Massino's relationship with Colombos and Luccheses

What was his relationship like with Carmine Persico, Gaspipe and Vic Amuso during his tenure as boss before flipping? I know he didn't have a good relationship with the Chin, and his ties to Gotti deteriorated once Massino became boss.

From what I remember, Massino wanted to end joint ventures with the other families in order to minimize exposure to potential informants from other families. He even ended Bonanno family involvement in the construction unions.

What ever relationship he had with other bosses, I don't think they talked much.

If I remember well in raab's 5 families its said that after 3 colombo war Massino wanted with the Luccheses to absorb what remained of the colombo family.

In a numbers sense, that wouldn't have been that bad of an idea, in that if the Lukes and the Bonannos would split the Colombos, the remaining four families would have the same amount of made men approximately..

I think the Colombo's - being the rats nest that they are - were like kryptonite to other families. And still are.

It's not one family cultivate rats ! The thing that's creates rats are obviously guys getting busted!

The more old lucrative rackets you have the better the family is . When a family is down weather it's due to war or busts the remaining members are hungry for money, when you are hungry for money you make bad decisions and that leads to arrests and that leads to rats.

It has nothing to do with the Colombo's it has to do with there history!!!!

It takes time to rebuild and rebound from what they have been through, and it's been a while, take a look at what they have been through it's a wonder they are even viable .

That's true, their entire family has had more internal strife than even a single faction of the entire Genovese.

However, I must say that poor quality begets poor quality. It's true in business as well as crime syndicates (I guess). Having just visited the Microsoft store I found it empty, while the apple store across the way was packed (and this was in Seattle!).

Poor quality members gravitate towards the Colombo's and Bonanno's rather than, say, the Genovese. Rarely do we hear of Genovese members invading a home and tying up elderly people. Colombo/Bonanno tend to take more risks, and engage in violence unnecessarily, and ultimately, rat out.

(Also, I think it has a lot to do with Brooklyn. Pizza had this same theory, and I know it's controversial)

The real ruin of the colombos are the the persico family,if Orena should won the war the family would be in better shape.

Hard to say how the Orena's would have turned out , the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence .

The two families have reconciled and the Orena's are mingling and using the Persico's spoiles together.

Orena caused the war and is responsible for the demise of the Colombo family as a result.

Only Orena's sons are in with the Persico's. The old man will always be in the dog box for his betrayal.

The Snake get 150 y and wanted to rule from prison,if he really wanted the best for the family he would stepped down and made Orena boss.

True, but still doesn't excuse Orena's betrayal.

Kinda think anthony spero handled all relations with the other bk families. Orena order that guy oceras murder on long island over stupid shit getting caught with loan shark records. Bullshit reason to die think gotti eggd him on to. That did him n not persico.

True . Gotti was out to take other families and was using Orena as a puppet. He needed Persico out of the way even spreading rumors and kid shit .

Fucking guys were falling for Gotti and a few families were close to being swallowed up by the Gambinos .

Ocera got hit for skimming money from the shylock operation.

Percico’s were hanging by a thread, it should have been orena and cutolo but it could have been anyone if it was not for Scarpa not being found out sooner as a Rat or being whacked or death from aids sooner. The

Money can be paid back. I read in deal with the devil . Ocera was rich owned some big restaurant/caterers thing on long island and had some type of beef with someone close to john sr. That murder came from orena.

Al darco had a sitdown with spero over that guy frank lagano who was killed in new jersey. He was a huge bookie back then. He must have been a vario guy.

Yeah money can be paid back but the thing is, if your skimming from the mob you don't get the chance to pay it back, they just hit you. After that they gave two of Ocera's gambling clubs to the assassin.

Orena don't betrayl nobody: he was street boss and asked carmine sessa to poll the capos if was ok if he would become boss but Sessa said it to persico and so started the war. Orena wouldn't be the first acting or street boss to be appointed as official boss.

Orena was appointed acting boss by Carmine and it was made clear to everyone that this promotion was only until his son got out of prison. Orena has no business trying to poll the capo's and that wouldn't have worked anyway. The capo's can't decide on a new official boss, only the commission can do that.

In the early 1990s all the bosses was in jail and the commission can't decide anything otherwise the war wouldnt start. Orena asked Sessa and maybe the capos would prefered a boss on the streets that a boss in jail or a boss that gained the rules only because was the official boss son. In fact the orena faction would win without Scarpa sr and devecchio.

Most likely Furio and if there was anytime you could have overthrown a sitting boss it was around then .

Now you can piss in a bosses face and getaway with it , just like in life now look what has happened with quality of men in the last forty years compared to the last couple hundred. Pure de shit !!!!

The families can send whoever they want to commission meetings to represent them, it doesn't have to be the boss.
Both Orena and Sessa (on behalf of Persico) were reporting to the commission during the Colombo war stating their case for the boss position, the commission chaired by Gigante continually delayed their decision hoping the Colombo's would cripple themselves enough so the other families can grab their rackets.

Then orena ok them to kill the guy jack leale or something like that he was a made guy and a funeral home guy. He made alot of bodys disappear. And oceras body was found. In the scarpa book they try to put it on scarpa but the orders came from orena. Im sure tons of the evidence used against vic was obtained in illegal ways by the feds and scarpa planting shit and giving made up hearsay.

Thomas Ocera sounded like a successful Colombo soldier. He was co-owner of a restaurant, owned interests in a refuse-carting business and gasoline business, had a loansharking operation partly financed by Pasquale Amato and two gambling clubs.
I guess he just got greedy and Orena found out probably through that book the Police seized that contained all the loans and vig owed.

he did something to piss off gotti this is 89 rite when gotti was telling oreana to take over the family carmines a rat. read it somewere. i didnt even know the guy was in on the gas racket so he was really rich. stealing i doubt it.

cam newton sucks. so over rated.

He wasn't in on the gas racket, he owned interests (shares) in a legitimate gasoline business.

Correct me if I'm not remembering it properly, but in Deal With The Devil did it imply that Orena wasn't actually trying to poll the capos or take over the family, but it was all a ruse by Scarpa and Sessa to stir up shit?

If I remember right, Orena made a ruling against Scarpa and Pate, which Sessa did not like. This caused the trio to gather a few other members of the family to cause the headaches for Orena. John Gotti tried to influence Orena to become boss, but Vic refused but still did a big favor for Gotti in killing Ocera. This all happened in the fall of 89'. Orena was loyal to Persico until Persico was in talks about doing a movie or book about his life, then Orena went to talk to the Aloi brothers, Salvatore Profaci, and Cutolo about it and then it was decided for Orena to poll the Capos.

On the Bonanno family, even while Joe Massino issued the family to not get involved with joint family venues, some of the soldiers still did such as Joe Sammartino Snr in New Jersey with both the Genovese and Lucchese families, and William Riviello in Connecticut with both the Gambino and Genovese crime families. Of course this lasted up to the late 1990's, but still shows that some soldiers still did business with the other families.

The Bannanos were always a screwed up Family..

Yeah they're fucked in the head but they know how to earn and they are certainly not brokesters.

According to Massino Gotti plotted against him around the time he became boss. Massino did not learn about the aborted plot until 2004, when Barney Bellomo told him about it.

surposely gotti was pissed he didnt approve massino boss. he didnt ok it him being a boss or they didnt ask him his approval. but the vote taken when phil dies summer july maybe august 1991 then sammy the bull flips in oct. i dont think he was planning anything after sammy flipped. he was sending messages to orena to be boss around the same time. 1991 was probaly the worst year for the nyc lcn. sammy and al darco flip and the colombo war starts. probaly