
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/02/18 03:29 AM

No one in prison gets good health care or good food. The correction officers avoid the medic on duty in prison and go to the local hospital for treatment if hurt at work. Where does the myth of quality health care in prisons come from?
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/02/18 12:48 PM

According to Good magazine, an average prison meal includes one-half cup of vegetables, one serving of fruit, and 3–4 ounces of meat. An average school meal, on the hand, forces kids to choose either the vegetables or the fruit and gives them about half as much meat.

Whether you’re eating in a prison or a school, the calorie count will be about the same. But the nutritional value is wildly different. Prisons will make sure you’re getting your four food groups, while schools tend to just pad all those calories with starches and carbohydrates.

https://www.thedailymeal.com/prison-food-better-school-food

Prisons are morally obligated to take care of the elderly. In nursing homes, elderly patients’ long-term illnesses are often ignored, but prisons are legally required to treat elderly patients for free. If an elderly person in prison has cancer, the doctors have no choice but to give him the best possible care, even if they have to shackle him to a hospital bed to do it.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/5912064/if-you-are-elderly-and-poor-prison-is-better-than-a-retirement-home

Prisons in the US usually pay doctors better than hospitals outside of prison, often resulting in better care. And in prison, the doctors actually have to help the patients, even if they don’t have money.

Though the US Constitution doesn’t guarantee citizens the right to health care, it does guarantee prisoners the right to health care. Under the Eighth Amendment, it is considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to deny a prisoner access to the medical, mental, and even dental care that they need, free of charge.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/california-inmates-get-better-health-care-than-regular-citizens
Posted By: bronx

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/02/18 01:58 PM

hello Moe..forget the "reports" after you do prison time come back and give your report. practical learning is a far better barometer..
Posted By: kingoflittlenewyork

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/02/18 02:36 PM

He does make a good point imo. Look at Sonny and Cigars. Sonny has spent decades in jail and he is still going strong. Cigar spent probably half of his life in jail and was still going strong when they finally killed him. I'm sure there are other examples where weaker minded individuals had their life cut short due to the mental stress.

People I've known came out of jail looking much better after spending 2 or 3 years inside but that most likely had more to do with them not having access to meth, actually sleeping more than a few hours a week and eating three times a day.

All said though I don't think people are ever going to be lining up to go to the can just because they are old and don't have healthcare.
Posted By: helenwheels

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/02/18 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by bronx
hello Moe..forget the "reports" after you do prison time come back and give your report. practical learning is a far better barometer..

Yep. The medical care is just bare bones, and the dental is nonexistent. The few people I know that were in federal prisons had to spend thousands on dental work when they were released.
Posted By: mackinblack007

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 02:59 AM

They also have hep c infection spreading like wild fire , cancer causing water supplies , and the drs give people mental health meds they dont need to make them zombies.
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 05:14 AM

I'll wager no one has ever heard of an inmate saying he misses prison food.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 03:45 PM

Well it isn't supposed to be the Boy Scouts, but it isn't a gulag either.

There has to be some kind of deterrent that makes people not want to recidivate.

There are all kinds of opportunities for people to upscale in prison, if they want to; books, educational programs..

And @helenwheels, if the people you know were in prison for drugs/alcohol fused/related crimes then they probably weren't taking very good care of their teeth in the first place.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by jace
I'll wager no one has ever heard of an inmate saying he misses prison food.


People serving in the army eat shit, too, but you don't hear them complaining.
Posted By: helenwheels

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Well it isn't supposed to be the Boy Scouts, but it isn't a gulag either.

There has to be some kind of deterrent that makes people not want to recidivate.

There are all kinds of opportunities for people to upscale in prison, if they want to; books, educational programs..

And @helenwheels, if the people you know were in prison for drugs/alcohol fused/related crimes then they probably weren't taking very good care of their teeth in the first place.

Stock fraud. OC. The kind of men that took excellent care of themselves before and after jail.

And the prison I'm speakng of was Ft Dix, which as I understand isn't terrible as prisons go, so if the care there is poor, then in many prisons it must be far worse.
Posted By: cookcounty

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted by jace
I'll wager no one has ever heard of an inmate saying he misses prison food.


People serving in the army eat shit, too, but you don't hear them complaining.



Well people in the army do go and die for a country that doesn't give half of a fuck about them. They gave my guy 12k for two years of service during the 2nd iraq war
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 07:14 PM

My cousin was in the California prison system for a couple of years, and will probably have to get his leg amputated from diabetic complications he wasn't even diagnosed with until he got out. Doctors in prison check your blood pressure and your temperature, and send you back to the yard. You think Kaiser is stingy with the blood work and x rays...
Posted By: bronx

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 09:40 PM

Wheels, Moe dont get it, he is a good poster ,but in this area he has no clue, you get an aspirin and told see you later, you see a p.a. until you are really sick then a doc. also Moe if you dont have a hook, you bunk with guys with aids ,hep c all types of shit, sure guys live long ,just good genetics, and a very strong mind. the food usually is expired military surplus ..best thing is commissary you live off the sheet.then cook out of plastic and microwave..do that for years ,good chance for cancer.. get a toothache? infection? good luck.. prison food also is not a deterrent to keep you from going back after release.. a criminal is a criminal..
Posted By: helenwheels

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 10:10 PM

Gotcha Bronx.

Not to self, stay out of prison. I have good teeth and can only eat so much canned tuna before getting mercury poisoning wink
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/03/18 10:50 PM

No hard feelings, Bronx. Difference of opinion is all it is.
Posted By: bronx

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 12:08 AM

for sure Moe, respectfully , hey Wheels what up, how is bklyn? been on 18th lately
Posted By: helenwheels

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 12:35 AM

Hey Bronx....I'm in about once every week or two. Stopped on 18th about a month ago for Chinese at Silver Star. That place hasn't changed a bit smile
Posted By: bronx

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 01:18 AM

next time back..a creamalatta..been a very long time..lol. you in NJ?
Posted By: DuesPaid

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 02:14 AM

Watching Live PD and they stopped a couple who had a Penis Pump on them, it reminded me of Big Paul.
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted by jace
I'll wager no one has ever heard of an inmate saying he misses prison food.


People serving in the army eat shit, too, but you don't hear them complaining.


You have no clue what you are talking about, but keep talking anyway. You go out of your way to push crazed morality values that seem immoral on others. The army serves better food than inmates get, as it should be. In the army you eat off base, or get more portions at some bases. You seem to be on a mission to save us from becoming criminals, when none of us have it in mind. You want people to get angry at mobsters like you are, for God knows what reasons
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 03:00 AM

Many inmates say they have to eat Kosher to avoid prison food. They get meals that are packaged outside, avoiding the pitfalls of prison food. It is said to be bland and often too salty, but they eat it rather than eat the prison food. It's a more common practice in city jails.
Posted By: bronx

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 03:40 AM

that is called "common fare" you have to be a jew or muslim to get it.. some guys say they converted to get the meal, but 99% of the time you do not get approved. lol
Posted By: night_timer

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Well it isn't supposed to be the Boy Scouts, but it isn't a gulag either.

There has to be some kind of deterrent that makes people not want to recidivate.

There are all kinds of opportunities for people to upscale in prison, if they want to; books, educational programs..

And @helenwheels, if the people you know were in prison for drugs/alcohol fused/related crimes then they probably weren't taking very good care of their teeth in the first place.


Notorious prison warden Joe Arpaio removed coffee from his prison's menu and when the inmates complained, Joe said "this isn't a resort. If you don't like it, don't come back".
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by bronx
that is called "common fare" you have to be a jew or muslim to get it.. some guys say they converted to get the meal, but 99% of the time you do not get approved. lol



I never heard the term, but thanks. I think that inmates have to declare it when they enter, if they try to do it after they are in it is tougher or impossible.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted by jace
I'll wager no one has ever heard of an inmate saying he misses prison food.


People serving in the army eat shit, too, but you don't hear them complaining.


You have no clue what you are talking about, but keep talking anyway. You go out of your way to push crazed morality values that seem immoral on others. The army serves better food than inmates get, as it should be. In the army you eat off base, or get more portions at some bases. You seem to be on a mission to save us from becoming criminals, when none of us have it in mind. You want people to get angry at mobsters like you are, for God knows what reasons


Pretty much every one of your posts is pro-mob propaganda defending mobsters and criticizing feds/police/government and yet you're calling out my motives for posting?
Posted By: OakAsFan

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/04/18 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by night_timer
Notorious prison warden Joe Arpaio removed coffee from his prison's menu and when the inmates complained, Joe said "this isn't a resort. If you don't like it, don't come back".


Former prison warden, convicted felon Joe Arpaio. Fixed it.
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/05/18 01:33 AM



People serving in the army eat shit, too, but you don't hear them complaining.
[/quote]

You have no clue what you are talking about, but keep talking anyway. You go out of your way to push crazed morality values that seem immoral on others. The army serves better food than inmates get, as it should be. In the army you eat off base, or get more portions at some bases. You seem to be on a mission to save us from becoming criminals, when none of us have it in mind. You want people to get angry at mobsters like you are, for God knows what reasons[/quote]

Pretty much every one of your posts is pro-mob propaganda defending mobsters and criticizing feds/police/government and yet you're calling out my motives for posting?

Ridiculous, I have never been pro or anti, just going for the truth in these conversations. For you to even think I am pro mob shows you can't read without a bias. Case closed.
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/06/18 02:00 AM

We can expect to see a story in the news soon about a man trying to break into a prison. His reason will be he wanted the great food and luxurious treatment. It will be Moe Tilden. lol
Posted By: Quiet_Doms

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/16/18 04:53 AM

I think John rushed the hit. He knew once Mr. Neil went, him and Fat Ange were fair game. Had he waited until sentencing the transition might have been smoother. Popping Thomas and Bilotti would’ve veen accepted better.
Posted By: Jimmy_Two_Times

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/17/18 03:17 PM

I can understand why he didn't go, but as a boss, I think showing up is what you do to instill confidence and respect in your men. Of course, I wonder if Chin would have gone to the funeral of his underboss?
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/17/18 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Two_Times
I can understand why he didn't go, but as a boss, I think showing up is what you do to instill confidence and respect in your men. Of course, I wonder if Chin would have gone to the funeral of his underboss?



I think If Chin went to his underboss's funeral he'd look bad showing up doing his crazy act. It might also be seen as disrespectful carrying on like hat at a funeral. I think Castelllano was smart to avoid the funeral. Just my opinion.
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/17/18 04:47 PM

[quote=Jimmy_Two_Times]I can understand why he didn't go, but as a boss, I think showing up is what you do to instill confidence and respect in your men. Of course, I wonder if Chin would have gone to the funeral of his underboss?[

/quote] Honestly it didnt matter if he went or not the plan was already being discussed by that point. Also lets be honest without sammy and frankie coming on board the hit probably never happens
Posted By: bronx

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/18/18 04:59 AM

JC chin went to no wakes or weddings..if someone has info ,share it
Posted By: Quiet_Doms

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/18/18 08:31 AM

Gotti went on a campaign spreading treason. Yeah Paul was a greedy fuck but Carlo left him in charge on his deathbed for a reason! He saw that times were changing.The blue collar rackets were coming to an end. I think the plan was to someday go semi-legitimate. Stealing is stealing! I just don’t think anyone predicted how stingy Castellano would be.


An Johnny Boy was no better. Here’s a guy who doesn’t mind spreading the money around but craves the spotlight. Although Sammy is a rat fuck... he did have it dead on about moving in the shadows. He recommended that he stay in Brooklyn, John in Queens, Joe Butch in Little Italy and Frankie Lo in the Bronx. Just think he may have had a ten year run before the Feds had an ironclad case.
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/18/18 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Quiet_Doms
Gotti went on a campaign spreading treason. Yeah Paul was a greedy fuck but Carlo left him in charge on his deathbed for a reason! He saw that times were changing.The blue collar rackets were coming to an end. I think the plan was to someday go semi-legitimate. Stealing is stealing! I just don’t think anyone predicted how stingy Castellano would be.


An Johnny Boy was no better. Here’s a guy who doesn’t mind spreading the money around but craves the spotlight. Although Sammy is a rat fuck... he did have it dead on about moving in the shadows. He recommended that he stay in Brooklyn, John in Queens, Joe Butch in Little Italy and Frankie Lo in the Bronx. Just think he may have had a ten year run before the Feds had an ironclad case.

Agree with pretty much everything you sai. Good Post
Posted By: jace

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/18/18 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Quiet_Doms
Gotti went on a campaign spreading treason. Yeah Paul was a greedy fuck but Carlo left him in charge on his deathbed for a reason! He saw that times were changing.The blue collar rackets were coming to an end. I think the plan was to someday go semi-legitimate. Stealing is stealing! I just don’t think anyone predicted how stingy Castellano would be.


An Johnny Boy was no better. Here’s a guy who doesn’t mind spreading the money around but craves the spotlight. Although Sammy is a rat fuck... he did have it dead on about moving in the shadows. He recommended that he stay in Brooklyn, John in Queens, Joe Butch in Little Italy and Frankie Lo in the Bronx. Just think he may have had a ten year run before the Feds had an ironclad case.



I thought It was Gravano spreading treason, he had his own partners killed by telling Gotti they were bad mouthing him behind his back. I don't think Gotti was smart enough to put all those captains together, and convince them to turn on Paul if they were loyal to Castelllano. Graavano says he was smart and knew more than John Gotti, if so how could Gotti convince him to go along? It doesn't seem to add up.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/18/18 05:00 PM

Castellano would've appreciated Gravano's entrepreneurialism when it came to stealing other people's rackets and making money hand over fist with construction etc.

Gravano didn't seem to have much in common with Gotti on the face of it. He was stoical and less flashy. I remember reading a story where they were having a conversation somewhere and they noticed a young guy staring at Gotti. Gravano asked Gotti if he wanted him to take care of it and Gotti said, "no, these are my public." or something to that effect. The man didn't have the tact to be the boss.

Gravano and De Cicco should've double crossed the double crosser and got in tight with Castellano instead. With guys like Castellano, Gallo, Failla and Armone ageing there was space for them to move up in the organization if everyone was just a bit less hasty and impulsive.

Gotti was the perfect boss for the 80's: all flash and no substance. Just like Madonna. Not Matthew Madonna, the other one.
Posted By: Zavattoni

Re: Was Big Paul smart to avoid the Dellacroce funeral - 08/18/18 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Two_Times
I can understand why he didn't go, but as a boss, I think showing up is what you do to instill confidence and respect in your men. Of course, I wonder if Chin would have gone to the funeral of his underboss?


Who is Sammy Black? There's virtually no information on him serving as Chin's underboss. Anyone know?
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