West coast commision

Last night was reading Leonardo testimony and saw the west coast commision mentioned again. He claimed it wasn't just Chicago.

This could be wrong.... but I kinda recall a chi , detroit and Cleveland meeting. Does anyone know what I'm remembering?

Which testimony is this?

In the "25 Years After Valachi" one he says:
"There is a separate commission in Chicago. Chicago has control of all of the Western families, including Detroit. The Chicago commission makes and enforces the rules for those families and settles"

He goes on to say it is equal to the NY commission and Tony Accardo is the head.

Oddly, he makes no mention of this commission in his testimony at the NY commission trial
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=x7Ku...rdo&f=false

At one point I thought Zerilli was on the commision?

That's right. I'm sure I've read he was at some point. Maybe the west coast commission only came into effect later on. Has anyone other than Lonardo ever mentioned it?

Iv heard it mentioned in few articles ...

What I'm surprised about is Fratiano never said anything about it....

Skimming through Fratianno's book, the best I could find was this:

"Roselli dropped listlessly into a chair. 'Have I told you they've reduced the commission to six bosses: Chicago and the five New York families? They've dropped the oldtimers, like Maggadino, Scalish, Zerilli and Bruno. Which means Chicago's got a lot more fucking power now'".

That was around 1975-1976.

Wasnt it just chicago telling all the other families out there the do's an dont's. Wasnt the chicago bosses caught on wire with the kansas city guys belittling that guy frank n milwaki. Then they all shit on the l.a. family. That was the west coast commission rite them 4 familys and i guess st louis. Nyc dealt with new orleans according to sam the plumber.

I think that after the Kefauver hearings and Appalachian the mob was really wary of having big national meetings unless it was absolutely necessary. So the commission for families West of the Mississippi was a way of resolving disputes involving the families in that region without having to call a big meeting with the National Commission. I am sure that if any issue arising out west grew big enough the National Commission would get involved. Two of the families that were supposedly on the Western Commission, Chicago and Detroit, were also on the National Commission, so if there was a dispute that originated out west that was big enough to effect the whole country, they could bring it to the National Commission.

Certain families had particularly close relationships that in a way superseded whatever commissions were in place. Cleveland, despite being in the Midwest, was always closer with the Genovese than Chicago. St. Louis was close to Detroit and answered to them, not Chicago. Also, the Lucchese family, not Chicago, represented the LA family, at least initially as Jack Dragna was a cousin of Thomas Lucchese. As far as New Orleans and to a lesser extent Tampa, from what I have read neither family was very interested in Commission politics and were pretty much left alone to do their own thing. Whether Detroit actually answered to Chicago or was thought of as an equal I think is a really interesting question.

I dont believe detroit was ever with the west coast commision.

Where did you hear about Dragna and lukes? I feel they answered to chicago... roselli was there, Fratiano went to Chicago to report. So that one.

St Louis disolved in what, the 50s? I always saw them as a loose street gang and some Detroit guys went out there.

So....

Would anyone think Chicago said anything about other fams okaying there mademembers?

In the early parts of Fratianno's book Dragna mentions that he is close to Luchese and reaches out to him a few times if I remember correctly.

Also, by the looks of it, the Dragnas were caught with Tommy Luchese's personal phone number.
http://www.nytimes.com/1952/11/22/archiv...ory-record.html

Mickey Cohen said that Lucchese and Dragna were relatives. Before going to LA Dragna did work with Gaetano Reina.

I got to read it again, but in the book SuperMob, it states that a lot of the people that made L.A. what it is, actually came from the west side of Chicago. Like a lot of the big movie guys and stuff.

I think this is where the deep Chicago connections come from, more so than the Italian mafia, it's more about the Jewish contingent.... I think..

I don't think L.A. ever answered to the Luchesses. In NY They made a big deal over Bonnano trying to send a crew there. I don't think the Luchesses were bigger in Cali than the Outfit/Geneovese. They basically split the race wire action. Chicago wholesale engaged in extortion of all the movie studios.

Plus there was the Mexico rackets. Luchesse in the 40s was importing opium from Mexico though,...

St Louis seemed close to the Partinico faction of Detroit. As well as KC and NO, Coppola had influence with these four families.....

I think your mistaken with west coast commission. It was west of the Mississippi or something. I forgot were i read basically it was the chicago bosses telling all the other small families like kansas Milwaukee maybe st louis and L.A. wat the program was. And i think everyone was fine with it cause the las vegas skim fed all them little families kc and Milwaukee and cleveland but i dont no if cleveland answerd to chicago cause theres plenty of tapes between fat tony from harlem and them but same time theres tapes of chicago guys in rhode island over the big union iforgot the name its head quarters is either in providence or chicago or back n forfh.

Doc Stacher, a Genovese associate who was really close with Zwillman, Catena, and Lansky, was a silent partner in Columbia Studios.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stacher

It was Arthur Coia and LIUNA, he stole the presidency from Chicago with the backing of the Genovese and New England:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1999-10/03/062r-100399-idx.html

http://www.laborers.org/coia_projo_7-25a-96.html

They sneaked in after one of the Foscos died, those families were normally friendly but business is business.

@JC

Yeah, the two families with a Jewish influence amongst the top ranks were basically Chicago and the Genovese. After the Feds declared war on the Outfit (the Outfit, particularly guys like Giancana and Marcello, who made an enemy of Bobby Kennedy got it REALLY bad...) the genovese kind of picked up the pieces...


@pmac


You are right, Cleveland to my knowledge had points in the Vegas skim, but their vote on the commission went through the Genovese.

I was always fascinated by the politics there.

The Jewish associates for the Outfit, the Genovese and Cleveland (Dalitz and company) are why they were in on so many big things so early on, a lot of people forget that the Jewish guys were really the first ones in on Hollywood and Las Vegas.

Damn, I forgot about Dalitz, great example there.

Another thing on Luchesse, powerful as he was, he wasn't boss until Gagliano died in 1951.


I don't think he would have had the authority to give Bugsy orders while he was out west at the behest of Luciano, Lansky and the Chicago guys. ( and really, even to these heavyweights, Bugsy was still virtually uncontrollable..) Remember this in the what, late thirties, early forties?

But there were Jewish connections there with Lepke, and other narcotics wholesalers. I just don't think it had anything to do with LA. Luchesse biggest union was the Garment Center right? And later the airport unions in NY?

The way I always understood it, the Luchesses were the second biggest in unions in NY after the Genovese, but these were LOCAL unions, not like the Teamsters, the national ones. Those were split between NY and Chicago....

Joe Zerilli was on the national commission, but after 1974 he told Joe Cerrito and Manny Figlia that New York dropped both him and Angelo Bruno. He answers to Chicago while Bruno answered to New York (Gambino family). In 1978, Chicago allowed Jackie of Detroit and Nick of Kansas City to sit in on meetings and represent some of the other families out west. By 1984, Chicago was thinking of allowing Frank from Milwaukee to sit in the meetings and Milwaukee owed Alan Glickman, and thus had a lot of control over Las Vegas, while not allowing Kansas City to sit in the discussions, due to they trusted and liked Nick, but didn't really think highly of Carl and Willie the Rat.

Great stuff all around guys....

This is a good one...

Where did you hear Zerilli Answers to Chicago? Because im not sure about that....

What I meant was the vote on the national commission. I worded that wrong. Chicago could not tell Detroit what to do and Detroit did not tell what Chicago What to do. It was a proximity vote. Angelo Bruno vote went to Gambino family, while Buffalo and Pittsburgh went to Genovese family. This is all before 1976. Where I heard that Joe Zerilli told those two about that? I heard it from my old Rabbi.

Sorry if this has been discussed, I can't find the answer if it has.

Can anyone explain why the original west coast bosses (at time of commission) and their families were recognized? Were there some type of gestures or maneuvers pulled by them that were appreciated by the boys back east, or were they just the best of a bad lot? If the latter, why were they recognized at all? I know Dragna was trusted more than than the black handers that preceded him, and that he was connected to Tommy Lucchese, but how about San Francisco and San Jose? The information regarding the formation of these families is scarce. The book written about SF a few years ago was awful. These bosses in SF and San Jose were Sicilian traditionalists who seemed to veer toward legitimizing themselves from the start. Why were they and their families recognized? What did the east coast bosses want or need from them?

How many West coast families were there? Was Dallas ever involved with any of this?

West coast families were San Francisco and San Jose, both now defunct, and Los Angeles, which only has a few remaining members who are either retired or answer to New York.

Dallas boss Joseph Civello was Carlos Marcello's guy (New Orleans). Dallas and Gavelston have a deep organized crime history, through Benny Binion and the Maceo family.

I started a thread on the Dallas family about a year ago where Giacomo and others provided great information.

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=923565

Thanks will be reading this!!

Westcoast families
San Francisco- Defunct
San Jose- Defunct since 1995, disbanded by Figlia
Los Angeles
San Diego- Defunct absorbed by Los Angeles
Tacoma- Defunct since 1940's

On Dallas connections to the bay area, the members that made this happened are Peter DeLuca who was made in Pittsburgh and transferred to Dallas in the 1920s, Salvatore LoBello who may had been an original member of the Bonanno family in New York before moving to Texas. Joe Civello was under LoBello and also a cousin to Frank DeSimone of Los Angeles. Frank Ianni who was close to the Sciortino brothers in California so he had connections to all three families in California. The Saterino brothers were close to the Ciancimino brothers and Nunzio Mannina of San Francisco. When tracing the origins of the early LCN and before, you will find a lot of family ties between crime families in different cities. In that sense, when someone says it is just one big family, they are not half wrong.

Thanks, Vacari.

Have any info on Francesco Lanza's (James's father), who was the first boss of SF? There's hardly anything on the web about him. The book written a few years ago just cobbled together some public records that didn't reveal much. He had to have been connected to someone back east for him and his family to be recognized in the early 30s.

How about Scioritino and Cerrito in San Jose?

I know Dragna in LA had Lucchesse. Roselli always seemed to be in his corner, too.

IDK, but Dragna and Reina were Corleonesi.

Both Jack and Tom Dragna worked in East Harlem under Charles Salvatore Streva, who was a cousin of theirs and was working for the old Morello family who was also related to the family by marriage. Lucchese was related to Reina, who in turn was also related to the Dragna's mother side to the Rizzotto's, through his brother Antonio Reina. I would not be surprised if Gaetano Gagliano and the Dragna's were also related. There is gaps and the Dragnas may possibly be related to the Bonventre family of Castellammare and Ditato family who had members in both the Genovese and Lucchese crime families.

Frank Lanza was connected to the Palermitani of New York City, which most members split into the Gambino and Profaci crime family. Vincenzo Mangano and Frank Scalise were early members and both would later join the Gambino family, with Frank being the boss for a short time, before Vincenzo officially become the boss of the family and Scalise becoming a Capo before he was bumped up to Underboss by Albert Anastasia. He may also be related to the Lanza of the Gambino crime family. The Genovese crime family represented S.F. on the commission from 1932 to 1936, Lanza was close to the Catania brothers, the LaPadura brothers, and the Terranova family in the Genovese. The boss position was still in dispute til 1932 until Malvese was killed. More than likely cause of the war in New York that spread across the county, Luciano and the Genovese crime family took it upon themselves to insure peace which makes a lot a sense in that regard.

The Sciortino Brothers were also under Charles Salvatore in East Harlem with the Dragna brothers. They too fled when Angelo Gagliano, cousin to Geatano Gagliano flipped. Vito and Tony settled in San Jose Goosetown with Tom Dragna for a while, which was San Jose's little Italy. Vito stayed, while the other brothers moved to S.F. and L.A. Vito's son Onofrio would become San Jose boss.

Joe Cerrito was made in the Profaci family after New Years day to end 1931. He was sponsored by Vincenzo Figlia who was also a made member of the Profaci family. He moved to San Jose in the early 1940s. His brother Salvatore would also be made into the Profaci family in 1952, sponsored by Salvatore Profaci brother Joe Profaci.

Thanks again, Vacari. Great information.

I recall seeing a couple of Genoveses on one of the SF charts. I also saw some LaRoccas, which I assume could be a Pittsburgh connection. Never knew San Jose had so many ties to early Luccheses. I know the Bonannos were active in San Jose. As you said earlier, they'll all connected by family in one form or another.

Don't forget that just because Frank Lanza had those connections, that it did not mean the guys under him did not have connections with other family. Lanza strongest supporters were the Aliotos of Milwaukee. The Genovese and LaRocca families had connections to Pittsburgh. The Sabellas had connections to Philly and Bonanno crime families. The Balistrieri family had connections to Kansas City, St. Louis, and Detroit. Infusino had connections to St. Louis, Cleveland and Profaci families. LaRusso had connections to New Jersey. The Maita family had powerful connections to Detroit, Buffalo, Bonanno and Profaci families. Trifiro had connections to Cleveland. Bottom line if the guys under Lanza felt he was not fit to be boss, they had the connections to remove him. I know I am forgetting others. When you look into the early members, you can see they formed connections. One of the big ones is when families immigrated to the U.S. one or two would go, then go back and return with their families. Also when they moved from city to city they pretty much took their whole family with them, but family members or a member might stay in the city they moved from. It is like how you see Hispanics, Latinos, and Asians do when they move here. In many ways they took care of their blood family and most of the time moved as one.

I'm reading The Big Nowhere by James Ellroy and Jack Dragna and Mickey Cohen are both characters in it.

James Ellroy is one of my favorite authors. If you like his books, you really should check Don Winslow out Moe..

Come to think of it, I probably already told you this, or it was someone else.. But whatever the case, his books are superb..

Raymond Chandler's Phillip Marlowe novels used fictional characters based on Bugsy and Cohen. Chandler was actually around at that time in LA, and always in contact with people who knew the underworld.

James Ellroy is entertaining. He uses a revisionist setting of LA in that era. Very pro-cop, anti-everyone else, especially show biz people but even everyday civilians as well. Ellroy's always thought of LA as being the land of naive idiots. While growing up there, his mother, who he proclaimed to have been an alcoholic and sexually promiscuous, was murdered, so I can understand where he gets the chip on his shoulder. He dissed Chandler when speaking at the recent Noir City festival in LA, and received some boos and hisses. He didn't care.

Thanks again. The last names tell the story. Seems all immigrant groups that migrated to California had a similar experience. The Irish had a lot of influence in California the early 20th century. I'm sure they built most of the Catholic churches and schools that Italians and later Latinos ended up populating. They were the only group that had the money and political influence to build them at that time.